Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
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1291 Dr. Cyrus Tahmasebi on 3D Printing & Digital Technology : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

1291 Dr. Cyrus Tahmasebi on 3D Printing & Digital Technology : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

11/12/2019 6:00:00 AM   |   Comments: 0   |   Views: 110
In his professional career Dr. Tahmasebi has done research and development work on laser whitening as the Medical Director of BriteSmile Company, introducing laser whitening globally. Subsequently, serving as C.E.O of Glamsmile in the U.S., U.K. and Canada, he then became the Vice President of Education as well as Research and Development at DenMat where he invented and brought many products to market including FirstFit Technologies. He continued the research and development of FirstFit at Viax Dental Technologies where he served as President and C.S.O. Today, Dr. Tahmasebi manages the FirstFit Technology for Global Distribution. In the course of his work at these companies he has introduced many products to dentistry, including a Diode laser, lesion detection light, the One Hour Veneer system, and most recently the invention of First Fit Minimally Invasive Technologies. He has appeared as a dental expert on CNN, CBS, ABC and other TV networks. He is recently featured on the cover of Inside Dentistry magazine. Dr. Tahmasebi also lectures globally on cosmetic dentistry as well as minimally invasive techniques.

VIDEO - DUwHF #1291 - Cyrus Tahmasebi

AUDIO - DUwHF #1291 - Cyrus Tahmasebi

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Howard: It's just a huge honor for me today to be podcast interviewing Dr. Cyrus Tahmasebi DDS FACD he is the inventor of first fit technology he previously served as past president of Viax Dental technologies past vice president of clinical education and read research and development at Denmat and CEO glam smile distribution USA. He received his DDS degree from the University of Southern California and practiced dentistry in La Jolla California he has lectured extensively in the United States as well as in more than 30 other countries on a wide array of dental topics he received his dental degree from the University of USC in 91 started practicing dentistry in the same year he continued to stay involved at USC dental school as a guest lecture as well as served as the president of its Century Club Alumni Association and the board of councilors he also served on the board of directors of the ADA the San Diego Dental Association the Orange County Dental Academy he is fellow of the college of Dentistry as well as a fellow of the International Academy aesthetic dentistry and his professional career is in research development work at laser whitening as the medical director a bright smile company introducing laser whitening globally subsequently serving a CEO of black smile in US UK in Canada he then became the vice-president education as well as research development Denmat where we had the founder Bob Ibson on the show and where he invented and brought many products to market including first technologies he continued the research development at first fit at Viax Dental where he served as president and managed the first technology for global distribution. In the course of his work at these companies he has introduced many products of dentistry including diode laser lesion detection light the one hour veneer system the most recently the invention of first member minimally invasive dentistry he has appeared as a dental expert on CNN CBS ABC and another TV networks he has recently featured on the cover of inside dentistry magazine and he also lectures globally on cosmetic dentistry as well as minimally invasive techniques. I could literally read your bio I mean it just goes on and on and on for 40 days and 40 nights you've had a very distinguished let's start with them let's start with Bob Ibsen Demet before we get into fit smile you and I both knew Bob Ibsen very well he was a he was a knob stand opposite true what is it not an ophthalmologist?

Cyrus: Optician

Howard: An optician first and then he became a dentist and his knowledge and optician he realizes that people didn't want these silver dark fillings they wanted tooth colored fillings so he started a dental materials company and that was Denmat and then later he didn't like the way crust and Colgate were cleaning his restorations they thought it dulled them so it was counterintuitive he needed something harder like a titanium dioxide to put a nicer finish and then that was Rembrandt So what do you think of Bob Ibsen what would you say about his legacy?

Cyrus: I think you know God bless his soul Howard you and I both knew the man and he was an innovator he really did contribute tremendously to dance history he was one of that first to come out and promote minimally invasive dentistry you know he Lumineers was a game changer and and I think he'd really from my perspective he did a tremendous amount of contribution to dentistry and I think we owe him a lot of gratitude and I know he was personal friend to you and one to me and thank you for mentioning him and bring him up at this point.

Howard: Well I wanted to bring him up because dentists do one thing better than anyone else they always eat their young and whenever whenever you're Bob is sitting you come out with a new technology you think that the first reaction be like oh yeah we've had this other stuff for a hundred years, thank you for trying but when you trace something new in dentistry though they just eat you and you pioneered so many new things in dentistry You certainly have got to have felt pushed back before.

Cyrus: Absolutely how are you absolutely right it's unfortunate in many ways it's good that we're conservative as dentists and I can speak to that as a dentist but you know we're also very hard on innovation and we're very critical of new systems, new techniques, new technology and I hope to god that you're show and people who are innovative can help us you know as a profession to start opening our minds and start looking at a paradigm shift and looking down the future and an accepting change because it's coming whether we like it or not.

Howard: Well I'm gonna I'm gonna start I'm gonna start back I know I I called you to be on the show you didn't call me this is not a commercial but I'm gonna walk through the deal you started with glam smile so I'm well you sort of dentistry we after he became a dentist and did all I said but your first corporate gig was really kind of glam smile us a talk us through the journey what is glam smile and they have glam smile and Belgium and other places what is glam smile and tell us the glam smile story.

