Dr. Ace Goerig graduated from Case Western Reserve University Dental School in 1971 and was their distinguished alumnus in 2014. After graduating he entered the Army and retired a colonel in 1991. Dr. Goerig has been in private practice for 28 years in Olympia, Washington.
VIDEO - DUwHF #1174 - Ace Goerig
AUDIO - DUwHF #1174 - Ace Goerig
He has presented at every major national dental meeting and founded Endo Mastery, a coaching program for endodontists in 1996. Dr. Goerig’s new book entitled “The Dentists 2019 Guide to Creating Personal and Financial Freedom” was written to teach doctors and team members the secrets of becoming personally and financially free. He has 2 free web sites to help dentists and their teams how to become financially free. (DoctorAce.com and DebtFreeDentist.com). He and his wife, Nancy have 5 children and 13 grandchildren and were married in 1969.
Howard: It's just a huge honor for me today to be podcast interviewing Dr. Ace Goerig DDS MS. He's been an endodontist for 48 years, 20 of those in the Army. Ace thank you so much for coming on the show today how are you doing?
Ace: I'm doing great Howard I just appreciate your invitation thank you.
Howard: Well you know I not invite yet I mean God just read your LinkedIn bio, you have coached twenty, your an endodontist for 48 years you've coached 22 percent of all the endodontists in the United States with your endo mastery program just endomastery.com. You've written two books on Amazon one is for Dr. Aces financial freedom blueprint seven secrets of creating personal and financial freedom and then that was 20 months ago yeah and then you just came out with the dentist 2019 guide to creating personal and financial freedom but unfortunately today we're doing a podcast and old guys like you and me are on desktop and all that it's these Millennials these kids that are on these podcasts and they're just walked out of school two hundred and eighty nine thousand dollars in debt they're 25 years old and you're talking about creating personal and financial freedom. She's looking at it like are you out of your mind I'm buried up to my eyebrows with debt what advice would you give a 25 year old dental graduate two hundred eighty-nine thousand dollars in debt who then goes out and buys a practice for 750 now she's a million in debt and you're talking about creating personal and financial freedom when she's thinking about the only way she could get personal and financial freedom is to abandon the United States and fly to some other country and change her name and never pay off her student loan. S how does she do it starting at age 25 with all that student loan debt?
Ace: Well I wish them luck really I mean what you have once you figure out the system and it pretty much goes like this you have to understand that the reason you're going to be in debt for so long is because the interest rate you're paying on that debt is like you know seven to nine eight percent and that loan is costing you and every time you put in you pay twenty two hundred dollars a year a month for the loan twenty-five hundred goes to principal and basically twenty three thousand goes to interests you'll never see and so the key is to live like a student for the next five years and find the job that you can really be profitable in. Now initially you probably won't be able to own a practice because the banks aren't going to lend you money if you could on a practice like by a fairly inexpensive practice or I'd work for someone for a couple of years and I would find someone who actually knows how to be efficient in dentistry and the way I find that out I asked the local Dental Society a person that runs the dental society I'd talked to supply people I go to labs and ask who's the best dentist out there and if they were looking for an associate I'd sure work for them and I learned to be efficient over these next few years. I wouldn't buy a house and basically I'd live like a student for the next five years until your school debts paid off and because once that happens and basically in my book I describe step-by-step how to do all that sort of stuff and actually where to find the extra money.
Howard: Yeah it's called delayed gratification you live like no man for a decade and then you prosper like no man has for twenty thirty years do the master of profitability in endodontist office I mean my gosh one in every five endodontist says has listened to you or whatever what do you what strategies do you think increase a dental practice profitability?
Ace: Thats real simple the first thing you need to do is to be efficient at what you do and also learn how to schedule patients and for the new doctors out there that have not really done that I would listen to different people out there I mean I grabbed your book uncomplicated business grab my book it tells you different procedures that you can do to double your net profit. Some of those procedures just to learn how to do same-day service and some of the deal is to learn how to present dentistry better where in our case I would say learn how to teach your hygienist to present dentistry better so that you can do more cases profitable but I would learn from someone and one way I would recommend is to find a good coach if you have a practice you open the practice then I would find someone out there at coach and you've had quite a few coaches haven't you Howard?
Howard: In my office absolutely I had I'd sally mckenzie about an hour after I graduated I've had sandy Perdue I've had so many so many and I never had a single one where they left I thought well that was a waste of time I always learned something and whatever a dollar I am I got that dollar back that calendar year I mean it was just and it fires up the team and some of its held against you like you know I've had staff for twenty thirty years and there's I they're still telling me well that's not what Sally McKenzie said that's not what Sandy Perdue said that's not what am i all right but I'm but yeah I mean I mean I always tell people get your house in order and they always think they're gonna fix their ailing restaurant by adding some new menu item and say my god you're not even making money on a hamburger fry and a coke and McDonald's can and you got to add steak and eggs I mean it's just um they just they got to get their house in order they get they got to understand their business. What is it do you think they don't understand about business?
Ace: Well about you everything I mean like you said I had to learn how to use my QuickBooks and quicken I had to understand the numbers I had to understand what I teach is scheduling with endodontist and I would say the same thing is true with general dentists. I would find ways to bring in like said bring in someone that could set up a schedule for you maybe set up a bonus system with your team and that is really important if you don't want to do that if you feel you can't afford to do that then I would look in my community for the best dentist in the area and asked if he could if you could shadow them and they could mentor you because you know all great teachers there they love to teach just like the one that Pizza Hut right.
Howard: Absolutely dan carney Dan in Beverly Carney you could the guy was the richest guy in which town you could walk into his office and walk right in there me and Jim Bell you still time it was just amazing how I've always thought that successful people make a religion out of availability and they love talking about their art they you know they love they love relationships they love showing. Not to but let's focus on endodontics for a while because you've been doing this almost half a century how has the practice of the specialty of being an endodontist how has that changed in the last half-century?
