|
Howard Farran:
|
Today we're in Singapore and I thought this would just be a magical podcast for me because number Ryan and I have never actually gone to a dental office before. We usually do these over Skype or at dental meetings. When I heard that you and you're name is ...
|
|
Johhny Lee:
|
Johhny Lee.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Johhny, but I guess the book said Johhny P. Lee.
|
|
Johhny Lee:
|
[inaudible 00:00:31]
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Oh J.P oh that's [inaudible 00:00:32], okay. When I head that Johhny Lee ... and you met your wife in dental school.
|
|
Johhny Lee:
|
Yes.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Hinly Lau.
|
|
Johhny Lee:
|
Hinly Lau.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Hinly Lau and you guys have been practicing dentistry how long?
|
|
Johhny Lee:
|
Since 1973.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Since 1973.
|
|
Johhny Lee:
|
'73 yes.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Then you had a son Darren Lee and like his dad he met a beautiful dentist in dental school in Brisbane, Australia, Clare Chen and you guys all work together and you live together in a nuclear family which we call it. I just think it's an amazing story. Then you are a prolific author. You've written Dusk to Dawn, Laugh Laugh Laugh, Breaking The Curse of The Green Dragon, Curse of The Green Dragon, On The Road, God in The Mist. I thought we could probably do the whole interview on just your books and I'm prepared to stay all day to cover all these books. Congratulations on just an amazing dental office, dental family, nuclear family.
|
|
Johhny Lee:
|
Thank you. Thank you Howard. Well to begin with dentistry was tough, was quite hard work we started quite humbly in the government service. I was a Colombo Plan Scholar, after graduation I have actually to serve my bond. I need to go back to a place called Sarawak it's East Malaysia where I was sent to Singapore to study dentistry. Of course we got married and my wife went with me to Sarawak in Kuching to work. After that we decided to come back to Singapore for one year and then we started off in a government service. My wife was in a teaching hospital in the government too. Then I left and I go into practice as early as 1975.
|
|
|
I started then after that I started my own practice in 1977. Then when my wife joined me in 1980 then we started from there. It was good, dentistry was good. It helped us a lot in building our family, our house. I had two children by the time I was ... In 1985 my second son came along though to put it honestly I felt I had everything. I felt I had completed everything. I have a nice big house, I have cars and I have children and I'm working happily but for me I felt something was missing in my life. I had everything but deep inside me I felt I have nothing so of course I went in search of that something.
|
|
|
Then I took up a lot of things, recreation and I took up jogging and I ran the marathon and all that kind of things. I even took up dancing. I told my wife, "Let's go dancing." I think we work so hard we failed to enjoy ourselves. To put the long story short in the end in 1988 during Chinese New Year I went for a jog as usual and it just came clear to me that I knew I was missing in my life. I could actually see my life clearly like watching a television. I saw the things I've done in life. Some of them are good, some are not pretty good. I see all the mistakes and the wrongs I've done and I never realized that they were wrong.
|
|
|
The beautiful thing is I felt sorry for them. I felt truly sorry and I must admit it I wept while I was jogging on a public road somewhere beside a drain. I couldn't control myself. I actually sat down on the floor and on the ground, I just cried and cried. There were other joggers passing by they thought I was mad or crazy. Anyway, to cut it short that was the turning point. I started searching. I said, "I knew what's wrong. All the things that are inside me, the answers are all inside me." In the process I was a [inaudible 00:05:00] Catholic but lapse and then the first thing I did was I went to look for spiritual guidance.
|
|
|
I met a priest who helped me. Then I take leave and vacation in search. When anyone search for something they usually they know what they're searching for. That you're looking for a product, you're looking for a place, you might even be looking for a certain specific particular person but I was searching but I don't know what I was searching for. I was just searching. Then it was quite long before I finally realized that I was actually searching for myself and in the process I found myself. That was I will say the turning point in my life and I started attending religious retreats.
|
|
|
I went to a monastery in England off Wales where I stayed for one full month on what they call the silence spiritual exercises of St. Ignatius. After that I began to write about my experience, what I found and how blessed I was and what life meant for me, what is the real meaning and purpose in my life. I started off with a book called Dusk to Dawn. Dusk to Dawn essentially is like me entering into the darkness not knowing what I'm going in for. It was frightening at first because it's dark. Dark physically and dark in the sense that I know nothing.
|
|
|
It's actually about my search that gave me hope and perseverance. Then in the end yes there was light. Light came and I call it dawn. Dawn means although it's light and bright and morning it also means knowledge. I suddenly knew what it was I had to look for and what I have to do through my contact and how do I tie in my life with my work in dentistry. Then my attitude towards my work towards my patient changed very drastically. I was no longer there just for a job, do the business, treat the patients, earn some money. No longer there. I started to treat the person.
|
|
|
I started getting interested in people, start talking to them and then they start telling me about their problems, what difficulties they have, their financial difficulties. Their problems at home, their problems with their breakup with the family, wife, lovers, whatever. Somehow I as able to give some little advice here and there but things that I said that I can't remember all the things I've said but surprisingly it helped these people. I didn't know it. I didn't know it helped them because later on when they came for a second visit, whatever they told me about it.
