Danielle Cline took to the dental front office like a duck in water when she started in 2007. She became an expert on dental insurance and was determined to educate not only her patients, but anyone who called to ask a question. Today she not only provides consulting services for dental teams in the Austin area but she is launching her new company, Dental Mama. With Dental Mama she will take her knowledge directly to the people who are confused, frustrated, and most deeply impacted by their dental plans: Patients! She knows that virtually no one understands how their plans work when they come to the dentist, and believes that consumer-based education will positively impact experiences for patients and dental teams.
VIDEO - DUwHF #1265 - Danielle Cline
AUDIO - DUwHF #1265 - Danielle Cline
Her company, Cline Consulting, focuses on team-building and treatment acceptance. She believes clear language, excellent verbal skills, and a strong knowledge of dental insurance as well as financial options help set patient expectations. A confused patient will be less willing to accept treatment and more likely to leave negative feedback. Danielle loves to help dentists understand their own vision and use that to give the entire team purpose. She believes that this is necessary to building a successful practice with patients who will rave about their experience.
Howard: it's just a huge honor for me today to be podcast interviewing Danielle Cline all the way from Austin Texas she took to the dental front office like a duck in water when she started in 2007 she became an expert on dental insurance and was determined to educate not only her patients but anyone he called to ask a question today she not only provides consulting services for dental teams now scenario but she is launching her new company dental mama with dental mamas she will take her knowledge directly to the people who are confused frustrated and most deeply impacted by the dental plans patients she knows that virtually no one understands how their plans work when they come to the dentist and believes that consumer based education will positively impact experiences for patients and dental teams her company Kline consulting focuses on team building and treatment acceptance she believes clear language excellent verbal skills and he's strong knowledge of dental insurance as well as financial options help set patient expectations a confused patient will be less willing to accept treatment and more likely to leave negative feedback Daniel loves to help Dentists understand their own vision and use that to give the entire team purpose she believes that this necessary of building a successful practice with patients who will rave about their experience then you I'm first of all thank you so much for coming on the show and mine if I was ever gonna have a dental mama I'd want it to be here I'd be a good mom for Yvonne it sounds like you had I read your book Howard I think you had a good mom oh my mom I let her down those he told she told me since I was can ever remember that I was gonna be the first American Pope and my two older sisters believed it and they became nuns and I totally believed it until I met this girl named Jane and uh and then I lost but anyway you know dentists like to do dentistry I mean they go to college they want to do all surgery they're in operatory it's all hands-on it's all surgery and selling is a four-letter word and it um like you were telling me before the show that you thought that that you know people like you going to end oh you don't have to sell endo they come out begging to get you out of pain well you're an emergency room doctor they're waiting three hours for you you're not selling them anything but
Danielle Cline: we know in the field how important dentistry is so how important it is to patients so it's like do you want to help your patients or not but
Howard: so so what's the mental block cuz I I can assure you I've been this Phil thirty two years almost all dentists hate selling dentistry and I always tell him that um my god well what are you passionate about I mean I was talking to some guy Beeville Texas I said you know all he wanted to talk about it was f-150 truck I said maybe she just quit dentistry and go open up and f-150 shot I mean I bet he could sell them yeah and when he talks about trucks I mean he's like he's like no hi but then he but he's not you didn't feel that way about dentistry even though you know that when girls lose all their teeth and get a denture that spikes him for like killing them taking their own life in the next 90 days I mean I mean I I remember this one lady and one day she just broke down because I asked her about her her husband and glancing long time so how's he doing and she said you know what she goes on when I got my adventure I I couldn't sleep with it so I locked him out of the room the bedroom right and I am I didn't want him to ever see me without the tooth and after a couple of years of sleeping on the couch one day he was gone and I and she's looking back
Danielle Cline: Howard how did you feel about that when she told you that story I mean how did you feel about her situation well
Howard: it was totally sad right even though that even though when I got my diplomat in the International Congress or intellij I was I just want to do big cases so when when nice patients would come in that I know a long time I just said hey buddy look you just you just want to look won the lottery I'm gonna take out your denture I'll do the whole thing for free cuz I just want to do the case and two-thirds of them didn't want to do it they're like I don't have any pros might enjoy he need apples so so in the removal world you know if it work if it's not broken I want to fix but what is the mental break about trying to sell people then it's
Danielle Cline: well I mean I think that there's a lot of things and you could probably answer that question better but I think that you partially answered that in the guy with the f-150 passion I don't know that how passionate they are about it why are people getting into dentistry if they don't want to help people if they don't genuinely feel sad when somebody is hurting I worked with a prosthodontist a couple years ago who if I wanted to send every patient that has a denture or is in any kind of pain and is older to him because he loves them he loves his people and I think that if a dentist is going to get into dentistry they ought to love what they do and they ought to believe that it makes a difference in people's lives and if they don't then they're probably going to have a hard time selling it hmm and
Howard: I wonder I wonder if it's also because they're always selling something the patient doesn't want I'm sure you know I've always noticed when you go to conferences you know like like I was that one where the guy was talking about implants the kid that raised his hand awesome I told them he didn't like the case because the patient had four bicuspid extraction he thought that he thought the ortho and I it's like everybody sees something different and I wonder it's because they're like someone comes in and the old joke is Daniel you have 11 cavities and your answer is can I have bleaching yeah I mean is it that they're presenting something he always gets rejected and if you get rejected enough you don't want to go back there as opposed to
Danielle Cline: yeah but we have the tools now to help dentists I mean you've talked about technology before I use those intraoral cameras if you can't if you're not passionate about patient education and explaining to your patients why this will be good for them I don't think it has to be a hard sell I think that if you care about people and you see something in their mouth that you know for a fact because you had a lot of education and schooling and experience even a new dentist can come in after eight years of schooling and be able to look at something and say I know what's coming down the road for you and if you care about people and you want to educate them I don't if the people don't quote unquote by it I mean that's on them but if you don't explain it to them and educate them and come from a place that you really care about those people then that's on you not you personally Howard I know you care about people do you have a hard time selling dentistry
