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Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
How to perform dentistry faster, easier, higher in quality and lower in cost. Subscribe to the podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dentistry-uncensored-with-howard-farran/id916907356
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1316 Kenneth Hagar & Michael Gloster's American Dental Federal Credit Union (Proposed) : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

1316 Kenneth Hagar & Michael Gloster's American Dental Federal Credit Union (Proposed) : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

12/19/2019 6:00:00 AM   |   Comments: 1   |   Views: 162
The proposed American Dental Federal Credit Union seeks to improve conditions of dentists, hygienists, office teams, and their families across the country. Their goal is to bring a member-owned, digital-first, financial institution strictly for the benefit of the dental community.


VIDEO - DUwHF #1316 - Kenneth Hagar


AUDIO - DUwHF #1316 - Kenneth Hagar


It's just a huge honor for me today to be podcast interviewing Kenneth W. Haggard. He's the younger brunette guy on the left and Michael J. Gloucester on the right, the bold guy. I'm the announcer. Kenneth W. Haggard, financial advisor at Merrill Lynch Wealth Management, went to Arizona State University. That's two things we have in common; I work for Merrill Lynch senior year at Dental School and went to ASU. Kenneth Haggard has worked in the financial services industry since 2014. Working for Merrill Lynch, he focuses on clients' financial goals using the latest in wealth management resources. Kenneth works to simplify, organize, and consolidate clients' financial lives while making sure each client understands his or her financial condition, helping them feel confident about their financial decisions relating to estate planning, retirement asset management, investment tax, advantage strategies, and wealth transfer.

Even before Kenneth joined Merrill Lynch, client services has been at the core of who he is. At Merrill Lynch, he provides access to investment resources of one of the world's oldest and largest brokerage firms, alongside the banking convenience of Bank of America, which is the leading banker in dentistry for buying dental practices, to help address each client's individual and unique goals. Kenneth works hard to gain clients' trust and is committed to aiding and optimizing the financial system. Kenneth utilizes these resources so they can make the most of what they have. Kenneth holds a Bachelor in Science degree from ASU; he currently resides in Shelby Township, Michigan. Neither Merrill Lynch nor its financial advisors provide tax, accounting, or legal advice; clients should review any financial planning blah blah... the rest is all for the lawyers.

So then there's Michael J. Gloucester and Kenneth Hager are co-founders of the proposed American Dental Federal Credit Union, it seeks to improve conditions of dentists, hygienists, office teams, and their families across the country. They seek to improve conditions aim more at dentistry. Merrill Lynch, founded in 1914, is one of the largest wealth management businesses in the world. Merrill Lynch financial advisors combine financial knowledge and experience with a deep understanding. So you're not even gonna believe this so I was a senior at dental school. Merrill Lynch hired me as a telemarketer, they were trying to sell IRAs and mutual funds, so the year would have been 1987 and I would go there after school and

I just had one you know this was before Google Internet you just had a phone book so what I would do is I would get the newspaper and I go to the classifieds and I'd look up all the numbers of everyone selling something where you're obviously rich like a sailboat a Mercedes just if it was something that only a dental student could dream of. I called that guy. And I inquired about their deal, and then he said, 'Well, are you in the market to buy?' And I said, 'Are you kidding me? I'm just wasting time here at Merrill Lynch; I cold calls for IRAs, but I was reading your classifieds and I was thinking someday I wouldn't have that and we would just start talking.' And I won the all-Missouri IRA competition for $87, and it was...

but that was my one knack it was just calling people in the classifieds selling something expensive. So what. So. So, tell me about the the proposed American Dental Federal Credit Union. Yeah, let's correct the Merrill Lynch. So we do want to start by correcting our older bios we are no longer at Merrill Lynch and haven't been there for approximately two years. We did go separate ways and go to independent local wealth management companies in the process. But going back to the credit union, and why it was important for us as we built a practice working with local dentists and as a fiduciary. They're revolving around their wealth management, asset protection, insurance, liabilities. We discovered many gaps within the dental community within the system, things such as broker commissions paid for, paid from by banks in the form of kickback royalties, dual representations on buyers and sellers of the same broker.

We believe that there were many inefficiencies that the banking community wasn't addressing, which is very unique to dental practices, and we thought the best way to solve what we've deemed a problem was to take on the ambition of starting a digital dental credit union. Wow, that's a hell of an undertaking. So, it's DentalSeeYou.org. And how long have you been on that journey? Well, we've been on that journey approximately three years. Two years of it was doing the legal paperwork with the government, getting a foundation established to pair with the proposed credit union. So, I want to make a couple of things clear: that we are not chartered yet, but we are in the chartering process and working with the government to get that done.

So it took about two years of legwork, negotiating who can be in it who can't be in it, how we're going to structure it, the technology platform, the players running the pro formas, and working with the government to achieve all these things has been quite the undertaking. And now, we're at the point where we need to generate buzz, educate the dental community about the tremendous opportunity in front of them. It is one of the last industries without a credit union. The pen fed pentagon has a credit union, the House of Representatives has their own, the Senate has their own. Pepsi, Coca-Cola have their own, Apple has their own. Dentistry is the one industry that doesn't have one yet. We thought it would be a tremendous opportunity given where technology is today that we don't need to have a branch system.

Yes, you know how there's really four phases to build out a credit union through the government. You know how. The national credit union administration is very bureaucratic, it's very long. It makes sense from a taxpayer standpoint because they want to make sure when they charter a credit union and they're on the hook for two hundred fifty thousand dollars for every checking and savings account that you know it's for real. So that's one of the reasons it's it's taken so long, and it looks like we're in phase three of the four phases we probably have at least a year to go. So on your website dentalcu.org, it says the mission of the proposed American Dental Federal Credit Union ADFCU is to provide member-driven financial services at the lowest possible cost with superior personal service by promoting thrift, long-term savings and democratic wealth building for its members, promoting the use and ease of technology to increase savings and promoting financial education.

I like some of these new companies. Yes. You know it's a bit of pet peeve of mine that when someone comes in with dental insurance, you still have to cut down a tree; they hand you a piece of paper, and you've got to verify all this stuff. I always wondered why the big boys like Delta and Blue Cross, they just don't have an app. I mean it'd be so nice if they just came in and you said, 'Hey, here's my dental insurance,' and then I just scanned it and it entered everything into the computer. But I have to have high-cost labor dial the insurance company, get on hold, and spend all this time verifying everything because if we don't have a human call in on every single individual, we're just gonna have all kinds of mistakes.

