Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
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1469 Paul Lowry of The Dental Menu on Membership Plans & Patient Retention : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

1469 Paul Lowry of The Dental Menu on Membership Plans & Patient Retention : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

9/28/2020 3:00:00 AM   |   Comments: 0   |   Views: 70
Paul Lowry is the CEO and co-founder of the Dental Menu.  From 2008-2017 Paul helped dental offices generate thousands of new patients. After analyzing the data from those new patients, he found that people without dental insurance were more difficult to attract and retain.  Many of the offices he worked with had membership plans, but they failed to provide an adequate solution. In 2017 he co-founded the Dental Menu. Paul earned a bachelor’s degree in Advertising and Marketing from Brigham Young University and a master’s degree in Business Administration from Utah State University. When Paul isn’t immersed in work, he enjoys teaching, spending time with his wife and 6 children, dirt biking, fishing, and being outdoors.
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It is just a huge honor for me today to be podcast interviewing Paul Lowery the CEO and co-founder of the dental menu from 2008 to 2017 Paul helped dental offices generate thousands of new patients after analyzing the data from those new patients he found that people without dental insurance were more difficult to attract and retain many of the offices he worked with had membership plans but they failed to provide an adequate solution in 2017 he co-founded the dental menu dental menu is a complete platform that allows dental providers to offer subscription plans directly to their patients dentists can easily create a menu of services for their patients empowering them to select and build a plan that suits their needs and budget their platform creates a simple path to more patients spending more money in the practice it allows dental practices to finally have a solid alternative to dental insurance so Paul earned his bachelor's degree in advertising and marketing from Brigham young university and a master's degree in business administration from Utah state when he isn't immersed in work he enjoys teaching spending time with his wife and six children dirt biking fishing and being outdoors my god that sounds like how I grew up in Kansas I’ll never forget it in phoenix when I had four boys and police were always coming back to me because my boys were riding a go-cart or a mini bike down the street and I’m like and that's the and there's something wrong with that and uh I mean I used to tell them all the time uh well anyway it was just tough but it's a lot more fun to grow up in rural America than it is big city phoenix where you're not even allowed to ride a go-kart down the street um my gosh um you know I wanted to get you on the show I called you didn't call me because when I talk to my dental insurance CEOs they're telling me that 40 million American’s have lost their jobs and 30 million of those had insurance and all the data shows I mean we all know if you want more of something subsidize it uh through the employer or the government and if you want less of something tax it regulate it make it more expensive and if there's 30 million Americans that lost their dental benefits um this pandemic isn't going to end soon I mean even if they even if the virus disappeared today you lost 40 million jobs 30 million have dental insurance and I mean did you see that study on yelp review where yelp has released that big study saying um seeing what percentage of their businesses that used to get reviews are now closed for business and not coming back and empty and all that kind of stuff what does that say where is your mind at um for the fall I see you post on dental town about you know a lot of people are worried about October but where do you see October November December going right now and right now it's uh the first day of fall uh for 90 of um dentists live in the northern hemisphere and for the 10 of the humans in the southern hemisphere it's the first day of spring but what is this what does this tell you what do you think in the fall is going to be like yeah well obviously dennis is really worried about October and it's funny because a lot of them are sticking their heads in the sand and okay we're going to take time off and what are you going to do six months after October it's just going to keep coming back and we're seeing just like you said the easiest people to convert onto your membership plan are going to be those that are used to having dental benefits they feel we've done research with people that have lost their benefits they feel naked like oh I can't access dental care because they've had benefits for so long they don't realize you don't need insurance it's not like going to a hospital and you have to be part of this network in order to access care um so we're finding great success with even marketing you know you get into the Dentrix you look at the database and we're marketing your patients mark that they have insurance but we're getting them to join the membership plan because exactly what you're saying they really don't have insurance anymore and so there's a lot of patience that that you're at risk of losing if you don't reach out to them because you don't know they usually don't call their dentist and say hey I lost my job I don't have benefits they usually just kind of don't call and don't come back in so the reactivation the new patient marketing those types of things are obviously really important if you want to recover from covid and men are not as honest as women about money issues I mean uh men minutes it's a to dis on their self when they they're not a provider when they don't have dental insurance I mean it's a it's a big strike against your ego it seems like women are have always been more easy to say I’m having financial trouble I got laid off my husband the women are just uh they wear their heart on the sleeves and they'll just tell you about the men when it comes to they can't afford enough money they just quit talking and go away don't they yeah exactly right so it's always but trying to get those patients in during October November December you know that's my background is a lot of marketing and really what we're finding it's no it's no secret that the uninsured patients are harder to attract and retain but we took we looked at 250 000 patients over these different offices and it was interesting Howard because we took and looked at the first visit date so we kind of categorized them into birth dates if you will into a practice over all of these years and across all these practices patients that didn't have dental insurance only eight percent of them have been into a dental office within the last two years so it's kind of mind-boggling so think about it we get a hundred new patients we look at those five years down the road and there's only eight out of those hundred that have been back to the office in the last two years it's crazy so I had a lot of offices calling saying hey I want to get new patients preferably I want to get patients without insurance and it was always well why and what's your plan and you know a lot of them like I say have membership plans but the membership plans that are out there really aren't fitting for today's patients and what I mean by that I’m sure you've seen membership pages aren't new no membership programs aren't new but most the plans are something like an exam twice a year cleanings twice a year some sort of annual x-rays 15 20 off of treatment it's 300 a year and boom we have a membership plan and you know those are okay but when you're really looking at trying to impact your practice large scale and be able to influence people to come into your office those typically don't have the desired outcome that the really doctors are looking for it's just this little sideshow that they have hey I know I should have a membership plan so I have one now what does it include I don't know half the staff doesn't even know what it is that they have one so it isn't making the impact that it's designed to have I want to um somebody posts on downtown October and November hygiene schedules are anybody else's November October November hygiene schedules a graveyard what are your strategies for these two months and you said we are finding success reactivating patients without insurance using membership plans and reactivating patients with insurance with an incentive to schedule in October to use their benefits here's a process we have been doing for some offices you can do this yourself or find a marketing come to help you pull up a list of uninsured patients that haven't been into your office for a year or more send out an email text and direct mail piece this can be spaced out or close together we're finding success sending an email and a text the same day the text message reference the email about a week later we send an email piece the email text and mail piece all have to link to a landing page okay now my uh a quarter of my listeners they're still in dental kindergarten school so you're cruising over their head and a lot of them are just out of school um will you answer this um now to them in a language they can understand they don't know what a landing page is and all that stuff sure so really what you're doing is any of your marketing your email your text your social you know these different these different communication mediums you're pushing out to your patients and a lot of the a lot of the products out there that the offices buy they think well I need this program to send emails or I you know I need to send text messages or I know I need to be on social these different things they know they should do something but what you've got to think about is what are you asking that patient to do if I’m simply saying hey Howard you need to come in and take care of your teeth like most people don't want to go to the dentist it's not really high on their priority so what you've got to do is motivate them and you need your messaging to be able to send them somewhere if you think of any kind of marketing like a magnet you're trying to get them to go and learn more so that they want to take action what