Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
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879 Smiles Beyond the Bars with Linda Parker Smith : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

879 Smiles Beyond the Bars with Linda Parker Smith : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

11/7/2017 7:14:52 AM   |   Comments: 0   |   Views: 220

879 Smiles Beyond the Bars with Linda Parker Smith : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

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879 Smiles Beyond the Bars with Linda Parker Smith : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

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AUDIO - DUwHF #879 - Linda Parker Smith

Linda has been in the field of dentistry for over 30 years.  She has done everything you can do in a dental practice except be a dentist.  Dentistry in her blood and she totally loves the practice of dentistry.  After a career in dentistry, Linda had the opportunity to go to dental consulting school at Mercer Advisors.  Subsequently she opened her own dental consulting firm Dynamic Dental Consulting.  While visiting a prison ministry, Alongside Ministry, she saw many people covering their mouths to talk.  After asking one of the girls if she could see her teeth and examining her mouth she saw one of the worst mouths she had ever seen.   Periodontal disease, broken black teeth and no front teeth.  Linda’s heart was moved and after much prayer she decided she needed to help these people smile again.  She called a dentist that she had worked with, Dr Mark Peck, and asked him what he would think of helping ex-felons get a new lease on life and receive a renewed smile.  He said, “I like it send me one and we will see how it goes.” Mark’s office restored the mouth of one girl and was so excited they said, “We want to give confidence, and a new life to another person.”  

At that time, there was no name for this program.  The program started to grow just by word of mouth and began changing lives, One Smile at a Time. With much excitement for the program, Linda dissolved her consulting firm and took this project on full time.  She immediately obtained a 501c3 nonprofit designation and went to the Corporation Commission, formed a board of directors, and Smiles Beyond the Bars was formed. 

Linda was recently recognized by the Phoenix Business Journal, was named Woman of the Year by the Nation Association of Professional Woman, and will be recognized on the 20th of July by the Phoenix Rescue Mission for the number of people that Smiles has transformed for them.  Smiles has a recidivism rate of 0%.

Howard: It is just a huge honor for me today to have Linda Parker Smith come by the home today and do a podcast live. Linda has been in the field of dentistry for over 30 years. She has done everything you can do in a dental practice except be a dentist. Dentistry is in her blood and she totally loves the practice of dentistry. After a career in dentistry, Linda had the opportunity to go to dental consulting school at Mercer Advisors. Subsequently, she opened her own dental consulting firm, Dynamic Dental Consulting.

While visiting a prison ministry, Alongside Ministry, she saw that many people were covering their mouths to talk. After asking one of the girls if she could see her teeth and examining her mouth, she saw one of the worst mouths she'd ever seen: periodontal disease, broken, black teeth, no front teeth. Linda's heart was moved and after much prayer she decided she needed to help those people smile again. She called a dentist that she'd worked with, Dr. Mark Pack, he has been a friend of mine for 30 years, and asked him what he would think of helping ex-felons get a new lease on life and receive a renewed smile. He said, "I like it. Send me one and we'll see how it goes.” Mark's office restored the mouth of one girl and was so excited they said, "We want to give confidence and a new life to another person."

At that time there was no name to this program. The program started to grow just by word of mouth and began changing lives one smile at a time. With much excitement for the program, Linda dissolved her consulting firm and took this project on full time. She immediately obtained a 501 C3 non-profit designation and went to the corporation commission; formed a board of directors and ‘Smiles Beyond the Bars’ was formed.Linda was recently recognized by the Phoenix Business Journal, was named Woman of the Year by The National Association of Professional Women, and will be recognized on the 20th of July by Phoenix Rescue Mission for the number of people that Smiles has transformed for them. Smiles has a recidivism rate of 0 percent.

I want to start with -- I mean, that is so amazing, because you see these people always complaining about these mandatory sentencing terms, and they are in there five, ten, twenty years. But then the counterargument is always, "Well god, even after five, ten, twenty years, you let them out, 75 percent are back in within five.

Linda: Right. Oh yes.

Howard: And you have a zero percent recidivism rate.

Linda: That's true, Howard. And we attribute that -- I just had a meeting with the governor's office and they were blown away at the fact that we had a zero percent recidivism rate. The government, our state of Arizona, has spent millions of dollars on a transitional house where they can transition some people into this home, they can now give them counseling. But the piece that's missing in this is the teeth. It's the teeth. These people come out and, okay, they've been in prison, they go to a transitional house, but they have no job. They have no place to go after that transitional. What are we going to do to help them to be presentable? I've had people that have MBA degrees but their teeth are awful. They can't go get a job.

Howard: They were in prison with an MBA?

Linda: They were in prison.

Howard: White collar crime or drugs?

Linda: Drugs; trafficking drugs, and so their teeth were eaten. This one girl in particular. And we redid her mouth, we gave her a new smile, gave her confidence, and she's hired by a wonderful firm, she's doing a great job.

So when I talked to the governor, what it means to you and I -- and when I say to somebody, "Why should you give to Smiles Behind the Bars?" And, you say, you know, “Those people, they deserve bad teeth.” You know what? I'm saving you and me, and all you dentists out there, money. Because it costs $38,000 to put one person in prison in Arizona for one year.

Howard: That's just crazy.

Linda: Now, when you do the math, it's pretty darn simple, Howard. $38,000 times -- we've done over 200. We're doing 50 more. So just take the number 200 and you times that -- we have saved the people of Arizona 7.6 million dollars in incarceration fees. And those have gone -- that money has gone back into our community. So there's win/win. The incarcerated person wins because they have a mouth that's taken care of, they get their children back. Almost all of our children -- or almost all of our people get their children back. And we are all saving tax dollars. They're going back into the community rather than to pay for people to go back into incarceration.

Howard: What is the recidivism rate of Arizona?

Linda: The recidivism rate is about 80 percent. I just got a call from --

Howard: And in what period of time?

Linda: That was done approximately -- if I'm counting correctly, saying this, that was done in '98 or in 2006

Howard: No, I mean how long does it take for 80 percent to get back in? Two years, five years?

Linda: Not even two years.

Howard: Yeah. One of the other most interesting prison studies I read in The Economist is that Hurricane Katrina really wiped out New Orleans back in the day.

Linda: Right.

Howard: And so, all these people that were getting out of jail on time couldn't go back to their hood. So they end up having to go to other cities around Texas and Louisiana. So they were in a new group, new environment, and I think it cut the recidivism rate in half. And these criminologists are saying, "You can't let Harry out and then he goes back and moves in with his three buddies that are all doing the same drugs and all that, because he'll stand strong for a while but he's back in the same environment so he'll be back there." And lots of people who are talking criminology, maybe part of paroles, that you can't go back to your neighborhood where all your friends are that you were getting in trouble with.

