Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
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1475 Dr. Barry Glaser of Aligner Insider on Clear Aligner Continuing Education : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

1475 Dr. Barry Glaser of Aligner Insider on Clear Aligner Continuing Education : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

10/6/2020 3:00:00 AM   |   Comments: 1   |   Views: 194
Dr. Barry Glaser received his DMD degree from The University of Pennsylvania School of Dental Medicine and earned his Certificate of Advanced Graduate Studies in Orthodontics from Boston University. He served as Associate Director of Orthodontics at Montefiore Medical Center in New York City from 1992 to 1995.  He has maintained a private orthodontic practice in Cortlandt Manor, NY, USA since 1994.  Dr. Glaser is a frequent speaker for Align Technology, Inc. and Dental Monitoring, providing insight on clinical treatment with clear aligners and the psychology of compliance and how AI enhances the patient experience.

VIDEO - DUwHF #1475 - Barry Glaser

AUDIO - DUwHF #1475 - Barry Glaser

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**Please excuse any typos as this was digitally transcribed**

It is just a huge honor for me today to   be podcasted interviewing Dr. Barry J. Glazer DMD who received his DMD \ degree from the university at   Pennsylvania school of dental medicine   and earned a certificate of advanced   graduate studies and orthodontics from   Boston university   he served as associate director of   orthodontics at Montefiore medical   center in New York city   from 92 to 95 he's maintained a private   orthodontic practice in Cortland manor   New York   since 94. dr glazer was an early adopter   both Invisalign teen   as well as a tarot digital scanner and   has extensive experience treating   children teens and adults of all male   occlusions with Invisalign clear   aligners   he is the principal investigator for the   North American clinical trial for   Invisalign treatment   with mandibular advancement he is a   frequent speaker for align technology   and dental monitoring   providing insight on clinical treatment   with clear aligners and the psychology   of compliance   and how ai enhances the patient   experience   he is the author of the best-selling  book the insider's guide to Invisalign   treatment published in 2017   and available worldwide dr glazer's   innovative website which is why i   brought him on the show   is virtual class master for doctors to   learn more about   excellence in aligner orthodontics and   his 13-week   online mini residency is available at   the aligner insider podcast is available   on all podcast platforms   he's in high demand as a speaker for   align technology and the bottom line is   this   I had joe Hogan the CEO of align   technology who I always watch   on mad on mad money and   what's that guy's name on mad money um   Kramer I love uh Kramer another   bald crazy man and uh oh my gosh um and   i got him on the show and I thought   who the hell could follow Joe Hogan on  dentists they had ten thousand views on  dentist trans I said who could follow   him   but the man Barry Glazer and seriously   dude   seriously you're the only one that could   have followed that guy and uh thanks for   coming on the show   um how are you doing um mom is are you   sitting behind him there is that i hear   my mom back there   she's very she'd be very happy to hear   all those nice things that you said   about me   um i am great I thought what you were   gonna say was that you know the only  person that could follow   Joe Hogan was not available so you know   you had to yet to find me   that would probably be more appropriate   you're um well and i hope they're uh   listening to this on itunes because if   you saw both of our bald heads at the   same time   uh your website might if you have a porn   filter on it it'll probably just block   the whole YouTube video   um as a porn but um my gosh um   my god these are such trying times and   you are up there in new york and in   march that that was ground   zero i mean your entire city was just   it was under lockdown and um so i know   that we're gonna get to aligners and all   that stuff but um   did you ever think in your wildest   dreams you'd be an   orthodontist in new york during a   pandemic and how did you survive the   lockdown   you know so to answer the first question   no you know you watch these movies like   um contagion have you seen that movie   yeah   and you think you know it's a great   movie but it's never gonna happen i mean   and it just happened so quickly here   i happened i was traveling in fact i was   in i was in your neck of the woods i was   in phoenix   the first weekend of march and and   there was a girl sitting next to me on   the plane and she came on with gloves   and a mask you know   we were all kind of like laughing we   thought it was so cute   and that was probably like march 5th and   then you know march 13th i closed my   office down so it it just happened so   quickly   and there was so much i think to try to   you know to