Howard: no because my gosh I mean I I just find it offensive could you imagine if I found out that I just turned 57 I found out that the doctor I've been going to he didn't have the heart to tell me that I had pancreatic cancer prostate cancer and you know they he just so he just told me you know to take these probiotics I mean I I mean he it's not his body I don't have any guilt for your body I mean you I this first I met you your you know you got eleven cavities I don't know anything about you but I tell you you know that this is what I do and then I always tell them this is what I would do if it was me but I say you know but I also always start with the lowest cost so when they come in with the tooth day here's here's my spiel if they come with the tooth ache if I just say Oh Danielle you're gonna need a root canal but let me grab well I I've seen so many offices with it where they start apologize like Danny I'm so sorry sorry to tell you this is but you're gonna need of a root canal it's real expensive right it's so expensive I think your boss or your president of the country you live in should pay for it yeah victim mode so I was so I say hey you know you got you got a toothache you got an abscess but I'm you know ten percent of all Americans by sixty four don't have one tooth so the fastest easiest thing to do is just pull that tooth I get numb it up have it out of there in 15 minutes well I'm in Phoenix I mean three out of four people say why I don't want to pull my tooth because then they'll think I'm from New Mexico and you know and and so now they're wanting to buy the tooth and that's the same mindset when they want to buy an iPhone under the they want to spend some money but you don't ever make him feel like a victim they're the one I mean dentistry for the most part is a behavioral disease I mean I did nothing that caused me to be short and bald but when you but you know they come into my office and I love them they're challenging but I mean I am brought babies that have been up all night crying from a toothache while the mothers out there in the waiting room pipetting Mountain Dew into its mouth feeding up for ian's well I know that lady would jump in front of a coyote to save that baby she loves that baby but it just it's just all about communication what do you want to do but and but I see it I go out to Texas law because four out of five of my grandchildren Beeville how far you from Bevo have you ever been heard of i
Danielle Cline: t I have I used to live in Corpus Christi so that's close by you like that are you Corpus Christi well you probably have some listeners there I like Austin we'll put it that way I love Austin Austin's my people
Howard: yeah the grandkids like walking on that sure though the Gulf water is is its own special thing and
Danielle Cline: Texans are very proud of their brown Gulf water but basically I just you know I just the lowest thing yeah totally transparent
Howard: I tell him everything I can and then I also notice that people don't start lately you say yeah well hey I'm just want to pull that bone graft put a bunch in plants and fix up like new they're like yeah but then when you hand in a bill eight billion dollars
Danielle Cline: come around a little bit I used to think that dentists shouldn't talk shouldn't give prices as a treatment coordinator when I was in an office I I would yell at my doctor why are you talking prices and the reason why is because it's so wildly fluctuating with insurance and I didn't want them to say oh well the doctor said this was gonna be covered and then they come up to me and you know they're I'm the enemy but I really kind of come around to this thinking and I would be curious about your thoughts I think doctors should be presenting fees in the operatory at least giving a range and letting him know hey if you've got benefits you know they may cover a portion of it but you know this is my fee you may only have to pay a percentage of that but if you have a patient that immediately is like oh my goodness no way in the world am I gonna do that well then you need to have that information in the operatory so that you can give them options and I think doctors I mean you have a lot more experience talking to a lot more people I don't know what doctors are afraid of I really don't this doesn't feel hard to me but you and I think are a little bit different personality
Howard: um I'm convinced the doctor has to say the price to own it and because because here because it depends on where you come in you know a lot of you believe that if you've never had more than say $2,000 in your savings checking out your entire life that any amount over that's gonna be a lot of money but somebody has always has 5,000 in their checking same you know but but if you say a price you gotta say the price first because you don't know if you're the rest your team's can go there and say oh I'm so sorry I'm so sorry yes he needs trained in so many offices everyone's always apologizing for being able to save your tooth I say well why don't you go live in a country where they can't save your tooth right and then you come back here and you'll stop apologizing for it
Danielle Cline: I mean I've had patients that would come up and would cry you know about the price and I would say to them we are saving a body part here this is a body part and if you were replacing an arm you wouldn't bat an eye at whatever the price was and if you like to eat if you enjoy eating meat mrs. Smith then your teeth are contributing to that enjoyment of your food and so it's important I think nobody loves to spend money on dental work nobody does I would much rather take a vacation then get a root canal in a crown that would be so much more fun in the same way that I would much rather take a vacation than replace my toilet if my plumbing stopped working but we like things like bathroom hygiene and we like our teeth and to be able to eat and so I do think teams need to get out of the heads with that and realize the absolute value that we are giving yeah and
Howard: and healthcare it's so emotional I like you always see these countries these people from socialized medicine countries you'll say well I went into the doctor and I had a major operation and it didn't cost me a penny okay so you you believe that everything we've learned in the economics all the Nobel Prize in Economics that price doesn't matter and the consumer shouldn't see the price that that's a good idea who suggested that's a good idea and then when they do the littlest modification like just a 5% co-payment and then you find out your hips $50,000 well different in 50 thousand in New York City and forty thousand dollars in Austin and my sister's roommate cousin lives in B though I just might go down there to save a coping so but with healthcare it's so bizarre how the the biggest expenses are house yet no one believes that anybody can have anything to do with a major operation like say lung cancer it's like well the lung cancer treatment and okay so the person lives in a two hundred and seventy five thousand dollar house the entire lung cancer treatments a hundred grand and you don't think you should know the price have nothing to do with it he was able to find $10 a day to buy a pack of cigarettes every day for 40 years he was able to buy a three hundred thousand dollar house and a hundred thousand dollar Ford 150 but the lung cancer he's a victim and and someone else should take care of everything I mean you have to have skin in the game or your patient is just like an associate at a DSO when the patient
Danielle Cline: yeah I agree with having skin in the game I worked for a practice that did Medicare and I think Medicare is a great benefit for the kids because you know a lot of times these kids they're not going to get the dental care that they need and you and I both know how much that can affect you later in life but a lot of times the parents didn't really value it because they didn't have to pay for it and so I would actually give them the price so we would send them for instance to the oral surgeon to get their wisdom teeth taken out maybe the child 17 and I know they're gonna lose their benefits as soon as they turned 18 and I would tell mom this is gonna cost you $3,000 if you wait until the child's 18th birthday and their eyes would get really big like oh my god it cost so much and I'm like yes you have this benefit please take care of your child because I do think that when you don't have to pay for anything you don't value it
Howard: yeah and I'm so glad you brought Medicare for the international listeners it's it's really absorbent Medicare is a federal program at a Washington DC mostly for over 65 Medicaid is a state Medicaid and Medicare doesn't cover dentistry Medicaid does but what's so interesting it's when I go to these Medicaid health dental congress's I mean I love Public Health dentists the most because there's at least motivated money they got the biggest hearts but they just they know so much about everything except economics and they'll go in there and say well what's your biggest problem no shows I mean we run fifty percent no show rates well guess why that is because they do it because they have no skin in the game yeah so if they no shows the appointment you said okay twenty bucks that you could just say a case of beer okay that's one case of beer if you miss your appointment you're not even gonna make another appointment to give us 20 bucks and when you say that that's right all the public health Dentistlook at you like you're the devil you're a monster how dare you make someone pay for their own body part and it's just on it's how it's how humans work