And I see that now with banking that the Chase app is amazing. I mean so will you have an app for this does American Dental have you guys started an app? Yeah, we have some of the best technology partners locally that have developed brand new applications to where we can go from opening a checking savings account to opening a check-in account a lending product in under 90 seconds for a brand new customer with an account being funded so on day one, we're gonna have the latest and greatest technology. For lack of a better term, that technology we rented, so we're never married to a long-term or having to use subpar technology that's old and outdated; we'll be able to stay lean and mean, so to say.

Yeah, but you know Howard, one of the other issues because you sound like you're heavily interested in the technology piece too, so just in the last three years that we've been researching and applying and working towards this, we've seen just the technology piece dramatically; there's always been a trajectory towards you know more laptop and more mobile, but without any doubt, the mobile piece has taken off, it's gone through the roof, and so of course, we'll be concentrating on that. We'll be 100% mobile and digital primarily. So are you guys still with wealth management? That was the question. Wealthmanagement.com? Pardon? No, You're not with Wealth Management? Okay. Yeah, we each have our own. But are you guys related to Bank of America? No. No. Okay. No longer.

We are no longer affiliated with Bank of America Merrill Lynch and haven't been for quite some time. Yeah, I mean they would be the competition. They would be the competition, huh, interesting. So how do you think the dental market will take it? Do you think they'll understand a federal credit union, you know, maybe their parents had one or what do you think? Well, yeah, Ken, why don't you explain just the difference between a credit union a bank if you don't mind. Yeah, it's our belief when we did a nationally significant survey that we will submit to the NCUA based on their numbers, their arithmetic they helped us put it together, so we believe it will valid and pass their testing.

Half of the community said, 'This is awesome, this is great, we love it; how come this hasn't been done yet?' And the other half said, 'What is a credit union?' So, you know, we had to spend a lot of time... and so thank you for allowing us on your podcast to help promote the education behind what it makes a credit union different than a bank. A bank has shareholders and a board that are all highly compensated, and made decisions for the shareholder benefit. A credit union is going to work differently, there are no shareholders; each member that is a member must be a member of the dental profession, either a dentist, all specialties, all 10%9s hygienists, retired persons office assistants – whoever's ever inside of that practitioner that you go to see can apply to become a member, and they own the credit union.

There is no outside investment; money does not flow up through the shareholders and out through the markets to the largest private equities or the owners of each large bank. So, we're trying to keep the money in the family; we're trying to keep the money within the dental community and by doing so on a tax-free basis because a credit union is a non-taxable or viewed as a almost a foundation. We don't pay federal taxes we should based on having no legacy costs, lean and mean, lower staff, less pension, and obligations to former employees. We should be able to compete on all savings and lending opportunities and driving costs down for lending and driving saving rates up through checking and savings programs. Yeah. If you look at right now, the largest benefactor in the entire dental industry is Warren Buffett.

You know he, he, he's the largest shareholder and the top banks that that service the industry in, in you know some of the other I'm going to be careful about what I say here. So that's why I'm hesitating. Warren Buffett, the greatest benefactor. Why aren't the dentists the greatest benefactor? We're essentially building the financial arm for the industry and it's about time that they have someone that's advocating for them, that all the transactions are transparent, that push up the service levels. There's a different refreshing kind of approach to the integrity of all these financial transactions. That's what runs the industry is the finance. You don't have that, you don't have anything. And so why don't the dentist own it and why aren't their dentist on the board et cetera et cetera.

And that's what we're building. And with that being said one more point on that dentistry is still judging by the business you might have more accurate information than us is still eighty five percent local with the corporate dentists and DSOs taking up about the other 15 percent independently. Dentistry makes up the eighty fifth largest industry in the country. It's a hundred and forty billion dollar a year business running through the dentist front doors and all that money is able and allowed to leave the ecosystem. When we were personally working with our dental clients on the front end of their business, they used four or five different financial institutions for everything. There's no purchasing power by having four or five different relationships to manage.

And then when we look at the market based on the 60 different markets that we were talking about in dentistry, they're really based around the front-end financial cost. A lot of it's on inventory controls, staff management, personality management, and overhead reduction. And if we can consolidate that. We should be able to generate increased purchasing power and drive those costs down across the front end. We haven't really heard too many presentations, webinars. We go to a lot of the conferences and very few have front-end financial controls. They're all based on the back-end inventory mechanisms. So you got some heavy hitters on your team. You got Mark Costas who's right up the street here in Arizona. You got Chris Salerno. Margaret Scarlett. You got some big, big dogs on this team. All right.

So are they are they thinking this is going to be a hit? They believe so. So yeah. From the very very very beginning we reached out to Chris Salerno who you know well as the chief editor at Dental Economics. And you know he's down for the struggle for sure. Same with with Dr. Scarlett and with Dr. Costas. You know there's there's a number of other industry. You know influencers and groups that we're working with too. We've got NDAs all over the place believe me. You got MBAs all over the place? No we have we have non-disclosure agreements with you know a lot of different corporations and associations and so forth. So explain that because I am I get those all the time and I just don't do it because it just increased my legal fees because people always send me emails.

Like, come on dude, I'm in dentistry full-time for 32 years. I know, and I'm always afraid they're gonna they're gonna tell me something, and then I have to avoid that space the rest of my life, and I've already maybe been working on it but there's a lot of young kids in dental school listening to this. So explain what an NDA is and what you meant by that. Yeah, so our non-disclosure agreements are with a lot of different some public companies, some private companies, all names that we've heard of, and as we've walked through how we're going to build up the technology and create the wires, we believe we have a lot of intellectual property between our surveys, the research we've done in the dental space, and everything we've gone through with the regulators to bring this to market.

So they have technology that they want to protect, we have data and information that we want to protect as intellectual property, so we agreed to share everything we can with each other in the opportunity or due diligence phase to determine if we want to go into business. For ourselves or partner with a like-minded organization, our hurdle to scalability is that we do have to go you know national digital day one so that it's a tremendous undertaking so we do need to leverage a lot of other larger companies' technology platforms and really create a partnership. Yeah I think it's an important question that you've raised Howard is that and as we've gone along expanded and we've had to bring more people into the room.

