Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
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1012 Epic Dentures with Ryan McCall, DDS : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

1012 Epic Dentures with Ryan McCall, DDS : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

5/10/2018 7:29:24 AM   |   Comments: 0   |   Views: 597

1012 Epic Dentures with Ryan McCall, DDS : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

Before founding McCall Dentures, Dr Ryan McCall was a typical Midwestern boy from Effingham, IL – a small town with a population of 12,000. Growing up in close proximity to a farm, he was sure about two things: he didn’t want to live in close proximity to a farm forever and he wanted to own a red Subaru Outback! After graduating from dental school, Dr. McCall opened his first office in the super dank city of Fort Collins, CO.  His initial marketing tactic was a $15 hand-painted sign in the front yard. Fifteen months later, he opened another office and then foolishly spent a full year flying from Indianapolis, IN to Denver, CO running both offices. He knew there had to be a better way for himself and future dentists. 2 years later, McCall Dentures was born and the persona of 2 Chairz took flight. Today, Dr. McCall continues to be involved with the company as Executive Chairman. He is always finding ways to encourage and support others - from making charitable donations to offering leadership advice. Beyond spending time with his wife Meredith and their four children, his two favorite past times are playing video games and posting excessively on Instagram (yes, he eventually did get that red Outback!).

VIDEO - DUwHF #1012 - Ryan McCall

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1012 Epic Dentures with Ryan McCall, DDS : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

Howard: It's just a huge honor for me to be sitting with Ryan McCall, DDS, who is my own personal idol, role model, mentor. I kid you not. The guy has forty-two thousand posts. In fact, I don't know if you know this, but my son, Ryan, was named after you.

Ryan: No. Really?

Howard: I don't know.

Ryan: And we look alike?

Howard: And you look alike. Hell, you might even be his father. Ryan, he might be your dad. We could do DNA testing.

Ryan: How old is he?

Howard: He is twenty-four years old.

Ryan: I'm not your dad.

Howard: How old are you?

Ryan: I'm only thirty-five.

Howard: Thirty-five. Let's see. Thirty-five minus twenty-four will be eleven. Well, are you Catholic?

Ryan: Yeah, I was raised Catholic.

Howard: Then you could be his father. You could be his father. I have a Catholic patient who had a baby at twelve so yeah.

Ryan: Wow that's a record.

Howard: That is not so much for Phoenix, but anyway. His bio: Before founding McCall Dentures, Dr. Ryan McCall,was a typical Midwestern boy from Effingham, Illinois, which is the hometown of Heartland Dental and Eaglesoft, two of the biggest dental companies from a town of ten thousand.

Ryan: Isn't that crazy?

Howard: A small town with a population of twelve thousand. Is the tallest thing in the city still a crucifix?

Ryan: It is and it is the second largest crucifix in the US. Do you know where the first is? Guess.

Howard: The largest.

Ryan: Texas.

Howard: Well, everything's bigger in Texas. I should have just guessed Texas. Growing up in close proximity to a farm, he was sure about two things. He didn't want to live in close proximity to a farm forever, and he wanted to own a red Subaru Outback. After graduating from medical school, Dr. McCall opened his first office in the Super Dang city of Fort Collins, Colorado. His initial marketing tactic was a $15 hand-painted sign in the front yard. Fifteen months, later he opened another office and then foolishly spent a full year of flying from Indianapolis, Indiana to Denver, Colorado running both offices. He knew there had to be a better way for himself and future dentists. Two years later, McCall Dentures was born, and the persona of two chairs took flight.

Today Dr. McCall continues to be involved with the company as executive chairman. He is always finding ways to encourage and support others for making charitable donations to offering leadership advice. Beyond spending time with his wife, Meredith, and their four children, his two favorite pastimes are playing video games and posting excessively on Instagram. Yes, he eventually did get that red Outback. We both have four children. How old are your children?

Ryan: They're eight, six, three, and one.

Howard: Wow and you're thirty-five. I know exactly where you're at, and you're playing video games. I actually do not play video games because I had four boys. When Nintendo 64 here on Mario, I actually got addicted to it. I came home every night, and we would play Mario Brothers, all four boys, for like three hours every day. It took us half a year to get all two hundred and four stars. When I got the last star, I said, "You know what, dude. I think you should just walk away from this game." I just lost a half a year three hours a day. We had fun though, remember?

Ryan: I'm jealous.

Howard: We did have fun. We would all sit there in the front room screaming and yelling. Do you remember that game Mario 64?