Danielle Cline: yeah I very much agree with that and I think that having patience for prepay for work is is a really wise move if they're not valuing it because as soon as somebody has the skin in the game like you said they're going to value it and I think also if you are ever discounting your work dear doctor make sure your staff is letting them know how much your fee-for-service cost is anytime I would present even insurance like this is our full price this is the contracted rate that we have with an insurance company with your insurance company and this is what we rest amay ting to be your copay because I want them to understand the value they you know their minds explode because they have to pay two hundred and fifty dollars but really the value of it is twelve hundred and fifty dollars and suddenly they calm down and I'm all about having compassion but I've presented $25,000 cases to patients and handed over the Kleenex you know let them dab their eyes but at the end of the day if you're helping them and they believe that and they want that help you don't have to sell
Howard: um but but when you when you go back to the $25,000 case the reason that number and everybody lists my shows you know what the hell I'm gonna repeat myself on next I'm gonna pull up just to get the exact number but it's an all on four average new car price in America right 360 and the source being Kelly Blue Book and verified by USA Today on average Americans apply thirteen new cars by eight seventy six hey so Anthony so so and then you'll go to Austin Texas and which I love Texas I mean it just it just does so many things economically right it's just economic smart it's a pro-business state and when you say pro-business I don't have a any skinny game I mean it's just math it works or doesn't work I don't care that you don't that you wished it woulda shoulda could have done something else because life isn't what it should have could I mean a grasshopper doesn't wake up every day and wishes he was purple he's just green and these Americans by thirteen new cars and 95% of dentists will practice from age 25 to 65 for decades and never sell one of those persons a full bath $33,000 five every habit in every ZIP code in America and if you don't believe me what you can do is your credit and
Danielle Cline: they'll be proud of that oh they'll be proud of that oh and it's funny you never had one person come into your office that truly needed a full mouth restoration I mean I don't believe an over diagnosing I wouldn't want to work for anybody or with anybody who was wanting to crown every tooth just because you know they wanted to make money but did Street genuinely helps people and an all on four case can change somebody's life so you know a cosmetic case can change the life of that person and I I'm glad you brought up the car payment it's like people don't bat an eye at fifteen or eighteen thousand dollars for a used car but they think it's too much to spend on their mouth I know
Howard: I think he's don't ever get pinched on it I mean and the guy the guy the guy who then I benefited from the most on this whole deal was Omar Reed back in 1987 so here I am I see this course he's given and I drag down there on a Saturday morning and I but yeah I was friends with him ever since in fact I just podcast a little while ago and my gosh he wouldn't even look at the price the numbers he just he just look in the mouth and I would I watched him do this so many times he'd look in the mouthy exam and he'd look at the x-rays and then he'd stand up and he'd say I'm well what do you want to do I mean obviously I could go clean this up the you know just a bunch of fillings and stuff and that's and we'll say that's gonna be two grand or I could make it a little nicer some of those big fillings should have been crowns and everything we'll call that five grand or if you wanted me to go in there and just do the nicest things available and it's ten grand so what I want to know are you thinking two five or ten and they just say you know whatever was and then they said what about injured as a thousand dollar match so if you got insurance we'll just lower the price a thousand dollars and give you your form back I don't even hear
Danielle Cline: exactly that's brilliant it's brilliant and it gives people the options and I mean that's just marketing I mean if I'm gonna go in and want to sell something to you I may have different levels of service no matter what industry you're in and you have to know what your what your customers budget is if they don't have a budget then you know I mean if they're just unwilling to spend any money than I think that again we still have to educate them and explain to them that one way or another you're going to pay for this it's just it's just how is it that you're gonna have a denture later on because you're gonna lose all your teeth or do you want to take care of this the right way and look beautiful right now I think dentists would be amazed by how many people would go yeah okay I can swing it especially if you give them options to help pay for that
Howard: right and it's it's always financing like if you ask any car dealers are great at that car dealers are so awesome at you know making the financing easy but I don't think I'd ever go into a car dealership and and have somebody apologizing for how much my car is gonna cost it just doesn't happen and they get right to the point quick there when you walk in there the first thing they say is you know what kind of payment are you looking exactly what is your budget on a carpet right because it makes a difference I mean are you looking for Mercedes or are you looking for a used hyundai yeah and
Howard: as soon as they get the payment and and Dennis won't do that and you know they'll just they'll start adding up all these things but tell me what are you doing with them I called you to be on the show you didn't call me what's dental mama and incline consulting.com yeah
Danielle Cline: so dental I'm excited about dental mama because it's a way for me to brand myself it's just me the things that I'm passionate about professionally are dental offices and particularly I really love usually you know you the majority of the people who are working in the teams are the women and I think women are such this is dentistry is such a fantastic career field for women single moms particularly because the hours are really great for them they can if they love it they can increase their skills they can increase their pay eventually they could go back to school a little bit and even become a hygienist and that is a great living for a woman to become a hygienist if they don't like the clinical parts that definitely describes me I love dentistry I love the science of Dentistry if I have to be in the room with a periodontist or an oral surgeon I'm gonna get a little woozy I don't necessarily want to see it even if it done just like if I I've taken the numbers when a hygienist is probing and if I start hearing a lot of eight Nine's I'm like I need to sit but I love the science of it I love learning about it Matt end and so people that are in the front of course they can progress and become office managers and or just fantastic treatment coordinators so it's just a great field for women and so I'm passionate about that and I'm just based I mean hopefully you can already tell I love I love patients and I love what we can do for them the other thing that I'm super passionate about is my kids I have an 18 year old son and a 15 year old daughter and they are my absolute proudest achievements I will never do anything better than raising those kids they're they're awesome I have a good relationship with them and I can say that with confidence because it's not going to change they're not perfect and neither am i but I thought you know I'm using your old son and a 15 year old daughter yes yes yeah I have a great relationship with both of them they're they're awesome awesome kids and a lot of what I bring when I was an office manager what I would bring to my teams was how I raised my kids that's a philosophy I believe that I was raising adults and so I made them accountable for their own actions I believe and told them this from a very young age that they should care more about their future than I do that as much as I love them and as much as I want them to do well in this world it's their life I have a life my life is great and as much as it would break my heart if they destroyed their lives for any reason and it would just it would break my heart I still have my life it should break their hearts more and funny enough when I I always felt like I had two books in me I felt like I had a book on on motherhood and I feel like I have a book on running a successful dental office from the from the office manager standpoint and and the longer I stayed in this business the more I realized it's the same book it's the exact same book running a dental team is like successfully parenting people and so I kind of thought I'm like I'm like this dental momma and but my focus on that is going to be on the consumer side so I love patient education as well you mentioned that in my bi that that I really no matter who called the office I was picking up the phone and like what can I do to help you and so I thought there's no button would you agree that pretty much nobody knows about dental insurance or I don't like to call it insurance I'd like to call it benefits but you know right