We've also had to bring an attorney into the room because now it's becoming more and more complicated. You've got more people listening and working and you're you know collaborating with you everyone suddenly if we're not giving them an NDA they're giving us one and that's just the nature of the game. It's an exciting opportunity for everyone involved. Everyone has heard the idea from the regulators on down to all the potential partners, future members. All of our employees; everyone involved is extremely excited and optimistic about the opportunity. Now it's our burden to educate the dental community and why this will be a major, major benefit to their community at large. Okay, so it says on your website, dentalcu.com (not mentioned) so dentalcreditunion.org; why a credit union?

Eight reasons: one objective, build and operate a financial institution by the dental community for the dental community. Number two, tax-exempt. We are a non-profit. We are a 501(c)(3) organization. Three profit sharing because we are a non-profit, all profits are returned to members in the form of a patronage dividend. Number four low-cost operating cost, no legacy cost, no branches, no cost of equity, no shareholders; first-to-market, lower cost of funds, no federal tax; all-digital banking platform, digital practice expertise; we only serve the dental community. It's so interesting you know when I ever I think of Southwest Airlines and and Price Club Sol Price you know these guys Herb Kelleher Southwest Airlines and Sol Price and Price

Club always talked about that you know you design low cost the only secret to lower fees lower cost like Southwest like American Airlines couldn't match Southwest fees because they don't fly direct they fly hub and spoke they fly several different airplanes they might have meals all these things so it looks like and Sol Price Club Sol Price of Price Club who later it was bought by Costco. But he said the same thing he said everything is cost Sam Walton he wouldn't even have a sale he goes I'm not gonna have a Memorial Day sell in a Labor Day sell that's gonna cost me money and then that's gonna lower my profits and raise my prices. So it looks like you guys have designed a lot of simplistic elegance into low cost.

You hit the nail right on the head, that's what we've been trying to achieve. We have to make this extremely easy to understand. Easier to use. Whether it's lending, checking, or savings, and we don't want to add middle men and middle women to increase the cost to the community. You know when we were doing practice financing, and you're seeing a broker get a one percent commission on the kickback that cost is passed on to the dental community, that's an increased point on let's call it a million dollar loan, that's a hundred thousand over ten years just to pay the broker a ten thousand dollar commission. So if we can cut the fat out of the system, make sure we have the latest and greatest technology that is compatible, and we can control the front-end, that should dramatically decrease the cost across all platforms.

And the whole model, the credit union model allows the industry to do certain things and advocate for the dentist in ways that aren't being done now. So let me give you an example. So for example, you know most of these banks are going to run lending through the SBA program. They're going to max out at five million, as long as you're five million. Or, below you know, you're probably going to get your your loan once you go beyond that if you want to buy another practice or multiple practices. Or now you're a small or midsize DSO, you get shut out; you end up in the no-no lending man zone, type of thing. But also on the other side of that is private equity. So private equity doesn't want to touch you either because now you're not big enough.

So you're too big for the bank, not big enough for private equity. All of a sudden, the credit union we have the way that this industry works; it's a co-op. We can lend to those particular midsize and small-size DSOs all day long. So we've just, you know, locked up that particular market. And another way to decrease cost and increase efficiency is that a credit union is another name for co-op - cooperative. So, in the event that our board, represented by doctors not business people, but the board will be made up of doctors. Practicing doctors, if they decided that we want to have incurred the cost of having a brand system, we can plug into the other credit unions in their networks across the country and if a doctor's chose to do so, they could theoretically walk into a branch to conduct their business.

In the event that we needed to pull a couple of credit unions together to get a big DSO deal done or you know share the risk across a couple of different lending partners, we can do that. I think you would be very surprised to find out if Chase and Bank of America joined forces to do dental deals, which they're not ever going to do, but we have that ability with you know to plug in with the other fifty-eight hundred credit unions across the country. Yeah. So let me add to this co-op, this whole idea of the co-op because I think that's a really good point. You know, for example, you know, Doctor, you have brought up Chase earlier, so Chase, you know, has roughly six thousand ATMs across the country.

You can use any of those; it's free. You know, if you're at the credit union, we'll plug in because of the co-op model to eighty thousand ATMs. So that's the difference between those. And to be frank, if we tried doing this five years ago, I don't think the technology at scale would be able to do it. When we talk about credit unions like the Pentagon Credit Union, that's all very close by; it's in the Pentagon, it's very easy for people to get to. You know with the board being eighty-five or so percent independent and probably what I would say is the last great American family-run community-based business. And I think that's another reason we want to get involved with the credit unions and dentistry is to keep that business community-based and family-ran versus the DSOs and the big corporate guys.

You know, but with that being said, with the technology being what it is, we can deliver national digital solutions, but with a hype, you know, personal touch if needed and if the board decided that. That was important for the members. So we can really design this based on upon you know what experts like yourself think or Dr. Salerno, Dr. Costas, and Dr. Scarlett there have been a tremendous guiding force on where we need to be spend energy and time for solutions. That was my next question: who was the brainchild, whose the guy who started this whole movement? Us two, you too? Yeah. Wow. You're looking at the brainchild. Well, I was very impressed that you got a Mark Cotter. Mark Costas, Chris Salerno, and Margaret Scarlett.

So Mark Costas, you've heard of him; he was on the he was on this show what episode was he? He was one of the first ones; he was episode 105. He says on the website during my experience of developing multiple dental practices and founding a national company with almost 100 locations I have made many mistakes but with each mistake came a learning experience that served to improve my understanding of what it takes to run a profitable business, real-world trial and error, self-study. And surrounding myself with excellent mentors has given me a unique perspective in the management of successful dental practices. My consulting and coaching company, the Dental Success Institute, was developed to help dentists to overcome the frustrations of dental practice ownership and bring their practice next level.

So, what does Mark hope to get out of this American Dental Federal Credit Union? Dr. Costas has really taken an altruistic approach. You know, being on the board is a non-paid opportunity; you're donating your time for the betterment of the entire community, that's what separates credit unions from banks. There has to be an altruistic backbone that supports the entire community. These are non I mean I don't want to get it mistaken words non-profit doesn't mean not profitable it just means what do we do with those profits at the end of the day and those will go distributed to equal percentages based on your relationship with the credit union. But Dr. Costas specifically believes for young doctors and to keep the industry independent. That this would be a tremendous win.