Ryan: Yeah absolutely. I grew up with that.

Howard: Walking on lava and jumping through the window pane.

Ryan: It was fantastic.

Howard: Bowser.

Ryan: Bowser. What about Mario Kart? Mario Kart was a killer.

Howard: Mario that was a weird dude. He was an Italian made from Japan. He was a weird character.

Ryan: That's awesome. I actually only play at the office. My wife made me take all the systems to work because our kids are pretty young, and she doesn't want them to get addicted.

Howard: Oh my gosh.

Ryan: We've gotten so busy that I can't play video games anymore. It's sad. It breaks my heart. I stole a lot of the bio from another guy from Effingham. He wanted a red Corvette.

Howard: Red Corvette?

Ryan: Yeah.

Howard: His neighbor was a Corvette guy.

Ryan: I think so, yes.

Howard: Do you know him?

Ryan: I've met him once, yes. I changed the Corvette to Subaru Outback. I thought that was pretty funny, but they're a great company.

Howard: Another interesting thing, Nintendo, I believe it's the oldest running company in Japan. I mean they were starting like 1890.

Ryan: Wow. Really?

Howard: Yeah. I read it on I think it was The Economist that they're sitting on so much cash that they wouldn't have to have any revenue for like twenty years.

Ryan: That's awesome.

Howard: I mean that's Japanese style. They're extremely long-term company. You know what I mean?

Ryan: Wow. Yeah, no doubt.

Howard: Sitting on just a ton of cash. I think I think that was the ultimate video game. I think it’s the gold standard.

Ryan: Do you think?

Howard: I think Nintendo 64 was the gold standard.

Ryan: You might be right, man. I'm a hockey guy. I play a lot of hockey games, football, sports games mostly. I tried the shooters at work but it scared patients, so I had to stop that so call of duty. I can't play that at all. That's a bummer. That's awesome. You guys played together. Have you been to Japan?

Howard: Oh yeah I've taken my boys there. It's one of the more interesting countries. You learn much about a country going there. Interestingly about Japan, not only was it the third richest economy today, US and China neck to neck and then Japan. Japan it's an island way north of Korea and halfway to Alaska. Their big city, Tokyo, faces the Pacific, which is half the planet of just water. It's a very isolated economy. It's the least English of any country I've ever been to in the world. You can go to any country in the world and if you go to a bus stop ask an English question, 25% at least can help you. Everyone's a tour guide in every country except Japan. They just don't know any English.

What's really cool about being a homie is that when I go to a foreign country, I'm not at the Hilton with a tour guide. I mean I have dentist friends like you. Some of the Japanese dentists that are totally English literate sat at the bar that's still three in the morning just explaining the whole history of Japan and totally agrees. They just really want to be left alone on an island. Nobody immigrates to Japan. Every year they have less people than the day before because you need two point three kids per family to maintain the herd. They don't even have point nine. Every year, there's less people than the day before. Every year, there's less workers paying taxes to support the senior citizens. That's why they're huge into robotics.

Ryan: Yeah no doubt.

Howard: A lot of people will say, "Well, why is Japan's cars made by so many robots than Americans?" Well, number one, we have a ton of low-cost labor. They don't have labor. It's very interesting. The biggest unintended consequence of when I gave my first lecture, a little boy from Kansas had no idea that five continents would feel like-I mean five continents feel to me today what Kansas felt to me when I graduated from dental school. I knew Kansas and I can say I know the world. It's really cool.

Ryan: That's awesome. That's what Ryan was saying too. He said it changes life.

Howard: When you grow up like everyone who says to me America is the greatest country in the world, they probably don't even have a passport. They've never even left America. If they did, maybe they went to a border town in Tijuana. I mean you can't travel the world figure out that, yeah, America is number one in military, medicine, banking, insurance, finance, movies, music. That's about it.

Ryan: That's it. Yeah.

Howard: They're not number one in cars. That's Japan and Germany. They're not number one in longevity. They're not number one. They're thirty-eight. Every year they slip an education. What's really cool is all humans are the same and they all approach. I've fallen in love with architecture because to me architecture is the easiest to see. It's easier to see than like the dentistry. Okay. We all need a window, a door, and a toilet.

But every country this is a little slightly different variation in how their simple toilet works or their door or lifting a window. All these humans have the same needs wants and the variation they do it. It gets really complex when you start talking about economics and politics. I don't think you could understand anything if you didn't see the ten different control groups. You know what I mean?

Ryan: That's cool.