Howard: right so it's absolutely true I mean insurance is a actuarial so so a hundred people have Al's everybody pays a little bit for fire insurance and you have one drunk Irishman smoking in bed that burns the house down everybody pays a little to cover a lot well auto insurance honor people have auto insurance and your oldest boy is 18 so he should be stacking his first car any day now I have four boys all for my boys totaled one car and two we're fortunate after two total two cars just like their dad and it's funny I never I never wrecked a car after I totaled my I totaled my first one at age 14 my second one at 15 Kansas what it was back then you know I'm born in 62 if you had a firm job so the racket was all these farmers for baling hay they had this deal where you go you go give him a free day labor they'd sign your pink slip and then you get your driver's license at 14 because you needed it for a farm job and then it's a different day and you totaled out so I never totaled a car that I was driving after the legal age of 16 so I'm living proof that you should probably wait
Danielle Cline: my son got his he graduated from high school turned 18 and got his driver's license all in the same week and I told my kids since they were very little that you can get your learner's permit at fifteen but you're not getting your license until you're 18 so he was driving for three years by the time he went off but then he's an adult and graduated and driving and it bout gave me a heart attack I mean I was I was in this panic all the time and I didn't expect that at all but he called me about a month after he got his license and he's like mom I got in a car accident and I'm like okay everybody's okay yes they were so it was actually kind of a major accident nobody was hurt thank goodness but after that I calmed down was like in this I just knew he was gonna I knew he was gonna get in an accident I knew he was he was too arrogant and cocky and didn't understand that you know accidents can actually happen I mean he understood but it's as soon as it happened I was able to calm down I felt like he was safer sounds like you know as soon as you got into an accident you were like okay now I know how this works I don't know it creates some humility
Howard: I think that's needed in young men yeah 15 single parents are is you're are you mostly teaching and dentist office managers is it patients so I have two I have two things going on
Danielle Cline: so dental mom I'll just kind of finish with that that's gonna be a consumer based product where I'm really just gonna be educating consumers through my blog and and so I'll just be writing about things that people are confused about I have a facebook at dental momma it's still pretty new Howard I mean this ideas not very old and so I'm I'm developing it and creating it as I go but the feedback I'm getting from my friends in the industry are like yeah this is something that's necessary if I were to go online and type in you know how do I choose a dental plan I'm gonna get a bunch of ads from the dental insurance companies and then I might get something from like Web MD or maybe there'll be something from BuzzFeed or but there's not a lot of consumer information out there to help people know how to navigate a dental office and my because I'm a friend of dentists and because I believe in dentistry I'm hoping that I'll keep their support because what I'm doing is educating people so that when they come in there's not going to be this battle and this fight of yeah but I have I have double coverage so I shouldn't have to pay anything you know the things that just aren't really true I want to explain why it's not insurance why it really is a benefit and what you're actually getting when you pay for that benefit you're getting your cleanings your exams and your x-rays at your general dentist office and it discounts on other work and if you go to a specialist office all bets are off so if you know I'm hoping that that kind of consumer education portion will take off and be a good resource for people and then Klein consulting is where I go in and work with teams and so what I want to do is sit down with dentists and get their vision and you talked a lot about vision and purpose in your book and how they have to know what their purpose is and I think especially dental teams that are hiring younger workers you know we're talking the Millennials here these kids want purpose I loved how you talked about that in your book talked about purpose because everybody wants purpose I think what you said was nobody wants to get up and eat and go to work and then die they want to contribute and if if they don't feel like they have a purpose and a contribution to make they're at the place that they're working at then it's just a job they're just coming in and trading money for time and just getting a paycheck and this isn't the kind of employee that is going to stay with you a long time that's gonna really care about your patients and care about your business and so the only way to avoid that one is to hire correctly and to know what you like the doctor has to know what his or her vision is and they have to be able to vision cast and doctors aren't great at that and sometimes they don't even know what it is so I can go in and find out what your vision is it doesn't take a lot it's just it's just an intentional interview that's very guided and then you know meet with the team and be like this is our purpose this is our goal I don't think it's like super different between dental offices but everybody has their own culture and their own way of doing it and this is this is you know how your doctor is doing it and this is the greater purpose in that and this is what we're doing and it's almost like being a team cheerleader and then there's of course the training and the language that people use and presenting options and teaching people not to be apologetic but I don't think that that has to come from the heart it there has to be an understanding of the value that you are truly giving so that you don't feel apologetic I don't think we can just go into an hour and say stop apologizing for the price I have to explain to them the value of what they're offering that they should be proud to be presenting this treatment
Howard: I mean doing things you hate for money is not gonna end well no I mean some of these professions you know you know what why do you think 90% of all prostitutes are heroin hacks I'm serious they don't like their job and now so a lot of dentists will say to me I mean they're living in a great country they're rich they got family and they're on dental town like I'm burned out I burn burn rates really high in this profession well it's all relative I mean after after a 14 year long war with Afghanistan that I mean they you know I mean 14 years they won't just shut that thing down they actually have 26 suicides a day so when I hear a dentist say that dentistry has a high suicide rate I just want to send him to Afghanistan tonight right
Danielle Cline: I have a lot of veteran friends so thanks for thanks for the shout out to the troops
Howard: yeah that's tough they make everyone else look like we're is this like when police always in Phoenix on they always defend their behavior by they you know they have a dangerous job say dude they have one seventh the death rate of fishermen it's seven times more today I mean go golf you're you know how many times I've been out there red fishing and and the danger about redfish has two things the storms can pop up quick and you drink so much of that yellow gasoline kool-aid thing that you're not making good decisions but I mean but yeah but you know this year I don't know man 2 kgs they always they always bring this yellow stuff that just tastes great and you just think it's a refreshing drink rum or something but but helium you know so um but anyway did us always have anybody but I tell them I said you know you you're a great country here you make you know the average median household income can is under 50,000 you're making 175 I mean you're almost making three total households worth the money and you're miserable working yeah you don't work weekends or evenings you're doing something incredibly wrong what is wrong I want to go back to your your website in your books and your blogs all I can stuff because on your website that it says the top part deal is on your case accepting should be higher I will get you there is that a big part of what you're doing and what are you doing to help dental teams increase their case acceptance