When we were Dr. Costas' Conference last year, the good guys at Dykema believe that DSOs and corporate dentistry is going to make up over 50 percent of the market sometime in the next 20 years, and I think that'd be a travesty. Dentistry is the last family/community-based business I think in the country. If you're sure you travel a lot, Phoenix Arizona looks a lot like Detroit Michigan it's the same Targets and Walmarts and you know Nordstrom's everywhere you look. You're, you're, you're... You know pharmacists aren't local anymore; chances are your car dealer probably isn't. So I think having a lot of legacy doctors who have a lot of influence within the community. I think this is a way for Dr. Salerno Costas and Scarlett to pay it forward.

Well, yeah, and I would just add to that. I think that Costas understands that dentists are dentists, and they're not necessarily business people. No matter you do, there's just certain dentists, no matter you know what you know, what you do, they're not going to be business people; they're clinicians. And it was refreshing for him to see that there would be an institution, a financial institution, that would advocate for the dentist, that was totally transparent, with no hidden costs or fees, you know, 'grab my money and run.' It wasn't going to be like that; it was going to be kept within the community, and that there was this whole education component, so I think that's why he's climbed on board. You know, Dr.

Farron, you're one of the rare ducks in dentistry you went back and got your MDA, you know. From our experience, there's not too many doctors coming out of dental school that's had an accounting class, a business class. The schools are phenomenal at making them practitioners, and that's what they come out doing. I think the framework, especially with the millennial generation, the younger generation is: school to become a dentist and now you're a business owner. And I think there is a lack of education understanding what that means. Now, I'm an entrepreneur who just happens to be doing dentistry when I become a practice owner. And having a financial institution that fully understands and supports me through those struggles, whether it's debt consolidation or student loan refinancing or providing the path to ownership or providing the path to that automobile at a reduced rate only encourages that entrepreneur out of dental school to hopefully want to become a business owner.

I mean a question for you is I mean and it's a question we would ask dentists and do is why wouldn't you join the credit union? You know if you had all of this in front of you, it's all set and ready to go why wouldn't you? It just doesn't, it wouldn't make any sense not to. Well, you know I like the the fact that you know your first objective is to build and operate a financial institution based by the dental community for the dental community. You got to remember when I went to ASU, went back to get my MBA, and I recommend it to anybody; it was a life changer. I graduated dental school in 87, I went back in 98, but back then the five C's of the internet were gonna be it was gonna be commerce like Amazon, it was gonna be content like news, it was gonna be commercials like banner ads, connectivity you know hook to your cell phone and all that.

But I, and but I, I chose the fifth C, the community. At the time I started Dentaltown in 98, there was about 20 venture capital backed big big operations that were going to be the Amazon and disrupt Shine and Benco and Burkhardt and and all those deals. And I had the exact opposite reaction because since I was a real dentist that when that supply lady came in once a week, I mean she was my only connection. To the outside world, I mean, I didn't care about what she thought of the endo files. I want to know what what was the endodontists up the street using? What did you know? What was everybody using and what labs?

And I wanted the connectivity so when I saw the internet came out, it's like, well, I don't want to start Dentaltown and then get rid of my supply rep. I want to enhance. I want to scale my supply rep. I want to start a community so all these dentists can get on there and you're right, they love to work with their hands. We're surgeons, just like welders and electricians. I love it when someone comes in with a toothache, and I can get him out of pain and I can do the root canal or pull the tooth. But when you're done with the day, they don't want to go back there and see how many incoming calls they had that day, how many went to voicemail, how many people landed on their website, how many converted to call the front desk, of those that called the front desk, how many converted to an appointment.

That's not them at all. I mean, that's just not them. Mark Costas is like that. You know he's top one percentile like that. He loves the business side. The other guy in your your deal is Chris Solerno. While in dental school, he was the national president of the American Student Dental Association. Today, he continues his advocacy efforts with the American Dental Association, the New York State Dental Association, and the Suffolk County Dental Society. In 2013, he served as the national chair of the ADA new dentist committee. In 2014, Dr. Solerno became the chief editor of Dental Economics, the profession's leading business publication, and he was instrumental in updating the look and type of content in the magazine and its online properties. What's he excited about in all this? Well, have you interviewed Dr.

Solerno? Absolutely! I am; I am; yes. Because he's like, wicked smart, yeah, yeah, he's like, yeah. I feel like you're two sentences behind, but again, his whole he was on board. I mean, we literally called him from a car phone in the early days of all of this and he was taking a train ride over to NYU to do some kind of a seminar and he said, 'I'm in,' right then. He said, 'He's in.' He's been there all along. So again, it's for the community with with regard to him; he doesn't have to do this that's for sure. No, when we laid out the business plan, he almost heard the collective head scratcher saying, 'This hasn't been done before,' and it's probably time it does happen.

He's you know tried racking his brain to see if there's anything like this out there, and there isn't. And I think he was refreshed when we heard our business plan to go to market because it would provide closing giant gap in the, you know, community. Like you said, the community is very rich in technicians and lobbyists working on new ways to develop technologies. new studies the schools are on the cutting edge of techniques there's a bunch of podcasts out to help educate students and I think it's really important for us to be able to make you a better practitioner there isn't any one place trusted place to go for financial education so whether we

have self-produced content through the credit union or we plug into a third party educator what we've had discussions with them about it will just be a nonprofit based opportunity to either get education on financial matters to help run your practice consolidate debt it's the missing link with within the community I think is that Financial education, yeah, and the other point is when you have a Chris Salerno on the board or that you're just collaborating with you know he's been able to open a lot of doors very quickly for us so we, we may have opened the door eventually but it would have been a very long shot, you know. Just a phone call from him, you know. The next thing you know, some of these key, very key people within the industry are picking up the phone.

So let's talk about the third Margaret Scarlett DMD, the owner of the DMS. The owner of Scarlett Consulting International. What would she, she's a very successful consultant. What's her thoughts on all this? Good friend of Ken's good friend, just a fantastic practitioner as well. If you haven't had the chance to ever interview her, I would strongly recommend it. She was episode 337, yeah, of course, you know Dr. Scarlett. We got a chance to know her when she was still on the board of the American Women's Dental Association, and she's a very successful consultant. Just a fantastic group that they have there a ton of brilliant women in that organization is going to be just fine going into the future. She has a truly altruistic heart when she spends a lot of time working with students.

And, you know, when these students come out of school and they specialize you know - from the young woman's perspective, she's having the communications with us, but this young woman doctor if they specialize will come out with almost three-quarters of a million dollars in debt. They may be in their late 20s, in a traditional relationship, they might want to get married and have children. And you know before you know it, you're you know if you have a house and a car and a practice, you're over a million dollars in debt, and almost don't have a shot to get out of the gate, equally. So, she's been instrumental in keeping us grounded to what the younger doctors are going to need into the future, and that's really her specialty - trying to work with us to come up with solutions on the younger practitioners to get them to become owners.