wrap your head around   so it was um it was a trying experience   i mean   thankfully you know my family's okay and   uh   you know my patients are okay and my   staff but it was really um   to put this in perspective you're   not in New York city you're like what an   hour up the Hudson river yeah I’m in   Westchester county so exactly one hour   north uh so we're on our country up here   and i feel sorry for international   people because international people   whenever you go   international they they don't even know   what New York city is they say   well what is new york city because i if   you ask someone do you live in new york   city they say no   i live in manhattan no i live in   Brooklyn no i live in queens no i live   in bronx  um does anybody actually live in new   york city or does it not even exist   how would you explain that to someone   from india   well yeah well we first of all we start   by saying there are trees in new york   uh even in the bronx where i was born   there's trees but   you know to answer your question you   know new york has changed so much at the   real estate market in in the suburbs   like where i am and even further north   uh is on fire because there are so many   people that are now looking to get out   of the city and you know out of that   density so   uh and then commercial real estate too   in new york i mean i i don't think   anybody knows what's going to happen   good friend of mine is a cpa he works in   the empire state building and i think he   comes in sometimes and there's like   10 people in the whole building so i   think going forward nobody really knows   how this is all going to shake out so   it's been well i   i think i think we got some good   precedent titles shake out because   san francisco when when i started uh   lecturing the first time i lectured in   lake tahoe   it was nothing you could buy a hundred   thousand dollar house on the lake and   then   something happened in san francisco and   everybody kind of wanted to get out of   town   and they all discovered tahoe's   only three hours up the road and the   next thing you know everything is a   million dollars   i'm seeing that completely right now in   phoenix you go one hour up north   and you you get up a mile high and the   temperature drops 30 degrees   houses have doubled the one the one that   i was going to   buy and i thought ah a little too high i   finally made the call   the price has doubled and so this is   like in flagstaff in that area   yeah exactly flag globe all that stuff   and um   so these people are gonna leave downtown   the empire state building they're gonna   find out god it's just nicer out in the   woods without all this crowded stuff the   kids can go out and play   and it's going to be this is going to be   a lifelong because   the parents are going to buy that house   the grandkids are going to visit grandma   so they're going to want to live up   there and   this this is a long-term long-term   change of people saying   you don't have to get an airplane and   fly four hours to go on vacation why   don't we just drive an hour out of the   city   and now you're san fran lake tahoe now   you're phoenix to flagstaff now you're   um manhattan to um the end of the hudson   river   right now and it's kind of funny because   when i was growing you know i grew up in   new york city   and you know we used to go on a vacation   so we you know get in the car and go to   niagara falls or go to upstate new york   and that was before people were getting   on jets   and you think like for example like the   catskills which you know used to be a   big entertainment center and now has   fallen on hard times but maybe   you start to see some resurgence of that   and history repeats itself i guess right   i saw the biggest whale in on the beach   in new jersey i couldn't believe it   but it turned out it wasn't even well   after i was governor governor christie   um   so so the other thing i want to talk to   you about the pandemic   is two things so um this is all deja vu   for me because i   um i graduated from high school in 80   that's when hiv   broke out in 79 and i can remember   when the government started telling   dentists they had to wear masks   there were stand-up dentists in kansas   that   literally would grab a hold of their   12-gauge shotgun   and say over my dead body and that was   for   gloves and they wouldn't even want to   sit down and one of them   he was so adorable his name was dr   pelter he thought only the   lazy dennis sit down all the dennis he   knew   that stood up then were the hard-working   dentists but   those lazy young kids sitting in their   chair   but but what i liked about it what i   wouldn't know is um a lot of hiv stuff   was   insanely didn't make sense like they   came into arizona and told us we   couldn't wear shorts anymore   it's 116 degrees outside for six months   and i have all these staff and white   shorts and white tennis shoes and little   today's dental shirts and and and   they're like well you you can't wear   that anymore and they're like well how   do you catch aids   by wearing shorts