dentists do really well at is they do well at restorative treatment because the biggest motivator is pain so if somebody is in a lot of pain they're going to jump on google they're going to search root canal they don't care what it costs they're calling they're coming in but when you're trying to get a lot of patience let's say to fill a hygiene schedule in October November they aren't in pain so they don't want to come in and spend money necessarily we're all kind of we like our time we're kind of lazy and so filling hygiene is a little different than restorative is easy because you just have to find those patients that are in pain they're going to come in and so when you're doing this marketing a landing page is simply a simple web page it kind of a one-page thing where patients you can have a very concise message hey here's what we want you to do hit this this website address and then that's going to tell them exactly what to do where you capture that information you're kind of leading them on sales a sales process so to speak now um you said the landing page includes a short video that discusses the value of preventative care and hygiene um I remember the internet started I mean jeff bezos and by the way i'll I confess I’m an idiot I mean um I had my MBA and I think 89 or whatever but I mean amazon went public in 94 and I was just like what I kept looking at the value I stared at 94 95 96 97 98 before I said okay I understand and I started dental time but I started that thing for five minutes but he specifically said um you know it looks like we sell books but the internet is so slow and the pipes are so small that we can only send a text message as it gets bigger we'll add images and then when it gets bigger we add video um do you think right now with all the video and YouTube and all that stuff that um your website's gotta have video as opposed to a text and a picture of a dentist it looks like his mug shot at two o'clock in the morning yeah absolutely that's what they're gonna watch so again if you send out some emails with a video or you send out emails with that they're gonna watch the videos and so the challenge with those obviously they're harder to develop that's one of the things we can help offices with but sure absolutely they're gonna watch more video same thing on the social just having some posts with some sort of video component is gonna help and what you're trying to do is educate you know if you can get a patient in front of a doctor or hygienist and they have time to actually educate them typically then they're going to respond and so how do you do that outside your office how do you get some of that attention to get them to be educated that they should come in for a hygiene visit what's the value of the hygiene now as you know Howard we have thousands of new patient phone calls so new patient calls the first thing they usually ask is do you accept my dental insurance and if the answer is yes we do and that front desk scale sounds like she works for the insurance company it's almost comical of you work for the insurance company here's what you get here's what you don't get and if they don't have dental insurance the first thing they ask is how much does it cost and so the problem is I I heard one the other day patient calls in how much does it cost for an exam cleaning x-ray do you have insurance no well we have a new patient special it's 99 she says okay thanks she hangs up 30 seconds later the same patient calls back this prospective new patient calls back and says well hey how much is it for my exam cleaning x-rays after the new patient special like this is the kind of patient you want right I’m looking to be here long term and he fumbles and bumbles and well it depends on if you want x-rays and well do you want if it's an fmx or if it's a bitewings like it's just down this spiral of and then finally he quotes her I think 279 and she says thank you and hangs up and it's just crazy that they don't have a good solution to be able to solve that problem and so they're blasting out if you think of new patient generation the offers you see are exam cleaning and x-rays for 99 79 29 you know they get to where they well I don't know what to do this guy's doing 39 for an exam cleaning x-rays I guess I’m going to do 29 or they'll give away free exam and x-rays or it's bleaching for life or it's a crown special for 7.99 or 10 off treatment all of these offers that they give are catered to patients that don't have insurance but they're not setting them up to be long-term patients they're setting them up to be a deal for one time and come in and then from there on what do we do with them how do we convert them to long-term patients and dentists say well I hate marketing because it doesn't work because I did this special and all they came in and they got that special they left it's like yeah because your product and your membership plan sucks like I don't want us to tell you [Music] was it I mean wasn't groupon a race to the bottom I mean yes you know you had your favorite Mexican restaurant and you get this coupon I get two tacos and beans and rice for a dollar than the next week the next days i'll give it to you for 50 cents then a month later i'll pay you a dollar to eat it in my I mean anybody can sell something for a loss I mean you don't have to be a genius to buy something for a dollar and sell it for 50 cents the genius buys it for 50 cents and sells it for a dollar in fact if you ask any millionaire how did you become a millionaire they say well I bought a million of these for a dollar and I sold them all for two dollars and I’m a millionaire and a group groupon to me is like that was that was the dumbest idea known to man because you're attracting a race to the bottom in fact are they still a thing are they successful anymore did or did everyone finally figure it out I don't know I mean I think they are in areas where you have you know excess capacity for a concert or something maybe it works but for dental reaction hey again if you're going to get a patient in the door and then you actually have a plan to sell them maybe it's worth getting them in at a loss you know people do that all the time the problem is the doctors they're getting people in at very low margins and or a loss but then they have no way to convert those to long-term patients I mean a patient's gonna spend six or seven hundred bucks a year in your office you can afford to spend two or three hundred bucks to get them in the problem is when you're getting them in for two or three hundred dollars and you have nothing to sell them afterwards then that's where it's stupid but if you're doing some sort of an offer or a deal to get patients in and you're able to convert those to long-term pain patients that increase your practice value and increase treatment that month or that year then it's worth doing but that's what that's where we feel like and that's why we started dental menus we feel like there was a missing connection there to actually having a product that was going to move the dial a way that the dentist could market a little bit differently so um explain and I’m so anybody driving to work or um on the treadmill for an hour saying okay um explain this to me like I’m five because I’m you know where would you begin on a membership plan so I want you to start with um I mean your the dental menu dental menu the best dental membership plan ever especially for hygienists uh in front office and patients it says and by the way I don't do commercials that uh did I pay you or did you pay me to come on the show uh my gosh um so the bottom line is uh explain this to me like I’m five and uh and where would I begin so I mean I really like to take a look at it because doctors maybe five-year-olds don't but that understand insurance and so if you look at what insurance provides insurance does provide some value the first thing they do there's really four key things that an insurance company provides to you or to somebody that accepts insurance being a provider a practice so the first thing they're going to do is they're going to organize a wide range of dental services and they're going to make a product so if you go look up dental insurance they've productized that they tell you that hey you get four bite wings you get one exam you get a pano every three years whatever it is they put this wide range of services and they put it into a product that a consumer can actually purchase and then they market and sell that product so delta dental's out there selling their product to businesses and to individuals so they're marketing and selling that insurance product and then they handle all of the billing between them and the patients whether it's an employer or patients directly they're handling that financial relationship with collecting those premiums and then they're tracking the benefit eligibility in the and who's doing those the payments for those services so they're providing those four services for an office now they charge 40 cents on the dollar essentially 40 cents goes to the insurance company off of that but those are the services they're providing and when you look at a membership plan or product then you have to look at okay is my membership plan is it is it accomplishing those same things that insurance is accomplishing am I organizing my services my wide range of all my menu of services let's say am I putting those into an easy menu for patients to consume if you showed up at the drive-thru at the restaurant Howard and there was all of these weird turns and all of these weird codes and you didn't even know what the heck to order it's like a foreign language you don't know what to get so you're just you're just hoping that whoever is across is telling you what to buy it's confusing is all get out and then and then you've got to figure out how do I market and sell my membership plan do I have a plan to actually market will my staff sell it and support it are they going to are they going to kick against it is it marketable for consumers I hear I hear a lot of doctors say well I don't ever want to do that I would never I would never do that but then we talked to patients I don't really care doctor you're saying that you need more revenue and you need more patience if you have a poor product it's any business take a step out of dentistry if you have