Cyrus: Glam smile is an innovative company based in Belgium get Belgium as you mentioned and they've been innovative in bringing new products to dentistry as well so one of the things that they brought to dentistry was a way in which we could deliver multiple veneers in a 3d printer tray that aligned the veneers in a system in which it made it easier for dentists to place their veneers in so that's where and how I got involved with Glam Smile picking up distribution rights for their product in the US, Canada and UK and it was a very innovative product it was actually with that product that when credit Swiss bank bought Denmat from Bob Ibsen they asked me to come over bring that technology and apply it to lumineers.

Howard: Wow was Bob at the time the richest dentist in the world I mean at that at that time wouldn't you been?

Cyrus: I would imagine so I can't think of anyone who was more successful in managing his business than Bob Ibsen.

Howard: Let me tell you let me tell you how much money you had to have to be Bob Ibsen, I'm at his house we're eating lunch and all of a sudden I almost dropped the fork my four boys he had his own golf course and my boys were having a race on the with the golf carts on his golf course and I could see the car I almost had a heart attack and Bob said sit down no one ever golfs out there it'll give the gardener something too and he didn't even break eye contact with me as my boys were destroying his golf course but he's such a family man down earth but he was just a pure innovator what would make I mean dentists they don't go by the US distribution rights for a dental company in Belgium where does this come from in your upbringing your life how but most dentists couldn't fight in Belgium on a map how did you go find that and make this all happen?

Cyrus: Well I guess I was lucky somewhat because at the time I was the medical director for bright smile company that set up these centers for whitening and I've always had a business inclination as well it was at that company that I had a call from Gee who was the CEO of glance smile in Belgium and he said you know I think we have an innovative system that would do well in your bright smile centers and you can do veneers out of those centers so it was that connection that led me into getting involved with glam smile so I guess some degree of luck Howard to put it honestly I don't want to take credit for it.

Howard: Well I don't know because I some incredible so-called lucky dentists who the the biggest dental show in the world has got to be Cologne Germany every other year and they do it every other year because all the dental companies in the world need two years for a product cycle so everybody releases our new product in Cologne and I've met some gazillionaire dentist over here around the world I'll say well where did you make all the money oh I was at Cologne looking for something I was looking for somebody who was like crushing it like South Korea or Moscow but didn't really have a US company yet and I wanted to get the US rights to the next best thing and then when I got it I knew who to send the samples to I knew you know Gordon CRA or my universe and whatever and now everybody that buys this stuff in the US has to buy it through him so I mean a lot of this stuff you guys always are humble but you make your own luck what would you say to a kid he's never been to Cologne on the Cologne meeting?

Cyrus: You know the best thing I can tell them is I remember you know one time and I grew up in England for a while I was watching TV and Jack Nicholas I just wanted a British Open and the interviewing guy who was a you know some snooty British guy said to him you know it's funny it seems like you get so lucky when you went win this events and his response was priceless he said you know the harder I work the luckier I get so work hard stick at it take a chance that's really all I can say.

Howard: Yeah and that is well said so then at the Glam smile then you're at Denmat and we would talk about Bob Ibsen and then you were Viax what is Viax Dental Technologies?

Cyrus: You know when when I was at Denmat credit Swiss had just bought the company from Bob Ibsen and they brought me in and then another financial group took over Denmat I was working on a project called first fit and I really loved the future of that technology so I negotiated to purchase the technology from Denmat and I had pharmaceutical company backing me in those negotiations and it was with that pharmaceutical company in Miami named Viax that we bought the technology of first bit from Denmat so that's really how Viax Technologies formed it was a group of investors and myself purchasing that research and development of first fit from Denmet and setting up our own company.

Howard: Yeah the so they credits was group bought Denmat Holdings at the time I that was in 2008 and Denmat was on a hundred and twenty five million dollars of yearly revenue according to credit histories that is any may so here's the average dentist I'm doing about seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year just round that up to a million dollars and Bob was doing a hundred and twenty five million dollars a year revenue and a lot of those products a lot of people would say to me uh you know you don't need Rembrandt toothpaste you can just do crest a lot of deals you know everybody always had these deals but it's kind of Chinesemath when there's two million dentists around the world one percent of the dental market in a core pace build up a bond I mean one percent of any product category knock your socks off. When I go to the Copenhagen meeting I I was leading this guy like that guy looks for money I went night it was Bob it was a Dan Fischer of Ultradent and immediately said hey what do you what do you think of this and he looked like a kid in a playground and for five days Dan Fisher just runs from boot the boot to booth looking for somebody's wildly crazy idea and just a just it's just a different mindset so what is the fit bit?

Cyrus: So first fit...

Howard: I'm sorry First Fit

Cyrus: Yeah first fit is a technology whereby we use 3d printed guides to prep teeth so we essentially print guides that helps dentists prepare teeth so these 3d printed guides go in a patient's mouth a handpiece goes in there and they can use that to prepare teeth and because we know what the preparations going to be we can have the final restoration ready for them to deliver this technology is incredibly useful when you it comes to doing big veneer cases we can do a digital smile design for the dentist showing them where and how much they're gonna minimally and reduce a tooth structure and because we know what the final preparations going to be using these guides we can create these minimally invasive veneers that fit onto that arch and create a beautiful smile form using a 3d printer tray to deliver the whole thing so essentially in less than an hour they can prep teeth and in about half hour to deliver ten veneers so in about an hour and a half change someone's smile all predictable all digitally designed that's really first fit.