|
|
|
They said what you said was very prophetic, it meant a lot to me, thank you very much. Then that's how I saw what are the things I do beside just dentistry. I was full-time dentistry, I still I'm so somehow I have this calling and I have the energy to just write my books late into the nights or on weekends or whatever time I can find. Now I do make time for all these things, previously I just do it at night and there's this active, loving energy that just drives me on. I can just do it. I still come back to work. It is really a very ... How should I put it?
|
|
|
I experienced what I would say a great gentleness, something that's very gentle so sometime when I do things I experience that I'm being ordered, I'm being forced in a way to say, "You do this, you must do that." No, this is not, this is something that is not persuasive but just stay with me gently. Telling me like when you're ready you do this, you do that and they all came to be. The books, all the books I have written are about my experiences and they are all about my own personal experiences except these two books. I started off with Curse of The Green Dragon.
|
|
|
It is a novel and I remember things my mother used to tell me when I was a kid about Hakkas. We are a dialect group called Hakkas. They are actually like gypsies of China. They are the people, they're a migratory race. They move and they move and they move. I asked my mom, I said, "Those things you told me were they just stories or they're fairy tales or what?" Said, "No, they're true. It's our culture, it's our tradition." I went to research, I went to look for it then I found an answer. I've been writing books about God, about scriptures, about Jesus Christ and love and conversion and all that.
|
|
|
I realized that I need to the other people who are non-Christians. I want them to know about love, about the sufferings people have. About the presence of evil and what not. I said why not? I write it in a story. I don't have to talk about God, I don't need to mention scriptures but it's all in there because it's all about struggle. It's about love, it's about the trauma in life, it's about deceit, it's about broken promises. This is about failures and it's about reconciliation. It's about discovery and rediscovery and so I wrote in a story and it was very well taken because a lot of television ... Sorry.
|
|
|
Radio channels, three radio channels pick up my story, they read my book and I was interviewed on them. Of course I started by talking factual things like the Hakkas, the migration and the story behind that because in my book I actually talk about Hakka families. Those are fictitious of course I created the characters and then I mix facts with fiction. For example there are a lot of periods and actual dates of events, people and even political situation and even what I call disasters like the eruptions of Krakatoa. You remember the volcanic eruption. I actually just throw my characters inside there.
|
|
|
They play out the scene, what happened, how they survived, how they what not. How the family actually started off in a very sad and a solemn way and how they suffered. Then eventually all their blaming mistakes, they made a lot of mistakes. The theme of my book actually is the inheritance of sin. We inherit a lot of things, we can inherit wealth, we can inherit genes and what not. We also inherit spiritual genes like the bad things in our life, the curses and things. I actually wrote about that, about this thing of the family, how it was passed down and then in those old days these Hakkas because they live in the jungle because they're migratory people.
|
|
|
When they reach a new town they are considered as foreigners, they're visitors. Hakkas means family home so they're actually visitors. They don't belong to that province in China but they come as guests and they come as a family so Hakka means guest family. My story went on that these people were always on the run on a migratory and how their migratory process and how they are different from the other Chinese. For example the woman can have feet bound because if they have small feet they can work in the farms. The woman in a family look after the farms and they raise the children.
|
|
|
They do the cooking and all that. They actually work very hard. There were other Chinese dialect groups that thinks that Chinese Hakkas families, in Hakka family the man bullies the wives and make them work. It's not true. The fact as I researched was because the men have to protect their race because they were always being persecuted and hunted. They're always looking for new routes to migrate. They build round buildings. Their houses are round. They're different from others because it's like a fortress because people invade them and try to chase them out.
|
|
|
Get out of our place, get out we don't want you here, because they're a different breed, they eat different things. They have different belief. Their belief and their traditions were original. It's passed down from the very beginning whereas the other Chinese compromise with the people who conquer the land. Even their religion, everything changed because they were fearful of the conquerors. Hakkas are not, they're not afraid. If can't solve the problem I run. I'm not going to stay here and follow your rules and live a life that is not our Chinese way of life.
|
|
|
That's why you find Hakkas all over the world, in America, a lot in England. The first group that went, a lot went to Manchester because then they need machines, they need people to dig they were building railroads, when railroads started in America a lot of Hakkas went there. Those are all Hakkas because they're a migratory group. This is interesting because they actually have migration in the blood. Let's say you have a company of all Chinese in one company. Then the directors or president need somebody, "I need a volunteer you need to go to somewhere. Maybe somewhere in a jungle somewhere far away there's a job I want you to go."
|
|
|
These Hakkas will be the one who volunteer because it's in their blood. They're not afraid to travel, they're not afraid to go to unknown place or unknown territory. That is factual. Although there are a lot more I can tell you but I don't think you're interviewing me for this but you can find all in my book. I have got a website you can actually look into it. You can buy these books on Amazon, these two books. These two fiction ... I mean not fiction, sorry, novels. They're [inaudible 00:15:21] novels of five generations. This book was so well taken I have to write a sequel, this is the sequel to the book.
|
|
|
It may not be [inaudible 00:15:33] which book you read first. It doesn't matter, it's like Star Wars. If you read this book you're reading what happened now, so you read a book you're going back to the history. How did it start? Who are all these characters that he's talking about, no difference but it be good to read this book because there's a certain type of mystery that I'd thrown in a little bit.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Tell us about this book.