Howard: It really is. It's really cool. I tell everybody that I'm international. If you're a dentist and you want your kids to get educated, don’t send them to the state school up the street. Get on Dentaltown and see if some homie dentist in Ireland or England or Sweden or Japan will take your kid for a year. I mean he takes your kid for a year and he doesn't even go to college. He just lives there for a year.

Ryan: I think it's free in Germany, right? College is free.

Howard: Is it?

Ryan: Yeah. Our neighbor is German. They're going to send their kids back when they're college age.

Howard: Yeah so there's a [inaudible 0:10:07] like in Scandinavia. When you give everybody free college, you don't spend any money on prison.

Ryan: It makes sense.

Howard: When college costs a ton of money, America, you have three million people in prison. Some states like California that cost you on average $36,000 a year per inmate, but you didn't want to give them free college for $5,000. You start to see the tradeoffs. You're going to spend this money. Are you going to spend them on keeping them in a cage or are you going to give them free college?

Now when you say free college, you start screaming, "Socialist, socialist, you're an evil socialist,' which is kind of bizarre for me because when you go to a socialist country like Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Helsinki, Finland where Planmeca is from, Copenhagen, Denmark where 3Shape is from. When you go to all these evil socialist countries, they're a shitload nicer than America. I mean they just are. It's bizarre when I go home to Kansas. I hear all these rednecks [inaudible 0:11:19] saying, "Well that's socialized. That’s socialized medicine." Dude, go live in Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Iceland, just for a month. Then when you come back, I'll never have to hear that stupid shit come out of your mouth again.

I think America is number one in optimist. They're number one in self-esteem. They can do their shit and it doesn't stink. Most Americans when they shit, they think they should wrap it up and sell it as a candy bar to a socialist country. But it's the same in dentistry. There's a lot of huge variances in dentistry.

Ryan: Do you think so?

Howard: Yeah. But enough about that. Tell them your story. You have the most amazing.

Ryan: I love your story though.

Howard: I want to start with your story because it's something we need to revisit. You joined Dentaltown when you were in undergrad.

Ryan: Yeah freshman year at Indiana.

Howard: Our policy now is that to become member of Dentaltown, you have to be accepted to dental school.

Ryan: I think so, yes.

Howard: You've got on Dentaltown four years before you went to dental school?

Ryan: Yeah. This would have been 1999 and maybe 2000. I snuck on. Howard Goldstein let me on.

Howard: Howard Goldstein is the guy that doesn't let you on today unless you are accepted to dental school.

Ryan: Yeah.

Howard: Can you text Hogo?

Ryan: I don’t know anything about any of this.

Howard: Text Hogo.

Ryan: I have no comment.

Howard: Well, no, but I mean you're one of the most amazing townie.

Ryan: Thank you.

Howard: How many offices you have?

Ryan: We're on our fourth and we're building our fifth.

Howard: You have four to five offices.

Ryan: Yes.

Howard: You have forty-two thousand posts.

Ryan: Yes.

Howard: I'm a huge fan of yours, and you got on four years before dental school.

Ryan: Yeah almost twenty years ago.

Howard: You should be the poster child of why we should let anybody from undergrad on Dentaltown because, otherwise, they have to go to that other. What's that other message board community?

Ryan: Facebook or something.

Howard: Facebook group.

Ryan: Oh the Dental Student Work, yes, I was a moderator on there. I was into it big time. I think maybe that's how I found him.

Howard: How many of those people on Dental Student Network do you think would be better served on Dentaltown?

Ryan: That's a good question. I would have asked Howard about that.

Howard: We need to revisit that. If you have an opinion on that email. Do you give out your email?

Ryan: Yeah for sure. It's just

Howard: Ryan McCall.

Ryan: Yeah.

Howard: You're mixed. You're Irish?

Ryan: Yeah, I think so. That's in southern Illinois, right?

Howard: All the mixed are Irish.

Ryan: Yeah for sure.

Howard: I'm The guy who makes the decision is Howard Goldstein. He was the second Howard. He's Hogo for Howard Goldstein, H-O-G-O,, if you want to make an online CE course or if you have a question about [inaudible 0:14:08]. Let us know if you think of undergraduate students who are pre-dent should be allowed on Dentaltown because right now they have to go to Student Dental Network or they have to go to a Facebook group. After that, was hearing dentists talk, did that affect your thinking and decision-making as an undergrad?

Ryan: Actually, I got into a couple of medical schools. Once I got onto Dentaltown, I kind of realized it was for me. It changed the course of my life. It might be worth looking into. There are a lot of people that are interested and younger guys especially.