Howard: Well that's a tall order I mean everything you just said is true that's like an earthquake.

Cyrus: It really is Howard you should talk to the dentists who have tried this technology they will tell you it's a game changer and you know I'm passionate about it and I'm gonna promote it on your show but really it enables any dentist anywhere in the world to use these 3d printed guides to prep teeth and use a 3d printer tray to deliver ten veneers in essentially an hour and a half to two hours.

Howard: Okay well I want you to walk through I mean I know my homies they they want the Betty Crocker recipe first thing you said and that I'm excited about is minimally invasive because when I got out of school in 87 the cosmetic goo years of our time the whole lecture was on what diamond burrs they'd use they had their own Burr kit named after him and Peter Brazier will be at the back of the room he was I love that guy the most I mean that and nobody could party like it was 1999 other than Peter Brazier he's just a hell of a guy and then they get these superstar legends and they just file every tooth down to a kernel rice and it was all for cosmetics and I thought and today if they were doing that you'd remember when they just routinely just well those laterals are tilted so we're gonna endo those it's because the prep will get into the nerve but now you get a lot of unwinding with Invisalign first or minimally six months ortho are it's so much more conservative I'm talking about to the young kids in school how much more conservative it is today then in the 80s.

Cyrus: Absolutely Howard I think you're right on the money there I mean you know it's a shame we're a little slow to change as an industry the dental industry and you know with technology today we can be so much less invasive in our approach to preparing teeth you know it's funny you brought up cologne at the IDS show at the last show in Germany a gentleman Christian Coachman who speaks for Invisalign was talking about you know new technologies and digital smile design and he said something really interesting he said there will come a day where we dentists will no longer just pick up a handpiece and randomly reduce healthy tooth structure and I couldn't agree more he said nowadays with digital smile design we can plan where and how much we're gonna reduce any tooth we can use a heat map on a digital design to see exactly how much tooth structure we're reducing and because we're gonna know and plan what our reduction is we can be minimally invasive and very accurate in designing a final restoration he said furthermore we can use 3d printed guides to do that he was talking about our technology so really the difference is no longer do we need to pick up a handpiece and cut down healthy tooth structure to create space for a lab technician to give us a restoration we're gonna use digital design to help us be minimally invasive.

Howard: well you are by the way Christian Cushman he was on the show episode 186 and when I lectured in San Paolo in 2000 I believe he had 38 dentists in his family it was like 30 I mean dentists laughter so Christian Coachmen has some type of genetic disease that causes you to be I mean I'm not sure why but I wish you would just say everything you said again because when you leave veneers and go to implants they all on for boys for half the day shaving down the hole all this bone so they can do their technique I'm like I'm not sure you should be filing down a bunch of enamel or shaving off your mandible so that your technique can work in this guy's mouth what does that make you because I know you passionately believe this but how could you believe that and then not cringe when you saw an all on four case shaving down the ridge?

Cyrus: Yeah well you know a lot of things we do in dentistry there are techniques and methods that I necessarily don't apply in my practice or believe in I like you and I know you for a long time you've also been a huge advocate for minimally invasive approach to dentistry I'm very much in that camp so personally I applied technology to its best in terms of minimally invasive approach you know and I know technology has been applauded applied the other way as you mentioned in in terms of cutting down the mandible using guides you know so we each in our own terms apply technology to the way we feel best fits dentistry the way first-fit applies it to dentistry is very much in a manner in which we save healthy tooth structure and that's really at the heart of our technology we're using 3d printed guides to prep teeth in the most minimal way possible and plan it digitally so that any dentist anywhere in the world now can use these guides to prep teeth and deliver restoration and remove the need for temporaries as well which you know is a major advantage to the practice and particularly to the patient.

Howard: So what go through for my homie so go so they're driving to work right now most listened iTunes I don't know if it's because they can see my face on YouTube so they go to iTunes I'm not sure maybe maybe as your handsome face we'll get more views on YouTube on this show but welcome to the impression the design the 3d printing guide receiving the case the prep the scene because this is all counterintuitive because you do impression design 3d printing guide receive case prep seat but they do that officer they prep you know so go through how the prep is the fifth step as opposed to the first tab and also not any lab could do this right?