|
|
Johhny Lee:
|
This book is only about more or less the president what happened now. He was born and then in Sarawak and how he grew up and he came to Singapore. He actually interacted with Lee Kuan Yew his father, this is fiction. I mention it's all fiction. Any interaction between my characters and actual people are fictitious. It's just something that I write because I wanted to create a drama, I wanted to create a sense of ... What do you call it? Realism. Some reality because it's associated with an actual event, an actual person but the stories are actually fictitious, they're not true. That's how I wrote the book.
|
|
|
Radio station pick it up quite a lot and the newspapers pick up, Straits Times pick up. The newspaper in my country in Sarawak pick up the story, they gave me the blurb to write. Malaysia The Star pick up. Sarawak is the Sarawak Tribune, Singapore was the Straits Times. All these books have got quite great testimonies on them and that is why they can sell quite well. These are all religious books, they're spiritual, they're personal. This is about my trip to Spain. We were supposed to go for a holiday and then we wanted to go to Fatima for the October 15th celebration of ... I think you know the story about Fatima and the miracles that take place there.
|
|
|
This book is about my journey and the spiritual experience I have. I decided to share it so that pilgrims who go there will not just go there for a holiday but go there and find yourself. Go there and find peace, find God and learn to accept and love people as they are. The most beautiful thing that I found out about myself is in the end I discovered all my faults and failures but the beautiful thing was I could laugh at myself. I wasn't angry or disappointed. I could laugh and say, "Oh dear no wonder, no I can accept other people like they are." That's who you are and you just need to find it and find yourself.
|
|
|
That how I've been living my life and I'm still writing. I have a lot of things written, I save them in my computer. Most of them are things that people share with me, some of them are my patients, a lot of them are actually my friends or my pray group, people in my pray groups and all that. I write it and now I keep a record of it because those are real life true stories. In fact to write any future books I might use some of these materials to support what I want to tell.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Now Fatima is in Portugal, Lourdes is in ...
|
|
Johhny Lee:
|
In France.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
France.
|
|
Johhny Lee:
|
France. Yeah I went to France too. I covered three countries. I went to Spain from ... I think we started from Madrid and then we go to all those little towns around the place. This is actually a simple map of the places that I visited and each place. Some people saw it as a travel book because I give details of hotels, how much it cost and where you can get cheap rental for not only rooms but even cars and things like that and food. I found [inaudible 00:19:10] it's not expensive. We didn't book anything except in Fatima because there will be a lot of pilgrims there the hotels they will be full we booked that one in advance.
|
|
|
All the others we just went on and I will say we let God lead us. It's beautiful, that's why in the end I had to write a book about it because I'm also sharing how God plays a part and how I'm being blessed and being open. Being open is important to me. I said being open means I'm able to see and to see the sign post. Sometimes we pray, I pray I don't get answers then in the end I realize that I have to look for sign posts because God doesn't speak to me like we speak to one another. No, it's not like that. You have to look out for signs, either an event or even from a movie or hearing a story that someone is talking about or listening to music.
|
|
|
You know sometimes it come in a form of readings from the Sunday services we attend and it has meaning. I write all this down, I record it. Nowadays it's very easy because we have got mobiles and we can just put in all the things there. I save it there and I just retrieve it if I need to find it easy. Perhaps I should maybe slow down a bit, if you can see that I'm outpouring myself because it comes from within me so it's not difficult to share that. Maybe you might like to talk to the others or I will be happy to answer any questions you ask me.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Well you've covered all the books. You've covered this, you've got two more series to cover.
|
|
Johhny Lee:
|
This is interesting.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
You've written so many books you've forgotten how many you wrote.
|
|
Johhny Lee:
|
You've notices I don't use J.P. Lee anymore, I changed to [inaudible 00:20:56] because this is to compare different genre. This happen a time when we have terrible SARS in Singapore. Then I felt very sad because Tan Tock Seng Hospital is just behind us, just nearby. When I read in the papers that people, taxis, transport company are trying to avoid the nurses because all the SARS patients are being quarantined at Tan Tock Seng Hospital for ...
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Refresh them about SARS. What was SARS? What year was that?
|
|
Johhny Lee:
|
2003 or 4, around there.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Was it a virus is a bacteria?
|
|
Johhny Lee:
|
It was a virus, SARS is a ...
|
|
Hinly Lau:
|
It's a respiratory virus it killed people. Actually around this area ... It was a respiratory disease that killed people and in Singapore there was a number succumb to the sickness. During that time I think it's more in our Asian country because it seemed that some of them had traveled to the Middle East, they carried the disease back and it was a very, very sad time. It was a lot of deaths and Tan Tock Seng Hospital was just next door, it became the quarantine center. It was really the first time seeing [inaudible 00:22:34] such a disaster actually I will call it. He started writing this book to cheer people up.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Did it scare you at the time?
|
|
Hinly Lau:
|
Yes it was scary.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
[crosstalk 00:22:46] by breathing.
|
|
Hinly Lau:
|
Yes. We had to stop our clinic and to close our clinic.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
For how long?