Linda: That would be a wonderful thing, but most of the people that we entertain and we look at, are people that are in faith-based communities. Now they don't have to be in any special faith-based community, but they do have to be in a faith-based community. We do not discriminate. They have to be out for a year --

Howard: Could be any faith?

Linda: Any faith. They have to be out for a year and they have to be in that faith-based organization enough that Smile's Beyond the Bars can call that organization and say, "Pastor so-and-so, Rabbi so-and-so, do you know Mr. Smith? Do you know Jane Doe?" And if they say, "Yes," that's great, fine. But if they say, "No, I have never heard of them," then we have a talk, because -- and we realize that churches are very, very big: the pastor can't know everyone, but there's got to be somebody there that knows that person.

Howard: I guess churches are big enough to where the pastor wouldn’t know everyone.

Linda: Oh yes. Oh yes. And just think, when you have 3000 parishioners, let's think about that. You can't possibly --

Howard: I never thought about how big those Catholic churches were when I was growing up: St. Pat's, St. Francis. But yea, the priest is out the back, he can't remember my name when I walked out the entire church.

Linda: Most of them -- but there are those -- and if it's an --

Howard: So I noticed that the first step of -- well the first step of AA is admitting your problem, but one of those steps is belief in a higher power.

Linda: Right.

Howard: So do you believe belief in a higher power is a key component to --

Linda: Oh, absolutely.

Howard: -- to stop recidivism.

Linda: Absolutely. It is absolutely the missing link. You ask any of the people that we've done and they will say, “You cannot do this without the belief of a higher power, without God, what your belief is.” They just can't do it. It's an awful thing to try to beat addiction. There by the grace of God go I, that I've never had to do that. But it's an awful thing to try to do that.

Howard: Well let's try to do that. Ryan, go get us a couple of beers and a shot of tequila.

Linda: I don't know about that. We may not finish this talk.

Howard: So yeah, and what's so sad is the allocation of resources. So they'll come up with the $38,000 to put them in a cage for a year.

Linda: Right.

Howard: But then when his sister wants $5000 to go to dental assistant school or go to community college, they don't have the money for that. They've got money to lock up your brother but not send your sister to dental school or hygiene school.

Linda: Yes exactly. Exactly. And that's what's missing. And the governor was just unbelieved at the fact that this is what we do. But yet, there is no money in the state to help us to do this. We don't get big funding Howard.

Howard: I got a party for you. I know where you can get some big money this week.

Linda: Okay.

Howard: So we're going to a big party Saturday night with one of my rich homies. What are you doing Saturday night?

Linda: I guess I'm going with you to a party.

Howard: Well you got a -- I'm going to invite you to this party. So anyway, it's David Gergen, who is a friend of the show, and has been here.

Linda: Oh really?

Howard: And he has the biggest orthodontic lab in Miles, and the attorney general's going to be at the party.

Linda: Oh really?

Howard: And a lot of Cardinals football players. But if there's any man in Arizona that can get something done like that, it's David Gergen.

Linda: Really. Oh Howard.

Howard: So he lives in in Glendale and he's having a big party at his house and it's casual, barbecue. You know, you can't tell people to dress up when it's 118 degrees outside. So, it's going to be all casual, but there'll be a lot of Phoenix Cardinals football players, there'll be a lot of Hall of Famers. The attorney general will be there but he's a -- so I need to introduce you to David Gergen, Saturday night at seven. Yes, seven o clock.

Linda: Okay, Howard. Let me just be jotting this down so that I'm not going to miss this. It's Saturday night --

Howard: How do people contact you? You like cell phone? You like email?

Linda: We do have a website.

Howard: But for me to send you this --

Linda: Oh, email or text me.

Howard: Okay, what's your --

Linda: My email is --

Howard: Hang on, I'm mentally challenged.

Linda: Aren't we all at some times.

Howard: So what's your cell phone number?

Linda: 6026289886.

Howard: 6026289886.

Linda: That's correct.

Howard: And what's your e-mail?

Linda: And Howard, let me just interject that we are looking for dentists to come in and help. We ask them to take one person per year and most of them come back to me and say, “This is the most wonderful opportunity we in our office have ever had and we want to do another one.” So we're looking for dentists, labs, orthodontists --

Howard: Okay, so I just sent you the invitation, the address, the time, everything. I just texted it to you.

Linda: Okay.

Howard: What kind of phone is that?

Linda: Oh, it's a new one. It's a Samsung 8 plus. That's it. I just got it two weeks ago. So I'm still kind of learning how to do this.

Howard: Okay, so what are my homies going to find if they go to What do they find?

Linda: They are going to find our mission; they're going to find stories about people that we have done; testimonies about what's happened to them; they're going to find that we're having a wonderful -- which I am inviting you to right now -- a wonderful gala, and it's December the second and I'm inviting all of you dentists out there to please come. It's going to be at the Chateau Luxe. Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful venue.

Howard: December second. So it's a Saturday night.

Linda: It's a Saturday night. It's a black-tie affair and it is wonderful.

Howard: And where's it going to be at?

Linda: The Chateau Luxe. That's at 7th Street and Deer Valley. There's a big FBI building right there on the corner. If you look right up onto the side of the mountain there is a beautiful venue called Chateau Luxe.

Howard: 7th Street and what?

Linda: And Deer Valley.

Howard: And Deer Valley. So that's Scottsdale?

Linda: Well, they say it's Phoenix but it's real close to Scottsdale. Yeah.

Howard: And it's going to be a fundraiser, a black tie --

Linda: It's our big fundraiser event for the year.

Howard: Ryan, will you be my date?

Ryan: You got it.

Howard: I'll be there.

Linda: All right.

Howard: Email me that invitation. And then I'll email it all out to my Arizona friends. Will it mostly be Arizona dentists?

Linda: It'll be Arizona dentists. We do have a few dentists in California. But my dream is to take this all over the United States.

Howard: Well David Gergen -- I think you and David Gergen, you just made your new best friend.

Linda: Thank you. Thank you.

Howard: He's doing that with -- he's doing things like that with the NFL players. Well, a lot of the NFL players come out and they want to get back to their community.

Linda: Exactly.

Howard: You know, they don't want to just sit at home and watch their games from five years ago, they want --

Linda: They want to get out and do something.

Howard: They want to get out and give back.

Linda: And this is a way that they could give back. This is the way that, like you say, with a zero percent recidivism rate --

Howard: On 200 inmates.