Ace: Well you know I will sore your fingers good get right that's all we had was files, since then we've had you know apex locators a digital radiography Dipple titanium engine files. I mean if you really I mean I think shit but one of the first uses units in my office I got the first Gary card microscopes I have the CT scan 12 years ago I mean those what is what keep it keeps you excited in dentistry but you still have to learn the basics of endodontics and our practice for example if any general dentist wants to watch us work or we'll sit down we'll share with them any you know some of our supplies or whatever and usually we have Tulsa come in the reps given the equipment and but I want them to do the ones they can do in one appointment. I mean you should be able to do it that way you know I think all endodontics should be done in one appointment and and if you can learn to do that I think and talk to your endodontist she would help you through the bar she would help you through the process of becoming more efficient but the key is is if you don't like in them if you you'll feel frustrated to find the things that you love I mean if it's crown and bridge or implants if it's Invisalign find something that you're really loving and get really good at that I don't think you could be a master of it all you know and because then it really confuses your schedule.
Howard: How's old Gary Carney doing these days?
Ace: I think he's doing great I think he sold this stuff too Gentle Wave.
Howard: Dental wave?
Ace: Gentle Wave that's the new irrigation system.
Howard: and who owns Gentle Wave?
Ace: I just think it's a corporation.
Howard: So he sold it was tdo for endo what did that stand what are the tdo for endo what does that stand for?
Ace: I'm really not too sure cuz I don't I don't have tdo I have practice works.
Howard: Oh yeah tea do for that was his eye endo software program was that what that is
Ace: Yes yes yeah he was he like millenia you know true renaissance man for endodontics he has come up with so many great things.
Howard: Yeah but he's mostly only wanted to do it for endodontists though most all the classes and his software if you were a low-life scum-sucking general dentist you were not allowed is that why do you think that is because I never understood that because it doesn't sound right because according to the american association endodontists last year they did 22 million root canals the united states and 68% were performed by general dentists 5.7 million or 26 percent were performed by endodontists. So i always arguing gary i said well if that general dentist is doing three out of four and you really care about the people in america and the patients wouldn't you want to educate us dumb general dentist but he...
Ace: Said fifteen howard back in the 80s, late 80s i I gave I had hands-on workshop for general dentists at these the northern and the southern California I did it for five years and you know how hard has put a workshop on right for general dental but I thought general dentists for actually I guess over a six year period both northern and southern California I taught a lot of general dentist how to do root canals and I think they should do root canals but they should do the ones that they should feel comfortable doing and I do believe that if you're interested they should really talk to the local endodontist. I mean the ones that they're working with I mean you're gonna find the ones you really can do easily and the ones that are going to be more complicated our job is to help you figure out which is which and then make you really profitable doing that.
Howard: So you ever talk to Gary anymore?
Ace: No I haven't talked to Gary for a long time.
Howard: Huh yeah I that was one of my highlights of endodontics getting kicked out of his course with Mike DeTola because it was friended on us only so we just said okay we're endodontists and then we both got outed like after lunch and he actually found out and came and kicked us out and I'm just like oh my god this is so tribal. I never got you...
Ace: Yeah that's sad I wouldn't have kicked you out I would have taught you.
Howard: Not to mention we were learning the most since endodontics is having another practice management problem today because as people are buying microscopes from global and St. louis or zeiss and germany the one hour root canal were and endodontists you know works eight to five and does a molar every hour they can't really do a molar anymore an hour and they're taking an hour and a half if they're if they're aiming for quality and they want to check their work with a scope well if the root canal takes an hour and a half, then the cost of the root canal costs 50% more. Have you noticed an increase in time over the fifty years you've done it?
Ace: Well let me let me just tell you a couple of tricks there Howard. Number one I looked at over twenty percent of all endodontist reports and how many cases they do the average endodontist does three to four cases a day it's exhausting and the reason they're not as efficient as they should as just too much peddledontics and I think they're scheduling is it will the what I would do is work with their schedules and that's the same as general dentistry. I mean you do a lot of general dentists piddle out there and if they can learn from someone to do let's say if they want to do you know a good role a root canal or bicuspids anteriors they can do that very rapidly I would check with their local endodontist and have them help them. I'm sure there's courses out there. I'll tell you another great teacher of mine was oh he's the Santa Barbara oh there's a couple in Santa Barbara that are really good. Buchanan Steve Buchanan.
Howard: He's been on the show.
Ace: and he gives some great courses for general dentists.
Howard: Yeah, he's amazing.
Ace: and you know I was I was just young endodontist wasn't young but I was in the army and he did such beautiful work this is in the early eighties early mid 80s and he invited me to come to his house and I watched him all day and he showed me a couple tricks back then it was all hand files and he taught me about passive instrumentation. I remember inviting me to his house and we sat in a hot tub I always thought it was two bottles of wine and he said it was two bottles of scotch but whatever it did I really figured out the secret of doing some endo with hand files but that's what they need to do is find someone that they can really and share with them and show them what works for them when it's in the cases they should do he can be much more profitable doing that.
Howard: Yeah when I got out of school for the first you know I don't know five six seven years I had a permanent blister on my thumb and my finger from holding those files all the time and then I went to a who was the McSpadden condenser John McSpadden in Chattanooga and then he said he invented engine-driven simply because he was so huge he's like six foot six and so that was the start of engine-driven and then it went from nickel tight or stainless steel to nickel tight I mean it's just been an utterly an utter revolution where is it ah now you said the average endodontist does three to four cases a day. What are they collecting and netting a year on three to four cases a day?
Ace: Used to the average endodontist producers and collects it I mean they collect around 700,000 they take home around 300 350.
Howard: They collect 700,000 and they net 350.