Danielle Cline: well again I think it's the it's training aspect certainly but beyond but before training happens I think that there has to be vision casting so you know the kind of the macro how I do out of micro how I do that is getting in and talking to the doctor and doing a guided interview to really understand what he's about and who he is who he dentists are not the heroes of their own story or they shouldn't be the patients should be the hero of the story so who's their ideal patient who are they really trying to help dentists are the guides they're the ones who are gonna guide them to the correct choice and there are good things that can come from those good choices and there are bad things that can happen if you don't make those right choices and a lot of times they don't like to say what the bad things are that will happen if they don't make those choices but we do need to identify those things so that we can recognize it when we see it and gently guide people into the good choices I mean if you're the guide then that's our job once the dentist understand I think if somebody's gonna hire me they're probably not doing this well right because if they were doing it really great they probably wouldn't need to call a coach or a consultant I think every dentist can use that but I'm probably dealing with people that are a little bit more in me like starting out or not doing great in that area I think if you're doing awesome in those areas there's probably other ways that you can really bring it to the next level I can work with teams then and so then I go in and I train the teams I give them some systems that work every office is different so what works and one I think there's some Universal things that will work in all offices are certain tracking that needs to happen the reports I mean like you've said over and over in your book watch your numbers I mean they have to be watching their numbers the team has to have their own numbers that they're watching and I think the biggest number that a team that that a front desk team should be watching is case acceptance if the team has no idea what the case acceptances then they really don't know their scorecard they don't know what they're doing case acceptance of course a higher case acceptance is gonna is gonna mean more it's gonna be an increase to production for the dentist's it means that you're helping more patients get the work that they need and if there's a bonus structure then it means that you can make more money so I think that that is the number that has to be watched really really closely for front desk teams and there's not many that are doing that and so that is what I would what I do is go in and show them how to watch that number
Howard: so um again you know there's eight billion people living on the earth and even though 70% of its ocean I mean no one lives on Antarctica you know I mean humans only live on a little bitty part of the surface I mean more than half of humans don't even live on 5% of the surface but when you go around the country like there's no dental insurance in most of the world and when I'm lecturing in China they think it's moral hazard and it is because if your cavity is because you drink dr. pepper any Cheetos for breakfast why does your boss or Obama have to pay for it and but in America you know you buy your own house you buy your own car but I mean my body what do I have to do with my body um they got the $10 a day for a Marlboro from age 16 to 66 but then they want a million dollar free heart lung liver transplant paid for by the yoga instructor who's across the street vegan I mean none of it makes sense but I want to get specific probably the most common phone call that every receptionist takes is hi my name is Daniel Klein do you take my insurance exactly so first question people hi again in the 20 socialized countries they don't ask that in China
Danielle Cline: least important question that somebody can ask so what you have to have is a front desk person who knows how to guide that question that's what the consumer is gonna ask that is what they think is the most important thing to them but I think that with the right training and verbal skills and understanding of what you're providing it's not that difficult to guide that person who's saying okay I'm calling but before I go any further do you take my insurance and I'm always cheerful about that sure will tell me what your insurance is well I'm with ABC Insurance Company you know what and I love it I love it when they're out of network now I work with teams that much prefer in-network they much prefer that cuz it makes it easy okay you gotta stop you
Howard: stop you stop you stop yeah one fourth of my listeners are in dental school they're you know what network out of network so slow down Spanky explain to the kids explain to the kids in dental kindergarten school what that network and in that workout network means
Danielle Cline: okay so a network is or being in network means that you the dentists have contracted with an insurance company to take a lower rate and then they will pay a percentage of that rate depending on whether the care is they classify as preventative basic or major and you are willing to take that lower contracted rate because they will send patients to you so if you are in an area where the largest employer uses Delta Dental and you want to get those 2,000 people that work for that company into your dental practice then you have to contract with Delta Dental in order for them to list you on their website as a contracted in-network provider now and if it's a PPO plan which means preferred provider organization then that means that the patient can go anywhere they want they don't have to go to an in-network Network dis dentist it's just that if they want that lower contracted rate then they have to go to the in-network one because if you're out of network you can still see all of those patients it's just that you don't have to agree to those lower contracted rates you're not listed on their website but and there's advantages to that there's advantages to the dentist being in network or out of network of course the market is there's a marketing advantage to being in network you're just automatically listed on websites a lot of people will only go to an in-network dentist but an out of network dentist is gonna have more freedom because they don't have to take those lower fees so I'll give you an I'll give you a real-life money example I worked for an endodontist that their fee for a molar root canal not a retreat a molar root canal was fourteen hundred and three dollars why was L three what would the three come from the three I'm sorry what did I say that was the three there's 1,400 1200 1400 three well yeah it's it's a good question I don't have three dollars hundred and three dollars it's kind of arbitrary yes but we'll say $1400 and I will tell you that the contracted rate from Delta sugar can I count can I give this information yeah the contracted rate with Delta Dental this is for a specialist this isn't even a general dentist this specialist was 864 dollars and how much they charge his fee was 1403 but he had to write off everything - 864 so it's like what a 40% right off its kind of its high okay and
Howard: what percent of his molar root canals were insurance driven at the 864 feet like 10% half all those numbers are gets tracked so
Danielle Cline: I would say he had an associate and he had he had a few associates and so in the front because the the owner of the practice is paying the bonuses is paying the electricity is paying everybody's payroll he got more self pay and out-of-network and the higher paying ones so the lower ones were going more towards the associates like the Delta dentals and MetLife they're terrible their fee schedules are really low and I would say for them it was probably a good 50% of theirs was insurance was Delta Dental MetLife driven its high so there is a struggle there I mean I'm a huge I think that the entire dental industry should like wash their hands of insurance and all go fee-for-service I think that would be brilliant but I understand that it's just not possible in today's day and age I think dental plans that offices are offering in-house doing a dental savings plan that the office provides themselves is brilliant it has the same benefits as insurance and it creates loyalty and I wish more dentists would go to that
Howard: well I mean do you think that if you could if it was really easy just drop all insurance to go fee-for-service I mean what percent of dentists do you think there's two hundred eleven thousand Americans living today license to practice dentistry how many of them do you think do not participate in insurance
Danielle Cline: I wish I knew that answer Howard do you know it do you know