Linda: 200 people. And we're doing 50 this year. Our promises is to do 50 people this year.

Howard: Now, does what they did to get in jail always the same or?

Linda: Oh no.

Howard: It can be anything from --

Linda: We have to know their background and I'm sure you understand that. We have to know their background. But the most important thing to us is: what are you doing now to stay out of prison and what is your hope and dream for 10 years out? Where are you going to be? Because you got to understand Howard, my worst thing to do would be to go to a dentist and say, "Howard, let me tell you, you know that $10,000 or $15,000 case you just rebuilt, well that's sitting in Perryville.” Perryville is a prison for women. And some of our cases --

Howard: If I had to go to prison that's the one I'd want to go to.

Linda: Yeah, you'd want to go with the women.

Howard: I want to go to an all woman's prison.

Linda: Yeah. Well you're not going to do it.

Howard: Can you help me get that arranged?

Linda: Oh sure, sure. I got connections.

Howard: And are most of -- in the prison system -- is it mostly drugs? Or what percent of it --

Linda: Well, let's take a look at this. You know, people go to prison for drug related causes; the majority of people do. They get hooked on something, they cheat, they lie, they steal, they kill, to get those drugs.

Howard: So the drugs is the foundation.

Linda: The drugs is a foundation.

Howard: And a lot of the other crimes is to pay for the drugs.

Linda: That's correct.

Howard: And what percent of it would you say that describes the prisoners?

Linda: About 90.

Howard: 90 percent?

Linda: It's huge. It's huge. The people that go to prison for a drug related cause, it's huge.

Howard: But do you think it's one of those things -- like, if you look at the Ten Commandments, I mean, they were first -- they serviced 500 BC, right? Lying, cheating, stealing, coveting and everything. Twenty-five hundred years later, nothing’s really changed. Do you think twenty-five hundred years from now it's still going to be the issue, drugs?

Linda: Not if Smiles can help it. But I think it is. Our world is in such a different state than it was before. Now, I know a lot of people are going to say to me, "Well, it was just different problems, Linda." It is. But now we're into the world of drugs, opioids, killing, lying, cheating, stealing, and unless we can get that turned around it's going to be --

Howard: But even opioids is just the same thing. I mean, I remember when the British landed on Hong Kong, it was the opium trade.

Linda: Right.

Howard: Now it's a century later and people are saying this new deal with opioids, it's like: new deal with opioids? Hong Kong was paralyzed with opium 150 years ago.

Linda: But we're paralyzed with it now. It's coming to the United States and it's hitting our young kids, our very young children are starting to do drugs. It's in the grade schools.

Howard: Yeah. And I just went to lunch yesterday with a friend of mine, and he -- doctors have some responsibility with this, without a doubt. He had lower back pain and every time he went to a doctor the doctor would give him a shot of cortisone and then give him 60 pain pills.

Linda: Whoa, that's a lot.

Howard: I know. And then he. -- but anyway, we talk to endodontists who never, ever give a pain pill of opium, and say Tylenol and Aspirin are fine. And then you've got others who might give like four or eight or 12. And then you got others who give 20, 40, 60, and then they don't use them all. Then the kids find them in the bathroom, then they take them to school and eat them with their friends.

Linda: And so on and so forth and it starts. And then the kids get hooked. And there we are, the beginning of a prison sentence.

Howard: So tell us some stories. Of those 200 people, some of them got to be some of your favorite stories.

Linda: They're all my favorite stories. But we did a now husband and wife and their story is just totally unbelievable. He was in prison, had been on death row, found out that he did not do it. But he was supposed to get out, I'm going to say it was in June, years ago. And she was over at Perryville in the women's prison. They didn't know each other at all. And she had drug charges and Alongside Ministries, I don't know if you've ever heard of them., they are a --

Howard: Alongside Ministries?

Linda: Alongside Ministries. They are a group that goes into prison. And if the prisoner is taken by them, they'll give them a mentor six months before they're going to be released. And then they transition them into coming into the outside world. because some of these people, like Roy, had been in prison for 27 years, you know? There were no cell phones, there were no anything. So they help with doing that. And they're real good friends of Smiles. They do a great job. So anyway, they both came out and they both came to Alongside Ministries. While at Alongside Ministries, you cannot have contact with the opposite sex for almost a year. You have to stay true to your mission and stay true to getting a clean. And Frankie and Roy saw each other in passing; they knew that one was in the men's ministry, one in the women's and they saw in passing. And after they were out for a year, we did both of their mouths and gave them a new smile, new confidence, and they met and they fell in love and they got married. And I was at their wedding. Oh my gosh.

Howard: So he was on death row and they eventually found out he wasn't guilty. And how many times has that happened in the United States?

Linda: I really don't know the true statistics but I know that does happen.

Howard: It's several hundred.

Linda: Right.

Howard: Especially when they start coming out with DNA evidence. Back in the day they had biological evidence but they didn't have DNA testing. When they did the DNA testing there were several hundred people that said, "Oh, that wasn't you." And it's like, most people -- it's kind of funny because most people, you say, "Do you think the government's really competent or incompetent." They say, "Incompetent." Well if you believe they're incompetent, they can't be in charge of your life.

Linda: Right. I've got another story. I want to tell you about Frank. Frank was a young man that had been in prison for a number of years. He was really belligerent, he didn't like people. He found the Lord in prison. You have to think: there's nothing to do there and so a lot of people start reading the Bible. And he read it, and he read it and he read it. Frank had a horrible mouth: perio, broken teeth, had been in fights. And it just so happened that his mother had worked for a 501 C3. And I was at a meeting one day and there was Joan, and she kept saying to me, "Don't leave, I need to talk to you. Don't leave I need to talk to you." And I had to leave because I had an appointment, and I just kind of motioned 'call me' and left my card down. She called me and we had coffee and she told me about her son. So he came to talk to me. His mouth was, like I said, really, really bad and -- making a long story short -- he came into Smiles. We took him into Smiles and his -- do you know Dr. Todd Mayberry?

Howard: Local here?

Linda: Yes.

Howard: I've heard of him.

Linda: Okay. And you probably know about Guyette.

Howard: Who?

Linda: Robert Guyette.

Howard: Yeah, the oral surgeon up in Scottsdale and he's got a place --

Linda: Actually, he's one that we are honoring at our gala.

Howard: Really?

Linda: Yes. He's just such a wonderful man.

Howard: He was an Air Force fighter pilot. And he just came out with a new invention for a nitrous oxide mask.

Linda: Yes.

Howard: Have you seen the nitrous oxide mask?

Linda: He showed me the pictures of it.