a crappy product then you better sell on price right sell the very bottom and then the billing side is what most of the competitors in myspace do well is they help dentists set up this recurring monthly billing and I’m sure you've seen it all over downtown why would you pay a third party to help you do monthly reoccurring payments and frankly you don't need a third party to do that I can I can recommend some merchant service providers where you can go set up subscriptions it'll build people monthly or annual or whatever you want that's not hard but the challenge is how do you track the benefit eligibility and then those services and the payments how do you get those into your practice management software and get all those to sync up so that's definitely more complex than what a five-year-old version would be but we just see that the products the membership products compared to an insurance product or crappy you know it's like we gotta create a better product for you to sell your patients so you win so you sell I should start saying a fifth year dental student that's a dental student who didn't get out on time just a year late uh that's the one you want to drink with um so what were the four things again um the dental insurance has four things it organizes dental services into a sellable product it markets and sells the plan yep insurance verification well then it bills the customer so it handles all the billing you know tell me the four again before again real quick yeah so organizes the you know if you look at dental services are confusing an insurance company makes them confusing but that's another discussion but they organize those into something that I can say hey for 50 bucks a month I can buy this product and this is what I get okay so that's a sellable product now I have a product to sell right and if I’m an insurance guy I got to figure out a way that I can sell my product so I’m going to package it and then I’m going to market and sell it so that's the second one okay and I’m gonna I’m going to as an insurance from an insurance company which I’m not I’m just saying insurance companies bill for the premium to the customer or the employer so they're collecting the money they're dealing with failed payments they're chasing payments they're figuring all that out they're collecting the money and then they're tracking benefit eligibility for those patients and saying hey you know what paul it's been over six months you're eligible for a cleaning will pay for a cleaning or we'll pay 50 of a crown or whatever that is they're handling all of those benefit eligibilities and then when a office files a claim then they're submitting payment for that claim and saying here's a payment for paul lowry this should go on his patient ledger to pay 500 towards his crown so they handle kind of that whole okay and you say they their gross profit for that or they take 40 cents on the dollar to do those four functions that doesn't have anything to do with paying claims no I mean that has to do with paying claims as well they take forty percent essentially of you know if uh if an employer is paying a thousand dollars a month to an insurance company four hundred dollars is going to the insurance company 600 will eventually trickle down to the providers is basically what the kind of yeah huh and um and what I don't understand about um the insurance companies I mean just crazy um why don't they have an app I mean why I mean and that that's why that's why um people were so upset with uh dennis were so upset with Obamacare it's like um not to get political but they didn't address the 30 of the overhead that was just pushing paper it could all be digital I mean if America is good at anything it's silicon valley fintech why do I have to hire a human being to call the company because their website sucks and beyond I mean we have to have a human call everyone or we basically don't know what they're doing and I I’ve always asked them why don't you just make it happen I mean you could just come in you could have your delta dental app and I scan it I know you're paul lowery and we're all done and ready to go um you know they want to make it easy to file claims and get pay that money out so you so you think it's obviously intentional that they would automate collecting uh selling the premium and collecting that money but not paying the claims so do you think in game terry in game theory that's just intentional right out of the gate yeah why wouldn't it be if you've got to sit on the phone for 20 minutes well the other the other the other side of that is incompetent and they seem to be extremely incompetent I mean they do I mean they just they just I mean that they can't impress me I mean they've had a product for 32 years that just continually falls behind uh the scope I found an interesting thing last night they're not incompetent of uh getting people to not use their benefits again going back to these phone calls from insurance new patients they have insurance and they spend 30 minutes on the dang phone trying to figure out if they're going to be eligible and well we'll call the eligibility we'll find this out it's such a game because they don't want to make it easy they don't print your number on the back of the insurance card so that it's easy to verify benefits and then when an insurance company doesn't pay who's the bad guy the doctor the stupid provider right because they usually should have known and now I own they're telling me I owe two thousand dollars and like what you know an insurance company gets scot-free of all of that now one of the things one of the biggest missed opportunities of um of what you're doing and in my opinion is that the reason netflix and spotify the valuations were so high I mean remember when netflix was worth more than Disney yeah and I’m just like really do I have to explain to you what Disneyland is Disney world I mean Disney they own espy I mean you know it because I’ve lived through this bubble with the internet stocks from 94 to 2000 I mean companies who had never made a dime were worth billions of dollars and of course it all came down and crashed but a lot of these membership plans that the dental office will go through the whole sales thing yeah and but they'll just sell it for the year and then at the year they got to start the whole sales thing again and it's like gosh um I mean when you look at gym memberships the whole gym membership the whole reason it makes money is because you sign up on the on the on July or January 1st your new year's resolution the average person you know they have great goals and great plans but after eight months you know they're back to eating cheeseburgers and french fries but it takes them about 36 months to cancel their membership so month 9 through 36 there's no one in the gym so they can oversell capacity but the dentist everyone I know that did this plan you know it's good for one calendar year and then we start over again um you'd need to ding them in in to perpetuity until they cancel yeah and we're finding that so first of all what you're doing yeah and we feel like dentistry really is the is the first recurring revenue model subscription revenue think of think right now Howard if I could come to you with my product and say hey Howard if you don't buy my product and you don't use it you're gonna be in dentures it's like I want that kind of product you will lose your teeth if you don't buy this product that's an awesome product I wish I could sell that which is kind of what we're selling but the thing that's crazy is the practice valuation goes up these companies where I am in silicon valley they're all software companies they're getting 10x annual revenues so think about that you do a million dollars in revenue because they're a subscription base they're selling for 10 times that amount 10 million dollars when you sell a practice that has insurance patients you're getting you know 1x kind of a thing because they're not as valuable but if you can get the subscription going now what we've done with our product is taking this quite a bit further so again we love the monthly payments and a lot of offices say well hey I don't want to do monthly payments because I’m so worried about getting paid or these types of things and it's crazy because again go back to insurance companies they're very successful they charge monthly all the time but what do they do with the five or ten percent of patients that they know they won't make money with they increase their premium for the other 90 percent to cover those few we're seeing right now default rates between three and five percent of people that will default before their contract is up so to speak so just add another dollar to the rest of the people because you're taking your 300 patients and you're dean 280 of them you're not trusting them because you got 20 boneheads which you shouldn't want as patients anyways let them go out the door take care of your good patients so what we do is with our product you can actually offer a different frequency of how often they can come in for their preventative services so this every six months if you go talk to hygienist and you say does every patient that come in need to come and see you every six months that is something that the insurance company has set if you talk to patients that don't have insurance we've done a lot of exit interviews and we've said why didn't you buy that plan and they've told us I don't want to come in every six months I know I won't use the gym membership so I’m not going to buy it so we've actually had some success with offices offering a cleaning every nine months or even every 12 months and that's what they're using to market with because it gets the price point down stop doing a 29 exam clean x-ray special sell a membership plan for 15 bucks a month where they get a profi once a year but they're at least connected to your office now what we do is we take that a step further so you buy the core benefits and I should be clear we do an intake process but this is up to the doctor what he wants to include and whether he wants to offer other frequencies or not once they've chosen that we help the doctor have some additional upsells that that consumers can customize their plans so take fluoride for example every time I go to the dentist I don't have insurance they ask me and