Howard: it's under five percent it's probably three percent and they're usually fee-for-service yeah and they you and and most everyone that says they're fee-for-service they don't know what it means because I say well do you take Delta yeah it's like when you ask him their labor you say what's labor about twenty percent does that include FICA matching they don't even know that uniform so when you're listening to dentist talk about their numbers that mean their and you should ask you know they don't know their numbers that's not their wheelhouse but yeah it's it's a
Danielle Cline: if you want to make more money and work like and and not have to work as many hours to make that money then get a consultant that's good get some watching your numbers learn about these things because I definitely believe that more than 5% of doctors can survive out there doing it I just think there's a lot of fear there I mean it's scary to do that I get it but if you're providing exceptional care and you have a team that is rowing in the same direction that you are you will dominate your industry
Howard: I believe that but the ones who are selling exceptional Dentistry that people are paying mercedes-benz prices for it there they're all instructors working on dentists I mean you know that that's how a lot of these dentists make a lot of money they they they set up their TMJ they set up their clinics and you sit there and you look at their business model say man what what's really driving this and then it's like that dentist will pay that guy 25 but but back to the 324 million Americans that little niche market for 211,000 dentists that will come in and pay for that it's kind of a but anyway I already get back to the feet on the fire we live in America we don't live in China the Chinese people it gives them a migraine when they start thinking that you smoked you bought a pack of Marlboro every day for 40 years and then when you need $100,000 lung treatment even though you bought a $300,000 house and $100,000 for a pickup truck that your government should pay for the lung cancer you know how to wrap their mind around this moral hazard a value dentistry in China with cash cash they don't buy today do they do they have good teeth don't Lee okay so that's a the short answer is they have very very healthy diets throughout their 5,000 year history and then they went to a one baby per family rule so now you got a baby so it's got two parents and those two parents have to burn so you have six people working for a little boo-boo and then then and they started all this Western trade in subsidy they bring them treats and it's you know Hershey's and coca-cola and all of a sudden yeah so so I actually was let you know I blush last 30 years I actually got to meet the first pediatric dentist in New Delhi in Hong Kong in Shenzhen and and in China it was um it was just so sad because nobody knew they were harming their child they were bringing it treats so do do Chinese have great teeth not if he gets two parents and four grandparents bringing fruits all day on you have nine cavities but the adults it's so obvious in all of Asia from all of Asia has significantly less decay from significantly less consumption of sugar but their children is its can it's a game changer because their children are growing up on pop and soda and all that kind of a yeah and then when you get to Africa then you don't know what I laugh or cry because that the problem you know Africa is a billion two hundred million people so Africa has the same number of people as North and South America which has the same numbers into you're trying change like eight billion three and he's a billion to Africa's ability but in Africa all the doctors are saying drink coke because they don't want you to go to a creek or well and drink color and so coca-cola bottles yeah so so they chose cavities and and that's missed and be alive so so so dentistry is always complex it's not an easy deal I think it is so hilarious that orthodontists think that um and smiles direct clubs gonna put them out of business I always say they're not as I say well you know they are because I mean come on you don't work I mean you don't do you don't do anything and when you come home you're not even tired and they like are you out of your mind they come home exhausted I'm tired and I'm like so then you're working that's not gonna be replaced by an oral story I mean there's a reason it
Danielle Cline: what my replaced is the bad ones you know if you're not good at what you do then you know I just think be excellent and I mean I think it's amazing what you do with dental town you built a community to dentist so that they have a place to go so that they they're not alone and it is a lonely profession for dentists but you can't help everybody you can't and but I don't I don't think it's rocket science I really don't I think that there's basic business principles that you follow and you love people and you care about what you do and you could be okay I mean people are funny and weird and don't want to pay and but not everybody like you said there's eight billion people on the planet now I still thought there was seven people are having a lot of babies yeah
Howard: well actually that is I love statistics I love figures because I'm you know there's nothing that can change your opinion more than a fact you know I mean and so um when they say there's eight billion people the first thing you have to realize that nobody has any idea I was having I was having breakfast or lunch or branches on with the president of the Chinese Dental Association so my first question was how many dentists are in China right and he just laughed he said and when we say we have a billion 300 million that's plus or minus a hundred million when India says they have 1.2 that's plus or minus in fact if you take China's low estimate to India's highest India's more Felidae you don't know I mean I mean so my definition in their pen so does my definition of adenosine someone whose sole job is dentistry and in some countries that's a nine-month program some countries that's eight to ten twelve years but all they're doing is dentistry but anyway they they don't know but but basically China has the same number of full-time dentists for you we have a hundred and fifty thousand general dentists working 30 hours a week or more and so does China with five times as many people which shows you how dietary of an impact decay diabetes obesity these are very behavioral driven diseases so taking out price responsibility taking all skin out of the game and and putting you in a victim mode which so many countries are trying to do it and those 20 countries that are all doing it are basically about 40 trillion dollars in debt and and that could you know which could you know which is a whole nother dilemma on this problem but yeah III think dentistry and when you the bottom line is this when you take out insurance and what insurance is it's not insurance because insurance is not actual it's not auto insurance or furniture it's a benefit paid by someone else don't understand that yes we have to educate them like you know when so when you go to the bar and someone buys you drink it's a benefit it's not insurance it's just a benefit we like this we never say no and then but we're there is a team of sales people like Delta who every day is banging on doors that employ 50 or more people trying to get them to get dental insurance in those 20 countries dentistry and dentists make twice as much money because when you take out the insurance people selling employers and other people to pay for this now you're back to the dentist he doesn't want to sell anything he'll even tell you don't want to sell anything and then dentistry has a lot less frills and bells and whistles
Danielle Cline: but you know what Howard we live in the world we live in right so we have to deal with the realities unless things change you know we do have to deal with the realities that this is what the consumers think they think they have insurance and they're angry when they find out otherwise and if you go online I'm sure you've done this where you've looked at other offices Yelp or Google reviews if you're if you're it's so interesting go look at the one-star reviews I it is almost always about finances they nickel and dime me they didn't tell me everything I needed upfront they said that this was going to be covered and then it wasn't and then I had to get this bill afterwards and so it's so important that because this is the world we live in and because this is a misconception that the general public has that that a dentist hires a front staff team or at least gets than the training that they need to educate the patients about their financial options and is willing to tell them that you know what miss Smith this is not actually insurance that you have you have a benefit and this is and so because you're paying your premiums please come in why see or for your cleanings that's what your premiums are paying for if you don't want to come in twice a year for your cleanings you really should just drop your plan and then just put money into the savings account for the work that you're gonna need you're gonna need treatments eventually if you're not going to take advantage of that and I think if we and when you tell people that and I know this is true because I did it for since 2007 I've been in offices educating patients about their plans and they are so grateful and I I'm always shocked well I guess I'm not shocked anymore because I'm used to it but people are like thank you so much for explaining this to me thank you for telling me people want to understand and so we live in the world we live in you're gonna have to deal with insurance if you're not fee for service if you don't want to have one-star reviews and you don't want to have people walking away mad at you because they have to pay money then get a staff that's educated and trained