Howard: You got accepted in medical school and dental school.

Ryan: Yes and decided to go to dental school. I was going to be a pediatrician so like my whole life I wanted to be a pediatrician. I spent a full summer with my pediatrician in Effingham, and she told me to go to dental school because she was tired of working eighty hours a week and she was tired of not making a ton of money. She said, "If you're going to do pediatrics, go to dental school." I thought I was actually going to do pedo after dental school. I ended up moving to Colorado after that.

Howard: You just wanted to get out of Effingham.

Ryan: Went to IU.

Howard: A town of twelve thousand.

Ryan: Yeah and went to Indiana. Rode bikes. Are you familiar with it?

Howard: Undergrad was IU Indiana.

Ryan: IU in Bloomington.

Howard: In Bloomington. How come you didn’t follow Dave Letterman and go to Ball State? Is it Ball State?

Ryan: It’s in Muncie, yeah, that's why. I'm surprised you know that.

Howard: I mean how come you didn’t follow Dave letterman?

Ryan: Yeah he went to Broad Ripple High School so he's a legend. I'm not that funny. IU is great. We rode Little 500, the bike race. Have you seen Breaking Away, the movie?

Howard: Yeah.

Ryan: Dennis Quaid's first movie. That’s how I met my wife. So we both rode in the Little 500. Then I went to UIC for dental school. I got back to Illinois after that.

Howard: UIC.

Ryan: In Chicago. University of Illinois, Chicago.

Howard: Now, is that still open?

Ryan: Yeah, it’s still open.

Howard: University of Illinois, Chicago. UIC. University of Illinois, Chicago is still open.

Ryan: Yes.

Howard: But Northwestern closed.

Ryan: It closed a lot of their faculty.

Howard: They had four.

Ryan: Yeah, I think so. Now, they have Midwestern University. There's just two I think now.

Howard: The other Midwestern is at Glendale, Arizona. That's two Midwestern and then University of Illinois, Chicago. They just have two dental schools now?

Ryan: Two, I think, yes. It was a great experience because it was on the south side of Chicago. Looking back and comparing it to Indiana University, I got so much experience and I learned a lot.

Howard: What was it like living in Chicago for four years?

Ryan: Awesome. In my early twenties, like, oh my word, it was so fun.

Howard: Oh my god, going from a town of twelve thousand to Chicago.

Ryan: That was like a different world.

Howard: It must have been like the bar scene in Star Wars.

Ryan: Yes, absolutely. My wife, she's from St Louis. It wasn't such a big transition for her, but it was fun and we had a great time.

Howard: Did you marry Meredith before dental school?

Ryan: No. Actually like our senior year, we got engaged and then my mother-in-law-

Howard: When did you start dating her though?

Ryan: We've been dating for like freshman year in undergrad.

Howard: You dated her all through dental school?

Ryan: Yeah. We broke up for a little bit during sophomore year when it gets really hard. You take like thirty credit hours, and I was really grumpy all the time. She worked for HSBC, Hong Kong, the bank. She did commercial real estate in Chicago.

Howard: HS.

Ryan: BC. Hong Kong and Singapore Bank of China.

Howard: That's right.

Ryan: Then she did commercial real estate in Chicago, which is cutthroat, man. I think she was the only woman in the office. She did really well, but having that experience has helped us grow tremendously. She's a great businessperson and just an awesome support network. She really is. She's a blessing. We got married in Colorado. Then we had our first two kids Fort Collins. I moved to Durango after dental school.

Howard: Now, Fort Collins, isn't that where the nuclear weapons?

Ryan: That's in Wyoming, I think.

Howard: No, it's in Colorado, the underground bunker where they conduct the nuclear warfare.

Ryan: Oh really? I didn’t know about that. Oh really?

Howard: Yeah.

Ryan: Dang. No, I didn’t know.

Howard: Ryan, where is the Air Force nuclear war headquarters.

Ryan: I'm pretty sure it's Cheyenne, Wyoming, which is like half an hour away.

Howard: It's in an underground bunker underneath a mountain in Colorado.

Ryan: That sounds scary, man.

Howard: Yeah.

Ryan: We were in Durango for a while. Have you ever been there?

Howard: Yeah. You know Larry Suazo?

Ryan: I never met him.

Howard: He was a pediatric dentist, my classmate.

Ryan: Is he in Durango?

Howard: Yeah.

Ryan: He went to UMKC?