Howard: So, it's not just a big bowl sitting over your nose, it's a little cannula up your nostril.

Linda: Right, cannula. So, anyway, we got Bob Guyette involved because it was evident that he was young and he needed All-on-4. And so Bob took a look at him and said, "Absolutely." He said, "We want to help him." And seeing I've had the background that I've had, and been in dentistry for as many years: I was at one time an assistant, I scrub in and I was there for the surgery. And we did the All-on-4. This young man has done a 365 degree turn, Howard. They just placed -- it's been a year -- and they just placed the final; actual final denture in and his smile is beautiful. He's enrolled in college and he started a program at Paradise Valley Community College that is Students for Christ. And they have taken it to every community college in Arizona. He has really made a change in the world.

Howard: And so now: specifics. Does Smiles Beyond the Bars, did Bob Guyette do that surgery for free or --

Linda: Yes.

Howard: He do it for free?

Linda: For free. That's pro bono. We ask our dentists to do it pro bono. And then we have labs.

Howard: So far, is it all Arizona right now? You're trying --

Linda: Arizona right now. We've done two cases in California with Dr. Jin Kim and Tony Daher over there; well-known periodontist and then general dentist. But we are trying to take it elsewhere. There's just so much need.

Howard: So what are you working with in Arizona?

Linda: We work with a lot of labs. You can get all the names on our website. But Wyann Dental Lab; I'm sure you know Beth and Tom, Danny Dental.

Howard: I love him and his wife.

Linda: Oh. I love them. Actually, Danny came on very, very early and he just loves Smiles.

Howard: He is a great guy.

Linda: Isn't he?

Howard: Yeah, love that guy.

Linda: He is. And Wyann Dental has just been really, really great. We need more labs. We need more labs to help us. And we know that labs are expensive, you know: gold, titanium, everything is expensive. And so we're trying to create a fund that will help take care of some of that so that the lab owner isn't totally burdened with that. Sundance Lab is one of ours. [00:27:22] Rusty Gutierrez [1.4] is one. It's just a full gamut and we have the best of the best doctors. They are just absolutely wonderful.

Howard: You were in dental consulting for 30 years. I've seen so many dentists over the years that were burned out. It was an 8 to 5, they just wanted to get done in their day. And then they did a missionary dental trip to Haiti or Mexico or Vietnam and it just changed their whole mindset. So many people, especially a dental office, when they get involved with something that has meaning and purpose, it's a great leadership, HR, meaning, purpose, I mean they're all -- have you seen that?

Linda: I definitely have seen that. The dentists actually, that help us, they will come back for more. They say, "This is such a great experience, we want to do more." Because dentists can go to Moms, they can go to CAS clinic, they can go to Brighter Way, St. Vincent de Paul and give their time. But their staff usually doesn't go. So this is done in their office on their time. If they want to do it on off hours, whatever. And it's such a growing experience. They become really involved with these patients. And one dentist said to me, "My staff had never met someone that had been to prison." And they think, "Wow, they're just like us!" And we have a really, really good relationship with Jack Dillenberg, my good friend.

Howard: He just retired.

Linda: I didn't know that.

Howard: You got to get him involved.

Linda: He is involved.

Howard: That guy is the most hyper dentist I know and now he's retired from the day -- and he's probably going to think retirement's great for about three hours and 15 minutes and then he's going to start 19 projects.

Linda: Well he's married now.

Howard: Yeah.

Linda: He's married. And so, he and Jamie finally got married.

Howard: How long did they date? Ten years?

Linda: Oh my God at, least. More than that I think.

Howard: That's smart.

Linda: And do you know Dr. Maureen Perry?

Howard: Yes.

Linda: Maureen is on our board, one of our board members. And we have a wonderful relationship. They have the residents that need to learn what our people need. So, we have the patients, they have the residents, and it's a marriage made in heaven.

Howard: Yeah. And also this new drug that everybody's talking about that I don't think existed when we were in high school, the meth. When we were little and they were drinking whiskey and beer and smoking pot, it didn't wreak that much habit on the teeth compared to crystal meth. I mean, at least people get on meth, their teeth turn black.

Linda: Oh, they do?

Howard: And I have several times, maybe at a grocery store, maybe, or a 7-Eleven, you see some guy trying to get an application to fill out a job and his teeth are black. And in retail that would be, I mean, it's probably hard to get a job if you have black teeth, missing teeth. Meth is so hard on the mouth.

Linda: It is, but it's hard on your own body Howard, as you well know as a dentist. You've been a dentist for how many years?

Howard: 30 years.

Linda: Right. So you know, it's hard on your whole body. And then when you get the periodontal disease, that can go down into your system and into your heart. It's a no-win situation with this. It's an awful --

Howard: So what do you want my dentists to do? You're talking to a lot of dentists right now. I want you to meet David Gergen Saturday night. And you should call him and talk to him. Tell him you're coming, all of that stuff, tell him you just did a podcast over here -- came over here and he was so at another level. When he showed up here he had a entourage with him and I think two people were in the NFL Hall of Fame and --

Linda: Oh my gosh.

Howard: I mean, this is a -- he's probably -- if dentistry had one rock star it'd be David Gergen.

Linda: Really?

Howard: Oh yeah. Every time I run into him he's with NFL Hall of Famers, current athletes of the Cardinals and they're going, "Yeah, we're going to go do this and we're going to fly Vegas and we've got a meeting. Then we're going to fly back and do dinner." And it's like he's at a different level. But that would be great. And then I think that I should introduce you to the Dentaltown which is right here.

So we're in Phoenix, but everybody here in Phoenix calls it Ahwatukee. Even my neighbors, you'll say, "Well do you live in Phoenix?"

"No, I live in Ahwatukee.”

Linda: Okay, whatever.

Howard: The lawyer will tell you we're in Phoenix. But basically what that means is, Phoenix is just a big square and it has a mountain range: there's the largest city park in America; goes from 50th Avenue to 50th Street and it's a hundred streets long, it's like three miles wide, and 10 percent of Phoenix lives south of that mountain. And they call themselves Ahwatukee. And then north of the mountain -- but anyway, where is I going with that?

So I'm right here. My dental office is three point zero miles up the street and Dentaltown is 3.5.

So you're right here in Phoenix, so we're all close. I'll fix you up with meeting the editorial board. Dr. Tom Jacoby will want to do a story on this. Because I think one of the big reasons -- a lot of things we do is not for one reason: yes, no, up, down, left, right. Usually things are multi-factorial. But we have a section on Dentaltown -- so we have a quarter million dentists on the website, and 50,000 of them have downloaded the app -- but one of the sections we have is humanitarian.