Cyrus: No you're absolutely right there ten major labs in the US that have the technology and you know you can go to and look up the technology and where and how you can send your cases for instance dsg lab who has multiple labs around the country is one of the providers of the technology so most tech dentists out there can find a lab that they can send a case to but essentially all they do and I'll walk you through the process is either they take a full arch upper and lower polyvinyl siloxane impression or they can scan the teeth they send that to the participating lab near them that provides the technology then they will get a digital preview of what that preparation will look like on those teeth let's say for a veneer case they will see exactly where and how much each tooth is going to be reduced to create a perfect arch form once they've seen the preparation and they like it they can also see what the final restorations will look like on that patients teeth without even having touched the teeth at this time so all of this is digitally designed they get a preview and once they okay that then they get the guides and the burr and the patient comes back and they have a specific handpiece that fits these guides they put the guides in the patient's mouth let's say for a 10 unit veneer case it's probably eight nine guides they put in a patient's mouth they use the guides to prep the teeth and then the veneers are all lined up in a 3d printer tray they put the veneers in place and we'll go through the delivery technique with them at their certification course they put those veneers in the tray holds them all in place they can check the margins tack cure them individually remove the tray and do the final cleanup that's a quick you know overall view of the process.

Howard: and who's your product champion I mean are you who's gonna do these cases and lecture make an online CE for dentaltown or post a case on dentaltown who would that be?

Cyrus: Right now we have the big names that are on board you know I mean we've done cases with Dr. David Garber, Ross Nash, Christian Coachmen we've got some really great guys that have used the technology you know I had a great conversation with Mike DeToula so we have some great guys that are on board that are you know using the technology in their practice that are looking at doing further development on the technology so you know we are at our early stages and we're very excited about the future of this because I really believe the future of dentistry lies in 3d printing.

Howard: Now would a dentist ever need or want to own their own 3d printer for this?

Cyrus: You know maybe in the future right now their investment in the technology is $1,500 that's all they're investing in this to get certified to get the right-hand piece and that's it once they have the handpiece and once they know how to use the guides they'll just send in the cases that they want to use the technology with, eventually maybe so maybe they can print their own final restoration but I don't think we're quite there yet.

Howard: Did you know Mike the man DeTola was the first guest on my show?

Cyrus: Oh he's amazing

Howard: Yeah the funniest guy knows there's no one with a dryer twisted sense of humor how's he doing?

Cyrus: He's doing great and you know as always he's looking to you know bring the next near thing to dentistry.

Howard: Yeah now his dad was a dentist and so he's got that genetic disease thing going with the dental deal so you don't need a 3d printer and you do you dentists they just I mean I mean they all I said they always eat their young they always shoot down their first reflexes to shoot down an idea but then they go home and they think about it and I love dentists for this too I mean I don't want some guy you know when if I have a bypass some day saying hey I'm gonna check out this new thing I just bought it to at the bypass convention I love my conservative homies but how was this sound taking off how long has it been out and how long is it and how's it going?

Cyrus: It's you know we've been doing research and development on this for 12 years it's started at Denmat twelve years ago we started introducing it to the marketplace about five six years ago we started in let's see Germany Japan Brazil Panama Costa Rica it took us two years to get through the FDA to get a clearance to bring it to the US market so it was only about a year ago that we introduced it to the US market so it's new here even though it was out in other places but it's taking off I mean we had at the Greater New York show last show we had a capacity for 600 dentists and it was filled and we had people sitting in the corridors and lining up to hear about this so now it's starting to catch on.

Howard: and you know money matters um are you having better luck when they take impression like vinyl polysiloxane full arch and set it in versus oral scan because these orioles are a chunk of change.

Cyrus: Yeah we can work with both and we've been working with both ninety percent of the cases we were getting our polyvinyl siloxane all we do then is pour it up in a stone that's easy to scan and will scan the case ourselves and then we're off to the races but for those who have scanners it's just easier.

Howard: but which one is higher quality oh if I sent you an oral scan or a vinyl polyvinyl siloxane well which one would be higher quality in your mind?

Cyrus: I think scan makes life easier for us to be honest with you for the labs and it's probably more accurate but at the end of the day we've managed to figure out how to make these guides in a way in which the final restoration is an excellent fit so you know once you send us the scan it makes the process more efficient but we've been doing the technology with polyvinyl siloxane at this point.

Howard: Okay here's a problem my next question so if you're you know most of all my viewers are under because by the time we were 30 you're smart enough not to listen to me yeah you gotta be young green and naive to listen to me but they always say well I want to know what oral scanner you would buy now what I'm gonna ask him this but remember it's called channel conflict if he owns a lab and he's getting scans from say 3m scale or oral scanner I'm three shape you know he doesn't want to piss off all the oral scanning labs why should he ruin his life to answer your question, I'm still gonna ask but always be such that the suspect to channel conflict but she's 25 she's driving to work and she's saying come on man there's a bunch of oral scanners you're older than me you've been around the block if you are going to buy one oral scanner Cyrus which one would you buy?

Cyrus: You know enough played around with a lot of them and there's a lot of good ones out there you mentioned all of them you know I think I'm particular to Three Shape but I don't want to you know sway anyone anyway because I'm not an expert in scanners and I don't claim to be but you know we can accept a scan from any of the systems that you just mentioned Howard and they're all great products.