Ace: 300 and 350
Howard: Well that's on you know that that's fantastic what do you think they could how do you think instead of doing three to four cases a day how do you think they could do one more case a day?
Ace: It's real simple change their schedule.
Howard: and what software would you recommend?
Ace: The problem with their schedule is that they have too many emergencies off to the side and then go to one case and then they come back to the other and they don't complete any cases and they're just their timings off.
Howard: So what software would you recommend they use would you recommend that they use Gary Car's TDO for endo?
Ace: You know for endodontists of courses even though people were talking to hard our don't really endodontist I'd really rather talk to your general dentist about endo how they can be more profitable in it if you if that's what you like to talk about look for endodontists, for example the majority of 15 percent have TDO out there and I would and I would say 70% have practice I mean PBS endo and then endo vision is about 5%.
Howard: but you mainly think it's a scheduling deal, they're seeing too many emergencies off the side and they're i completing anything?
Ace: Well basically they get in they've run behind they're not efficient at what they're doing I have people come to watch me work in my practice and usually they'll go back and increase the case or to a day just by watching and that's what I'm recommending for your dentist out there if they want to be better at endo go visit the endodontist and let them watch what they do, they will give me the tricks. I mean I just don't believe in competition myself I you know it is more of comradeship you know and that's out there for all of us Howard.
Ace: Right so your website debt-free dentist so if you're driving how do you not remember that debtfreedentist.com what are my homies gonna find on debtfreedentist.com and why did you create that website and what's all that about?
Ace: That website was created to help dentists understand how to get out of debt early, how to be much more profitable in their practice and we talked about that videos their audios their. How do you know what are the key things that they can be doing pretty much what I put in my book also is in debt free dentists and by the way it's free.
Howard: What is free?
Ace: I don't sell anything on that.
Ace: You know so and what they learn also on that is a step-by-step approach to you know how do you get out of debt as quickly as possible that's the main thing for that deal. Let me tell you a story Howard I had a 70 year old guy come in and I thought at that time he was pretty old but he looked like was 40 he'd been in practice for you know well I guess probably close to 50 years and I was doing a root canal I do root canals on all dentists and their family and all I actually knew free root canals on all team members but he came in and I said God you look great and he looked like he was in his 40s said what you do he says well when I first got out in the 50s I you know we all work five days a week there's tons of K no no fluoride or any of that stuff and so he said one of my friends says I could change my schedule and I could work four days a week and just do as much pieces and I yeah and we weren't big spenders and so you know I pretty much paid everything off within 10 years I was debt-free. Once I was dead free I went to three days a week I might took two weeks off than three weeks and eventually I took off you know ten twelve weeks a year and he practiced until he was 82 I did the last root canal on him when he was 92 and he looked great and he said and so when I heard that because I just started my practice that's when I decided to work three days a week pay off all debts and when you do that I mean dentistry can be incredible. I mean I have a schedule that I go in I love my patients every day I mean what the hell I mean how blessed are we you've been there I mean the relationships we have with these patients the relationships we have with our team it cannot get any better than this, so the idea of retiring and practice which means you know work three days a week. Hugh Bradford, you've had him on your program before another one I admire I mean he takes off all August and the only works three days a week. This is possible for everyone out there and the thing that holds them back is debt, figure it out if you just did one more root canal the day or you did one more crown a day you would have an extra $200,000 to pay off your debt how fast could you pay it off and then you're free and that's that's the message in the book they figured that out they've got it made.
Howard: but there's something inherently you know there's a natural selection you can't say dentists physicians and lawyers are just normal people because they got accepted into a post-grad program that's very hard and it seems to attract people who have big egos that live below above their means. I mean I look at their life they don't do anything not one area is normal they do they don't know camping on vacations they fly to Hawaii they don't have a three bedroom two bath house they have a 5,000 square foot home they can't drive a Toyota Camry it's got to be a Lexus or a Benz or a Beemer they can't they don't like I hate it, it just makes me want to throw up when I doctors would say well I don't do chain restaurants it's like well what are you a queen I mean you know what you're you're you have nothing on your resume I could fill up your resume on the back of the book of matches and yet you're too good for all the chain restaurants you can only go to and they're their wedding ring it's three carat instead of a quarter carat. I mean instead of having two kids they have three four five six. How would you get these people to live below their means I mean the work I'm in Phoenix and is smells like the crash is coming again cuz it's happened about every 10 years having me an 80 87 2000 2008 just smells but last time when Lehman Brothers crashed there about 85 dentists went under just in the valley and half of them were cosmetic dentists in Scottsdale and the other half were young dentist who just started the big old Taj Mahal debt-ridden thing and I mean I had dentists balling real tears in my front room and one of them had five cars and I thought no here's a gold mine we're just gonna sell these five cars he was leasing five cars it's like do you think you're Rod Stewart the Rolling Stone. How the hell do you come out of dental school and then and then he bought a house for like 1.6 million and now it was upside down in the mortgage and I mean it's like you became a dentist yet you act like you're the rolling stone. So how do you coach these people to let all the air out of their ego and live in a trailer?