And when I've been reading this humanitarian dentistry -- and we divide it into charitable dentistry, missionary dentistry requests, refers -- but what I've noticed since 1998, so many dentists on the missionary dentistry, it cured their burnout, it cured their loss of purpose, their loss of function. Like I remember in my 30 years, probably the most rewarding case that I've ever had to do: have you heard of that domestic violence place 'My sister's place?’

Linda: Yeah.

Howard: So it's a good code word name, because if you said I'm at the, you know, Alpha Omega Domestic Violence Shelter, well the guy could find you. So they wanted to do the code word name so you could text “I'm at my sister's place.”

And anyway, the lady called me up and some guy knocked her front teeth out and just ravished her self-esteem. And I brought her in there, and my staff got more fulfillment out of doing that one case on a lady -- must be very tough. I mean, it'd be one thing losing your teeth in a car wreck, but to have the love of your life knock your teeth out, that must be rock bottom. And we restored that one anterior case and my assistants were crying. So this is not just helping the man that came out of jail or the woman that came out of jail, this is helping a dentist for their purpose; it's helping the staff. And as far as like religion, it doesn't even have to be with a religion, it's about believing that there's something more powerful and there's something more than yourself. It's not all about you and a bag of chips, there's something greater than you.

Linda: Exactly.

Howard: And that's really what everybody's definition is: to be God, is there anything greater than you or are you the greatest person in the universe? And when a staff realizes that there's something greater than our dental office, and maybe restoring a smile, maybe helping someone get back on their feet -- I can see how this is very motivational for the staff, gives them purpose. It's not the daily grind.

Linda: It does. It totally gives them purpose. I've seen in a staff where the final day -- I'm always at the beginning, me as the CEO, I'm always there at the very first appointment and I'm there at the very last appointment -- and the last appointment, invariably, everyone in that practice will excuse themselves from their patient and they will go into operatory and they will see this new creation, this new being. And there isn't a dry eye in the place. There is not. They have become so involved with this person. And when the person feels comfortable I've seen them sit in a dental chair and share their whole story with the dentist and the assistant, and tell them how their life has been changed and what the dentist and his office are doing to fulfill the remaining portion of their life.

Howard: So is Greg Stanley going to your gala?

Linda: I don't know him.

Howard: So Greg Stanley is a -- we've done a podcast with him, he's up there by where you live, and he has been a dental consultant for 30 years too. And he has always used humanitarian dentistry as [00:37:12] arm and turn [0.6] because he knows that it's a great cure for burnout. And he's arranged missionary trips to Haiti several times. And he saw me, he says, "Well, it's just a win/win/win because [00:37:28] your time is falling this guy [1.1] is completely burned out and fried. And he's wanting to know he -- thinks it's going to be numbers or lower supply bill or increases productivity, and Greg's like, a lot of these guys -- a lot of people think that their world is so bad and then they go to a missionary trip in Haiti and realize: you're the luckiest guy in North America.

Linda: And you don't even have to go to Haiti. Bring one of our people in and you'll get that same high from these people.

Howard: And we're having that issue with women dentists. I mean, it's one thing for a man to go to Haiti and learn to place implants through missionary dentistry, but there's a lot of women who say that's frightening for a single girl.

Linda: Right. And I think it is frightening. It would be frightening for me to go on my own if I didn't know somebody that was going with me. I'd want to do it --

Howard: It's frightening for me to go to 7-Eleven after dark.

Linda: You got it.

Howard: I mean, really, I go to my 7-Eleven three miles up the street, I have to roll my windows, lock the door and think, "Is this a good time to get out of my car?"

Linda: Exactly. Exactly.

Howard: And then the foreign countries thing also is: when a criminal in a foreign country knows that you don't speak the language, it's kind of like a lion, they go after the wounded deer that's limping and at the back of the pack. And when you go to Rio de Janeiro or wherever, the minute the criminal realizes, “Okay, this guy is from the United States, he doesn't know Portuguese.” You know, you're the wounded gazelle that the lion's going after.

Linda: Exactly.

Howard: So yeah. So there's a lot of charity that can be done right here in the United States of America.

Linda: You know, the United States -- even at my church, and I go to other churches and they say, "Well we're going to Haiti, we're going to Mexico, we're going here, we're going here on a mission trip." Oh my goodness, Howard, we just need to look in our backyard. There are so many people here that are on the streets, that are begging, that need water, that need help with their teeth. I mean, just take Mission of Mercy. I've worked with them every year, even though I have this Smiles. I believe that we need to help each other always. And all those people that go stand out there overnight and wait in line -- we have just as much right here in the United States of America, in Arizona.

Howard: You know who taught me that? You know who my first missionary dentistry was? Senator McCain.

Linda: Oh really?

Howard: His wife Cindy McCain --

Linda: Yes, I know her.

Howard: --called my office, I think it was in ‘87 and said, "Could you come across the street from your office to Guadalupe? We're going to have a health care clinic on Guadalupe.” And I was a baby and I realized, my God there's as much poverty in Guadalupe -- you know, I'm at 48th and Elliot, so all you do is cross I10 and it's like: god dang, you can do a lifetime of charity without ever leaving Guadalupe.

Linda: Exactly. There's just the devastation, the hurt, the anger. And when you see these people with a transformed smile, there's no more hurt. The look in their face. I could sit here and show you pictures over and over and over again and you'd say, "Oh my God.”

Howard: And you know what is another great thing? I try to think, if you can get one good thing out of something, it's better if you get two or three or four. But one of the biggest problems that doctors have is they want to start doing some full mouth cases or whatever, but they don't have any work of their own on their website. And I betcha, you could probably convince this person to sign a model release, so you can take the before and after pictures on the website. A lot of these dentists, they get into like placing implants, they get really good. But their website is just a picture of the dentist. And the websites that are converting -- I went to your website and when you do my work, there are before and after pictures.

I mean, go to a cosmetic surgeon. If you're getting a tummy tuck, an eye lift, facelift, whatever, they have all their own work. They say, "This is my work. Here's five or 10 cases." And this would be another -- a lot of dentists say they can't sell a big case to a patient until they can sell a big case. I mean, they need the pictures on the website. And one of the biggest problems in dental website design is the dentist doesn't have a camera. He has no pictures of his own work and these would be cases also where some young dentist could do a full mouth rehab. And a lot of your full mouth rehab patients sure as hell don't want their face on your website. But maybe some of these guys would.