Howard: I want to ask your is a selfish question remain my I respect you as a hardcore dentist entrepreneur and so we just had smiles direct Club go public they were trying to use tella dentistry technology and the orthodontist man they've held their prices 6500 they want more patients they want fat they want everything in the world but they don't want to lower their price I mean what they want to do faster they want to go easier they don't go higher quality they don't want lower the price so here's an innovator says you know what we're gonna do you know those orthodontist here once a month for two years we don't even need to see it once a month we're gonna we're gonna do 14 trays at once we're gonna drop the price two Grand blah blah blah blah blah and I don't think they have any idea how rich and wealthy orthodontist are and they're going to come out them with 50 State Attorney General's 50 they're gonna sue into the ground but from a pure I know that I know I know smiles direct club is dead because I know the orthodontist man there's ten thousand eight hundred of them they all make three hundred thousand dollars a year there you know general dentists might not be smart enough to join the ADA and their local dental society the orthodontist arent naive like that they're spending so much money the st. Louis telling the AAO you go after these guys and they'll get him I mean it'd be like Muhammad Ali showed up looking for me I mean but but from the merits of dental entrepreneurism was there anything you liked about smiles direct club that innovation that new technology?

Cyrus: You know I love the fact that they went to the consumer I love the fact that they set a price that's affordable for the average Joe to have their kids teeth lined up you know and I think they made it a more democratic process where they failed in my opinion in their business model is they try to cut out the dentist and I think the dentist still needs to play a role in the treatment of the patient I don't think it's feasible for a patient to send a scan or an impression of their own teeth to a company that will provide them a dental product and cut out the dentist completely I think that's the weak link in their business model Howard and that's where I believe there's a failure there and I hope to god they approach that and change their business model because what they've done for dentistry in time you make it easier for a greater number of people to get dental care you're doing a service to the community but you can't leave out the professionals who will take care of those people.

Howard: and that is where align technology was so much smarter because Joseph Joe Hogan he knew when he came out with the line technology he knew he was in a court the orthodontist and he didn't care he didn't even care about the general dentist he knew he had to win the orthodontist over first in fact orthos bizarre like I you know how many ortho reps that I've gone to dinner with his head it might ortho reps if my orthodontist know that I called on a general dentist they'll blackball me have you heard that before?

Cyrus: Yep make sense

Howard: Joe Hogan was smart enough to know I got a win the orthodontist over first and what did smiles direct do first oh we're gonna sue any Dental Society or up in Canada well if you're a Dental Society and you say anything we're like were the first thing we're gonna sue you oh oh that's real smart bozo real yeah you're just a little genius I mean that guy I mean he's an idiot his first move was to bite the dental society's an orthodontist when he should have been winning them over I'm a little attract more bees when he launched that lawsuit against the Canadian dental societies that's when I saw I could see the few people supporting him in dentaltown flip that day it was over.

Howard: Yeah really you're gonna come here so beat us with a stick that's your best idea okay you're dead.

Cyrus: Absolutely right

Howard: So Invisalign use but so this oral scanner Dale because I know my homies and and it because a lot of money they're more focused on that so if they're gonna get an oral scanner and they're gonna do clear aligners and vis align is owned by align technology which also owns iTero you said three shape which just seems to me any crown and bridge restorative implantology prosthodontist likes three shape but all the orthodontists like iTero cuz owned by align technology which owns Invisalign so what would you say if she was the young dentist and she wanted to be a cosmetic because what you're talking about it's all cosmetic so I'd imagine a lot of people in your market are probably in the clear aligner market?

Cyrus: They are absolutely I think you know they go hand in hand anytime you want to be minimally invasive in doing veneers which is a great application of our technology a lot of times you want to do some aligners you want to do some correction and so iTero is a great product as well you know we will gladly take scans for my terror which has an application for orthodontics inspires aligners so great product as well so you're absolutely right a lot of the prost and restorative dentists like to reshape a lot of those guys who offer ortho as well and aligners in their practices use iTero and we gladly accept scans from both so yes.

Howard: Okay if I go to your website that you want them to go to to find this is first fit?

Cyrus: Yes

Howard: and you gotta remember that why do I always every time I think your company I think if it at fitbit?

Cyrus: Well just think of it as first time and it fits, first fit.

Howard: I'm sorry about that but yeah my brain to fit that um so but when you go to first fit and not fit bit, first fit it says first fit powered by Henry Schein what is what is powered by Henry Schein mean?

Cyrus: So recently about about a year ago now actually so it's not that recent Henry Schein acquired the global rights for this technology so they're putting their power behind bringing this technology to market and making it a viable technology for dentists around the world so I couldn't be happier I couldn't partner with a better and a better company that has a greater reach than Henry Schein that that's promoting and helping new technologies and new techniques to help dentists in their practice so that's what it means when it says powered by Henry Schein they have the global rights for this technology.

Howard: Yeah you know who Stan Bergman a the CEO Schine know who reminds me of this John Chambers of Cisco because in the 94 to 2000 stock market crazy weather there were four henchmen stocks it was Intel and Microsoft called Wintel and then it was Dell and Cisco and Cisco John Chambers he didn't have an R and D department he said you know what when when the CEO has an R&D; department until he's a dud he says I let the guys out there who are born to be entrepreneurs let them go find the hill and then I'm gonna get out my checkbook and just buy him and he never and the reason he could buy everyone is because once he bought you he didn't get in your way if you wanted to stay in Salt Lake City or Wichita he didn't care and he and he said why how am I gonna make her man manager coming you're the one who invented this stuff and that is absolutely Stan Bergman deal. Stan Bergman is like John Chambers the fact that he has bought I think Stan's merged M&A; actually is about 70 companies but just like Cisco the reason he can buy so many companies cuz once he buys you he's not gonna stand there and micromanage and drown the kitten you know he just he sees how this is a fit and then he buys it and then so you get an advantage you're part of the network but you're not gonna be micromanaged to where you regret selling to Schine so do you think do you think do you think doing this the schine getting the right to this globally you think that will be a plus for your company?