She, yeah, she's like the ultimate industry advocate for the student loan, you know, to get them to become owners. So, she's been a great help on that journey. Yeah, she's been a great person. So, you know, we're closely aware of that and very full, and then definitely on the front burner the whole student loan issue. Well, it's very important for us because we're not practitioners; we come from a financial background, so having a board of practitioners is going to be the guiding light that we need to make sure we're developing the products and services that are needed. You know, people like Dr. Costas, Dr. Sloan, Dr. Scarlett, and yourself are talking to doctors of cross-border health; all ages, sexes, locations, career development, skill sets every day you're having those conversations about their pain points, what's working, and what's not working.

And being able to tap into such a diverse group will only make us a better organization when we go to develop products and solutions. And how does the DSO factor in all this? What do you guys think of how that's gonna do the industry because Costa's and I are in Arizona, and that's ground zero for DSOs. 18% of all the dentists in Arizona are affiliated with the DSO. Where there's the other end of the spectrum, there's five states it's not even 1%. So it's really, really huge out here. Do you think it'll help them? Do you think it'll be a bigger advantage? What do you think? Well, let me give you two things: The credit union can't discriminate against who joins the credit union, so it is for the workers of the community.

It doesn't matter where you work, but again, we believe that on a small mid-sized DSO lending platform, that would be expanded. Yeah, in short, the DSOs would be able to take tremendous advantage of our ability to get larger lending deals done. This will absolutely 100% impact them and that's a spot that we're taking very seriously, to provide liquidity to the people that do need it. So, the DSOs will be a big part of that. I think it's going to be a big part of that. It's going to be a benefactor, and we just want a space for people to compete independently; the dental market is going to do what the dental market is going to do.

We can't stop the DSOs from becoming mainstream, but what we can definitely do is provide the liquidity for them to grow in service and take care of their employees or we can create the path for young entrepreneurs that happen to do dentistry to get into a practice. So it's not our job to dictate what the market does; we just want to make sure there's options for everybody at a low, at the lowest possible cost. Competition is key; we're free market people through and through. That Margaret Scarlett who's the owner of Scarlett Consulting International I mean she was a senior policy analysis at the Centers for Disease Control for 29 years! I mean that is a heavyweight. She is one incredible woman; I'm very fortunate to call her my friend, and we talk all the time.

Every time we have a discussion, I learned something new. Just not through business or dentistry but just life lessons. Her background is truly incredible and if we're able to pull off this credit union with the support from the members it is a real gift to have Dr. Scarlett a part of the board just for those reasons. Not every day you get to meet someone on the front edge of CDC public policy. Yeah, I mean I remember dealing with the CDC when I got out of dental school and was trying to figure out why Phoenix wasn't a folder dated, and I mean you go down there they have a lot of people who are the top of the list.

They have 15,000 employees and they're all trying to stay on top of everything from water fluoridation to the Ebola outbreak, I mean they're just it's an intense organization. I tip my hat to those guys. And the CDC has their own credit union that Dr. Scarlett is a member of as well so I think she's you know passionate about all of her passions and I think it was an easy connection for dentistry next in her evolution. So do these three guys, does Mark, Chris, Chris and Margaret have a title or are they just are they just giving you reviews on your site or are they they have positions? So board members and so Chris Salerno and Dr.

Scarlett have both been approved through the government and which is a very lengthy process it probably takes about five months and Ken and I have been approved there's you know very deep and narrow background checks on these people. Because of it's a financial issue. It's a financial institution and we're still waiting on Mark's. So their official title within the NCUA would be subscribers or founding subscribers founding board members. Nice so there's also another tab on there I'm looking at where it says why contribute so you on your dentalcu.org dentalcreditunion.org you have the home why contribute learn more. So talk about the why contribute are you asking people to contribute? We are first our primary focus to educate on why this is a necessity for the community.

There are so many positives outweigh the negative so we need to educate the members on why this is going to be a benefit for them and because it is nonprofit it's very tough for profit seeking companies to want to contribute the capital necessary we do have some communications with some of those companies. And those are progressing nice but in order to go back to the NCUA and the government, we need to have the members embrace us. We need the members, the future members, the community to go to our website, get educated, and if they believe that this is something that's beneficial, donate to the cause. With our foundation, you may have a write-off event, and that's going to do a couple things for us.

One, it's going to help us capitalize, which is extremely important; we do need money to pull this off, you know. But two, when we go back to the government when we submit our final business plan with approval and showing them an account an escrow account with the money in it, we're going to be able to say, 'Look, we had X amount of donations.' We believe this is going to be a first-year, second-year member, this is proof that the industry does want this. Just because you know we have this plan with the government in place doesn't guarantee anything; we still need the members to individually buy in and a donation. Following us on social media through our website, you can get to us on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.

All that's very important when we show them that this is just not a great idea on paper, that it will translate to the people who need it or that it will support you. I'm not sure if you picked up the foundation piece there, so when the donation comes in and actually goes to the American Dental Foundation which is our 501c3 and fiscal sponsor for the credit union; that way, if you just made a donation to the credit union, it's not tax deductible. If it's made to the foundation, then it's tax deductible, and then it flows into the credit union. We don't want to bore your members with the legality of everything because this will take us down a path that will surely get them to turn off the podcast.

But with that being said, the credit union in the government size isn't a legal document signing entity until the day we're allowed to open our first checking and savings account. So even if they approve the business plan, we have the money; we're still not legally an entity. We don't want to be an entity to their eyes until they go on April 1st of 2021, you can accept your first deposit, that's the day you're legally an entity. So we had to create a foundation as a holding tank for our assets. Also, as you know, they care to help solicit some donations, but it is the legal entity that can sign contracts with the technology people, hire staff, pay the bills on behalf of the credit union until we're legally allowed to say that we're a legal operating credit union.

So the left hand definitely washes the right hand. In that scenario, it was a necessity to get that up with the credit union. So how much money are you trying to raise through contributions? We would need about five million dollars for a three-year burn rate. All of our projections and we have a handful of consultants that spent a lot of time within the NCUA in the private markets. We should be cash flow positive around 12 to 13 months, but the five million would give us about three years' worth of burn capital. As we grow, we create economies of scale; costs do decrease with more members at the same time as increasing. When we anticipate starting to give everyone a rough idea per member per month when we start should be somewhere between a dollar fifty to two dollars for each member and hard cost.