I go to a lot of dentists because that's what I do for work right let's write different ones out so they will ask me hey paul do you want fluoride the next question is how much does it cost okay well it's 30 what are the benefits of it we have the sales conversation every time I’m in there and well your kid's here does he want four items your wife's here does she want fluoride instead what we're doing with these membership plans is you buy the base benefits you want fluoride it's three bucks a month let's add it to your subscription and then you're done you never sell it again you could sell bleaching you could sell botox you could sell premium imaging I talked to an office the other day where they said well we always have this issue doctor's in the back he tells back office like hey I need to get a pano and a full fmx I got to figure out this treatment right patient doesn't have insurance the back office is like what I’m going to take all these pictures I don't want to have the awkward conversation of price I don't sell I just work in the back office I just want to take pictures I don't I don't want to sell that's the treatment coordinator's job right so they take a bunch a bunch of x-rays patient finishes they go to check out in the front desk or treatment coordinator oh hey you owe 680 dollars for x-rays and the patients what the oh how much I didn't consent to do that and so the front desk is like well we usually write those x-rays off because I don't want to lose the patient but then the doctors pee owed at me because I wrote off these x-rays so there's this problem so what we found is look you can have an upgraded imaging package for seven eight bucks a month it includes any and all x-rays whether they get them or not you could I’ve got offices up selling nitrous for two bucks a month everyone wants to buy nitrous but now you're getting 24 a year whether they use the nitrous or not emergency exams emergency x-rays patients will pay two or three bucks a month for that and let me ask you this if a patient breaks his tooth do you want him going to google or responding to a mailer or do you want him saying hey I spend an extra two bucks a month with my dentist and I know it's not going to cost me anything for me to have them go look at my crack too you're going to get the treatment out of it so we've got offices that will do an offer for 15 18 bucks a month for their base level plan but by the time they get them in and they're working with and they're able to show them value of other services they're getting up to 30 40 50 bucks a month for their membership plan because patients are buying you know eight bucks a month I’m buying bleaching because I want bleaching but not all patients want that if I take a hundred patients in an office you've got patients that want to spend as little as possible but you have you do have patients that will spend more money and so when you have a one-size-fits-all membership plan you're leaving money on the table over here and you're also not selling some other people over here because it's just this is what it is hope it fits you and if it doesn't sorry this is all I want to offer this is all my plane does and I just want to explain to the kids real clear I mean obviously um we call it temporomandibular disorder but the patient calls it tmj um the endodontist uh they don't like the word root canal they want to call it endodontic therapy but the patients all call it a root canal and now um periodontists are all saying they don't like deep cleanings they want it to be periodontal therapy well I’m sorry but um there's a language in America and they call this dental insurance um but there's no such thing as dental insurance it's always a dental benefit in fact if you look at blue cross and blue shield and aetna and all the insurances they're only it's the only good benefit if your employer or the government pays for it but you wouldn't you wouldn't buy those premiums and those risks uh for yourself and they couldn't tell so really insurance is an actuarial risk analysis versus moral hazard so you go out into uh city uranus uh um lehigh utah is that how you pronounce it lehigh so you go into lehigh and you say okay for every hundred drivers one guy is gonna crash his car so you charge everybody a little bit for auto insurance because one guy's gonna crash his car same thing with house and a fire insurance um you know you insure a hundred houses one burns down but with medical and dental you employ a hundred people with medical insurance dental benefits how many of them need a cleaning exam and x-ray how many of them eat butter and bacon and cheese I mean you know there's no way to spread the risk around you can think you can spread it to your employer and um and they do that but that makes their prices higher so that hurts on um exports and then you think um you're gonna have the government pay for it but you don't realize that you pay for the government so we're talking about dental benefits uh there's really no such thing as dental insurance and by the way health insurance would be completely affordable if they would treat it as insurance and the reason socialized countries love health insurance I love socialized medicine is just look at canada I mean canada is a classic example canada like America 99 of americans did not go to the hospital last year so if it's free and you didn't use it by god it's great and uh but the people that use it then you have to go look at what how many of them um have to wait half a year how many people um how many tens of thousands per month will travel out of canada to go get a surgery that they want now so you really got to look at the people who are using it not the 99 percent that never went to the hospital I mean that that's just a crazy way to uh judge something uh but it's a benefit and with all things if the government subsidizes it or gives you a tax credit somehow makes it cheaper because price is everything in fact that's a weird thing that dennis said to me i'll say well what is your favorite procedure and you go oh my god I just love a crown I just like to do a crown I’m like okay well how much you charge your account a thousand and then the earth goes around the sun so what do you do with your crown fee well I love it so much I’m gonna raise it okay well that's an economic barrier to entry so that means you're gonna raise the price so you can do less but I thought you said you loved it see if you really loved a crown every time the earth went around the sun in those 365 days you'd have one eye on the patient one eye on cost and you'd use your god-given brain talent to drive down the cost so more people could afford the freedom to get a crown in fact you really know when someone loves implants um you know if you're not doing one of anything a week you're not making money on it but a lot of people spend a lot of money on implants they're only placed in like one a month but man when I find someone that's doing 40 50 implants a month they get their price all the way down to 9.95 because they know implants aren't covered by insurance so when the periodontist says well you need six implants and they're 1500 a piece they're gonna get on the phone well how much is the implant and then when you're in boca raton and you call my buddy he says 9.95 they're like holy boom so they go to there and of course they're buying six and it'll take him the same length of surgical time to place six as it would one yeah and you know so if you love something and you want to do more of it remember the most protective moat around your business is not um a copyright it's not some you know some I intellectual property it's being the lowest cost provider that's how southwest um airlines got number one at 27 that's why walmart sam uh price club from seoul price what a genius cost cutter in fact I’m still shocked that warren buffett didn't take that big old basket of cash he had and just buy costco outright I mean it's just his deal but um if you're not making it faster easier higher quality lower cost or smaller um you're not going to run away so i want to get right back to today this the first day of fall and by the way you're such a man there's not one fall thing in your office I mean there's not a pumpkin there's not a there's not a halloween thing at thanksgiving you must not have six grandkids uh my grandkids my house looks like an uh an orange some type of lsd orange trip it's just everywhere there's just orange everywhere but um going into this fall this the first day of fall October November December what do you specifically think should be their action plan um as we go into uh you know this pandemic started in march april may june july august 17th so we're seven months into a pandemic um everybody told us back in the spring that it would die down in the summer and come back with a vengeance but everything is you know all the information everybody's seeing the same information and it seems to change but it does look like europe is having uh upgrades you know it looks like it's happening in europe and they're in the northern hemisphere along with 90 percent of all humans what do you think they should what should be their action plan right now how could you help them survive the fall yeah what would they do so I mean they all need either new patients or they got to reactivate existing ones in hygiene so my first question to them is outside of dental insurance tell me about your hygiene products tell me how you productized your hygiene how do consumers consume your hygiene product so the first thing we're going to do is we're going to come in and put dental menu as a hygiene product that's a lot better than any other product out there because consumers can again they can customize their subscription to your office which means you're going to get higher adoption rates and then they can buy additional services from your office which is going to increase your margin and increase the amount of money they're spending if you look at if you look at mcdonald's how much money did they make from super sizing their meals by one simple hey for another 79 cents every customer that comes in gets a bigger drink the margins almost pure profit and so on and so we're going to help you create or set up this product so that then when you market whether you're doing reactivation whether you're doing