Howard: Then there's the famous endodontist on Dentaltown.

Ryan: Ragnar?

Howard: Ragnar.

Ryan: Okay. I used to ride bicycles with him. We used to do mountain biking together. He would let me come over to his office and watch endo when I was still doing endo at the time. What happened to Ragnar, man? Is he still alive?

Howard: Oh he's mad at me. I said something or someone on Dentaltown. It's either me or Dentaltown or something that pissed him off.

Ryan: Oh he's so talented though.

Howard: Yeah, he is.

Ryan: That's when I knew that I had to stop doing endo when I went to his office and watched and with the microscope.

Howard: In Durango?

Ryan: Yeah. I was like I'm done with endo.

Howard: What city?

Ryan: Colorado Springs?

Howard: It used to be on tour before 9/11. You could actually get there, but anyway. It's an underground hill with several years of water. It's on Springs. They have the command center and everything exciting there. The reason I want to tell you that is because that was why the internet was invented because Washington DC was afraid when they're talking on the telephone wire that if the Soviets launched first, those bombs coming over the North Pole if they blow up a telephone wire in Nebraska, the Washington DC couldn't talk to the command center.

So they asked their scientists the late 1970s, "How can we communicate if a wire is broken?" So they said, "Well, there might be some wire open. Let's make the message so that we can send it out over any available wire, but the HTTP will be reassembled at the other side." It might even go from Washington DC to New York to London to Moscow to your own enemy and come all the way around the other side.

To build that system, the first thing they built was the computerized bulletin board system, which is the message board, the message board format that we're on, the same as the Student Dental Network, very different than the early social media, which was email groups like dentists at CompuServe where you open up your email will be this endless newsfeed. Then all the social media apps, all they did is get that unorganized crazy shit out of your email. It was like Friendster and MySpace to Twitter to Facebook. It's just this endless newsfeed. The scientists who built [inaudible 0:21:32] which was the internet used the system that Dentaltown is on, which was the computer bulletin board system.

I like Twitter. I like Facebook. I like all that stuff. But I can't follow a Ragnar and learn how to do endo. It's not searchable like Dentaltown. I mean sometimes I go to Dentaltown and I have a problem with endo. I want to go right to endo.

Ryan: Search.

Howard: Search a broken MB2 and things like that. I like that format better. You had your first two babies in Fort Collins.

Ryan: We did, yes.

Howard: You had a dental office there.

Ryan: We did. We bought a practice in Fort Collins. I ended up selling.

Howard: Why Fort Collins?

Ryan: I looked all over the Front Range. We want to live in Boulder and Fort Collins that kind of area. I think I looked at like forty practices before we finally bought one. I found a seventy-two-year-old guy who was only replacing dentures like no surgery, no restorative, just replacement dentures. We bought that office, and I started doing some restorative.

Howard: Was this how you got into mastering dentures?

Ryan: Yeah.

Howard: Did you just fall into this?

Ryan: I did.

Howard: It sounds like your love was pediatric.

Ryan: It was at first, but then I realized that my passion was dentures. In Durango I worked for a guy that was doing same day dentures and I enjoyed it, but I knew there had to be a better way to kind of go about it. I found this practice in Fort Collins. He was an older gentleman, and he had a system everything. I worked with him for quite a while. He had a lab. I tried to switch it to restorative. I was good at restorative and I enjoyed it, but I realized like about six months in that my passion was dentures. It's so weird. I've never thought it'd be my future. I was the guy in the back of the class during removable lecture and I was like, "No one wears plastic teeth. That's dumb. It's a waste of time." Now it's my passion. It's what I do and it's what I do all day.

Howard: Now when you're in Fort Collins, did you also have an office back in Effingham?

Ryan: No.

Howard: Fort Collins was your first office.

Ryan: First Collins is the office.

Howard: You bought a seventy-two-year-old guy who just replaced dentures.

Ryan: That was it. I added surgery, and I tried to switch it over to general family dentistry. The area is really competitive. I had to find a niche and dentures it was because there's only one prosthodontist in town. I dove in and I taught myself everything. I went back to like Dr. Pound and like Dr. Turbyfil and just totally taught myself. We did a lot of remakes. I mean I'm not going to lie. We had a ton of remakes when I first started, but Earl Pound, genius.

Howard: Is he still around?

Ryan: These guys are old. He is. I think he still teaches. This is kind of where I got my start and I tried everything.

Howard: Ryan, what's Turbyfil?