|
|
Hinly Lau:
|
For I think about a few weeks to a month. People were just not coming, we turn patient away and temperature has to be taken and we have to wear all the protective gears and a lot of things. That's where Singapore started to have ... was compulsory. Compulsory you have all protection. Even tourists coming in through the airport through all the centers they have to be monitored. There were all temperature taken. There's some monitoring through the airports. Yeah, that was a bad time.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
How many people ended up drying?
|
|
Hinly Lau:
|
I think in Singapore about 30 ...
|
|
Johhny Lee:
|
About 300 to 500 maybe less but it is scary. Could be more I can't remember.
|
|
Hinly Lau:
|
No in Singapore not that many, Singapore was 100 plus. Over Hong Kong was the worst.
|
|
Johhny Lee:
|
Yeah.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
How many in Hong Kong?
|
|
Hinly Lau:
|
I can't remember it was very bad.
|
|
Johhny Lee:
|
It really killed you. I remember now it's called Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome. It's just go into you lung and everything just dissolve off. The bacteria will just attack ... I mean the virus and the person will just die. You develop high fever, you can't breathe.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
I want to touch on when I go around the world whether it be India or United States or Brazil about a third of the dentists have a dentist in their family tree, a mom, a dad, uncle. I've been in homes in India and Brazil where there were 25 dentists in their family tree. A lot of these places have the nuclear family like you guys work together, you live together. I've been in India and Brazil where 25 dentists literally live together and worked together. You're talking to a lot of young kinds in dental school. They're dating a dentist in their class.
|
|
|
They're going to get married and maybe between those two dentists maybe their dads or moms a dentist. What advice would you give because you guys have been doing this ... I don't want to give away your age but you guys have been doing this for a while. What advice would you give for families to work together, live together? How do you all get along?
|
|
Hinly Lau:
|
We get along very well but we make it a point sometime over dinner we will talk about our daily encounters with patients. We'll discuss on enlightening each other with the treatment because different people have different approaches and of course at work we think for each other. It becomes very close knitted family. Sure, say.
|
|
Johhny Lee:
|
Also we give encouragement, sometimes when we have difficulties or what not instead of giving up we give encouragement in what I will call perseverance in a lot of things. In my books I talk about that. That's also the reason why I start writing books because I collect materials from people. I interview them too sometimes if I need to and my books are ... you can call it self-help or self-improvement things written in different ways. The book Laugh Laugh Laugh is a humorous book. It's not just one or it's not just labeled from number 1 to number 100.
|
|
|
No, it's a story. It was written in a form of a story so that you just read on one after another and it's also a little bit of a satire.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Was this your last series?
|
|
Johhny Lee:
|
This was one later on. I realized that ...
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Was this the last?
|
|
Johhny Lee:
|
This is the last series yes, I decide to write ...
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
God in the Mist, God in the Mist 2, God in the Mist 3. Talk about these three book series.
|
|
Johhny Lee:
|
Yes. This one actually came because I got some feedback, some of my regular readers. They told me that your books are interesting but they're very long. A lot of stories in there and we got to read a lot and then they're a lot like [inaudible 00:27:25] plots. We really have to have time to read them but the materials are actually very good and a lot of them are actually quite self-helping. After that I gather I said, "Why don't I just tell one or two things and I make it easier for people to read." I came up with smaller books and basically my topic is searching as I said earlier. [inaudible 00:27:53] you're searching for God.
|
|
|
If I can't find God it means that God is hidden. He is not hiding but he is hidden by me somehow. There are things I do not want to see and so my God is like hidden somewhere behind a curtain. Later on I found a word, God is in the mist, I can't see him he's there. I need to go into the mist and search for God and it will become like an exploration. You have to throw yourself into the wind and go kind of things like that and without any expectations, without knowledge or what you're looking for. Just go. I found out the first one was very well taken so much so until I have to reprint another set and I did a second edition.
|
|
|
After that I started writing God in the Mist 2 which covers more on prayer. Prayer and how to trust God. Inside I also mention something about some miracles that happened, the power of prayer. This is more about ... It's called harnessing the win. How we can make use of everything that is within us even our anger, our frustration or what not. How do you change it into something good? Just like you would change or transform a raging waterfall into driving electricity. Turn into something that helps you, something that is good. Of course I'm talking about spiritual transformation.
|
|
|
Your anger inside, your hatred or what not, how you transform it into something useful for yourself and even for others. How to grow that [inaudible 00:29:38] all of that. This is my latest book.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Well I hope you get on Dentaltown where you can post a picture of that book and a link to where to buy it on Amazon. You could tell the 210,000 dentists about your book. I think a lot would help that. I want to ask you specifically, when you watch dentists on Dentaltown a lot of dentists suffer from burnout, depression. In the United States about 18% of dentists sometime in their career will be treated in a hospital for alcohol. They have a high suicide rate, what tips do you think you can give them to avoid burnout, depression, alcoholism, suicide? Because you've been practicing this ... How many years have you been practicing? 40?
|
|
Johhny Lee:
|
Since '73 that make this how many years? 43 years.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
You two have been doing this 43 years?
|
|
Johhny Lee:
|
Yeah.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
What advice would you give to some young dentists listening to you now who's burned out? When he goes home he has to drink alcohol, pass out.
|
|
Johhny Lee:
|
Very good question.