So as we create a scale that cost goes down but also increases you know your monthly expenses. So the five million dollar number no matter what happens we feel comfortable that that will be capitalized for three years. But. Profitability within around 13 months. The five million though if you look at the industry revenues of 140 billion you're looking at less than you're looking at less than one half of one hundredth of a percent. It's not a lot of money relative to the industry and the revenues involved. So how far are you on your goal of the five million? We have just started this process of education. And seeking partnerships and strategic, and money raising; so we're not very far along.

You're hoping what we're hoping that you're going to provide a nice big jumpstart in the education front, and even if we're unable to secure the dollars right away, I think it's more important that the community understands the opportunity in front of us. If we can build at least a network through social media, a good following on Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter, where we have all kinds of content, you know, credit unions versus banks; what makes you know, Credit Unions different than Banks? The opportunity, news articles. It's really that education first and then soliciting the date of donations secondarily. So we're not very far along. We just started the process. Yeah, it truly is a catch-22 because you can't you can't just say, 'You know, open your wallet.' We're going to open a credit union and people say, 'What are you doing?

What do you mean?' So there is this big, big push for it. Then we'll come back and you know make the case. Yeah, it's for the donations. And where where is the community right now? Where are people talking about this to get more? Is there a community place on your website or is it like said LinkedIn, Facebook, Dental Town, or what? Where is where is most of the people discussing this through our social media platforms and through some small email marketing campaigns, we're really trying to drive awareness. We do not have a space on Dental Town yet, and we would actively like to work with you on achieving something like that. So right now it's primarily through our three social media platforms and our Web site; coming onto your podcast or supplementing with the video.

We're hoping that this will be one of our first big pushes in that endeavor to help create education and generate awareness. That is interesting. So... so... so, how long have you got? You've been on this for two years now. Yeah, we're pushing three and a half. About the first three years was all the paperwork, contracts, attorneys, meeting with the technology people, so we know how we're going to connect all the wires and who's going to do what job and when. Now it's making sure that the community supports us. We know most credit unions start the other way: First they generate awareness, get the money, and then they figure out everything on the back end. But no credit union has ever launched a national and digital day one. So it is a pretty rare feat.

And it did take a lot of time to get the NCUA to believe in us. So, with that being said, we want to make sure we could deliver on the technology platform with the right partners everything from being able to open a checking and savings account in under 90 seconds to loan processing to credit cards to patient financing. We have solutions across all lines of business, merchant services. So, we spent extra time making sure we could deliver on that promise before we went to market and started getting people excited about an opportunity. It was very important. It was important that first, everything was possible. Yeah. I think what you're what you're witnessing is disruption in two different industries. So, we thought we'd come along and just move the ball forward in the dental industry in the financial space.

But then when we got to the credit union side, we realized we were going to disrupt the hell out of them too. It's all positive because they don't have national debt. They don't have dental digital credit unions. You know this just isn't happening over there. So, we had to pull those folks up to to where we're at. Not to mention you cross the line now, you're in the dental industry and we we knew it's going to be a struggle they're just educating getting one up to speed. And, of course, the so-called competition isn't going to lay back or sit down. So, that's what you're seeing - it's very positive with both industries, but there's a lot of disruption. And you know again, this is going to take time.

We're unique from the standpoint that a vast majority, some 90 plus percent, of credit unions are community-based credit unions, meaning as long as you live in the state of Arizona, you can probably join just about any credit union. We've been specially designated as a TIP, a trade industry profession. So it is 100 percent geared towards the people that work inside a dental office. It's not community-based, in the terms of. But geographically, your area is the community based on the dental profession. So that's unique in the credit union industry as well; another vast majority of the credit unions are around 100 years old, you know, start in the 20s, in the 30s with a couple young gentlemen just throwing a couple of dollars on the table if someone needed a loan they'd pick it out of the fishbowl and put it back in over a period of time with assumed interest rate.

So a lot of these credit unions have old legacy costs and systems. Right. Right now, there's a giant consolidation within the credit union industry as well. They're losing about 250 credit unions to mergers and acquisitions, to everyone that started there hasn't been a federally started credit union in quite some time. So this is an exciting opportunity just not from the NCUA standpoint but the dental community you know credit unions are becoming you know scarce in order to achieve growth they're buying and selling each other and merging and to generate their reach. This will be the one of the first credit unions federally chartered in quite some time. Well, you know, if you go to

Dentaltown, see what I like about Dentaltown as opposed to social media all your Facebook's, Twitter's, LinkedIn they're all 'last in, first out.' It's a whereas a message board is more like when you're went to ASU, if you go over to where they're working with the jet propulsion laboratory; everything's in a message board, so it's all archived and so all 5.6 million posts by all - quarter of a million dentists are searchable. So I just put in credit union and I pulled up nine thousand six hundred and sixteen threads, the first one being on Dr. Acosta's podcast, I heard about a group building a credit union for the dental community, I looked into dentalcu.org and they are planning to have personal accounts, business accounts, everyone in the office seems to like the idea, and it just goes on there, there are credit unions.

People are saying, 'Is it better than a bank loan?' people are asking if they will practice finance, dental equipment transition, practice transitions that will you be doing that well? One hundred percent, and that's why it was important for us to take our time and make sure we had the right partnerships in place. When we go to launch, this is a high-level conversation that we've been having lately. Of course, we need to block on tax checking and savings, that's mandatory. But the next two solutions that we think. We need to deliver on Day One is equipment lending and practice lending, whether that be transition expansion remodel. If we can execute those two very well, we believe that that will set the credit union on the right path forward. We can eliminate credit cards.

We have again, we have a solution for credit cards as well, business and personal. We have a very unique solution for patient financing so this is one of the reasons that took us along with the NCUA to work through the languages. We want to offer patient financing, and they said, 'Well, you can't.' And we said, 'Well, why not?' Patients aren't doctors, and patients aren't in the industry. That makes sense, so we didn't fight them. But we can partner with a third-party provider to deliver that to our members. So, the credit union won't facilitate that on their own. But through the right partnerships, we can one day one roll out with patient financing and we have two different ways of doing that. We have your traditional credit card type of model that a couple of the big players already have.