Linda: We already do that and we have a dentist sign, saying that it is okay to use their name, their picture. And we have the recipient sign, it is okay to use your name. We never use the full name. We might say Howard but we'd never say Howard Farran, unless it's the doctor's name and then we do because we want to give the as much publicity as possible. But we have the recipients sign a waiver as well. So we have that all in our files.

Howard: I know some of the great --

Linda: But I don't see the dentists doing that. And you brought up a really good point, that I should be offering that more and more to them.

Howard: Well, these dentists, they went and bought a website five years ago, 10 years ago. They haven't even looked at it ever since. It's not even mobile phone responsive, so it doesn't even look good on a mobile phone. And some of these offices, anywhere from 10 to 100 people will land on that page and not convert and call. And then there's other ones where - sometimes they don't even have the picture of the dentist. Then the next better is a picture, but a far better is a one minute YouTube video, because you can see chemistry and you say, “Hey I'd really like you to come into my practice and be my bill,” and then I can relate to that more than a mugshot.

And then when you say here's some of my own work that I've done over the years and if you're interested in this and -- you don't want to show blood and guts and too creepy, you want to do just like a cosmetic picture. I mean: a face, just a normal natural before and after smile. No gums and pink stuff and all that stuff.

And some of these dental offices: three people will land on the website and one will call. And then the average is like maybe 10 to one. And a lot of them, you can't even really say there are 100 to one, because the data you're looking at, nobody came in. So it's not a 100 to one, it's infinite. Your website does not work. To get that website to work they need to build their own WordPress document website, they need to put a video of themselves talking, maybe a video of other team members who have been with you 10, 20, 30 years.

But it'd really make me think I could trust you more if you're showing a charity dental case that you did. You'd probably be less likely to be a guy that would tell you, you have four cavities and you don't have any.

I feel sorry for America because, when your air conditioner breaks down, the guy shows up, well you know it's a 95 percent chance he's going to say, “Well you need a whole brand new air conditioner for ten grand.” So I have one guy, sometimes I have to wait like two days, but I wait for him because I trust him. And if I had to pay 10 grand for an air conditioner, I'll do it. I just don't pay 10 grand for it if I don't need it. And I think we sell the invisible, and you've got only a few seconds on your website to convey trust and God, what greater way to convey trust as, ‘Hey, here's a charity we're part of, Smiles Beyond the Bars, here's a case we did.’

Linda: Exactly. I think that immediately says to your patients or someone that's viewing your website, “Wow this guy's philanthropic. He must have a good heart or she must have a good heart. I think I'll read on. I think I want to know more about this person.”

Howard: Trust is so huge.

Linda: It is a --

Howard: In the doctor patient relationship or whenever you're selling something that the other person doesn't understand.

Linda: Exactly.

Howard: And every single patient I've had over the years that work in these car shops and things like that, and air conditioning repair and things like that, they're like, "Dude, we're paid straight commissions. I can't even feed my family." I mean the engine light, they call it the idiot light.

Linda: Right. I know that.

Howard: Because when your engine light comes on, it could be an oil change, could be your gas cap isn't screwed on tight, and you come in and he's like, “You need $1700 worth of work.” And what percent -- if 100 women took their car to the auto shop and 100 of them were told they need a whole new transmission, what percent of women in the back of their head to be wondering, “I wonder if that's even true??

Linda: 100 percent.

Howard: I know it's the biggest -- and everybody says it's the greatest country in the world.

Linda: Yeah, right.

Howard: The greatest country in the world, when 100 percent of women don't even trust their mechanic? What percent of women, if they went to a car lot, say, “How much is that car?” would believe that they told you a price that was higher because you're a girl than me a boy.

Linda: Hundred percent.

Howard: Hundred percent.

Linda: I'm telling you, I was single for eight years. My first husband passed and I was single for eight years, and in that eight years of -- believe, me I learned a lot. Taking the car in, taking care of repairs in the home. Everything. And you just can't trust anybody.

Howard: But is it more you can't trust the men, or more you can't trust the women? I mean, is men and women the same?

Linda: I think woman to woman is a lot better.

Howard: Yeah. And then these control freak male dentists don't let their hygienists talk? "Well, you can't diagnose, that's against the law.

Linda: Oh baloney.

Howard: The assistant takes you back for an emergency and he says, "Well, what do you see?" "I'm not allowed to talk. You have to wait for the man with the tie on to come in."

And they're like, "Oh, that guy.”

Linda: If you're using your hygienist properly, and you know that Howard, if you're using her, she's doing a tour of the mouth, and as she's doing that, she's saying to the patient, "Oh, you know Mrs. Jones, I happened," -- I see this. Of course, we'll have to ask doctor when he comes in, but she's prepped that patient.

Howard: Oh, I tell these docs: if that hygienist or that assistant looks in and says "Well, I see a big hole and I don't know what he is --"

What do you mean you don't know what he's going to do? If you're an assistant and hygienist, can't diagnose it right 99.999 percent of the time, you've got a problem. Hygienists are at school for five years! Your assistant went to school for a year. I mean, in fact, in my office, if I say that is a D.O. and Jan, my assistant for 30 years says, "I think it's a watch." We both zip our mouths shut and we call in a third person: could be another assistant, another hygienist, someone with wet hands, not dry hands up front. And then when that hygienist walks in we say, “Number 19.” She knows exactly what's going on, me and Jan disagree. She'll look at it and say, "That's a watch,” or a D.O. or whatever. And then it's my job that if they said, you know, one of them said it was a watch and then I said it was a D.O. and then I got voted, I'm allowed to do it.

And then I -- as soon as I break through that deal and now I'm like with a number four round [00:49:23] bird [0.1] taking out mush, I will stop and say, "Hey, go get that other dentist and go get Yoni to come back in here.” And then I'm going to come out and say, "Yoni, you voted a watch, now we're inside the tooth, sit down, glove up, get in there." And then that's when Yoni will realize only 40 percent of the cavity shows up on a x-ray.

Linda: That's absolutely right.

Howard: And he needed to get in there. I mean, he could even smell it. I mean, he needed to see it, fill it, scoop it, smell it to realize, "Damn, when I'm looking at a cavity on an x-ray, there's a lot more sauce --Well, talk about your journey, because I --

Linda: You know, Howard --

Howard: You're an inspiration to so many, tell them the story behind this tale. You lost your husband. And then, what was it like for the eight years after that?

Linda: Eight years after that. My whole family passed. Everyone in my family: my mother, my father, my mother in law, my father in law, my sister. My only son came to live with me after a really bad divorce. And I was out consulting and came home and I found that he had taken his life.

Howard: Your son. Oh my gosh. Gosh. How old was he?

Linda: He was 42 at that time.

Howard: And you think it was because of the divorce?