Ace: Well actually those people are idiots and we know that okay so the thing is is that we don't reach everybody Howard, we do have a way of touching touching people and the reason when I first talked about that they're paying a thousand percent interest on their school loan that they think it's only seven point nine percent. I would hope that would wake them up and all that money is just going to the bank and if they paid if they just paid six thousand dollars instead of two thousand dollars and live like a student 300,000 we've paid off in five years and they have they do but wait they need a game plan that's why I wrote the book and also you know when we talk about the book or about investing there's you know no one should be into any investments until their debt is paid off because you can't get you get that's a hundred percent return your money guaranteed for most of that debt and so why would you ever be in investments if I had money in the market right now I thought and I had dead I pay off debt unless it was in a tax-deferred but you're absolutely right powered I do believe that most of their money should actually be in the money market accounts not that what do I know I'm not a dentist don't take me I mean i'm only a dentist I'm not an investor. Now here's another thing that I talking about on the book and most people to understand, they they go to a broker and they put them in mutual funds that take about 2 to 2 percent or 3 percent when you pay 2 percent in the mutual funds they will take 50% of what you what you brought home okay so why I ever do that learn how to go on swab stick with the S&P; 500 to three basis points or the total stock market but first number one get out of debt and also mention whole life policy is a is a good way to put money away safely and but once you're debt-free your practice is paid off your home is paid off you have some money maybe put away in retirement plan pretty much you have 60 or 70 percent of your money in a fixed asset that is going to you know continuous like a long-term bond then you could probably put ten or twenty percent of your money in the market but you're not there to make money in the market I'll just tell you that and in the book I talk about you know the best way and where to put your money into so did you understand what the market makes and things like that.
Howard: but I think the other thing is when you're going through school and you're borrowing other people's money and you don't feel it you don't stick your you know light-socket you're getting these student loans and you're going to schools and you don't have any money you go to the car lot they give you a brand new car and tell you five years of payment and they just get so used to using other people's money that what percent of endodontists do you think are still paying interest on other people's money when they're 50 years old as opposed to being debt free?
Ace: You know I think I mean and honest aren't much different than general dentists except they can afford to go into depth deeper that may be the problem but until you know the people I work with my goal is to get them out of debt and usually I can change their schedule around I can make them much more profitable if I could add another two hundred thousand which means one case a day or one crown a day if I was a general dentist I can have them depth three and five years and then everything you make the stress to have to go to work, I go to because I want to not because I have to I go because of the relationships that's why I go that's why you go.
Ace: You and I are debt free we're financially free we don't need this, the money I spend goes to you know the safe place downtown for battered women or the gospel mission for the street people. I mean that's where my money goes you know and I mean and I pay my team an extra $250 a month to debt reduction and I teach them that since I've done this 36 years ago I have four people completely out of debt I have a chief clinical system is thirty years old will be debt-free in three years. I mean that's what I write about in the book that's what Dr. Ace is about that's the other website I have for the team and I rather them just and then I mean what's on it...
Howard: What's the website for the team called?
Ace: Oh doctor ace I don't know how I came up with that but name but is doctorace.com spell it out.
Howard: Okay doctorace.com nice are you ready to regain your financial further Dr. ace very nice.
Ace: and I have free worksheets in there so they can do it step by step and that's another thing too is I get a team's very excited about bonuses because once they know that you know when the new you start paying off debt you're getting a hundred percent return here money do you understand that I know you understand it but do you think the people out there understand that?
Howard: No so explain it to them again.
Ace: Okay so for example you have a mortgage and you're it's $300,000 mortgage and well here's what I do know $225,000 mortgage that's more their house size they're being about four point five percent or five percent interest over 30 years okay. You look at the amortization chart a hundred thousand goes to principal I mean I'm sorry twelve out of the twelve hundred two hundred fifty dollars goes to principal a thousand goes to interest right, that is not a five percent alone right that's a four hundred percent loan and I ask people I said would you like to make four hundred percent return on your money and all you have to do is take another two hundred fifty dollars pay the next principal payment you eliminate a thousand dollars you'll never have to give the bank actually is thirteen hundred dollars because they had to make thirteen pay tax on it they have a thousand. When you understand that debt gives you a hundred, over a hundred percent return on your money that's where you're gonna focus all your debt you're gonna live like a student until your debt free and the rest of life I mean I love what your father said and you already quoted him right, if you were like say that again cuz it was a great quote from your father.
Howard: Yeah you work like no man for a decade and live like no man for the rest of your life.
Ace: and that is what this books about you figured out it covered carries people step-by-step and the websites are about that too.
Howard: and you know and some of it it makes me mad at I mean I know they should take responsibility but they are wild crazy Homo Sapien humans I love them I certainly wouldn't want to be born on earth the only human on earth that would be incredibly not fun. The federal government I mean they're the ones that have causes student loan crisis because they they went out there and they said you can't declare bankruptcy on student loans which is in the Constitution it says that we can declare bankruptcy because they that was part of the whole United States not having debtors prison and then by having these guaranteed student loans that no one can default on the universities all raised their prices and the same thing on the house and I'm looking at the data the average American moves their house every six to seven years and yet the average 30-year loan the first six to seven years interest only but when they came out with the MBA loan for the the SBA loan for businesses it's only twenty four years and I thought the best way to increase the wealth of Americans is knock off that stupid thirty-year mortgage. Isn't it basically a good rule of thumb that your twelve payments a year on a 30-year loan that if you just made one extra payment a thirteenth payment per year of principal only that the 30-year loan gets reduced to fifteen years.
Ace: Actually I think two twenty two years but that's not the issue the issues they can pay it off in seven years they can pay it off in five years as a dentist we have the ability to make an extra two hundred thousand just by doing one more large procedure a day I mean it's that simple Howard and if they could learn to be a learn the techniques of being efficient and get a good coach to help them through a process. A good coach could give you an extra two hundred thousand extra a year to your net and then that's magnified over ten years it's like two million dollars because you don't drop back once you have to coaching you know just get better but you're right if they would just focus on their debt and they would become free. Another thing that came out that kind of bothers me is this idea of student loan forgiveness I mean that's just another thing to keep these guys in debt forever I think you know and do you think they'll ever forgive some of those loans maybe in some of the places they go if they work for the in certain areas of the country where there's a need for dentists but in reality it's they should just learn how to pay off the debt this time and it's not that hard because we know how to make money.