Howard: so what do you what do you what do you what's your go-to say when they talk the phone and say I do this some people recommend that when they asked well you know what what do you bring that in when you get here and
Danielle Cline: we'll know where their idea terrible idea no get the information on the phone what I will tell people if they're out of network so we'll go back to that conversation if somebody calls and we are not contracted with their plan they'll say do you take my insurance that's how they say it do you take my insurance and if it's not a company that my doctor is contracted with then what I say to them is we don't have a direct contract with that company but you still can come in and see our office we're gonna file the claim for you you will still get a reimbursement from them now if financial considerations are your main concern then you should probably find an in-network provider but read reviews there's a reason why you called our office if you you know cuz any office I worked in I'm looking to get those five-star reviews and if I worked in a specialty office you know I say to them my doctor has a relationship with your doctor and so there's a reason why you were sent here you're going to get superior care in our office we're gonna take really good care of you and make sure that you can get all of the benefits that are coming to you with your insurance with with you know Delta dental or MetLife or whatever it is but if financial considerations are your main concern and I tell them that and sometimes it is if a patient if patients don't have money and finances are the main consideration maybe they are better off going to an in-network doctor and there's some great especially with general dentists I mean I think if a patient has insurance find an in-network general dentist unless you've already been established with one and they offer an in-house savings plan I just think the in-house savings plans are better all-around but I think that there's good advantages to coming to to seeing the doctor that you want who has the best reviews who you know is gonna give you great care and patients appreciate that you'd be amazed how many people will say no I want to come to your office I already like you I can already tell you're gonna take care of me boom and
Howard: what percent do you think of Americans are mainly shopping on Walmart Southwest Airlines IKEA Price benefits and what percent and do you think are paying extra for more than that well how do you break down I think
Danielle Cline: I think most of them I mean I don't have exact percentages but I would say most people are looking for the the smartest ways to spend their money I mean obviously people that have a lot of money are certainly looking to do that that's there's a reason why they have more money they're making smart decisions people that have no money have sometimes no choice but to you know really try to find a bargain but people also really value service we in America we provide we are a service-oriented economy more of our of our goods is service related than it is actually manufactured goods and so we do value good service in this country and so if you're setting yourself apart as a dentist as somebody who is going to give them amazing service and is going to be incredibly transparent about the price and help them out as much as you can they'll come to you even if they have to more when I'm getting an estimate at my for maybe a project I'm doing at home and I bring in five painters to give me an estimate or five electricians I don't necessarily go and hire the lowest price I may not be able to afford the highest price but I want to get the best quality that I can at a price I can afford and I don't think dentistry is any different it's just that doctors don't under in teams don't understand this concept and so they're afraid to speak it out loud and they lose they lose and and if they're really amazing teams and they're really amazing clinicians the the people who are really losing are the patients if you are a great dentist with amazing clinical skills you owe it to people who need your your care to get the best team on on your on your staff so that people are getting your benefits
Howard: um you know there's so many different markets and one is you know it's a great strategy to be the cheapest you start of the show it's a great strategy to be an expert I'm starting to think about all this as time goes on and on and when you look at these numbers the average net income for dentists dental specialists is 320 320 thousand dollars your general dentist a hundred ninety seven sets two hundred so basically dental specialist 320 general dentists two hundred Dennis who own their own practice make 244 Dennis their employees make 144 I mean so you know it's not you'll make you'll take them a hundred thousand dollars a year more if you own your office and work for someone else you'll make a hundred thousand dollars a year more if you just do one thing and you started this show with you know that there's always room for an expert there's always you know the best advice ever is you know if you'd be adenosine Beeville Texas be the best damn Dennis and Viva absolutely somebody has to be the best it might as well be you and you know who pays for a lot of that best dentistry um the dentist who does it cutting corners and slops it all is listen implants you know you're put in some slot you do it wrong you don't do it right you don't take the course and then they go call the State Board or an attorney and the next thing you're doing is paying a dentist $50,000 cash to redo it and when I look at some of the most cash practice implantologists you don't take any insurance do all these big cases a lot of their cases are rework and half of them are paid by another dentist so if your patient can't afford to get the dentistry done right then what you should do is do it real crappy and then a year later you don't really believe that though no absolutely true it's absolutely true every time these dentists cut corners they're gonna pay for it in the end and so like every
Danielle Cline: every hammer is worth $2,500 I heard once you know it's like you can get a cheap one and keep buying it over and over and over again or you can get the best one at the start I worked with a periodontist and you know the common question was you know yeah I want this implant but I've heard so many horror stories and I would say to a patient you know do you know those billboards that you see on the street like implants for you know ninety nine dollars I said that's where the horror stories come from you're here paying a premium price for an implant because you don't want to be one of those horror stories but you it does start with excellent clinical care I mean I don't want to work with every dentist you don't want to work with every patient I don't want to work with every dentist I want to work with dentists who strive to be excellent because I believe my my purpose and my vision is helping people so at the end of the day I want to give patients really great dentistry and if you're a doctor that can do that I want to make sure everybody knows about it
Howard: yeah I can't believe we've already gotten over an hour and 10 minutes is there anything you want to do is there anything you were planning on talking about it that I didn't bring out that you wish I did
Danielle Cline: no I think this has been a great great talk coward and I just appreciate you coming on you know being transparent I'm pretty new right now my prices are pretty cheap I think I bring a lot of value to the table and but because I'm just starting I need those skins on the wall I I'm not just starting I bring a lot of experience to the table but I have not you know I'm still I'm looking for clients I'm looking to bring people in and help them out and I'm willing to do that at a pretty low price right now because I'm just getting started and so if you're in the Austin Texas area of course I would love to work with you dental mom is something that I'm gonna it's it's kind of my project that I'm gonna continue working on and hopefully gain some traction as time goes on and you know maybe in the future we could talk about that again