emails or socials or whatever it is now you have a better way to market because you can have different offers and different hooks to get people into your office for example I’ve got an office right now that their membership plan is a 25 enrollment fee and it's uh 20 a month so 45 dollars the first month so we're advertising on social media coming and getting exam cleaning x-rays for 45 when you sign up for the membership plan so they're getting patients and those patients are spending 45 dollars getting those services that day but they're also committing to a six-month agreement to pay 45 a month and keep paying that month after month so there's again there's a longer term so instead of just throwing out a one-time offer we're throwing out things hey sign up for our membership plan in October and we'll enter into a drawing for a 200 amazon gift card let's get them in in October let's figure out how and that works by the way with insurance patients come in and use your benefits in October we'll put you into a drawing for a 500 gift card because you've got to get them in in October so that six months later you don't have the same problem you know we got to flatten this out for them so there's a lot of marketing things you can do but again if you take uninsured patients I’m going to ask you tell me about your product or what you're selling to the uninsured patients and if it's a lame duck membership plan that that isn't really going to make any long-term difference or the majority of patients don't want to buy you better fix that first because the marketing dollars that's where it gets real expensive you could dump 20 or 30 000 into marketing what's the plan what are you going to offer how are you going to get them to be long-term loyal patients how do you build this recurring revenue model how do you get them to spend as much money as possible in your office so we've got a self-assessment on our website that you don't have to put in any information you can go look at it gives you a lot of ideas I’m happy to review some ideas here that you can implement on your own one thing we've had great success with is doing a rewards program within your membership plan so when a patient if you look at insurance they have like a thousand or fifteen hundred dollars towards treatment that's what you get once a year they'll have a party at the end of the year because hopefully people didn't use it right so when a patient comes in and they receive their cleaning they actually get you can decide what you want to do but say 25 or 50 or 100 towards treatment that may be needed in the future so imagine if these consumers these patients are paying you 20 30 50 bucks a month but by using their benefits they're building this reward up in the office they don't ever go away and the treatment acceptance goes way up if you have a crown and it's 9.95 or it's 11.95 but they have some rewards stop discounting so much have them earn rewards to connect to your office rather than just price discount price you got to get out of playing in that price game both from a treatment standpoint but marketing as well what are you going to market people would always call me I probably need new patients okay well what are we going to do what are we going to market what are we going to say we're going to put a really nice picture of you and your family and say we do quality dentistry I do dentistry better than anybody else it's not going to work you know we're not going to get people in and the consumers are price conscious they're looking on the internet they've got all kinds of different things it's different than 1980 where you just hang up a shingle you got to be a little more sophisticated so the first thing to do is create a product that patients are going to actually want to buy and then there's different ways to market that product and I just want to say that this model um was um I just found out last night on monday night football is all excited to watch my night football and then I found out at the beginning of the show that they were celebrating their 50th anniversary of monday night football and I thought damn I’m eight years older than monday night football that's a great way to ruin the ruin the game before it even starts but this thing goes back to the 1700s and what it came out is after the printing presses the way they figured out how to sell the most books was and try to instead of selling trying to sell you a book with all the cost of trying to sell a book they would sell you into a book club and then you were paying money monthly and then they could just keep the flow of books coming faster easier costco um costco it's everybody would say everybody used to get mad I remember when price club and costco uh when I first started going there anytime you went there somebody arguing like I I’m planning on buying several hundred dollars and you're saying I can't because I’m not and they're like no because soul price knew that the minute you were a member like american express how did they how do they charge three percent fees when chase charges won is because you're a member and I actually like the american express membership card because if you uh you know traveling around lecturing I mean whenever I would you know when my world would fall apart the plane canceled there's no connecting flight it's just crazy you take out your gold american express you call that number and they have every single travel thing known to man on one computer in fact that that call center is right here in phoenix like 6 000 employees and she'd say okay here's your only three options on earth you know you can rent a car and drive to this city and then catch this flight but they just have it all but once you're a member psychology thinks well if I’m paul's member I’m a vip he's going to take care of me i'll get the best deal I don't have to worry about checking around and calling you know and all this stuff like that so when you're a social animal and you just you care so much about what all the other animals think because uh you know all the data on species is however the species goes how you go I mean you can't have a species go to uh extinct but paul made it you know he's all fine so you have these social glues holding you together and membership is so intense that costco sam's club walmart none of them are going to give it up they try to do it on the airlines all this stuff like that but humans just want to be a member they want to be a vip they want to think that they can stop the um shopping around thing I I’m a member now I’m a member of your office I’m on the membership plan and I would I would just really urge everyone to make it so once they sign up for the membership plan it dings them on the first day of every month until they cancel just like a gym membership um because uh humans uh their eyes are bigger than their stomach on thanksgiving dinner and on um you know on january 1st they know they're gonna start only eating kale and going to the gym before and after work and all these are great ideas and I hope they work but uh you'll go back from kale to potato chips uh probably in about eight months um so um in these tough times what do you think is a better return on investment trying to market to one of the eight billion strangers that's never been in your office to try to get a new client a new patient or trying to market to the people that have already been in your office once before and try to reactivate what do you think's a higher return yeah so marketing 101 right is the best list is the list that nobody else has so the best list you can get is your patient list nobody else has that list and so anytime you're doing marketing there's really only two things you can control one is the list and the second one is the offer and so what offer am I going to give these people that don't have insurance that have been in my office and what you need to do is get them on your membership plan and again if your membership plan if you want to do just a simple membership plan 300 bucks a year you don't need anybody don't pay anyone to do that but I’m telling you if you want to get a little more sophisticated and have a better product to offer your patients it's going to be better for your patients and it's going to increase revenues for you that's something that that is going to help your practice long term now there's challenges with doing that just take simple the monthly payments it's easy to charge a patient every month but a lot of office managers especially hate it because they don't know what to do with that revenue and so they'll push people towards the annual we've seen it over and over and over if you auto renew people on an annual that's when you get the call and say you just charged me 1200 bucks yeah you your wife and your two kids you all renewed the membership I don't want to buy that right now I’m going to wait till I come back in if you do the monthlies you can set it and forget it and you're going to keep them on a lot longer now the challenge is what do I do at that revenue that's coming in monthly and that's one of the things that we've solved in our solution Howard is tracking those benefits and the payments and the eligibility I sat down with doctors and we had our mvp that had associates being paid on collections and I said hey owner doctor how do you pay your associate doctor who's sitting right here how do you pay him when he does nitrous or exams on your membership program and they looked at each other and it was very awkward and it was like hey wait I’m getting screwed here I don't get anything because it's showing up as a zero on the ledger because you're just collecting that money and so that's what we've really solved if you've got hygienists and associates being paid on production we're managing the benefit eligibility and we're tracking the revenue so that it actually gets attributed to the providers and the benefits and the patients because when you get a better product for patients then you've got to have a way to really administer that and what happens is the front desk says I don't want to deal with anything that's I don't even want to deal with something simple as monthly payments so I’m going to tell the doctor that everyone chooses annual in fact i'll only sell annual and I’m just going to keep it super simple not because it's best for the practice