Ryan: It's hard to pronounce, but I believe it's Turbyfil.

Howard: Turbyfil?

Ryan: Yeah. I think he still lectures some, but he's amazing.

Howard: Ryan, can you find these two dentists, Dr. Earl Pound and Dr. Turbyfil?

Ryan: During my lecture tomorrow.

Howard: They're going to be at the lecture?

Ryan: No, they're just my inspiration.

Howard: do you contact them?

Ryan: I took one of the lectures, but Dr. Pound passed away quite a while ago.

Howard: Oh Earl Pound passed away.

Ryan: Yeah. He's like the denture guy, neutral zone, and all that stuff. That's him. I just taught myself everything.

Howard: There's another one in Oklahoma. Everybody calls him Uncle Joe.

Ryan: Oh Dr. Massad?

Howard: Yeah.

Ryan: I've tried all his stuff.

Howard: Uncle Joe.

Ryan: His stuff is amazing also. Aquasil is a great material. I tried all the trays. I've done it all, man. It was all by myself just on the fly and kind of figuring it out. We're in Fort Collins. Someone posted on Dentaltown actually about a practice in Indy, and it had been on the market for three years and no one was interested in. The guy was doing two days a week. He'd see two patients a day. He would do one full mouth surgery in the morning one in the afternoon.

Howard: For immediate denture?

Ryan: For immediate dentures. He would see two patients a day. He was doing like 300,000 a year and no one was interested. Actually, Doug Sakura or Dr. Stogie called me and he was like, "You need to check this practice out. I flew to Indiana on a Thursday and we bought the office on a Friday. Then I ran both offices for a whole year.

Howard: Was there a non-stop flight from Fort Collins to Indianapolis?

Ryan: No, it's from Denver.

Howard: You had to fly to Denver or drive to Denver.

Ryan: I drive Denver and fly to Indy. Then I'd work Indy Thursday Friday, and then I would fly back on Sunday. Then I would work Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday in Fort Collins for a full year. My wife was pregnant with our third at the time. I thought I could do it and manage both, and I had an associate. It was just too much, so we ended up selling that to a prosthodontist who kept the whole staff and it worked out really well.

Howard: Which one did you sell?

Ryan: Fort Collins.

Howard: You sold Fort Collins.

Ryan: We did.

Howard: You want to go back to Indiana because it was closer to family and wife in St. Louis.

Ryan: Family, yes, and there was that need for dentures, man. It just blew my mind when I got there, the need for dentures the lack of education in removable prosthodontics. When we got to Indy, it just exploded. It's unreal. I can't even like put it in words.

Howard: What year did you move back to Indy?

Ryan: This would have been probably like 2015 probably.

Howard: Just three years ago.

Ryan: Yeah like three or four years ago.

Howard: Three years ago, this is 2018. I took Algebra and Trig.

Ryan: I'm not good at math.

Howard: I'm thinking three years.

Ryan: I took [inaudible 0:27:14] to get there.

Howard: Three years ago, you had one office in Indianapolis, Indiana.

Ryan: Now we have three.

Howard: Now you have three.

Ryan: Three. We're on our fourth. They're all within an hour in Indy.

Howard: By the way, Indianapolis is the largest city in America. Did you know that?

Ryan: Indy is? Have you been to New York?

Howard: No, in geography.

Ryan: Oh geography. I thought you meant the population.

Howard: There's no suburbs in Indianapolis.

Ryan: Yeah for sure. It’s spread out.

Howard: Like Phoenix the actual city limits, it doesn't even have a million people, but the metro has three point eight million. When they made Indianapolis, they made the city so big it's the biggest city. I heard that.

Ryan: I'm going to steal that.

Howard: Well, I double check them on Wikipedia. It might have changed. You know what I mean? Name a suburb in Indianapolis.

Ryan: Name one? Carmel. Zionsville. Somewhere like that.

Howard: Any other big ones?

Ryan: Those are the big two right now. Fishers is growing a lot. I actually looked at a bunch of URLs like Fishers town and Carmel Town.

Howard: Were all three of your offices in Indianapolis right now?

Ryan: No. One's one in Indy and then one is in Lebanon which is about forty-five minutes or so northwest. I actually found that office. Another dentist tried to replicate what we were doing. It didn't take off quite as well, so he contacted me. I took it over and then it's rolling. Then we just opened Kokomo a few weeks ago. Kokomo.

Howard: Spell that.

Ryan: K-O-K-O-M-O

Howard: Somebody said Japanese dragon.