and it was completely   illogical   but there were a lot of permanent   changes we went to gloves we went to   mass we got rid of custard doors we got   bottled water we did all these things   and i look at all the things they're   doing now and i'm wondering   what is just panicking but what will   still be here 10 years now what would   you as an   orthodontist specifically it sounds like   where you live in new york wall street   thinks you're going to be doing it all   telehealth televideo   video conferencing what what do you   think what did you have to do   that you weren't prepared for after hiv   and aids that went on to kill 36 million   people   what did you what would it aids not   prepare you for   on this and what are you doing now that   you think   will you'll still be doing 10 20 years   from now during the next contagion part   2 movie   um return of the viruses uh hopefully   i'll get to you know   play matt damon's part next time but you   know it's it's a really good observation   and the truth is that you know for a   long time because i graduated in high   school in 1982   and 1980 also and i remember my first   year at penn dental which was 84. that   was the first year that gloves were   mandatory and you know all the faculty   you probably had the same thing there   was a there was a big outcry and the   dean   said you know neurosurgeons wear gloves   you can wear gloves too and that kind of   was the end of the complaints but   we've seen all these changes and there's   a great movie i'm sure you've seen   moneyball   you know the great billy bean and   there's a great quote that i use all the   time and that is you have to adapt or   die and i think it just goes to show   you know maybe our generation we're so   used to it you remember too they made us   all get the heptavax fact   vaccine which was you know this brand   new recombinant vaccine   and it was like two hundred dollars   right we've been through it   remember how much had remember how much   you had to pay for that i was   you know i was taking out the loans   anyway i just kept saying i'm signing   the notes   are you kidding me a flu shot's 200   bucks but yeah it was   incredible so i mean maybe this has you   know our generation has learned   to be agile and we've learned to adapt   and i think that's   kind of the way we're handling in our   practice so initially   you know we didn't have to do an awful   lot because we're using universal   precautions we're doing all the things   that we're supposed to do i'm the guy   who tries to follow things by the letter   anyway   but certainly the physical plan changes   and whether you need them or not the   hepa filters and you know   all that kind of stuff we did that and   the barriers and um   i had about i had about 10 weeks so   governor cuomo   allowed us to open again right the   beginning of june so i had   by the middle of march till june to make   all the physical plan changes   to make all the changes culturally to my   staff and again my staff is used to this   they're   they're they they've been trained from   the beginning to use universal   precautions and you know we're doing   we're trying to do it the right way   so it wasn't really all that difficult   especially once you get and show you the   same way howard once you get into that   mindset that you think that your change   isn't necessarily a bad thing   that you shouldn't be afraid of and i've   tried to indoctrinate that to my staff   too so   we still to this day so now this is   where we know september 29th   we're still asking the screening   questions we still   want to make you know keep social   distancing in the waiting room we try to   have the parents stay out in the car and   people are still wearing masks and   and it's honestly it's been it's   actually been better than i imagined   because back in march it just seemed   like a nightmare but you you kind of you   you forge ahead and you make it work so   we're trying to   make sure that we're doing it the right   way and not getting ourselves sick or   staff or getting into our patients sick   and but   but you're right i mean how how much how   much different was this   from what we were doing before which was   you know pretty much the same thing   yeah um you know we we had to close down   for two months   from uh in arizona we had to close down   from st patrick's day   um which is perfect timing because you   know you're hungover the next day anyway   and then you got to open up on um cinco   de mayo which was horrible because then   you had to show up to work hungover   and but but two months two months   we got a donut i mean that that that   kills the year profitability when you're   closed for   two months um have you reached back to   pre-pandemic levels or are you only   halfway   back where are you pre-pandemic to now   well you know thankfully we there was   some federal federal funds and   assistance you know we i got a ppp loan   i was able to keep my   employees on the payroll which certainly   helped with cash flow   no we're not back um we did have a great   june in july   uh probably