not because it's best for the patients it's best for her and she wants to go home at five o'clock and she doesn't make any more money than whether it works or not and so we really help with a lot of those things so that we take that burden off the staff the team members so that they support it and they'll sell it we actually something you can do on your own but we'll help you administer it as well as a team and senate program get your team behind it let them make some additional revenue by you know I’ve got offices that when they hit 500 members they're going to take I don't know if they are now but there's a covey but they were going to take their staff and a significant other on a cruise if you have 500 members and you 300 bucks a month you're making 15 000 a month recurring revenue take your stinking staff on a cruise you know you just increased your practice value several hundred thousand dollars you know so make sure your staff gets behind it and if they don't understand it or they don't want to administer it or they don't have tools to market and sell it then it's going to fall flat on its face and those are some of the things that we can help with so you said marketing 101 says the best list is the one no one else has no one else has your patient list so reactivating your patients that are no longer active is the best bet and it's so much less it's so much more cost effective a new patient is going to cost you 150 to 300 to generate depending on what method you use reactivation I mean your reactivation cost you should be down in you know 15 to 50 dollars to get that new patient it's significantly cheaper and they already know I can trust you at least to a point versus a known you know new patient but again you've got to look at if I’ve got patients without insurance that maybe they're even tight on money why are they going to come in your office if something doesn't hurt so and then you said but you said the second best marketing bet is your offer well that's the other lever you have to pull so what would you would what do you uh what's the best offer so some of the offers that we've found that work is patients that have insurance if you give them some sort of an offer or a drawing for them to use their benefits in October so for instance hey you know we'll give you we'll put you in a drawing for 500 bucks if you actually schedule and complete a cleaning in the month of October I already have benefits I might as well come in then in October instead of waiting until November or December if they don't have dental insurance some of the offers we're finding that's working again is come in and get an exam cleaning in x-rays for 49 when you sign up for our plan or for 29 but instead of just giving them that service for really inexpensive what you're doing is saying well yeah you come in you sign up today you get all those services for today so sure you're giving them a better deal today but they're committing to your office long term they're committing to be on your plan for six months or 12 months depending on what you want to set it up at we've actually found better success Howard having a six-month contract than a 12-month contract because all you got to do is get him to commit they don't again it's the gym membership if you had to commit to a gym membership for two years would you do it or if you just say well I’m going to sign up I know I’m going to go but like you just mentioned 36 months later is when they finally cancel now to be clear I don't these are not capitation plans nor do I want offices that view it that way we want patients coming in using these preventative services which is why we have the rewards program when you use your benefits we'll give you rewards to future treatment but if you cancel your plan those rewards go away they're just rewards so stay on the plan long term to build rewards so that when you have that cavity you need the crown you want to do those veneers there's a there's a benefit there that can help pay for those services in the form of rewards so that that's another offer you can do right now I’ve got offices that have patients that need treatment and they have patients that have rewards and instead of throwing out a discount to uninsured membership patients saying hey if you come in in October and get that treatment plan done I will give you an additional 10 discount we're not doing that what we're doing is saying hey Howard you've got 200 of rewards if you come in and get treatment in in October we'll double your rewards or we'll triple your rewards but there's like you were talking about with membership I Howard you're a member of my practice I will triple your rewards if you want to come get those veneers done in October because you've been a great patient for the last several years I’m going to reward you and so we're getting treatment acceptance to go up and instead of discounting which I mean they are getting a better deal but we're not preconditioning them that our work is we're just going to throw out discounts instead we're saying use your rewards we're going to give you a better deal on those rewards so that's another good offer if you have a reward program you can double or triple reward so what um to the people listening to this right now and they're just feeling overwhelmed and I’ve noticed um a lot of people in fact I’m um the staff and I were talking about this morning but you know the newspaper was talking about you know um mental illnesses tripled uh calls I mean people are just stressed so a lot of people just might be overwhelmed what percent of this can you do for them and what would it cost if they decide you know this this is good but I just I’m just not gonna do this um what can you they hire you to do for them sure so the first thing we do is set up this product for them so our base product we come in we're going to actually look at some insurance reimbursement information we're going to look at some ucrs and we're going to have an intelligent conversation with the owner doctor and whoever else needs to be involved about pricing and what they need to include and how they can maximize revenue and making sure their product is a sellable product so we'll help them set that up and then we're gonna everything we do is white label for the practices so patients don't buy anything from us all we're doing is facilitating a relationship between the doctor and the patient everything's branded for the practice the patients being charged from their practice we're just helping facilitate this relationship so we'll set everything up we'll design in a custom brochure and print it we're going to actually build a membership website for them that has all their information we'll connect it to their current site we've got an online sign up where patients can sign up outside the office you can give them a tablet inside your office they can sign up we'll do all of that and then we'll come in and train your staff for about an hour on how to sell the product and how to use the software so we do all of that for a one-time upfront fee um it's on our website 7.95 and then ongoing using the software the patients pay a 25 enrollment fee because they get those services that day um and that fee comes to us as well as two dollars per member per month um regardless of what plan they're on or what they've bought or any of those things so it's very low risk for a practice to get going now once they've gotten going if they want help with marketing after that those we can definitely help them with that a lot of that depends on you know how many patients they have reactivating what really they want to accomplish that's a little bit more custom based on their needs but we can definitely help them with marketing or we'll refer some other people if it's things that we don't do okay what if you're a little bit bigger of an office and you have an associate and I’m the owner and I saw this plan but now I got an associate over there doing fillings and et cetera how does that um how does that affect so that's the beauty of our program that's what's different from our program than any other membership platform out there is we actually have you keep talking about an app our software is a web-based app that can sit on your phone or it sits on the front of your computer screen it's about this big and the front desk when you have an app well it's a web-based app so it's based but it looks just like an app and delta dental doesn't yeah really they started in 1947 after world war ii and you already got an app and they don't why don't you just close on your business and start making them for delta or blue cross and blue shell by the by the way I got to tell you something last night really interested me um dentists now are sending me uh they were texting me and emailing me um their insurance company um this is the specialist it'd be like a say in endodontist and they were charging say a thousand is it just easy math a thousand dollars for a root canal and they were saying they were saying based on your utilization will give you a check for 40 grand and we'll send you 40 grand if we can lower your fee from say a thousand to say whatever but it was a one-time and they had an expiration date of two weeks you got two weeks you say yes we're going to mail you this big chunk so that we can mail you a smaller amount easier because you know for dentists they just you know they just figure there's so many dentists they just lower and they don't care but specialist is one of the things if you're trying to sell dental insurance and you don't have any endodontist or oral surgeons um you know you can't really sell it so they were they're now offering specialists uh a one-time chunk of change to lower their fee so um again it's just another just another thing that I haven't seen in 32 years of being a dentist where it makes me suspect about the economy going forward for at least the next time I think the next calendar year I don't think we're going to be out here and I don't think wall street will have the profits to justify these price earnings ratios uh for a couple of years and in fact the only way I can see that um that math adding up is for a correction yeah I mean you know and most people were looking for the correction before the pandemic started yeah I mean I mean we were all in correction mode I mean these things