Howard: I just love the fact that you weren't afraid to come out and do a closed and come out and and say exactly what you wanted that you you want some more clients and you're doing it business and this is what my dentist won't do they just won't look at the mouth and say Danielle I mean I mean what do you want to do I mean we could patch you up for a thousand I mean we could do it a little a lot nicer for two thousand but it you want what I would want for my mouth you're looking at five thousand dollars what
Danielle Cline: I want to do and she just said hey she wants more clients so you want to work mostly in Austin yes in the Austin area I'm willing to travel but doctor God well I mean but Texas is a country I mean how many is it is so I did have somebody contact me and say would I be willing to go to Dallas for instance and with travel costs of course I would be willing to do that but the Austin areas where I'm located and so that would be you know those are the doctors of course that I would love to work with the most because I'll be able to give them the most attention I'm right here and what do you and
Howard: who would be your perfect client
Danielle Cline: my perfect client would be somebody who is struggling who who knows he's a good doctor and who is struggling because he's got high staff turnover maybe he doesn't understand what's going on up front he knows that he's diagnosing treatment and he doesn't understand where those patients are going I want come in and help him with that I will say this and it's a tricky thing and I think you'll agree with me if a team is having problems you have to look to the leader you really do and there was one thing I did want to mention I loved loved loved in your book how you said leadership the most important characteristic of a leader is somebody who wants to win and I've always I'm very competitive and that's always I think particularly because I'm a woman has been seen as it's been a little looked down upon if I'm playing a board game with you I want to win I mean I'm a good loser but I want to win and I want you to want to win because then it's gonna be more fun to beat you and that's a little bit how I feel about insurance companies like I love when a patient accepts treatment because I feel like for that patient i won I love getting claims paid you know when I was doing that because I felt like I was winning with that I want a dentist who wants to win but sometimes the dentist is the problem and sometimes sometimes he is I'm being diplomatic because I want to work with these doctors okay I would like to work with a doctor who probably suspects that maybe he's doing something a little wrong and he's not sure what it is and if he's willing to listen to what I have to say and he's willing to let me come in and work with his team and he's willing to be like you know what whatever it takes I want to be successful at this that is my ideal client I would do backflips to get a doctor who was like I know that I'm probably the problem what do I need to do okay so
Howard: so you're saying you only want to work on three dentists exactly so I sort of say one more thing for that yo cuz we're over time but when you say sometimes a test is a problem well the dentist there's only two problems either the dentist is the problem or the dentist knows that toxic nightmare over there needs fired and they and there's threads on dental town I'm like I'm like I just want to log on and say what does she have to do this you have to come in in like pistol-whip yeah and what does this woman does she have to drive Park her car in the waiting room I mean right they list like two years of toxic behavior and they're still like what do you think I should do I don't know I mean I I personally believe that about 5% of all humans are only alive because it's illegal to shoot them and that's how you really feel well they wanted to be a doctor and help you do surgery there's nothing I love more I don't want to go play golf if someone is walking into my office and they're in severe pain I've always told my staff you know then they say well you know we're closing lunch of 12:00 it's like no you go to the emergency room at 1:00 in the morning and wait three hours to be seen so I see all that you know to to get someone out of pain that that's that's what we do and so um I just don't understand I'm I think that mentality of someone who wants to be a doctor and help you with their healing hands that to turn on and fire somebody is not in their wheelhouse maybe it's even talking money I mean how do I so I I just don't think they have the personality to fire no
Danielle Cline: so they need somebody on their team who can do it and that I can help with so if you know that it's not something that you're good at then you have to have you have to have the right people that will do it for you
Howard: exactly if you don't I mean right we just saw a little while ago I mean when you do things you don't like to do for money it leads to disease depression and you can see it at these um these really tough jobs they all have bars right where the employees all leave the factory and and and all that kind of stuff like that so you got to find out why you're unhappy I mean it's not you live in a great country I'd rather be alive today than 1800 1769 solutely I mean there's you know I mean you look back at how they lived and and all the so hard so it's great to be life so why are you miserable and I think Dennis the number one thing reason they're miserable is because they work with people that make them miserable and you don't you don't you know or they're in an you know they say I can't get divorced I got two kids and say it's like you should see the questions they're putting on Donald I well my my wife wants to buy this and do this and get a cabin and remodel that and and he's like dying from working all day long but and the same guy will get on there and preach that you know the government should cut benefits and Social Security that they should be real tough on hundreds of millions of people you know yeah this guy can't even stand up to Muffy you guys you got one person to stand up to at the office it's your hygienist and you don't you got one spouse it's fear so you know
Danielle Cline: they need help I'm there huckleberry all right so how do they contact you they can call me um I'll give you my phone number is that good it's three three six one six five eight six four nine zero they can go onto my website Klein consulting.com and I do have a contact area there get to know me just a little bit better there and you or send me an email at Danielle at Cline consulting calm and Cline is a CC Li and E so it's CC Clineconsulting.com new email dental or dental mama at claim yes I will do that I will do that this week Howard just for you it's so funny I'm calm because Dennis are you know I get that the grammar nazis all the time they're saying yeah you put doctor dude you're four percent of America
Howard: nobody in Saudi Arabia knows that CA is California and not Canada and and when you're looking at Islamic name you don't know if Danielle is a boy or a girl right and I I just keep giving everything i mama's pretty clear yeah well and so many people are English as a second language and if your English is a second language dental mama is a lot easier than Danielle and and I'm sorry and nobody knows for an eye you know just anyway Danielle flying with a see Danielle claims she wants more clients in Austin Texas due to Kline consulting with a seat clanking soldier I am call your dental mama and and all I'm gonna say is for the last time over and over and over you're not gonna get a return on investment on $100,000 CBC T that five years from now is gonna be like your Motorola flip phone blackberry then you'll want a new one every doctor you go to that needs an MRI or a cat scan just send you somewhere else and everybody does that and it's no issue you're not gonna get the return on a hundred thousand dollar laser or 150 thousand dollar chairside all this stuff isn't why you're broke why you're broke is you're just not getting your done you're not making decisions and you never will ever earn a gold medal without a coach and every fortune 500 CEO that I've ever met because I flown I've got over a million miles with a couple different airlines America and every time you fly over a million miles hell yeah I know I flew on my own I'm the dumbass that did it but the bottom line is you get to meet a lot of people and when you're ever sitting next to the elites you know the fortune 500 see yeah I'll say do you do you have a coach oh my god I got it and they got five yeah this one this one yeah I don't want to help me drink because I'm now feza but Danielle crying thank you so much for coming on the show it was such an honor and a privilege thank you so much Howard for having me.