Howard: Well it's also very hard for them because a lot of them married you know if you if you look at anthropology around the world women marry up men marry down I mean men are basically going on the market saying look I'm a dentist lawyer physician so then he gets some hottie that who just the trade is I never going to work and I'm gonna drive the Beemer and I'm gonna eat out and have my nails done and then that same crazy insane conservative dentist is telling me how the government should cut entitlements and all this stuff like dude you can't even get your own wife muffy to cut her monthly spending but oh the president supposed to do it for Al and with a third of a billion people. What percent of these dentists do you think can't have an honest conversation about spending time with their wife because that was the trade that got him married in the first place rich dentist marries hot girl.
Ace: Thats half of the dentist their men are female and by the way they have the same issue they have the same issue I work with female dentists that have husbands adjust you know they're the spenders they're the ones that take advantage it's the same thing out there but you're right but someone has to take charge and in how important is your freedom this is all about freedom. You knew when you paid off that last debt how did you feel and that's what I want these people to understand and I'm giving them a game plan to do that.
Howard: That was do you remember Janice Joplin that was my favorite quote from her song during those years freedom is when you have enough freedom is when you have nothing left to lose remember that?
Ace: Absolutely I love that.
Howard: Yeah she was amazing.
Ace: Her and Billy McGee.
Howard: Yeah just amazing but when I asked dentist and I say okay you're stressed you want burned out they want to get out I don't know if it's debt or staff it seems like staff just drives them crazy and you always talk on your websites about how to make your practice fun how do you how do you make your practice fun if you're stressed out of your mind by your staff? I mean they get on dental town and Facebook all day long saying oh my god I hate my hygienist and I know and she's asking me for a raise and my overheads going up and I'm taking PPOs and so how do you how do you coach this young kid to create a practice where the HR is fun like when I drive to work I mean I just mostly just can't wait to see my team I mean I've known most all of them for 10 20 years and that's so how do you how do you get that from being the greatest part the worst part of your practice part to the greatest part?
Ace: Hey you know we don't try you know we buy inspired people and we hire people that are motivated and if they're not motive they don't fit it and we let them go for their own good, you explain that beautifully. Let me just tell you if you remember the story about Warren Buffett who's my idol and he was interviewed and he said um what gives you a greatest joy in life he first said love you know good health you know I'm 88 years old I mean my god he said but the next thing is going to the office Berkshire Hathaway. You know that business is my canvas it is a large canvas and I have the brush and I can paint it any way I want it he says I only have people there that I like because I hired them. He's that if I was a politician I'd have to smile at a lot of people I'd like to hit he said but no I have my canvas I have the painting. They have not written their story their vision of what they really want they can have it any way they want it and the thing is this they just have to go ahead and write a story figure out what you want. You could go I mean I have a young dentist um who just bought a practice he from a lady that he was there for a year as an associate bought the practice I mean this guy's already made half his dad off he's increased the profitability of the practice for maybe 600,000 to a million dollars he says he goes to your website by the way and listens to the podcast he takes the continuing education that you provide and you teach. I mean get educated on this there are great teachers out there get a coach I mean apparently he's your coach I said he needs another coach you get rules to a different level if someone came in the practice because you can't I mean you can learn them as much as you can by going to podcasts and webinars and even meetings but until you have someone come in your office and evaluate exactly that ladies got to go or this is one area you're forgetting to do, you do this I mean I can double a person let in endodontics in a year.
Howard: and what about general dentists I mean are you when you're doing in office consulting is that only endodontists or do you do general practice too?
Ace: I only work with endodontists but there's some great ones out there I mean Bill Astrid I like Mike Abernathy somewhat management I mentioned a few of these people in here. I like Greg Stanley Whitehall management I they have some great courses and they have people to go into practices I think they do a great job.
Howard: I love Greg Stanley, he's right up the street here he's on the expensive Scottsdale he barely comes down here because he has to wear a gun but Linda Miles, Mike Abernathy you talk about.
Ace: Oh yeah well Linda miles just retired, gotta had loved her I mean you know she came into my practice and turned me around that's me that's how I became a practice management expert I just copied everything she taught me.
Howard: Yeah well it was just it's so obvious of because if you're a general dentist you've only seen your practice I mean I learned some of the most I learned just from my supply lady. I remember when the internet came out in 94 and people are like where you gonna buy your supplies online it's like dude supplies is four percent of my cost I don't want to lose my relationship with this lady from the outside world who sees several practices a day I live in my cave my little bat cave and she sees all these practices so when you talk to a consultant that's been in a hundred offices you barely know your office she's seen a hundred. It's like when you don't read books you only live your life but when you read the autobiography of someone you live their life too and that the people who taught me the most are all dead people who wrote amazing autobiographies but yeah Bill Blatchford, Doug Carlson all these people Sandy Pardue, Sally McKenzie they're just so many of them and again everybody that I know is collecting 2 to 4 million dollars a year if you say you don't ask them they've ever had a consultant you say how many have you had and lists them from the best to the worst and they just sit there and say man they I got my money back on all of them they all taught me something and then that and if you done saying that to the dentist I said so what are you going to do and he says I'm gonna do same day crowns and get a CEREC machine it's like okay whatever so let's so you also...
Ace: but they know there's one other person out there I think is really good is Alex Nottingham he does Allstar Dental and nice thing I like about him is very inexpensive but most of it he trains your team to have the right verbal skills and I actually come out with another program on how to present dentistry, these are the hardest things that you need to learn and it's a continuous training program he even as an MBA that I took also and I thought was really really good too.
Howard: He's a lawyer and has an MBA...
Ace: I would go to a white coat investor that's an excellent book it's by a physician you really appreciate being a dentist when you listen to that guy because he's a physician but he has a lot of great stuff about where to go and I mentioned in my book where to go to get a compare different student loans to get to pay them off to get a lower percentage rate. I mean I know guys now that used to have seven there to have like three percent student loans and that makes a significant difference in what you pay each month some and that's a simple thing to do. Another thing that I'd like to share with your team where to make money is just raise your fees due to you know maybe 2% every six months or 4% a year. That a 1% increase in your fees could be a million dollars in life your practice or even two million dollars over life over practice.