Cyrus: Absolutely we couldn't have really I mean you know when you have a game-changer when you have a technology that can apply across the board in dentistry there's no one better to partner with then a company that has that level of distribution and reach and to your point Howard you're right on the money that allows you to grow your technology manage it input on it and give you total freedom to expand it and develop it to the best of your ability and just support you that it's really my experience with this and it's been amazing because there's no way we could have reached out to so many dentists and started so strongly, especially in the US market where we're introducing this and focusing in on right now.

Howard: Okay but I'm gonna already get specific is this first fit is this about veneers or is it and are also about a crown because and all in all fairness my homies listen to you they do a lot but they do mostly single-unit crowns, veneers aren't that their bread and butter practice so is this a veneer technology or is it also a single unit crown technology?

Cyrus: Really glad you bring that up because it is a single crown technology as well but it in single crowns it is limited Howard I don't want to oversell this it's more of an onlay type preparation it doesn't follow the gingival outline and we can't go sub gingival it's more of a tabletop on lay preparation the technology is really in its infancy when it applies to crowns so in the cases where it's more of an onlay type preparation it's a great application but when it comes to you know having large old fillings does that extend below the gum line you can't use first-fit technology I don't want to oversell this you know.

Howard: So same question about bridge.

Cyrus: Oh it is amazing for a bridge and let's talk a little bit about that it's minimally invasive in its approach to doing a bridge you and I both know that traditionally those inlay retained bridges or maryland type bridges haven't done so well historically for those of us who have been big promoters of minimally invasive dentistry you know in my practice nothing made me feel more guilty than cutting two healthy teeth down for a three unit bridge so I always try to do innovative stuff and and do Maryland type bridges and you know at the time I was using Empress and you know who knows that had an NPA of 190 or something and it would either flex or break or debond now though using our technology we can create guides that creates minimally invasive cuts in the teeth that allow us to do a 3 inlay retained bridge that is no more than two simple cuts on a Jason teeth and we can now use zirconia that's 1200 MPA that falls into that retentive cut and we all know now how to bond to zirconia so we can be really minimally invasive in our approach to doing bridges now which is a great alternative for those patients who are not a good candidate for implants.

Howard: Interesting and by the way, I read a lot of them cyber bullying about from implantology to bridge people and all that stuff and you know if you have daddy issues you know don't do it on social media to other dentists I mean if you really I saw a guy the other day said that three unit bridges should be illegal really well you should turn in your dental license okay because what if they're missing a first molar and they have a low hanging sinus and number two has an MOD amalgam with recurrent decay and number four has a MOD amalgam and you don't want to do a three to bridge but you want to and then you say well you know but you want to file down a virgin bone and lift up a virgin sinus how come why do you dentist what the teeth have to keep their virginity but when it comes to the virginity of a maxillary sinus bone graft inferior alveolar nerve I mean they just throw grenades it's...

Cyrus: Your absolutely right

Howard: It's like you know if you want to go to the Church of enamel and and then blow up all the bones and sinuses and I mean they're just crazy but there's still a place for bridges.

Cyrus: Absolutely and you know I agree I think implants should be the number one option for a patient if possible but your point sometimes they're not candidates for implants sometimes you know with a sinus lift or whether or not they have systemic issues whether or not they're smokers there are many cases where a patient is not the best candidate for an implant and we shouldn't say that that's the only option I couldn't agree more with you sometimes a bridge is a better option one of which you describe another option a patient may have systemic issues may be a heavy smoker and and you know placing an implant on that patient doesn't have a good longevity track history so then we have to look for alternatives and I believe and for those of your listeners I would love for them to go and find out about our bridge application because it's minimal they can use our guides to prep these teeth and deliver a three-unit inlay retained bridge in half an hour saving someone a lifetime of issues and you and I both know there are millions of people walking around in the US with a missing tooth and they don't want an implant now we have an alternative for them.

Howard: So do you what do you what do you think is gonna be the biggest barrier to entry as you roll this out do you think it's gonna be not having a dental lab close enough to them is it gonna be they're gonna need a course or a lecturer what do you think is gonna be the most important thing in rolling this out?

Cyrus: I think you know you and I both know this Howard we've been around this long enough that any time there's a paradigm shift any time you have to change the way you're managing things in your practice you need to make a commitment to that change you need to make a commitment in learning about the new technology you need to make a commitment to training your staff and your entire team to implement that technology it's a lot easier to do things the way they are everyday in your practice than to make change I think that's the biggest obstacle what we're finding is once a dentist learns about the technology once we get their staff on board then the sky's the limit but to get them to really get on board that's the trick.

Howard: When you said staff on board did you mean a staph infection?