the best june and july ever   just simply because of the backlog and i   was actually and i was quite honestly   delighted   that people were still interested to   come in and get their treatment started   but um when i in fact i just was looking   looking at my you know end of quarter   numbers and we're still not anywhere   we're about 25   down um you know from from a production   standpoint that from where we were last   year and   you know i don't think we're going to   recover that i think you know   wait till next year wait till next year   like the mets   it is what it is you know what are you   gonna do some people   um i i don't i don't really understand   what they're thinking but   some people think it's just kind of   creepy   to be marketing now after a pandemic i   mean   you know because they're thinking maybe   they're thinking well you know you   probably should just be home   and self-isolating and and trying to um   get you know grandma to come in for a   six-month cleaning or are you trying to   get kids in but the schools are opening   up   and that this is a long-winded way to   answer this when you go back to march   and april they were saying well you know   the spanish influenza was came on strong   in the spring and died out in the summer   and if it would have ended at the end of   the summer we wouldn't be talking about   it then it came back in the fall of the   vengeance   well then halfway through the summer all   the epidemiologists i know at asu   they're   saying well you know that that was an  influenza pandemic and this is a   coronavirus we've never seen one before   and then by by july and august every  epidemiologist i know from asu saying no   it doesn't have that wave function they   have all this math that's not a wave   and now sure enough it's going in the   fall europe they're saying   everybody's reaching record numbers but   you got two variables you got   schools opening back up and you have a   novel virus so you don't know if it   strong in the spring dies out in the   summer comes back in the fall which   correlates not so much to   temperature but humidity in the air so   what do you think do you think we're   gonna have   a fall uptick um do you think this   thing's gonna come back   and if so do you think it's because it's   a cyclic like   influenza or do you think it's a   school's opening because you're an ortho   probably i'm guessing 80 percent of your   clients   or kids and 20 percent are adults it's   it's about   60 60 uh kids   and 40 adults we have more adults than   you think and are you   20 clear aligner 80 percent fixed   i am 80 clearer liner okay i just want   to tell you kids out there that   that that i mean you know he's an   outlier um not only does he look like uh   mr clean   uh where's your gold earring i love that   picture you with the   oh there you go yeah i like the bigger   yeah i get the gold earring   i like the bigger uh obnoxious mr clean   one on you uh that's a hot picture but   uh   um but kids i'm telling you they they're   all   eighty percent fixed and twenty percent   of liner so here you have a   60 or 80 percent alignment 80 clear   aligner 80   clear line so he should have um 20   clear aligner and he's 60 clear aligner   did you say 60 or right now you got me   confused i so   of all my patients so i have about 60 of   my patients are teens   40 of my patients are adults but all   together if you lump all those together   80 of those of all my patients are an   invisalign   you're a maverick man and i'm telling   you that's why the only guy could think   of to follow joe hogan   was you um but um well you know grass   doesn't grow on a busy street so   that's i just wanted to get that out of   the way but   so the question was for marketing um   like i know you've um   um talked about   before do you feel kind of like um   wow i shouldn't be trying to get the   kids to come back to school and my ortho   practice during a pandemic   just stay home and we'll do ortho next   year   um i i don't i told my uh i told my six   grandkids i mean obviously their moms   are gonna do whatever the hell they   wanna do but   i told all my daughter-in-laws that um i   wouldn't be sending my kid back to   school right now   i mean i i just wouldn't and you know   take it for what it is   i i just wouldn't not to mention   grandpa's having a blast   uh facetiming doing their math and   physics and oh my god i love it but   anyway go on   no i i so i think i've evolved i mean i   think in the dark days of you know march   and april   um i i just couldn't see it i mean i   didn't think that   the nba would ever come back or the nfl   or mlb i just thought   i mean i don't know if i'm pessimistic   or not but i just couldn't see it   happening   but the interesting thing is that we've   had quite a bit of demand and i have had   more than one adult in fact that adult   patient just came in today she said   and she's she's a rarity she actually   has braces it's probably the first adult   that i put braces on in a couple of   years   and she said there's no better time to   get braces than when you have to