|
|
Hinly Lau:
|
I had a burnout in I think about 10 ... Let me see, about 15 years ago. There was a time I felt that I just wanted to give up dentistry because all the time we thinking I'm thinking money, meeting patient. Dental patients are not pleasant when they come in it's always painful. I was dealing with patients who were so scared of you, who were fearful first would say, "I'm so frightened and not sit on this chair. I'm very frightened." That really put you like a little bit it's a turn off. At what angle am I coming in to treat this particular patient? All the time I was so ... Did not handle the situation well enough and at the same time at the back of your mind I want to make money.
|
|
|
I want to buy this, I want to buy that. I want to travel but of course the money is from the patient. In the end when he went away to [inaudible 00:31:53] I was alone at home and it so happen it was during the Good Friday season. I said, "Okay, I will just place myself in front of the crucifix and just do my meditation." The beautiful things he reveal to me was just a simple word, love. The word just appeared on the crucifix, love, so sudden that changed my concept and why I'm treating patients. Not for the money but to give and channel love to the patient.
|
|
|
From within me I don't bother about the money making, God will take care of it, whatever you need. Subsequently after that I enjoyed all my patient, enjoy my days at my dental work because I just flow with the patient. I see the patients coming in as somebody who's needing love and I give myself to the patient so that in the end I find I enjoy my work, really I enjoyed it. Seeing different patient coming in they're different people. At the time when I burnt out I wanted to give up dentistry. I even when to the university to gather curriculums to do psychology and philosophy but the thought of going through exam every year that put me off.
|
|
|
When this turnaround I've enjoyed dentistry, enjoy my patient ever since. Even though at the time ... There was about three years ago I was working only three days a week. I come back to work and I still enjoy my ... Even though [inaudible 00:33:51] a week I still find it's good time and I spend time with my patients. It was a real burn out, I just wanted to give up everything. [crosstalk 00:34:02]. Just I think to treat patient not just thinking of the money, what you can achieve but it's the love that you can give and it's the care. Treating the patient holistically not just the mouth and teeth but as a person.
|
|
|
That where I put myself and I enjoyed dentistry and the burnout just disappeared. I enjoy it. We come every day, I'm going in to see my patient and I use a good ... it's going to be a good day.
|
|
Johhny Lee:
|
Very good. Basically what I want to say is I agree everything with what my wife has done and I have learned as well a lot from her because she's got more depth into this thing about caring and loving like a mother. Basically for myself what I do is I acknowledge that problems are always there not just at work with patients. No, but sometime with people outside anywhere. They can be rude to you, they can say bad things about you, they can curse you and all that. We get this [inaudible 00:35:18] by people but then again we have to live with people. They're there. You can't get rid of them.
|
|
|
I learn one thing. One thing that I learn is I have to not let this thing affect me by doing some breath work because many a times especially in the Chinese culture we were always brought up telling us don't be too busy body. Don't worry about other people, let them say what they want. Don't care. Let's forget about it and then turn your attention to something else. We learned we're supposed to teach up to be polite and not to be rude but sometimes there are things that you cannot just ignore. For example if you read my books you'll realize that I put a lot of emphasis on telling the truth.
|
|
|
Like if somebody accuse you wrongly I cannot just ignore it. I have to tell him, "No, no, no, you're wring, you're wrong. That's not the way it is. It didn't happen like this but I need to deal with it." For me in my books when I wrote about this thing I call it arresting the problem just as a policeman would arrest a criminal who have ran into a building and hide. If you know who that criminal is if you have a photograph you can identify him. The breathing process helped me to be conscious. How does it helped? Two ways, because we need to breath to stay alive number one.
|
|
|
Secondly, scripturally also we know our breath is the breath of God, is the spirit of God. Our breath, the oxygen we have is free, is given to us freely. When I breath consciously if I do it often enough and deep enough I will know because sometimes the worst thing is when you have a problem and you don't know what it is. You've got to find out where is it and where does it come from. It is there, it is inside you. By breathing consciously I became aware, I said, "Ooh yes this is the problem is this guy. He had done this to me, he has said this, I as trying to mask it by covering up."
|
|
|
When I become conscious I breath in and then I will hold my breath. Holding my breath is important. It helped me to identify and name that particular problem. I hold my breath for about three to seven seconds and once I acknowledge that what do I do? Just like any rubbish you have to throw it. You don't keep rubbish in the house. You sweep them around, you put them in your rubbish bin and then what do you do? You don't keep it there you're going to throw it somewhere. By breathing out I'm actually throwing away. That's how I bring myself back and heal myself.
|
|
|
By then I will have clarity, I will know tomorrow I've got to talk to this guy. Say for example if it's regarding something that he has said which is not true. You know because I don't want to keep it because now I already know what it is. I'm at peace with myself, I'm at peace with God, I have to be at peace with the other guy too. It goes around like that. Basically this is how I deal with my problems, I do that and I do it every day. I do it every day usually at night so that I have a good night sleep. When I wake up I'm ready. Let's go again. I try not to carry it to sleep.
|
|
|
Then you probably forget it and it's very hard to retrieve, any psychologist will tell you that. That's why I would ... My priest taught me that and we have done some work together. Some priest ... We call it the healing of memories. Sometimes we forget things and then we're in trouble because anything like I said external can trigger off that thing and you behave or act in a manner that in the end you say, "What the hell did I do? What have I done?" Because you don't know what you have done and you don't know why you do it because you didn't know what caused it.