Linda: Oh, the divorce. There were many things involved, it was -- he had a really good job, but it was just really difficult to lose your only son. And then, I found him. And, you know, it's okay, because I'm a believer. And every time that happened, God was preparing me: making me stronger and stronger and stronger. My sister was the last one to die. And I have French doors, I did at that time, going out onto my patio, and I was standing there looking outside and I was crying. And I know you're a believer, but the Lord touched my shoulders, actually touched my shoulders, and in this ear right here, he said, "Now is the time. Now is the time for Smiles" I had entertained this thought, but I had never acted on it. So I prayed about it and I told a friend of mine -- we'd gone out to dinner, a gentleman friend -- about this, and he said, "Linda, if there's anybody that can do this, you can do it." And I said, "Yea but how am I" -- we couldn't get insurance on my first husband, so I had -- it was all on me, and I said, "How am I going to quit my job? I have to quit my job, quit consulting, and I have to move forward." He said, "I know you'll find a way." So the very next day he called me and he said, "So where are you." I said, "I'm at the corporation commission" And I had called Mark Peck and asked him. We still hadn't had a name, I didn't have the 501 C3, but Mark and I are really good friends and he said, "Sure, bring one on. Just like I told you." And in the meantime, I talked to Collis Huntington, who is the director and founder of Alongside Ministries. And when we were talking, I was sitting across the table from him, and I said, "You know, if it's okay with you, maybe, just maybe I can get some of your people some dental care." He looked at me and pointed his finger at me and he said, "You have no idea how long we've waited for you to come." Me? Seriously? He said, "We can get it to work." And I thought, "Oh my god, I've got to do something. I've got to make a statement in the world."

So, I quit my job, I called everybody in, told them that they could finish what they were doing and that we were dissolving the company. They thought I was crazy. I had no idea where my next dollar was going to come from.

But, you know, Howard, I've never ever looked back. Never. I would do it again in a heartbeat. Now, do I make a whole lot of money? No I don't. Most everything goes back into Smiles. But you know what? It's the best feeling, the best thing that ever happened to me in my whole life. Money isn't the answer, it's how you feel inside. And doctors, that's why I say to you, "Please, call me. Come into Smiles, we need you.”

Howard: How do they call? Is that number on your website? Or you give out your number?

Linda: Well, they can go through the website and send a e-mail to us.

Howard: That's

Linda: Yes and dot com. Right now there's a glitch with dot org, so use dot com right now.

Howard: there's a glitch.

Linda: There's a glitch and they're working on it. So use dot com.

Howard: You know, you must have seen this -- give some other advice. You know, sometimes people don't realize the story behind the story of why a dentist went bankrupt or why the office fell apart or whatever. And so many times, people will run into someone at the store and they'll say, "Hi," and smile, and the guy will gruff at them. Well, they don't realize, maybe his dog just got run over by a car or maybe he just got a divorce. You don't know what's in the sauce. And so many dentists that I know that hit rock bottom, you know, they lost a child. And they said for years they just --

Linda: Didn't do anything.

Howard: The last thing they cared about was their dental office. They were just trying to survive. What advice, if some dentist is driving to work right now and lost a child or a dad -- I remember when my dad died. Oh my God. I couldn't breathe for half a year. What advice would you give these dentists if they're -- I mean, you went through what, eight times?

Linda: Eight times. Yes.

Howard: Eight times.

Linda: And the advice that I got --

Howard: I mean, my god, when they say that God never gives you more than you can handle, he must think very highly of you.

Linda: I don't know about that.

Howard: He must think, “I can give Linda anything.” What advice would you -- you went through it eight times, your whole family died. One a year for eight years. My God, how do you survive that? How come you're not drinking? How come you're not an alcoholic? But what advice would you give them to get through that?

Linda: The advice that I would give you is: involve yourself in caring for others. And it takes the pain away. When you are helping someone else, you are taking care of yourself. Do it in remembrance of the child, of the mother, of the father. And get your mind off of that. And put it in to helping mankind. And you are going to find that you are going to be happier in your heart than ever.

Howard: I received an email the other day from one of the dentists listening and it made me cry. She said, "I got into dental school.” She did her first filling on a typodont. You know, you drill the hole in a plastic tooth, and do the filling, and she took pictures of it and she showed it to her dad and said, "What do you think, Dad, this is my first filling." And he said, "All I see is a hole in a tooth." He goes, "You don't work on teeth, you work on people.

Linda: It's so true.

Howard: That's pretty profound.

Linda: That's very profound, that's very profound. And I think every dentist needs to realize that, because I think there are those out there that work in this little area and that's all they see all day, and that's all they know. And expanding your life -- dentists, you have such a wonderful gift. You have the gift to be able to change someone's life. You know, and Smiles: it's not me. Sure, I organized this whole thing, I'm the leader of the pack, but if it weren't for the dentists and the labs and everyone together, this wouldn't work. We wouldn't save the state all of this money, we wouldn't give these people new hope.

Howard: Can you go on the humanitarian section and really make an explanatory post about everything you're doing? I mean, there's a quarter million dentists on Dentaltown and 50,000 of them have the app. I really think -- and then Ryan, when we release this podcast, where she posted, then we'll drop our video interview right into that. And then I can forward that link to a lot of movers and shakers.

Linda: OK.

Howard: I think that would be good, because this is just good on so many levels. It's saves the government money, it gives people a new lease on life, it gives the staff meaning and purpose that there's something greater than just drilling, filling and billing. This is so profound, I'm so proud of you on so many levels.

But when you got Grandmas that live to 100. Well, one of the worst things about living to 100, you know, everybody's like, "Oh my god you lived to a hundred." The dark side of living to 100 is pretty much everyone died. They outlived their husband, their children, their friends, their neighbors and things like that. And I just can't tell you how many times I'm sitting with a 101-year-old great grandma, or a hundred-year-old grandma -- How old is Martha? What did Martha make? Ninety-nine? I think it was like ninety-nine and eight months. But it was some really wild conversations. I mean, to live that long, the tradeoff is that you bury your spouse, your children.

Linda: Oh yes.

Howard: I mean hell, she buried grandchildren from car wrecks. And I think that you just -- for you to just personally survive that one death a year for eight years -- my God, you must be -- you should be playing for the Cardinals.

Linda: Okay, now, if I could get one cardinal to get behind Smiles Beyond the Bars, that would be -- I've been trying to do that.

Howard: I'll get you three Saturday night.

Linda: All right.

Howard: We got a date Saturday night.

Linda: We do. Now is my husband involved? Can he come or?

Howard: Of course.

Linda: All right.