Howard: but they're all signing up for PPO's and the PPO is is setting the fee though.
Ace: Well yes but still raise your fees anyway even if you I mean there's a lot of these people take insurances but you have private pay patients also but you have to make a statement about I'm not just gonna stay where I'm at with my fees raise them anyway and whether the PPU bright them off is one thing but you know you have private pay patients also.
Howard: You've made some bold statements I've found on your website your LinkedIn page, how to increase their net profit five to twenty percent in a few minutes.
Ace: I just told you raise their fees you know but basically a fight but let's say if it's a five percent and their overhead seventy percent right you know basically that's the 15 improve cent increase in their net right there it's all net profit right.
Howard: So you also talked about two investments that will give them a 2x to 10x return guaranteed without risk or tax consequences.
Ace: One is paying off debt that's a thousand it could be a thousand percent return right that's ten times right and another thing is to get a coach I mean you had you know the deal is you said invest in yourself this is investing in yourself we are not trained how to be practice management people but we need to do it you took an MBA I mean I've taken other MBAs myself of courses online and things like that but that would be the second thing.
Howard: Do you recommend that dentists go back and get their MBA?
Ace: I think they could probably I mean I take Alex Nottingham's MBA course I mean that I mean it's online and it's not you could go back in I would spend the money on getting a good coach.
Howard: Yeah what I did when I bought my first laptop in 1998 when I got accepted to Arizona State University's MBA program I took notes, it was two classes a trimester six class a year 12 for two years I took all my notes and then I was done I ranted it out and it was it was all the notes about MBA just applying to my today's dental office in Phoenix and it was 30 hours so I called the 30 day Dental MBA it's free on YouTube this podcast yeah this podcast is called dentistry uncensored but I have another podcast called the doctor Farran's 30-day dental MBA and it's just 30 shows long but what's amazing is I still have about 1500 dentist a month download that on iTunes and they send me all these love letters but here's what the most common thing they say, they say you know when I saw it was made in 98 I thought well this one apply in 2009 but then they realized well geometry didn't change either either did calculus physics. I mean business people time of money but that 30-day MBA was every single note I took on a two-year MBA program leaving out everything that didn't apply like to nonprofits and government or ngso's and all these things like that but that's a but I I can't recommend the MBA enough because the MBA what I had the most fun with is there were 200 kids in the class and two or three were for management at Walmart or Intel or American Airlines and listening to all these people's problems in all these different industries and then you realize they all have the exact same problem the exact same and it doesn't matter what industry and it's people time and money and just understand that stuff and I...
Ace: Yeah but in dentistry we haven't made there Howard I mean dentistry is still a great way of profitability having the life that you want not beside that we serve mankind Anna and the money we make it can be incredible I mean if you just understand the systems and give someone to help you with the process you know it's really great. One more thing here Howard when I was mentioning I had a you know are you American you're familiar with America's best 401k?
Howard: Yes America's best 401k isn't that the one where who's the Tony Robbins is behind it?
Ace: Yeah Tony but also Tom Zgainer but here's the issue I've been with my people I coach I recommend that they least do the comparison because a few percent like I here's one I mean basically it's like 0.5 percent for America's nest and these other ones could be 2 or 3 or 4 percent okay and so I had one guy in the book in the story in the book he had 1.4 million he's in his 50s in his retirement plan put a hundred thousand in each year and if and they compared it if they both made seven percent return on their money what would the difference be. Well his plan was he was paying 1.7 three percent compared to 0.5 percent so the difference was 1.3 percent difference over a 20-year period if he puts a hundred thousand here he will if he doesn't switch he will lose 1.7 million dollars one point two three percent that is the power of it's only one percent people don't understand how they're being ripped off these things. So if they have a 401K America's best doesn't cost you anything.
Howard: Yeah can I tell you my nightmare story about Tony Robbins my gosh I was so excited I got to do the man I mean I bought his 30 now his personal power and listen to it with my four boys five times I told him how much I loved him so he came on the show he's episode 301 Tony Robbins got it and it was the only show where the video file corrupted. So when I don't it was fine but for everybody on YouTube they're just like they're emailing me okay it's a YouTube video but something's wrong I only see the first it's like God have all the people of all the people who could have been anyone and then I'm and then you talked about a Tom Zgainer is with America's best for one he's right here in Scottsdale Arizona so you recommend Tom Zgainer with CEO and Founder?
Ace: Basically he isn't he's basically the CEO of America's best 401k but at least if you have a 401k just compare and they'll show you if there's any different or if you got a good plan.
Howard: He was an episode he was episode 197 great man yeah great man Tom's Zgainer.
Howard: Corporate retirement plans with Tom's Zgainer. Yeah so I want to ask you a couple more questions you also talked about creating a private family bank for their investments what do you mean by that in here why do you say that?
Ace: Okay here we go so once you're out of debt all right then you know where you got put your money where you don't have to worry about the market the market can tank they can go up they go down we are not experts in the market I would rather put my money where I can get a guaranteed return of over four plus percent tax-free and take it out tax-free. Now this basically is a whole life a permanent whole life insurance but it's design a little differently okay and so it's designed this way when it has a rider to increased cash value very rapidly. So basically whatever you put in the first year at least half of that is in cash value you only pay less than 25 percent or basically the person that sells the policy takes a big cut in his commission so they can go into cash value. Now as this as this the value in the cash value grows you also have a death benefit but let's say you have about eight hundred thousand dollars in your cash value because you're putting this in and then never you never lose the money it's walked in plan okay and let's say you have seven hundred thousand in there and you want to borrow five hundred thousand but you can borrow it at a maximum rate of five percent of guaranteed rate of 5% even if inflation goes up and the banks are only going to give you eight percent you can get at five percent at the same time you've taken out the five hundred thousand the eight hundred thousand that you had in there still grows at four percent plus dividends another advantage of this type of insurance policy is that it is with a mutual insurance company which means they pay dividends compared to other insurances. So there's a lot of great things associated with this but it is a way of building wealth having death benefit and always access to money and you never worry about the market that's the big deal with this and it grows tax-deferred and you can take it out tax-free and then there's no government controlling it.