|
|
|
I don't know whether you understand what I mean in this ... It took me a long way to explain it but there are probably other easier way. That's how I work with it and it's very important that I and people understand what this is all about so that we can find healing. That's how I deal with my daily problems. It works for me. I'm not saying that it will work for everybody but it works for me and my friend always say, "Oh you're very daring. You're not afraid." I say, "Put it this way I learned something in my retreat when I went for the silent retreat in St. Beuno's." That is in Wales in off England.
|
|
|
I learned one thing that you have to be in a silence, you have to keep still. Then I have this imaginary thing that came to my mind where I was taught that one fine day ... Something about fear. Why am I so scared and afraid to do this? Then I thought the only person who can help me I felt at that time was God. Then I came out with a story that I heard somewhat similar but I wrote it in my book because it helped me. I was thinking of a story where like for example there was one day when God was so busy with so many people coming to him for help. Then he said, "I think I better go and take a holiday and rest."
|
|
|
He assemble his counselors from [inaudible 00:40:30] and said, "What do you propose?" This first chap said, "Oh you should go deep down the ocean bed it's very cold, it's very deep inside nobody will go there. They will never find you there." God said, "No, these human beings they're so good they will dig into the depths of it they will find me." The second chap said, "Perhaps you should go to the far side of the moon. It's so far away and so dark no one will go there and look for you." He said, "What are you talking about? The man has already conquered the moon. They're such great explorers outside everywhere.
|
|
|
No, they will find me." It took such an old man who stood up, "Lord I know where is the perfect place. Hide in the human heart." He said, "Why?" "Because they're so scared to enter into themselves. They will never find you." I wrote this story so it works for me. I find that my answers are all inside here. It is in me, everything is me, every problem is mine and I have to find it inside where God dwells. That is the truth and only God is truth. The way I handle and live my life a lot of it is actually very spiritual because I found someone that actually cares and help me.
|
|
|
That is why I'm sharing it because this is my testimony that we need divine intervention. We do everything obediently. If you're sick go and see the doctor, get diagnosed, get the treatment, do it, cooperate with the doctors. Then the other things that the doctors can't do we pray because God will only help you when you cannot help yourself. If you can fix the bicycle he's not going to fix for you so you do it. If you don't want to do it because you're lazy it's not God's fault. That's my belief and actually I endorse that. What you can do by yourself do it.
|
|
|
What you cannot do, what you can't help you have to leave it to the divine. That's when your faith ... I will say my faith all right? I don't want to sound too preachy. That's when my faith comes in because I say, "Okay Lord I've done everything, it's now your turn." It works, it works for me. [inaudible 00:42:49] and that is my testimony. We're talking about dentistry then but my dentistry is nothing without him. I will be doing a lot of things which may not be correct, which may not be in the right attitude, which may not be full but God will help me. He say, "Do this, do this, do this. Don't make shortcut, don't compromise, don't do this."
|
|
|
Because when I became aware of the divine I also become more sensitive to errors. I'm very sensitive to mistakes. No, this is not right, I can't do this. Sometimes it's already done but it's very strange. God will give you another opportunity, that same patient will come back say, "Doctor you did the pain is terrible." Then you look at it, oh dear I did not do it properly, let's do it again. In a way I will say sometimes I'm given a second chance to redeem myself. All this has to come from the truth in your heart. I can just bury and say, "Let's hope for the best.
|
|
|
It doesn't matter." It doesn't work for me anymore that way, I have to make it right.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Darren I want to ask you and Clare a question. Lots of fans of the podcast are dental students and when they graduate they're going to go work with mom and dad. I was wondering what advice do you give to young dentists? What issues do they see? They say things in dental school like well what do you do if you come out and your dental school taught you lateral condensation and your dad uses [inaudible 00:44:21]? What issues ... You guys have been working with your mom and dad for what? A decade? How many years?
|
|
Darren Lee:
|
I graduated in '02, I came back in '04 so it's about 12 years now.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Tell me what advice would you give these kids who are going to leave dental school and then they want to work with their parents and you and Clare are married. You met in dental school, you married after dental school and now you've worked with your parents for a decade.
|
|
Darren Lee:
|
I think we do have a bit of certain differences in the way we practice but assuming you're working with your parents or your family, someone in the family, I think what's important is always discussion. If they like to do things like what you say maybe like lateral condensation or now we're actually using warm condensation so how it works and why it works. Describe it and talk to them and discuss with your family. It's a lot different if you're working for a principal dentist, I think the relationship is a little bit different then.
|
|
|
If you're working with family I think it always works out well to discuss with them first and get everyone on the same page. I think in the end everything works out quite well. A lot of it comes to talking amongst yourselves and discussion. We're quite fortunate we are able to discuss at home because we live together. If not set a certain time each day when it comes to the running of the practice and things like that to actually talk about things that can be improved or new methods that you may have learnt and how it works. Get everyone to understand how it works.