wear a   mask anyway   and i find that i think there's a couple   of dynamics at least in orthodontics   that have   led to which is a really good demand   number one i think that maybe people   are who haven't lost their jobs so the   people that are fortunate enough to be   working remotely which is what most of   new yorkers are doing   they're at they actually have a little   bit more money in their pocket than   they're used to because they probably   didn't take the vacation they're   probably not going out to eat like they   used to and they probably have   more control over their expenses than   they have in a long time we have people   that come in and say   we've got some extra cash and we've   wanted to do our teeth and we want to   get going so i've seen that that   economic pattern happen a lot   i honestly think when it came to like   june and the weather gets really nice in   new york i think people   were they were happy to go to the   orthodontist because they were just   going nuts at home and i think people   just wanted to get out   we did a good job i think educating our   patients and educating the community   uh to what we were doing to keep them   safe so i think that helped i mean you   know not that you want to scare people   but i think people want to know   that we put hepa filters into the hvac   system and electrostatic filters and   that   you know we have the sneeze guards you   know and the whole thing i don't have to   go through the whole list of things and   i never wore scrubs before   so i think that people felt comfortable   enough   i've been i've been in this practice   since 1994 so i think people   were comfortable enough with what we   were doing in the office   that it kind of drove this demand and i   think they were just antsy to get out of   the house but whatever it is   we had a record case starts for both   june and july so you know go figure   so you but i mean back in march i   thought you know my practice is going to   go down the tubes   i just i just couldn't see people   wanting to come in but for the most part   we've had   people that have been very compliant you   know again they wear their masks   now getting back to the whole thing in   the fall so yeah i'm not an   epidemiologist so you know who knows   what's going to happen in the fall but   as far as i'm concerned you know this is   just my own anecdotal opinion   i think that i mean human behavior to me   is so fascinating   and you know it's especially if you take   like an east coast a northeast in the   southwest perspective because i know out   in your neck of the woods   that there are some people that feel   like wearing a mask is a sign of   weakness and you know we don't have to   get into the politics of it but i know   that's that's a   mindset and i mean i thought i find   you being human behavior fascinating   because you think about it and you're   like   is it really that big a deal to wear a   mask i mean forget about civil liberties   i mean all this you know   the constitution i mean put put up put a   mask on for god's sakes i mean   it's not such a i don't think it's such   a big deal but you see especially the   kids you know the college kids that are   just you know they don't care   um and you see there's a percentage of   the population that just have made this   into an issue   that they just don't want to be told   what to do just like people you know   there's like in your state people don't   i ride a motorcycle i would never get on   that motorcycle without a helmet but in   arizona that's your choice   and people feel and i understand that   people want to have that choice but   i mean who wouldn't want to protect   their coconut i i just i don't i mean   personally i maybe i'm just a   new york liberal but i just don't get it   i mean it doesn't seem like such a big   deal to put a helmet on your head   or put a mask on your face i mean but   maybe that's just me howard i mean   you're   you're out in phoenix you see a   different mindset out there that was um   what you said about this is a great time   to get an invisalign because um   personal savings has hit a historic 33   percent   and um as uh spending's declined 13   like i mean i went out to eat at a   restaurant every night you held just the   tip   was you know i mean was a crazy and   um and we were talking about earlier   about getting a place up north i mean   on the weekends we're going up north   we're not flying somewhere   um there's almost nothing to spend your   money on hell even if you go to the   store they don't have hardly any uh   toilet paper or clorox bleach or   it's hard to spend money so if someone   really wanted to get   braces or invisalign or get that   implants done   there's no better time yeah yeah that   that's what we've seen and   i could have i don't know but i mean   you're a lot smarter economic mind than   i am but i would have never predicted   that   um so but hope but it has helped keep us   afloat i mean again we're not we haven't   we're never going to make up that 10   weeks that that we were closed but   it certainly helped us to stay