Howard: Well you just said government so you just walk into a Pandora's box I'm what do you think some of these young kids it's amazing their stress they're at a dental school but they're also stressed about a US government that's 21 trillion dollars in debt and just no matter what party you vote for they just add another trillion every year. Does that concern you someone who's fixated with getting out of debt but you live in a country that has you know almost 1/4 of the entire planets debt, what do you think of America's debt?
Ace: We live in the greatest country in the world I mean the things we can do and I just don't really I mean I can I can only do the things that I have control over Howard I can vote okay. Now the thing is I'll do whatever it can to help people that's why I'm doing this debt thing to help people get out of debt so they're not controlled by debt. I mean we are in a debt economy I mean that's how actually our economy works but for those people that are smart enough to figure it out I just talked to another young dentist he's been out of about eight years he's almost completely out of debt now and he's cut down to three days a week he does a lot of things that I do he just donated over a five-year period a hundred thousand dollars to create at YMCA in this small community he says I want to be able to share it and I can do this because I'm out of debt and they talked about eliminating the stress in your life. I mean the book tells you step-by-step how to do the snowball approaches like Dave Ramsey does and getting down anyone can be out of debt or you they just have to live like a student.
Howard: Are you a fan of Dave Ramsey
Ace: What's that, I like Dave Ramsey but there's a couple of things that I disagree with him I believe he believes in budgeting I believe in automation that means automatically 10 or 20 percent come out of my bank and I don't see it. I can guarantee you this Howard, you could take ten or twenty percent out of your money out of the to pay off debt each month and you're gonna be broke at the end the month just like you are now. I mean it doesn't matter you have to see it as a tax he believes in budgeting he believes in the 15-year mortgage I believe you could be paid off in the seven it's just numbers and in dentistry we make that kind of money and you know my paying off debt. Another thing he thinks you should be in the market and he believes you should pay brokers I don't believe that I don't want to pay them two or three percent would they take sixty or seventy percent of my money I don't want to do that I want to learn how to invest in Schwab on my own and I talked about that in the book and then he says you just buy these like you get twelve percent this is not the way it works loaded mutual funds are not the way to go and I that's why we want if you're ever going to learn to invest basically go to Schwab or Vanguard and pay for three basis points for an S&P; 500 fund.
Howard: So I want to ask you something very personal because it is Dentistry Uncensored. So living below your means someone could easily say well Dr. a you didn't live below your means you had five children and now thirteen grandchildren would you say one way to get out of debt free is never get married I'd never have any children do you wish right now that you never got married never had five kids and never had 13 grandchildren would that be a quicker way to get out of debt?
Ace: Well actually the best way is to marry a dentist let her work for you, no she's a nurse.
Howard: Oh she's an RN.
Ace: I met her on the first night I told her I was gonna marry her it would have had more credibility if I wasn't quite drunk on my ass and couldn't remember her last name but I remembered her first name which was Nancy, nurse Nancy and her last name reminded me of a bladder she wasn't gonna give a drunk who wanted to marry her a number so I had to go to the hospital oh she's working I asked you got a nurse Nancy bladder and well I have a nurse Nancy gall that's it I remember I - so I got another date two years later when she graduated and by the way Howard you know my first paid a year I earned $11,000 than the army and I think the most I ever earned in the army was $80,000 and so I mean we lived like that and we were very happy in our lives you know.
Howard: Yeah and kids have just as much fun camping out at the lake as they do flying to Maui.
Ace: We camped we travel all over Europe and it was a great life and the deal is we don't have I mean the best vacations are the cheap vacations the national parks the walks the fishing, I mean all these things just don't cost anything.
Howard: Right it's just a mindset it's just a mindset and then they want to go on vacation to refuel but then they go rack up you know two three weeks worth of income on their debt card and then they're they didn't refuel they're just a stress when they get back as when they got there.
Ace: but they have to learn that it's costing them a hundred percent interest is costing him twice as much I mean when I try and try to get this in their mind if they understand that when you borrow $1,000 or $10,000 from the school for your loan you're gonna have to pay back a hundred thousand dollars. I want you to think about borrowing that ten thousand dollars especially the first year loan and maybe if they figured it that way they think that's why I'm writing the book so that they can say holy mackerel I see what he's saying and I'm gonna get out of debt as fast as I can, that's what this book is about.
Howard: Well that was the fastest hour I've ever done creating personal and financial freedom he's got two free websites for you doctorace.com debtfreedentist.com by the way you did not tell us how you got the name doctorace.com and you're in the military twenty years how did you get at the name Dr. ace was that for the military I assume?
Ace: Well actually my name i AC, my name is Albert Charles my grandfather was AC my uncle was AC and my name is AC and when I played sports I just changed it Ace I thought I got the word Ace and basically the reason I got into college was with my two point three in high school was because I except the state pole-vaulting record.
Howard: and what was it?
Ace: back then it was only 12 foot I think 10 I think in our state's though back then that was quite a few years ago Howard.
Howard: and what are your memories of the Army are they fond memories I mean it must have been good if you stayed there 20 years.
Ace: Oh god I had 12 moves I just I loved the military and I mean ever and I could earn more in one year than I earned in my 20 years in the army but I would never have changed anything for it I mean to be able to connect with people to that camaraderie yes sometimes we work seven days a week but it was you serving your country I loved it.