|
|
|
It may not work all the time, you could be wrong and they will tell you, "No I think it should be done this way and this is why it should be done this way. Get everyone to brainstorm together and actually agree on something. That's when then everything will work out together rather than having very, very different practices in the same clinic. I think that makes it quite difficult if everyone is doing their own thing their own way and patients ask, "Why are you doing it this way and this person does it that way and you're in the same clinic?"
|
|
|
For a clinical setting it doesn't work as well so you do have to discuss amongst each other to let everyone be on the same page. It doesn't have to be the way you are doing it but it may be the way that someone else does it and what works best for the clinic at that point in time. I think that's probably the best thing that you can do if you're working as a family.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
What would you like to add Clare?
|
|
Clare Chen:
|
I think there are different ways to solve a problem so always keep an open mind and just listen to the recommendations from others. Dentistry itself the technology is always going to improve so continuing education, updating yourself all the time. That's what we do as well so that really helps. Of course whatever we learn in dental school sometimes it may not be even applicable now and that's talking about 10 years or so. You always have to update yourself on the latest knowledge, technology and things like that.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Do you guys like doing different stuff? Like does one person like kids? Does one like root canals? Does one like extractions? Do you divide or do you all do the same stuff?
|
|
Hinly Lau:
|
It's all the same stuff but ...
|
|
Clare Chen:
|
Almost all.
|
|
Darren Lee:
|
Almost.
|
|
Hinly Lau:
|
We're general practitioners but implant, I don't like implants so I refer my cases to him.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Are you the only one that does implants?
|
|
Darren Lee:
|
I do quite a bit of placement of implants but when it involves things like sinus lifts and things like that we do have a consultant, a specialist with is come in and do the work for us then.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
You have a specialist come in?
|
|
Darren Lee:
|
Yeah, we do get a specialist to come in to ...
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Does that work better than referring out to a specialist somewhere else? Is it ...
|
|
Darren Lee:
|
I think patients like it because they're comfortable with your clinical setting. If you have to get them to go to another clinic some patients may not like it because it's a totally new different clinic. They have to get used to first and foremost the clinic setting itself and the practitioner itself. Whereas if they were to do it in your clinic it kind of ... You remove one half of the things that the patient has to get used to. We've asked our patients and some cases we used to send out previously and patients always asked, "Why can't they come here? Why can't they do it here? Or why can't you do it?"
|
|
|
Then when we talked to patients like that we realized that they're actually very comfortable with you in the clinic but I think with the clinic setting as well.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
What specialists come in here?
|
|
Darren Lee:
|
Currently we only have an oral surgeon who comes in, two oral surgeons but generally only oral surgery now.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
How often do they come in?
|
|
Darren Lee:
|
About once a week on a fixed day but we are quite fortunate that she works quite nearby so she's able to come in on days that patients are unable to make it on a day that she's scheduled to be here. She can actually see if she can come down then.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Only oral surgery do you bring in.
|
|
Darren Lee:
|
Yeah.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Besides your mom not wanting to place implants other than that everyone divides up everything equally, kids [crosstalk 00:51:05]
|
|
Darren Lee:
|
I think we do ... I personally don't do things like braces, ortho on my side but I think ...
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Does anybody else?
|
|
Darren Lee:
|
My mom and Clare.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
That's right, you and your mother-in-law are the only two that do the ortho.
|
|
Clare Chen:
|
That's right.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Talk about that. What kind of ortho are you doing? When did you get into orthodontics?
|
|
Hinly Lau:
|
I did it when I first came back from Kuching from Sarawak. I joined a government service. They asked me what further study do want too. I said, "All right I'm only thinking of at the moment." I said, "Okay, orthodontics." It so happened that when about to ... I was trying to go through all my basic that I've learned in my undergrad [inaudible 00:52:02] anatomy, physiology. I was doing it on my own trying to recap fresh myself up. I was having Darren and now and then whenever I opened a book and there he was climbing on top, "Mommy I want to sit with you."
|
|
|
I couldn't bring myself to study and I felt also because he was very young then. He was only about one plus or two, looking at him and coming back home from late night diners and saw him clutching my slippers, clutching my house coat just to get himself to sleep. I said, "How can I go away for two years leaving him alone like this?" I forgot the idea of doing specializing in orthodontics but as time goes on I found myself being drawn to seeing people with crooked teeth because basically I like aesthetics. I even thought of at a time opening a boutique, helping people in Singapore to dress.
|
|
|
I look at people with crooked and say, "No that doesn't look very aesthetic." I say, "I would like to help people to make them look pretty." Whenever there are courses on I will attend and I will ... I enjoyed it seeing a patient getting prettier and prettier having their teeth straightened out. I enjoy it. Even though I like to do orthodontics but I like to do general dentistry because I find it less boring just to look into the mouth everyday why is it? Why is it? Why is ... I do other things. I like challenges especially a root canal unless I really can't do it then I'll refer out.
|
|
|
If I can I'll do what I can and I enjoy the challenge. I will say I'm more a general practitioner but I just don't like handling OS, oral surgery, but I do think I do things like surgical extraction if it is feasible for me within my scope I will do it. Even apisectomy I will do it but not implant because I hate to see people in pain because I feel it. My heart feel it when I do a cut. When I do oral surgery like a surgical removal I should brace myself up, no it's for the patient. I shouldn't feel it. I put a screen in front of me that no I don't feel the pain. I don't feel it.