And we're working on a solution that will mimic a home equity line of credit, so to say, a revolving door for the patient, so the doctor will have the ability to choose either one. And going back to the paperless technology is that if the patient or the doc decided to do the credit card model on patient financing for example it'd be a digital solution versus a physical card and statement that got sent to the patient. So everything would be done digitally on the mobile device while you're in the office. Yeah. And let me give you one other of the whole transparency and advocacy, and some of those questions are wonderful; I'd like to kind of delve into those at some point.

But just just on the equipment lending: so we know that there's, there most of these banks if you come in and you ask for a loan and it's under 50,000 they're going to tell you to hit the door. So the credit union is not interested in that. We're not interested in the next next dividend. We're for whomever we're interested in the community. So if it's under 50,000, why wouldn't we take that loan as long as it meets all the parameters for our lending? We would do it, and that's again part of the difference that we're talking about here. So when you do practice transition loans, buying and selling a practice, they're also asking this credit union for real estate to buy the land and building under the dental office, so it's business and real estate.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Full commercial lending capabilities. Yes. Huh well you know I think you should get your I think you guys should get on there and my gosh just search just put in credit union that's all you get there's 9,000 threads talking about credit unions and you should get Mark Kossas, Chris Salerno, Margaret Scarlett, Kenneth Hager you know all you guys Michael Gloucester and just start. Is Farrah Media going to let us on because we're not dentists are we gonna be able to work through that some way? Well, you know that's an interesting thing because when I started, I obviously had dentist town but I went with dental town because, and with quite a lot of resistance.

Remember, I own ortho town too, and the orthodontist to this day still will not let anybody on the site that's not an orthodontist, but I fought tooth and nail in the beginning because people would get on they'd say, 'Oh, this guy was on there, and he was he's selling something from a company like oh so you're a volunteer.' Dentist that gives away free dentistry in a homeless shelter tell me more about yourself oh you sell thousand dollar because the way I looked at it is there's about 500 dental companies if they went away I'd be outside on a rug with some tools I bought from Home Depot trying to pull a tooth and I've been to those countries and the only reason I look good is you know digital x-rays and CBCTs and apex locators and and I thought you know if everybody on dental town was saying you know I wish this.

Composite was blue instead of red well that's just what it should have cut it if those people aren't on the site listening to you then it's never gonna happen so I fought with dental town I still can't get ortho town to let him on but so our rule is if you work full-time in the dental industry you can be a member and it's about 15% and every once in a while someone come on there and you know say something you know are they selling something but it's pretty self-correcting. I mean, you obviously know a thousand times more about a credit union versus a bank than any of my homies. I mean, I have an MBA and from ASU, did you guys both go to ASU?

No, just me, yeah, no, I went to Michigan State and then I got my MBA at Notre Dame. Okay, because I had a okay, and yeah, Notre Dame, right down in Chicago, but yeah, so I you know. I need people on dental town that have organic chemistry degrees to explain the bonding of an agent. I need people that have MBAs from ASU to explain the difference between a credit union and a bank, and and you're right they do a lot of horrible decisions which is my next lead-in is I'm right now that the top practice management systems is Dentrix, Soft Dent, Open Dental, Eagle Soft, and it doesn't even interface with Quicken. So you know. Well when you talk about finance, I mean it's like designed schizophrenia where they have all their dental office insurance billing statements all that in one system and then they have all their accounting in Quicken and those two don't talk to each other.

Will your do you guys think in the future moving technology forward that you'll maybe have some interfaces between say Open Dental which is open, yeah. It's the fastest growing because it's open, you can program to it. Have you ever thought about maybe programming links from your credit card processor to Open Dental to Quicken or is that too fanciful? No, that's 100% been a part of the discussion that's not a day one solution for us to go to market that is, you know, way down the game theory matrix but we have had those discussion with those technology people and it's all doable that we feel is important to go to market with. We have enough on our plate but that will once we get established and rolling be something else that we do tackle.

What about student loan refi? It's a big industry, you get out of school, you have all these student loans to refi, it into one loan are you thinking about going into student loan refi? That's a key piece. Absolutely. Anything lending based, you have a solution for that is it what to go back to last analogy, that is a day one solution, that we think that is a core competency that we have to execute. I'm being able to either refinance or refinance. What about patient financing? Yes absolutely. Wow, I never thought, you know when I was growing up, GE, I mean it started out with Edison, it was one of the only companies that were over a century old, you know what the oldest publicly traded company in Japan is running it started in 1890.

No what is it? Nintendo. It started out as playing cards and games. Oh yeah, and a century later, you know they came out with my favorite video game of all time, which was when my boys were young, that Nintendo 64, Mario running through the house but I, I never ever thought they would fall from grace like that. I mean, when I was getting my MBA, Jack Welch was quoted every night and he was in the and he was all into the financing. Why do you think why do you think GE crashed? And what lessons did you learn from GE that you think you can get into patient financing? Well, I think GE's problem is a lot more than we can handle this podcast, but at a high level, it is that they got into so many industries, not just not their financial arm.

You know, they make engines, train parts, locomotive engines, jet engines, all the appliances. GE got so big, it was really tough to understand the mechanics behind it; they couldn't you know scale properly; they couldn't run the business. They got so big. And just about every industry you can imagine, they had real estate. I think they were starting to get into all kinds of businesses. Can I tell you my old man perspective on that? You know Joseph Schumpeter got a Nobel Prize in economics about business cycles, and from what I could tell from his book, it's basically his point was look who's making all the decisions a bunch of crazy humans, of course. After six or seven, ten years there's gonna be a lot of bad decisions.

But I also look at it as that I'm thinking about that ping-pong game? That one of the first deals where you had a slider bar and a white ball, you knock it back and forth. Yeah, pong. Yeah, pong. Was it pong? You know like when I got out of school there was a dental supply company in every city I mean there were in the big cities had several and then the guys like Pete Frechette at Patterson and Stan Bergman at Shine they're the consolidators and they went around mergers and acquisitions and bought them all up and consolidate them all and now they're deconsolidating again. Now you're back to there's now a dental supply company I mean my I've podcasted a dozen new dental supply companies all the kinds of different names.

Same thing with beer when I was little there was 15,000 breweries it all consolidated to Bud and Coors and Miller Lite and now it's deconsolidated again. So I look at these big companies like Siemens which when I got in dentistry was a spinoff Serona which now married Dentsply. Johnson Johnson Gillette. They they're. You know when there's a huge when there's a hundred players in a cottage industry, someone will naturally roll them all up and as soon as they're all rolled up, they realize they can't manage them and they'll implode, and then they'll they'll all be leveraged back to the beginning. So it seems like just a cycle consolidation and consolidation. You backed into one of our philosophies that we're starting to see, and it's really the difference between banks and credit unions or banks and publicly traded companies.