Ryan: It’s in the middle of Indiana cornfields, man.

Howard: Lebanon. I wonder if that's founded by Lebanese.

Ryan: Definitely not.

Howard: Definitely not?

Ryan: Nope. It's a farm town. It's a bit more rural. There's just such a need for what we do, so we're growing pretty quick.

Howard: The guy in Lebanon started it. It didn't work well. You took it over.

Ryan: I took it over.

Howard: What were the lessons learned? What do you think he didn't figure out?

Ryan: Marketing. He only saw sixty patients in six months. It's a good location, but we've been really blessed with social media to find a lot of new patients.

Howard: Let's go there for a minute. When you say social media, I know you're huge on Instagram.

Ryan: Instagram is big and Facebook.

Howard: What's your biggest? Facebook?

Ryan: Yeah, for patients for sure, Facebook is our biggest.

Howard: Facebook is biggest. What's next?

Ryan: Instagram is probably number two. Twitter is probably a waste of time, I'd say. Unless we're hiding IP, then Twitter is awesome.

Howard: Unless you're hiding what?

Ryan: Unless we're hiding intellectual property, then Twitter is fantastic.

Howard: What does that mean?

Ryan: Intellectual property like Tukeetown. I want to hear about it.

Howard: Twitter is a waste of time for B2C.

Ryan: Yeah that's what I'm saying.

Howard: But you're saying it’s good for B2B?

Ryan: No, I don’t think it’s good for anything.

Howard: You don’t think it's good for anything.

Ryan: Yeah.

Howard: Any others?

Ryan: LinkedIn is getting better. They've changed quite a bit on LinkedIn.

Howard: LinkedIn has a lot of people that need full mouth dentures?

Ryan: No, more for business to business. Twitter just changed their platform like last week, which is interesting because Facebook was in Washington, at the same time and Twitter stock took off. I've been working with it a little bit more. As far as patient attraction, Facebook is still the best.

Howard: Well, let me tell you my investment strategy on these stocks. I'm always giving money to Facebook to boost the post. Instagram is owned by Facebook, so I consider that the same company. That's the same company. I always give money to Facebook and Instagram, I've never given a dollar to Twitter or LinkedIn or Pinterest or Google Plus.

Ryan: That's a good thing.

Howard: Here's my belief on what they did. They knew there was a ton of fake accounts. They knew there were a lot of [inaudible 0:31:20]. But they wanted to have those big numbers. In doing that, they didn't have a very extensive registration process. I mean they don't even know I'm a dentist. I can't send a tweet to all the dentists. I would if I could post a podcast and pay a hundred bucks. I got twenty-five thousand followers on Twitter. If they said we have two hundred thousand dentists around the world that you can forward these tweets, I'd pay the money. But since they don't have any mechanism and since I don't get money, why would I buy the stock?

Ryan: Their new platform is better. I think if you put a lot of blog posts on there, that's a good way to get some traction. But that's the only thing I would use Twitter for. Facebook has been our best.

Howard: Do you brand each of the three offices?

Ryan: We have one main page just for our brand.

Howard: What is the main and what is that called?

Ryan: It’s mccall_dentures.

Howard: mccall_dentures.

Ryan: Actually that's the Instagram page. Instagram, we have thirty-six thousand followers now.

Howard: Oh my God.

Ryan: I know.

Howard: Now, these are B2C patients?

Ryan: Yeah, we're getting a lot of industry people on there too.

Howard: A lot of industry people.

Ryan: Yeah. I'm up there.

Howard: I'm sure I follow you. mccall_dentures. Yeah, I'm already following you.

Ryan: I tag you all the time.

Howard: Oh There's Ryan on there. You Ryans are sticking together.

Ryan: That's what I said, man.

Howard: You Ryans are sticking together.

Ryan: Doing a podcast with my guy.

Howard: Which is better, Instagram or Facebook?

Ryan: As far as attracting patients or for like your business?

Howard: Yeah, patients, patients.

Ryan: Probably Facebook. I actually went to an Instagram conference in LA last year. I got invited. They only invited a hundred entrepreneurs from all over the US. Vans was there, the shoe company, Williams Sonoma, Roy Choi, the guy who invented the food truck movement in LA and a couple of other like big-name people. The CEO of Instagram was there. I showed up with all these denture pictures. They were like, "What the hell?" It's like gross, right? But I learned so much. It was amazing. It was the coolest opportunity I've ever had.

Howard: What did you learn?