Cyrus: The whole team

Howard: Staff to pH staff to staph infection sorry it was a poor joke so um let's take off your dental hat my dental hat dentistry uncentered and now spin around to the patient what is it what is the patient how's this better for the patient what's the patient like about all this?

Cyrus: Oh my god as a patient this is a major development so now we can tell a patient look the way we used to do veneers was you come in with prep your teeth we put temporaries on there you'd leave we pray to God the temporary stay in they don't irritate your gums they don't leak they don't contaminate the teeth you come back you still have them we remove them and we deliver your veneers to you or you just simply come in we use guides prep your teeth and deliver the veneers to you in an hour and a half I mean it is a huge game-changer as far as the patient's concerned. As far as the patient's concerned you and I both know time is essential to them but more importantly making it simple and pain-free is critical and this makes it easy on them they no longer need to leave your practice with temporaries they come in you prep the teeth you deliver the veneers there's nothing better than delivering veneers to a freshly prepped tooth that's not being contaminated by temporaries.

Howard: and I want you to put your dad hat on, let's just say your daughter just walked out of dental school and she says I dad I got two hundred eighty-five thousand dollars in student loans do I need a hundred and fifty thousand dollar Dentsply Sirona cad/cam?

Cyrus: You know I've had chair side milling equipment and I won't name them I've never been great at using them there are practices that do great at it and they have the team and this they know how to scan they know how to mill they know how to finish and for those power to them but I was never good at it I could never put a product in my patients mouth that looked as good as and fit as well as the product that I received from my lab so I will tell my daughter look at first fit look at just buying a handpiece sending a scan letting someone else do the work for you to design the material to design the product to mill it for you to finish it send it to you with a set of guides put the guides in your patients mouth prep the tooth and deliver it save yourself the headache and save the patient from having to sit in the chair for two hours.

Howard: and I also want to remind especially young boys who might not be nearly as understanding female beauty as you as there may be but the woman who gets veneers isn't happy when her temporary falls off on Saturday night at ten o'clock now if you're a short bald guy you figure well maybe my temporary comes off they won't notice the liver spot on my head but that's not how Beauty people work so I think a cosmetic emergency on a woman is just as significant as a pain emergency on a man or a woman agree or disagree?

Cryus: I couldn't agree more and it's weird temporaries tend to fail it's like they're on a timer they fail at the most inappropriate time the minute you get a chance to relax kick back you get that call you know I remember getting page and then nowadays I get a text or a call saying my temporary fell off and I'm flying somewhere or I have a commitment tomorrow and I have to go into the practice at the worst darn hour on earth and and remake it temporary I hated nothing more than that in my practice, I can tell you that.

Howard: but you know what I but you you just you just referenced the Motorola pager back in the day so the young kids probably don't know what that is but when when it started off it was just a pager we just beep you and give you a digital phone number that you needed to call and but what was the most genius thing about Motorola is they they had a rollout and they decided who is the most important who gets the most important phone call well they decided it's a life and death that was a doctor so they worked just with the MD's of physicians oral surgeons and they rolled it out perfectly and within six months your drug dealer had a pager you know I mean cuz everybody's like oh my god the doctor has it you know that's you know I I need it and then I saw another company later come out and it was called palm and palm was another genius product but they didn't pick anybody they didn't roll it out with anybody they just came out with the Palm Pilot and all these companies looked at it and all of a sudden UPS said that's cool I think we should make one for us and then a Hertz rent-a-car that's cool we should make one for us and then you saw just every industry go make their own Palm Pilot because palm couldn't start with one customer so my question to you is who is going to be your your one customer who's gonna be your product champion is that who's the dentist what's the case is it a woman that's rushing to get married and she's gonna elope to Vegas I mean what would be your Motorola palm Motorola versus Palm Pilot what would be your specific rollout the dentist's in the case?

Cyrus: You know I I think at the end of the day this technology serves the community that wants to have something immediate and minimally invasive and I think that's really the way our lifestyles moving too we want things to be easy safe predictable and immediate whether it's you know we're buying something on Amazon whether it's you know we we just want simplicity in our lives and first bit does that it allows a patient to go in and in half an hour to 40 minutes get a three-unit bridge or go into their dentist and change their smile in two hours in a predictable manner and feel safe and comfortable about it really at the end of the day that's where everything's moving to and we feel this technology allows dentists to make life easier for their patients really I think this is a technology that gives the patient what they want in a efficient manner I think really Howard that's our ultimate goal with this.

Howard: Well do you watch shark tank?

Cyrus: Yes

Howard: So who's this obviously the smartest guy on Shark Tank?

Cyrus: Well you know we all have our favorites.

Howard: No the bald guy is definitely the smartest there's no nice guy Mr. wonderful and I'm looking at your at these cases and you have the bald Beauty genius Ross Nash what what is that what is the other bald guy Ross Nash the Mr. wonderful of dentistry what does he think about this?

Cyrus: He loves it you should talk to Ross about this Howard you know and you're good personal friends with him he absolutely loves this he's applying it he's lecturing on it he's teaching it in his Institute he's used it he's had great results and we're currently working with him on this.