happen every 10 years it was 10 years before Lehman’s but I didn't mean to interrupt yet but um yeah exactly right yeah so with our software the front desk actually checks the patient out so they're going to log a visit and they're going to actually choose what services that patient received and they're going to choose the provider that did those so it's very similar again when we were talking about insurance and the four things insurance provides that's what we provide for an office is we're going to actually organize their services into a menu into a product patients can buy and then we're going to help them market and sell that product and then we'll help facilitate those payments from the patient to the practice but then we're also going to track benefit eligibility and what provider did those services so that the providers you know if you've got an office let's say you have three locations how do we how do we keep track of if you know I work downtown phoenix so I go to phoenix to this office and then my wife lives in mason she takes the kids to this office who receives that revenue for those and that's what we keep track of so you actually log the benefits you hit submit and then we're going to provide a report to tell you exactly how to account for that revenue so that you can attribute that membership revenue to the associate doctor so that when you run his commission reports you know exactly what he should get paid so any office out there that has more than one provider or they're paying hygienists on uh collections or production this we've got an office solution to solve that and most of them are running into this if they have their own plan and they're doing themselves now is this um is the best way to market this plan is to people that don't have dental insurance I know it's a benefit and I know it's a it's an endodontic therapy but this root canal and this dental benefits is that who's really responding to the ad or if they already have dental benefits from work are they still responding from this or is your best bet to go after the half of America without dental benefits well first off the people that you think have dental benefits may not now you don't really know that so and then the people that have dental benefits have friends that don't have dental benefits so you really want to market to when you're doing your internal marketing you for sure want to market to both camps you want to market to all your patients because if you've got a patient that has dental insurance that loves you to death and she posts on facebook hey I love my dentist you should go here and her friend responds well how much does it cost they don't have insurance you want her to say oh they've actually got a great plan so you know go check them out so you definitely want to market to your insured patients the messaging needs to be a little different but you want to market to them as well as your uninsured patients because times are crazy right now who knows what insurance people have I mean it's changing it's always changing so how long have you been in the uh dental business dental market did you say uh so about a little over 10 years 10 years is this the craziest you've seen it in your 10 years absolutely it is crazy I mean we've done different things and it just changes quite often but what we have seen is the offices that have built a steady amount of membership patients that have 5 10 15 grand a month coming in it's helped it's definitely helped stabilize things for them yeah um and you're in um you're in lay utah um right um which is um yeah what is that just south of salt lake city and what is um and a lot of people on the on the party they like to know how does kova 19 look like in your backyard I mean is it is it real is it more real is it more hype is it more um what's the general feedback in utah about all this ah so utah is not as crazy as some states um depends on the county but there has been a spike in cases and stuff with schools but overall the doctors are I would say more fed up with it at this stage they've been they've been okay they've been able to go back to business they're hoping they don't they don't get shut down I mean we've got we've got practices all over in lots of different states but utah seems to be okay we'll see we'll see how that that plays out and by the way I just want to tell you I don't know where you live but I know the uh my gosh I am I live in phoenix arizona so you're exactly like I don't know how many miles are you from phoenix do you have any idea uh it's about a 10 hour drive what is it I don't know 5 600 miles yeah but man phoenix straight up to utah holy moly then I actually got to make the drive phoenix to utah all the way through Idaho all the way up um through Montana into uh um to all the way to Edmonton and my god that was that was just that was several days of just I mean it's the most beautiful part of earth you could ever see yeah I mean it's just beyond gorgeous I mean crazy gorgeous um and you know it's god's country because you only um you're halfway between salt lake and god he's uh Gordon’s in Provo utah and he's the god of dentistry and when you die he'll be sitting up there with all your charts and he's gonna go through all your charts and uh um so um so do you um do you um you what percent do you think the dentists are running at do you think it's about um the ada saying that dentists are running about 71 percent of pre-pandemic some people say 80 percent what would you say the percent is of uh who you're working with you know that's what's crazy is I’ve got offices that are busier than they've ever been before and I’ve got offices that are scared to death and this is the worst it's ever been and they're slow and I will tell you the offices that were doing better before the pandemic and make smarter decisions and treat their practice as a business they're doing well they've been able to adapt and they're doing all right the people that kind of offices that didn't do anything and they just figured well i'll be fine i'll be fine I’m not gonna I’m not my membership plan's fine everything's fine I’m making enough money those are the ones that are really hurting and this pandemic's not gonna go away if you don't adapt and change the way that you're doing business you're going to continue to hurt now that being said my offices that are doing really well I mean they're anywhere from 25 to 75 capacity in October I mean they're all hurting in October um for hygiene they're a lot slower well let me let me let me talk about the hygiene because um a lot of a lot of the kids and that are in dental school I it seems like about a quarter of the kids have a dentist in the family somewhere you know she's in dental school her mom's a dentist um he's in dental school his dad's brother's a dentist when you go to India and brazil it seems like at least a third you know um you know so occupations have been very family I mean if your dad was a goat farmer for five generations and you're out in the middle of nowhere you do you know you raise goats but think about your mom's office I mean you're in dental school you're 25 and your mom's a dentist so her hygiene department I always um picture it like just like a glass of coffee or a glass of hot cocoa and your mom's been pouring new patients in this glass for 20 30 years and what I mean by that is your mom has only had one hygienist in fact she's always I am let me tell you what a magician I is um I know she's in room one oh hi Jenna she's never in room four or five she's always the first room and um let's say she works um you know just for easy math she works eight hours a day five days a week um 50 weeks a year that's 2 000 hours a year let's say there's no gum disease or anything just cleanings every six months a 40 hour a week five day eight hour a day five day a week 50 week hygienist she can clean a thousand people's teeth twice a year for an hour it's straight up math okay well if your mom's been getting 10 new patients a month she would have added a hygienist every eight years if she was getting 20 new patients a month had been every four years if she was getting 30 new patients a month every two and a half years she'd add another hygienist but you know what your mom's in a town of 5 000 people she's had the same hygienist 40 hours a week for three decades and you keep pouring new patients into her glass so I mean just picture that you got a whole coffee pot you got one mug and you're just pouring coffee into this mug for 30 years uh do you realize that eventually the coffee cup fills up and overflows so the question is a lot of guys like you where you you're seeing that you're seeing a lot of offices from 30 000 feet I want you to go back what have you learned from these patients um that don't have a dental home why did they not go back I mean if I mean everybody in utah everybody's new patient in utah was either just born or just move there so if they weren't just born and they didn't just move there and they say yeah I’ve lived in utah my whole life well then is this the first time you've ever seen a dentist no you can see the fillings in their teeth so what why do you think people aren't coming back to the old dentist and now are in play for a new dentist that's really the million-dollar question that is crazy I mean I would say one of the main reasons is just complacency you know when you talk to people about their dentist they don't hate them but they don't love them so they're just kind of complacent and so when you've got when you've got people that are marketing aggressively uh different offices marketing aggressively with offers and we talked about sometimes dennis is their own worst enemies right because they're it's this race to the bottom with well who's going to do it cheapest who's going to do it cheapest instead of focusing on how do I provide the best experience and also have the best product so that when that patient does come in that new patient comes in for the first time how do I convert them to a long-term patient and I’m telling you outside of dental insurance the products that are out there the offices are offering in a membership style plan aren't very good products and so they're not able to get them to stick long term and so the patient just kind of flounders and they visit the dentist when they feel like it and they're