Howard: But I think it will be better to explain it all, make that post today or tomorrow. And then I'll e-mail that to David Gergen. Just so he has a heads up, because when you're at a party --

Linda: Should I just take it off the website? Just take it off the website?

Howard: And I send you his number, you should just call him and say, “I just left the same house you did. And Howard Farran told everybody on the show, so he's going to hold David Gergen's feet to the fire.”

Linda: So Howard, can I get you involved?

Howard: Let's all talk about that Saturday night. And let's talk about it in the Dentaltown magazine, that goes to 125,000 dentists every month.

Linda: Let's talk about it. You are a blessing to Smiles. You are a blessing.

Howard: Well, if you're going to say something like that about me, you have to call my mom and tell my mom that, don't tell it to me.

Linda: Give me her number.

Howard: A lot of dentists -- you were a consultant for 30 years -- a big problem with dental consultants is that the best dental consultants pretty much have to be an armchair psychologist. It's like you go in the office and you're like, “Dude, you just threw an instrument during a procedure. You have anger management issues or your kid died and you're not committed or there's” -- I think the best dental consultants have to get in your head.

We had a guy on the other day talking about TMJ and he says half the diagnoses of TMJ has nothing do with their teeth or bite or anything. And he says, “I do half the work up before I even look in your mouth or take your x-rays. Cause I'm treating a whole human.” I'm sure if you lost your job, you're going through a divorce, your kid is on drugs, that might be causing sleep issues, grinding your teeth issues, neck pain, back pain. I saw one study that came out of D.C. I think it was the NIDR or someone there. There was one of the largest chiropractic studies of all time looking at the X-rays of lower back, L4, L5, and they determined that stress was the over dominant variable. I complain that it wasn't the whole thing, really, the majority of the time it was stress. And a lot of TMJ people -- that's a big debate. Some people TMJ think it's all the spine, bur there's a whole other thinking: no it's all it's all the stress of your life causes five spasms: headaches as a brain spasm, TMJ spasm, cardiac spasm, irritable bowel syndrome spasm, and that a lot of a lot of this is stress. And I think that when people start giving back, when people start sharing, when people start building the culture of an office -- you know the mafia say, ‘the fish rotted from the head down’ which means if you have a dysfunctional office, it’s from the leader. And it's your job to get people onboard, motivated and part of that element. The office has to believe in something greater than itself. And if that means getting involved with charity or a humanitarian mission.

Linda: Whatever it is.

Howard: Yeah, but if the whole office believes that the whole office is about the doctor, and the doctor is the highest, greatest power in the office. Well, that ain't ever going to work.

Linda: That isn't going to work. You know, Howard, I have to tell you a little funny story. As a consultant, I went into a practice. And this was a young man that just bought the practice. He's not here in Phoenix, it was in another state, and he had just gotten out of dental school and he bought this practice. And he -- there were five women employees, and he was not married. And I was in there one day and at the end of the day I said to him, “Doctor could we talk privately.” And he said, “Oh sure.” And I said, “You know, you hired me to be honest with you.” And I said, “I see the problem in this office right away.” And he looked at me, and kind of stared at me and he said, “What is that?” I said, “Doctor, you're not married, right?” He said, “Yes that's right.” I said, "You just bought this practice." And I said, "You bought five women and you don't know what to do with them, do you?" And he just stared at me, like you're staring at me, and he said, "Oh my god, you're absolutely right." He said, “Well what do I do? How do I handle them?" I said, “That's what we're going to talk about in my five days here with you.”

Howard: Yeah and that's everything, and that poor dentist thinks that success is all of the alphabet soup.

Linda: It isn't alphabet soup.

Howard: They think it's because they went to this institute or that institute or they're always bragging about, "Oh I've got this machine, or a laser or whatever." And it's: how do you make your staff feel? And how do you make your patient feel?

Linda: Exactly.

Howard: And if that doctor wanted to improve anything in his life, I'd first put it on leading the staff, and this would help lead the staff. And the second thing would be your chairside manner.

Linda: Exactly.

Howard: And if you can't attract and retain and lead the long-term staff, you're never going to attract and retain long-term patients. I mean, at the end of the day we're just in the people business. And they think in microns when they're doing their crown, millimeters when they're doing orthodontics. And it's just people stuff. But you are a hell of a people person. I want to thank you so much for coming on. We'll be doing many things together.

Linda: I just appreciate you having me here, and I want to tell your listeners what I told you before: I was a student out at Mercer Advisors, and I walked by -- the first time I ever heard of Dentaltown I was walking to my cubicle and I saw on a table a Dentaltown magazine. And on the cover was [01:07:02] MTonsmagi . [1.4] I picked that up and I thumbed through it and I said to myself, "Some day that's going to be me." And this is the day I got to meet you and I got to be on your podcast.

Howard: And we're going to put you on that magazine and we're going to talk about your story and we're going to take you to that party, Saturday, 7:30 with David Gergen. He just doesn't know it yet. And then you're going to meet Greg Stanley, who lives by you. Because Greg Stanley is one of the greatest consultants for years, and he strongly thinks you've got to be a chair psychologist. And some of these burned out, fried, dentists, he has just seen so much that, when you get him involved with a charity, on a mission, something like what you're doing or Haiti or whatever, he gets his head on right.

Linda: Right.

Howard: And they talk about sports coaches all the time. I mean, a sports psychologist is more important than anything. It's not that this guy isn't running his route, his head's not on right. You got a bunch of young boys, 22 to 26, making millions of dollars, and they're fighting with their girlfriends, they're drinking too much, and they're smoking pot and -- keeping that young guy's head on straight is the whole game. And Greg Stanley, up with you, has been in this for 30 years, saying, "I know what will fix Charlie. He’s burned out, he's fried.” He'll get them involved with that, get his head on right. And if he can get a dentist's head on right, the rest is easy.

Linda: It is, because they know how to do it, that's not the problem.

Howard: It's really weird with humans, because they always ask what to do. But you know, they always know what to do. They just decide not to do it.

Linda: Exactly.

Howard: You know what to do. You just decided not to do it. So, go back, make sure your corporate culture -- that the greatest thing in the office is not you. Your job is to hire smart people, attract and retain and motivate them every day. And if you hire a smart person, it doesn't make sense for you to step in and do their job. But if you're going to surround yourself with five people and tell them that the greatest thing in the office is the dog, oh my God. There's got to be something in that office greater than you. There's got to be something greater than you. It’s a purpose driven culture. Thank you so much for coming over.

Linda: Thank you, Howard.

Howard: And I’ll see you Saturday night.

Linda: You bet you will.

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