Ryan: I just learned how to brand myself and create our brand and how to find my passion and tell our story. They had small table group discussions. Have you heard of Drybar? It's this hair blowout place.

Howard: Oh come on, come on.

Ryan: I know, right? Sorry. That's a bad joke.

Howard: I use mousse.

Ryan: Her name is Alli and she was there. She has like, I don't know, sixty Drybars all over the US now.

Howard: Drybar.

Ryan: Drybar. D-R-Y-B-A-R.

Howard: What is a Drybar?

Ryan: It's fancy blow out your hair kind of thing for bridal parties and things like that. It's really genius. I met all these people and it was amazing like it just blew my mind.

Howard: It made me think of that girl in Dentaltown who's starting the Floss Bar.

Ryan: Yeah. Yeah, I mean that's a cool idea too.

Howard: Do you think that will take off?

Ryan: I'm not sure. I don't know enough about it. I really don't. Do you think it will?

Howard: I don't know. Too early to tell.

Ryan: Yeah for sure.

Howard: I like that they'll [inaudible 0:34:37]. I don't like the people who always think of a hundred reasons why to fail. I like the guys frigging try it and if it does fail. I mean they always forget for the average millionaire did a formal BK, bankruptcy, three times. These dentists say always they spend ten years talking about an idea. Do it, go bankrupt, and go onto the next thing.

Ryan: That's what I did, but we didn't go bankrupt thankfully. I went to this conference, and they couldn't believe that we've had much success on Instagram with our full mouth extraction cases. Because if you go through that, I mean there's some pretty graphic stuff on there. I met the COO, Marne Levine, I believe her name is. She's like number three or Facebook. She was blown away. She's like, "What are you doing here?" I was like, "This is what I do. This is my passion. I'm taking it everywhere. I'm going to teach dentures." It's been a tool to help us grow.

Howard: What I like about you is not just that you're another Irish Mick. I say it sincerely because when I got out of school, my mouth was soured because it was always about dentistry on lifestyles of the rich and famous. I mean I remember going to the Pankey Institute and hearing about the A patient, the B patient, the C patient, the D patient, how you only want the A patients. You only want to hang with the A patients. Having see patients in your waiting room [inaudible 0:36:09] and I'm like, "Dude, I'm from Kansas. My entire pedigree is C, D, and F patients."

Ryan: My patients are already A patients, man. I don't approach it like that.

Howard: Because you’re Southwest Airlines.

Ryan: Yeah. Well, I don't even care about that.

Howard: I mean every seat is first class [inaudible 0:36:28]. It's not my passion to help kings and queens and Kardashians of slightly finer shit. I like to roll in there with my Kansas homies where if you're in a family reunion, almost all of them uncles have dentures. Half the men didn't even wear them because they didn't fit. They had no problem eating with no teeth. I remember being a senior in dental school being at church with one of my uncles and I stood up. He was like six-three and I'm five-seven. I stood up with him because he's wearing overalls and he's eating almonds in the church and I said to him. I said, "Can I look at your lip while you eat the almond? I mean I think I was a senior in dental school. He had these callused ridges and they were dusting these almonds. The adaptability of human is intense.

I also always said this. Whenever you think of a cosmetic dentist, you think of some fellow in the AACD doing all these veneers and that is such a misinformation fake news. The majority of full mouth cosmetic makeovers are full dentures.

Ryan: Absolutely. It's a foundation, man.

Howard: I'm not talking about in Asia, Africa, and Latin America. When ten girls got a smile makeover, nine of them got a denture and only one or less than one or half of one got upper ten Empress veneers. Nobody wants to talk about the nine girls that lost their teeth, gum disease, meth addiction, poverty, un-education growing up where mama was handing Mountain Dew and animal crackers when she was two. Her self-esteem was blown. Now, she loves her smile.

Ryan: It changes life.

Howard: It changes lives.

Ryan: It does. I've listened to all your podcasts every single one of them, I swear.

Howard: I'm sorry.

Ryan: No, it's good. I love it. I still love it. One of my favorites and I think like which one is you're most downloaded? Do you know?

Howard: I think it's Carl Misch.

Ryan: Is it? Okay. Ryan said it was Kristine.

Howard: Oh it was Kristine, oh my god.

Ryan: Okay. I did my research.

Howard: Yeah, you're right. That was the most downloaded. She wasn’t even a dentist.

Ryan: Her story was amazing. No, not at all, man. I went to Buffalo like probably about three or four months ago and presented to them and talk about all our stuff and what we're doing. I'm hoping like maybe