|
|
|
Because [inaudible 00:54:51] got to do for let's say my mother or even my father at time any extraction I have to brace myself. It was very, very stressful because I feel the pain. This is just how I started orthodontics because I like people to look nice.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
What about you Clare, when did you get into orthodontics?
|
|
Clare Chen:
|
Almost 10 years I will say.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
10 years?
|
|
Clare Chen:
|
Yeah, right about 10 years, right.
|
|
Hinly Lau:
|
Since you started.
|
|
Clare Chen:
|
Yeah, since I started.
|
|
Hinly Lau:
|
Me about 30/40 years.
|
|
Darren Lee:
|
About 10 years.
|
|
Clare Chen:
|
I've always been interested in this particular field of work back in university days. I finally got a chance to do one of those continuing education courses.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Which one did you do?
|
|
Clare Chen:
|
Progressive.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Is that POS?
|
|
Clare Chen:
|
Yes.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
POS?
|
|
Clare Chen:
|
That's right, from US
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Did they teach all over the world, don't they?
|
|
Clare Chen:
|
That's right.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
What is it? POS or is it posortho.com or ...
|
|
Clare Chen:
|
Yes, progressive orthodontic seminars.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Progressiveorthodonticseminars.com?
|
|
Clare Chen:
|
Yes.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Okay.
|
|
Clare Chen:
|
Actually I'm not really sure about the website address but I think you google you should be able to find it.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
You went through that program.
|
|
Clare Chen:
|
Yes and then attending a few of the symposiums. They do have regular updates from ... There are many systems out there. I just go for all the updates and symposiums once or twice I think they do have it every year, yeah. I always go for that.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Are you doing more fixed braced or more removable clear aligners or is it more on children or it is more on adults? What's your ortho market like?
|
|
Clare Chen:
|
Here well particularly in our clinic I personally see more fixed braces for myself. I'm not sure about mom.
|
|
Hinly Lau:
|
I do a mixture.
|
|
Clare Chen:
|
A mixture.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Is it more fixed braces for children or more adults?
|
|
Hinly Lau:
|
More for children and adults no because the clear aligners they chose that. Sometime I weigh the pros and cons. Because it cost more to do clear aligners I will recommend then fixed braces is cheaper but if you really want clear aligners we go ahead with clear aligners
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Is that it?
|
|
Clare Chen:
|
That's right, I think so. Yes.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
It's posortho ...
|
|
Clare Chen:
|
That's right.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
.com, okay. We've talked about implants, we've talked about ortho, is there any technology that you guys have bought that you like? Is there anything like say lasers or CBCT or CAD/CAM or anything that you guys ...
|
|
Darren Lee:
|
Yeah, I think we currently do have a CBCT machine in the radiography room. Clare and I are actually also thinking about attending a certification course for laser within this year hopefully. There's one that's coming up but we can't attend it but I think there should be another one coming. I'm actually looking into ...
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Which laser and for what procedures?
|
|
Darren Lee:
|
The one that we saw the other time, soft ...
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
What would the laser be used for?
|
|
Darren Lee:
|
I think everything. They had soft tissue and hard tissue as well. There's the Zerona laser machine. I'm also looking into ... We're actually in the midst of thinking of getting a CAM scanner as well and eventually move into CAD/CAM machines and things like that in the near future. We are looking into it because there's actually a big symposium coming up in Singapore so we're going to tag on to that and see if we can get any ...
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
The one in April?
|
|
Darren Lee:
|
Yes. The one that you were here ... I think Dentaltown was here about two years back.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Two years. We have symposiums every other year.
|
|
Darren Lee:
|
Every two years, years.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Every two years.
|
|
Darren Lee:
|
Yes. Correct. The [inaudible 00:59:34] years. Technology wise I think we've set up the CBCT and we're looking to other avenues as well. Yes, we are.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
Well I think since your father has written so many books that it is not too much for me to ask him to write an article for Dentaltown. We have a magazine, it's 125 pages. It goes to all the 125,000 American dentists every month and then digitally it's sent all over the world. I was wondering if someday you might have the time to summarize all of these books into one article on advice for ... I think you're in a position in life where you said you're coming up on 70 years old. Most of the viewers here are coming out of dental school at about 25 years old. You have a little head start on them.
|
|
|
Like I said I think you have to get your mental health in line before you can focus on oral health. I think it'd be a neat article about how do you keep your head on straight and avoid burnout, depression, alcoholism? It's a tough job because if you have a restaurant everybody that comes in is happy to see you because they're going to eat food. Then when you have a dental office everyone that's come in is grouchy and in pain and feisty and upset and it beats on you. It wears you down. If you ever would grace us with an article on that for Dentaltown ... and I'm sure it would increase the number of sales of your books on Amazon.
|
|
|
I think you guys are an adorable family. I just think you guys are just amazing. Thank you for picking me up and taking me out for dinner the other night. Thank you for inviting me into your practice and just thank you for all that you've done for dentistry. Thank you very much.
|
|
Clare Chen:
|
Thank you.
|
|
Darren Lee:
|
Thank you.
|
|
Hinly Lau:
|
Thank you.
|
|
Johhny Lee:
|
Thank you.
|
|
Howard Farran:
|
This was just fantastic. Thank you very much.
|