Howard: I had lunch the other day with the dentist and he's he's only leaving the army after 20 years because they want to move him again he's got two kids in high school and they just told him I'm finishing high school here was it hard on your five kids moving around all that time or were they or what?
Ace: You know actually my kids can talk to anybody I mean you learn to be you learn to connect with other people really well and they've all done well my sons an endodontist with me my daughter was a you know accountant and one's a nurse you know and so we have they're all just yeah it's just been great and they never they thought there was a real plus they actually being in military.
Howard: Well you know I am I have one friend I have two friends for their dad was a very violent abusive drunk so one dentist has never had a sip alcohol because he didn't want to be like dad the other one is a drunk like his dad and blames it on his dad so I'm like okay here's two identical situations where you could learn from your dad what not to do or blame it on your dad and follow him so on that moving around the military the positive attitude. I'll never forget having lunch with tim and eric' crown here in phoenix are the founders of Insight I think they're like the second largest - sir a Microsoft software Insight's just huge and they're from Iowa and I said to Tim I said ah ok you and Eric you're just two boys from Iowa how the hell did you come up with this idea and build one of the greatest companies it's only a couple miles from my office you see it from i-10 and I got a gazillion patients from him over the years and he said well we were military brats and we would move from base to base and we would lay in bed at night and think well why is this country so poor I mean all the people are the same they got the rivers the creeks and and by moving around every year and a half they completely figured out economics and then when they walked out of college they said okay we understand economics that's I thought that was so damn profound because some kids complain that they're gonna get stationed in another country for two or three years and moved to another country and here's Tim and Eric Crown that built a fortune 500 company just by living through the differences between undeveloped countries and more developed countries.
Ace: Yes yes I mean but it still goes down I mean you understand the power of gratitude right how blessed we are every day I mean I just I mean I think we have to each day to think about what we're grateful for. I mean just to go outside and life is so precious I mean even though we have a foot and ahlf of snow I thought this is great you know about me may have snow for a long time but then when the Sun came out you know contrast is the essence of vision you know when it's raining here I'm thinking it's snowing in the mountain and when we have sunny days I just appreciate the Sun so much more you know but it is the attitude of gratitude and if we would just be grateful for the things we have we'd be a lot happier instead but another thing I'd recommend is stop listening to the news you'll be a lot happier.
Howard: Yeah and here's a deal that I've done with my friends I'm I tell my friends look when you talk about politics you get loud and you get agitated and I don't like you but when you talk about sports or you talking about your kids are you talking about dentistry I love ya and it's like I just don't like to talk about religion and politics and sex and violence not because the issues are too complex or emotional just that your friends or family can just turn into weird violent negative animal monsters it's like I know it you know it's like I don't want to pet my dog when five coyotes are staring at him you know what I mean that's just not so yeah that's why I hate talking about politics sex religion violence just because it just no it doesn't appear that anyone's having a good time.
Ace: We have the choice I mean we don't have to listen to any of them and we can be totally at peace with all of this stuff and I vote and my I try to make my vote count and probably in the state of Washington it doesn't count too much for what it is but is this what it is so yeah I don't really worry about too much of that stuff I worry about things I can change, this book is one thing that I put up I think I can change the lives of dentists with this book.
Howard: Well I have to ask you since you are from the great state of Washington right now the Washington State Dental Association is suing Delta Dental of Washington and we did a podcast on that.
Ace: and thank you.
Howard: What are your thoughts on that lawsuit and because you have a 30 thoughts you have a 50 year reference frame on this I mean that's about how old Delta is so what are your thoughts on that lawsuit or association?
Ace: You know the Washington WDS the Delta program it was a great program I mean used to pay our fees we raised our fees every you know six months or whatever and we could raise them and that was great we had dentists on the board and then we forgot one of the most important things is we need to be involved in politics I mean I give 10 20 thousand dollars to my pack I mean we to be able to address through politics and I think I'd recommend all these young dentist be involved in the politics whether it's your local dental society or you know supporting the people that want to support dentistry and you in your state and so what happened was that then a new guy came in a new CEO he raised his when he took home I think from two hundred thousand at one point four million and then he felt that the dentists should take it to 15% cut other fees well everyone was with Washington Dental and they have not raised our fees in the past eight years and we've been trying to do something about it I think this is an attempt to at least get some control back over Washington Dental. I mean we've kind of sold our lives to Washington dental everyone has it because it was one of the biggest ones that we all supported and then I just turned into the devil you know and so we're doing best we can to you know break that monopoly that they have.
Howard: Yeah it's on and the other thing is you know politics is so powerful and a lot of dentists say they they don't realize that those dental societies it's all volunteers and you're listening to this on the way home from work while some other poor bastards on his way to the local Dental Society to argue with other dentists for half the night. The least you can do is be a due paying member because that's your only chance to keep this gig once you decide...
Ace: Exactly, yeah you're absolutely right because but where else you know we're gonna lose one of the greatest professions you know like the physicians have. I mean a general practitioner a physician I mean I know I don't mean to think to make as much as the nurses anymore I bet they work twice as hard and people die on them. I mean we've got a great profession and politics we have to play the game and our politics do you know.
Howard: Well doctor ace you're a mentor of mine I had five kids I only had four my four boys only made five grandchildren yours made 13 even you you beat me in every category known to man. It was just I called you you did not call me big fan thank you so much for all you've done for dentistry for endodontics thank you so much for coming on the show today.
Ace: Oh thank you Howard, I'm a big fan of your as a night I'd recommend that they get your book uncomplicated business because it is a great book to read and a bad time look at mine.
Howard: All right and his book is the dentist 2019 guide to creating personal and financial freedom by Dr. Albert Ace Goerig. Thanks Ace for coming on the show.
Ace: Thank you Howard.