Howard: Well I'm yeah have make an online CE course on dentaltown or you are you doing online CE courses?

Cyrus: We would love to partner with you and Ross and do this so let's set it up let's do it.

Howard: Yeah and by the way if you're a dentists and your list of this you're just thinking yeah I mean I mean guys yeah you're the same guys they always tell me you're burned out you're fried you wish you won the lottery you want to quit you hate dentistry and then anytime someone comes out with something fun that might make you laugh or giggle remember that Rolling Stone song where the guy runs 20 red lights on the way to work you remember that is a song? I want here's my view of my homies you know you go in there the staff wants raise the insurance doesn't want to pay the patient doesn't want to brush or floss the patient thinks Obama or their boss should pay for the fact that they live off dr. pepper never brush their teeth you know everybody's you know it's so frustrating that the last place the dentist's need is Heathrow and that's why in dental town we have the report abuse button and if you come to dentaltown just to troll other dentists you're gone we we get enough trolling from staff patients insurance companies and if somebody comes out with an idea let's say you're a burned-out fried dentist and buying a cad/cam or buying a laser are trying something new is what is what now lights you up and and it makes you want to go to work and it makes you wanna have fun well do don't take that away from your burned-out fried homey I mean hell I'm in Phoenix Arizona one to three different dentists commit suicide every single year the last person I podcasts on before you and was from Portland they had two last year so maybe if you're burned now maybe if you're fried if you think a laser or a CAD cam or trying to do a Fitbit case if something just piques your interest rate like yeah that might be fun you need more fun stuff you need more fun stuff and to you dentist who sit there and tell me that you died I had a guy call me Sunday and told me he never ever wants to do a molar root canal again and you could hear it in his voice he's I'm so done with that I hate them so much I hate them so bad I said dude look it's Sunday when you're when you're talking to another dentist on a Sunday morning and you said you've hated endo five times in a row dude stop doing endo you know you don't appear happy I mean it's 9 o'clock in the morning on a Sunday you should be on your second beer by now waiting for the first football game and you're calling dentists telling you how much you're too mean so do you think this would be fun do you think first fit would be fun?

Cyrus: You know every dentist that's using this and their technology says it makes it so simple and fun they're excited about doing dentistry I thought guys who said I was about to retire and here's something I really enjoy doing and it's so easy and predictable it takes the stress away from me takes stress away from my team and the patient absolutely Howard you're hitting on a nerve you're absolutely right we need to have more fun in our practices we need to enjoy what we're doing and once we start doing that dentistry becomes fun and then we start taking better care of ourselves and our patients.

Howard: Well said and let me tell you something else it's fun when you learn a new procedure and you're thinking yourself got it I just I've only done one Invisalign case I only did one first fit case or you're saying they're thinking well who's gonna be my first case well what I always did as I always told the team I said come on we got 50 people I'm gonna do my first Invisalign case anybody wanted invisalign or going back to Omni members Omni bleaching it came out of Arkansas and it was on me whitening gel from yeah Omni Omni care yeah what was it Arkansas you remember the city in Arkansa it was a Fayetteville Arkansas can you remember and it was $900 for 600 bottles of carbamide peroxide 10% but anyway I would tell my staff and and they'd all jump them down let's go back to this the Omni example when I did the Omni example I had six girls in my office said I'll try it and so then those girls were all doing it so then here comes my first patient and says well I mean have you have you uh have you done this before I'm like the assistant Jan did it yeah marry up Friday and they're all like showing their their teeth and smiling so man if when you're gonna try to like do your first implant instead of freaking out thinking well who am I gonna do my first implant ask your friends and ask your staff and then if and then and then you're cool it is for the rest your life when they say you think this dental implant will work you get to turn to your assistant and say I don't know Amy what do you think was it wasn't the first one I ever did on your mother and she's like yeah she loves it and now the patient like okay he did it on his assistants mom so she trusts him and so just build that camaraderie and if you've never done one before and if you're not sure if you should ever try this get your whole team involved get them go to have them watch them by the way this is not a commercial no one paid how much money did you pay to be on the show Cyrus?

Cyrus: Zero dollars

Howard: We funneled the money through Ross Nash the money went to Ross Nash and then was sent UPS back to Phoenix and then Deborah Angleheart flew up and drove it to my house it's a long story but we should we keep it legal but anyway so dentists have fun try something new quit eating you're young. Cyrus you are so amazing to come on the show and talk about this I hope you posted on dentaltown I hope you post some of these case on there and I hope you also know that when you post anything at least 1% of dentists will try to eat you for lunch and that's why we have a report abuse button and it's perfectly okay to have questions it's perfectly okay to say I don't know you know if you know just just have a conversation like you would if you were in your own kitchen table in your own home talking to a friend but if you're gonna barge in there kick the door down and say something stupid dentaltown has a quarter million dentists and we know need one toxic guy I'd rather have half the community with no one toxic then twice as my we just don't need toxicity and my god Cyrus you are so fun and thank you so much for coming on the show and best of luck with first fit.

Cyrus: Howard it's been a pleasure thank you for all you do for dentistry and I'm really appreciative to spend this time with you thank you and to your team. 


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