The credit union is, in essence, a private organization for the members. We only have to open our books to our members and our board, and it will be made public. But who's going to have an interest in reviewing our books? A public company, whether it be you know the Patterson the dental suppliers any bank, any public company, every 90 days has has to open their books and they have to show increased revenue on behalf of the shareholders. You know, remember when you're dealing with any public company, they're not worried about you know Dr. Farron the consumer of. You know, the 3M junk; they're not worried about you know the employee, they've got to drive revenue for shareholders.

I'm not saying that business models that I love, that's a business model but it's not always necessarily the best model for an individual or a consumer base and I think that's where the credit unions offer a better alternative. And with that being said, with that constant need to show growth and drive revenue, these big companies have to diversify their income streams; you need multiple sources of revenue. Whether that be different industries so GE, to go back to your example, had to get into those other businesses because they had to show new revenue growth to make shareholders happy. If we can stay deep and narrow, and just be industry financial experts for the credit union that gives us great competitive advantage of knowing the marketplace, predicting our risk, and allocating risk appropriately along the loan spectrum.

I think that's one of our biggest advantages relative to these big conglomerates. Well, if you stay on it. You know. Just going back to your GE example, one of the spinoffs was Synchrony Bank, which they probably should have kept, and you know Care Credit is you know owned by Synchrony Bank. When you look at those particular credit cards, you're looking at 60 percent of the business for vets, medical, dental - it's run through Dental in that particular space. They own 90 percent of the market. Yeah. It's and a lot of the dentists hate them. So, you know, there's a white space for the credit union. Why is why is the dental industry handing that over to Synchrony Bank and Care Credit, when now they wouldn't have to.

And you know with that being said a lot of the associations and private communities in the dental space promote one or two companies per. Product solution we'll call it, I want to be as vague as I possibly can. And we believe in having an open competitive platform. So when we've been talking to some of these state bodies and larger bodies it's that's our argument is we're not wanting an exclusivity deal. We may or may not be the best thing, and we can't guarantee rates because we're not chartered yet, but I think the most important thing that we can do and advocate for is an open market competition. You know when you're embedded within the dental societies and organizations, they have one or two preferred vendors. There's no guarantee that that's the most competitive rate.

They just bought a marketing ad. We just want the opportunity to compete with the big boys, and the market is going to take care of itself, as it is. I can't believe we went well over an hour. Final question. The majority of our listeners are still in dental kindergarten school. Send me an email. Howard at Dentaltown.com. Tell me how old you are, what country you live in, but how will this benefit dental students? It won't benefit the students that are in school. Another hang up we had with the NCUA is that dental students aren't technically in the profession yet. Now we do have plenty of workarounds for when we do get chartered to have that reevaluated and that's a legal process which we're willing to do.

Or we do have a few backdoor solutions with the foundation but the second they get their diploma and walk off the left side. They can join right from their seat as they're waiting for everyone else to grab their diploma. Right, and there are ways within the industry that we could get them on boarded into the credit union before they graduate. So we know those ways and so we would take advantage of that. And you were talking about you know being focused I think that's you know everybody tries to be all things to all people and these consolidators they get so big they can't hold on to them. They can't hold on to anything, and being small and focused and private but the opposite of that is why I love the Green Bay Packers because it's the only publicly held nonprofit corporation that owns the Green Bay Packers.

If it wasn't for the Packers being the only publicly owned franchise in the NFL, we wouldn't have any NFL data. You would know their revenue; you would know their advertising; it would be the biggest secret club. It would just be a total secret, but thank God for Green Bay, because curious minds like me when I'm watching the Cowboys 6 and 6 versus the Bears tonight 6 and 6. It's a much more interesting game because of Green Bay. I'm glad you brought that up when we've been having early education discussions with a lot of the corporate partners and other industries that we've been working with. We've used the NFL as an example, up until a couple years ago they were a big nonprofit, legally a couple years back they did change that because of bad press.

But that's how we would say this think of the credit union as a giant nonprofit, nonprofit doesn't mean not profitable, it's just how do you distribute the profits and we think keeping the profits within the community is the best thing for us, just like the NFL does. The NFL used to take all their profits, put them in a bucket and distribute against the 32 teams equally, that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to take all the outside revenue that you work very hard to generate up to $140 billion dollars a year and if we can keep that within the NFL. Framework or our credit union framework the profits go back to the dentist the hygienist the retired persons who's ever a member so with you know that was our motto and why they were still a last thing that that thread on Dentaltown he called it what did he he said he called it National Digital Dental Credit Union.

National Digital Dental Credit Union you want me to leave that as a title or do you want me to edit it to American Dental Federal Credit Union? It's American Dental Federal Credit Union proposed. We got to have the proposed in there. So American Dental Credit Union comma proposed? That's fine, and you know I think you know Ken made a very good point, and that's the very last point that I wanted to make is that you can see when you add it all up at the end of the day. There's tens of millions of dollars that the industry will save and just put in back into their their back pocket instead of somebody else's this is big, big money. And is David Frank is he involved with you guys too out of Salt Lake?

I don't know David. No, his name has never came up if you want to introduce us we would love that. I'll tell you what it's a problem I have where you know there's a quarter million dentists on Dentaltown and people don't use middle initials. And my goodness, people send me emails all the time saying, 'You know I'm David Frank, it's like yeah, you and nine other people you know.' But dentistry, I mean, there's a there's a 211,000 Americans licensed to practice dentistry today in America, and there's 2 million around the world. And my goodness, if you're out there in dentistry and you're trying to I see it with SEO like I, someone will send me an email, I'll Google their name, they just give me first and last name, and there'll be three dentists.

And one's from Salt Lake. One's from California, one's from New Jersey, and one's from Ireland it's like but anyway so I'll edit that for you but I hope you guys get on there and start talking all things credit Ian because they obviously they obviously know more about root canals fillings and crowns but thank you so much for coming on the show today tell Mark Costas and tell tell Mark Costas, Chris Salerno, Margaret Scarlett I'm this is very exciting and I wish them the best of luck and let me know moving forward if there's anything I can help you do with your mission. Thank you that's great. Thank you doctor. Appreciate it. Alright have a great day.
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