susceptible to offers they're susceptible to going to google when something hurts and so they just jump to the next deal and they jump around a little bit and they aren't real loyal to that that practice but it's because you're not you're not giving them a reason to be loyal why should I be loyal to you why should I come to you what are you doing for me that makes me want to be with you long term and a lot of offices don't have much to offer other than well I like the dentist but where you really get killed is when let's say they're going to that scenario the mom who they've been going to for 30 years what happens when she brings junior up in these patients or I don't know if I like junior I’m not really sure I like junior I’m not going to come back to him I’m going to go elsewhere I’m going to shop around if you would have had a product that they were connected to and they're connected to the practice not as much as that provider it's going to go a lot smoother in a transition and another thing you were talking about earlier is that you know you're saying that um motivate the staff you know uh give them a benefit I mean um if you're a little older you remember a book that came out a long time ago about the five love languages or words of affirmation and acts of service receiving gifts quality time physical touch the physical touch thing that's kind of an illegal thing at work you might leave that one alone but look at words of affirmation that are so important and how many times has the dentist walked in and he's got an eight o'clock patient and he walks in at five tail goes up and looks at the schedule first thing out of his mouth who the hell what the hell is wrong with my schedule I say oh well good morning doc this is great this is your team they're all working for you and the first thing out of your mouth was an oral fart demoralizer uh saying stupid things like that um active service is a uh is a tough one because uh sometimes um you just think uh you know your spouse says well let's paint this room on this weekend you're like oh it's easier to hire a painter and you don't realize that she wanted you to paint with she just wanted to spend the day with you and painting and you're thinking oh it'd be faster to hire someone I’m receiving gifts I mean look at these five-star white restaurants that keep these amazing waiters and waitresses for years and they have a kick-ass night and what do they do when they're at the end of the day they tip out the bus boy for you know running butter the bartender they always spread around the cash um because it changes everything and i'll tell you what um for 33 years when I sat there and it was time to go to lunch but a toothache was there and I thought you know what I’m just gonna do this root canal right now well I miss lunch well I build out a thousand dollars but my dental assistant didn't bill out a thousand dollars and she actually missed her lunch and why don't you have a Benjamin in your wallet where you just say sorry you missed lunch and then put a Benjamin in her hand and you train your whole self like you missed your lunch and you don't go home on time with Howie this this waiter is going to tip you out and I’m and so many times I would um you know be the last person today they broke a tooth there's a pain so it'd be a root canal buildup crown you know we have the cerac machine so it might be scanned the whole thing that's two and a half hours well it's also like 2500 bucks and you know your assistant thought she was leaving a five now she's leaving a 730 and you just say thanks I mean you should really go with a lot of words of affirmation like you know thank you so much um you know I mean this is a hospital I mean a hospital doesn't say oh you're having a heart attack well we all get off at five so go home and die you know it just it just is you do what you do but my gosh um you gotta share around um you got better words of affirmation acts of service receiving gifts quality time and uh not the physical touch thing but uh how what else would you recommend to um get your staff behind this long term so we've had success with the team goals as well you know if you can get your back office you can get your hygienist it's a hygiene product you can get your hygienist talking about it hey you know what I’m looking at your mouth it looks like you could really benefit from coming in every six months that's our best values to get you going on this membership program talk to molly up at the front desk and then you know molly's telling her the same type of a thing and so we've had success you know when you hit 100 members go out for a spa day or unless what you ought to do is have a team meeting and let your team decide what motivates them I don't know what motivates them you know is it a gift card is it a spa day is it a you know let them set some incentives at some different intervals that when you hit those with your membership then then as a team you're going to build team loyalty doing that as well but let them earn that by how many members you're signing up or you know the revenue goals on the membership plan so that they're excited to sell the membership plan not oh this is just something else you're asking me to do you just added more work for me why do I care I don't care I don't I’m not going to sell anybody it's just more work and we've also if you've got a you know some offices if you have a key staff member you know tell me a pin 10 bucks every time they sign up a membership patient it would be worth it would really be worth it so um how do they contact you if they want more information so if they just want to go to our website the so just as it sounds the dental yeah so it's and i'll just be frank she I know what my homies think I mean uh I’m on dental town all day long she's gonna think god there's so many of them I’ve heard of so many plans there's a million plans out there um you know why you not why not some of the other ones um something on my like clear um other ones why are what's unique about you versus the other one um how many how many different plans are there out there right now how many companies would you guess okay 20 20. so why so why you why you what most what the competitors do is they help you set up subscriptions so they'll talk about this reoccurring revenue all day long which again you can do that yourself i'll help you to do that you just you set up these subscriptions that's not where it's difficult again if you look at those four things that insurance does organizing those services into a product so we actually allow patients to be able to customize a subscription to your office you don't have one plan or two plans or three plans you can actually help a patient navigate and customize a subscription so nobody out there has the ability for patients to add services my wife wants bleaching and nitrous I want fluoride we are able to buy what we want and then we actually are tracking the benefits and the eligibility in the providers so nobody else has really closed that loop it's a complete system so we'll do it all for you but when you look at managing the payments and the benefits in the providers if you've got 200 patients that all have customized subscriptions my goodness what are you how are you going to manage that and so our software is set up to function very similar to dental insurance so that your staff is used to managing everything and that's really what's different is we're doing the whole thing we're not just we're not just focusing on payments and hey we're going to set up a reoccurring subscription revenue what we're doing is setting up a more robust product that patients can pick and choose a little bit about what they want and they can they can add things on and then we're going to manage that entire benefit loop with the providers for you that's really the big difference there's a short video on our website that explains it pretty well also they want to go check that out and what is that video on just on the there's one on the home page and then if you just scroll down a little bit there's now is that a is that a vimeo or YouTube uh it's on vimeo as well but it's on our just on our website on the home page if you email that to me at Howard um I can um I can't believe we've gone well over an hour um I can play those videos for them right now so um whatever videos you have because I love videos because you know how long did it take you to make that video to write it produce it I mean sometimes 10 hours goes behind a one minute video oh yeah definitely all right i'll send it over yeah do that and then uh we'll um we'll put that up uh and you can hear that now so um paul um thank you so much for coming on the show and uh talking to my homies and giving them some hope and uh things they can work on and action list so they're just not sitting home uh feeling the blues uh give them something motivated to fight about and so just go to and um come on guys this is when I need you to be your best I mean um when you when you just one three months in a row when you're kicking ass sometimes it's just like ah forget it I’m gonna take out two weeks ago on vacation but you know when everybody needs you the most is when the hits the fan I mean every general will tell you that the first casualty of war is the battle plan because as soon as they hear the first shot everybody runs and dives back into the uh um behind the wall and this is when they need you the most your team needs you the most your patients need you the most your community needs the most so this is when you just need to stand up and lead paul's giving you a lot of things he's got um his website the dental menu but paul thank you so much for coming on the show today um it's very fun listening what you're doing and best of luck to you during the pandemic all right appreciate it I sent those videos over all right buddy have a rocking good day and good luck with those kids what'd you say four of them six of them holy moly well good luck with those and man and remember the best reason to never kill your kid is because they'll make you grandkids someday so I uh that's right I’m looking forward to it as long as it's tiny right what's that as long as the timing's right when those grandkids come all right well have a great day paul all right
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