in the   practice i haven't i haven't fired   anybody   um you know we're making payroll um so   you know i'm there's a lot listen   there's still a lot to be grateful for   you know no now i want to talk about  something completely different   the other reason i'm right in the show   and um and you got a   friend out here um who can vouch that   gary brigham   um here in scottsdale in fact the editor   of   dental town dan dan the man is out here   too   but the bottom line is um if a   if a gu if an orthodontist helped a   general dentist   you'd be blackballed from your tribe i   mean in in the 30 years that i   i mean dental town we we put online ce   well we we   um every orthodontist that we ask to put   on or uh   online c there's only two there's   there's harry green in phoenix   who's a board certified orthodontist out   of st louis retired out here   and he does tip edge and there was   another one um richard lit he was the um   he taught   he was the chairman of the ortho   department university of california san   francisco then he went out to detroit   and he just says that you know he's   blackballed he can't even get published   in any ortho   i mean you go to st louis and you walk   in   the aao building and they're all happy   and smiling and then they find out   you're not an orthodontist it's like   get out of here i i'm i'm dead serious i   mean it's like   and that's probably why the orthodontist   that they have   that association has 95 of the   orthodontists are members   i mean the ada's got 65 the american   medical association doesn't even have 25   and the aao in st louis taught me one   thing that you want to keep everybody as   members you're gonna you're gonna um   you're gonna be jimmy hoffa and it's   just you   and you won't even talk to endodontist i   mean those   guys wouldn't even listen to a pediatric   dentist i mean they're they're just   militant you know they make a circle   they turn inward   and it works man they got 95 membership   but   when you're when you're doing this   online   uh stuff is this only for orthodontist   or would you let a low life scum bucket   dirt bag general dentist uh look at it   too   well it's quite a question well is   is it too much channel conflict for you   i mean i don't want you to come on my   show and destroy your   your your business no no no no   everything's fair game so   but i certainly don't feel that way   about gps but so let's talk about the   course so this this   insider's guide to the advanced clear   aligner treatment   this particular course is for   orthodontists only the pre-work   it's an advanced level course just like   in school you know you've got certain   prerequisites this one happens to be   starts at a level that you need to have   an orthodontic certificate and   now now getting back to the whole gp   thing i'm glad you brought it up you   think that changed   go ahead you you have a question before   we go on no i said you're really glad i   brought that up   i am glad you brought it up because i   think that i i don't   i don't think there's ever been a bigger   gulf and rift between gps and   orthodontists than there is right now   and there's never been a bigger rift   than right now no i don't think it's   ever been bigger and   and i think that's sad there was a time   where i did provide   i look when i got out of school i   learned that you were supposed to   collaborate with your referring dentist   and collaboration meant a lot of things   but it was always about what was   supposed to be in the best   interest of the patient uh and i was the   guy back in 1994 before invisalign   there were there was one or two gps in   the area that would occasionally do an   ortho case and i was the guy that they   could come to for advice   now part of that advice would be i would   tell them if i thought there was a case   that they shouldn't touch with a 10-foot   pole   and i felt like we developed a   relationship where they trusted me that   i wasn't   it wasn't self-serving that i wasn't   telling they had no business to do ortho   because they were taking money out of my   pocket   and i felt that we always had to keep  the patient's best interest in   heart and there were a couple of guys   who knew what they were doing when it   came to let's say like molar uprighting   or some minor   tooth movement and i was perfectly fine   with that but they also   were referring the you know the full   ortho cases which quite frankly   i still think are i mean i'm a   specialist for a reason i mean   would you go you know would you go to   your general physician for knee surgery   i mean we   become a very specialized society   and i think that it's important for gps   to have developed relationships with the   specialists whether it's the endodontist   the periodontist   or the orthodontist but what's happened   over time i mean i   i have very few   referrals from gps anymore because   they're all doing the cases themselves   and at some point i think that   there are cases to treat you know a   minor tooth movement case you have a   case you want to close the diastole and   maybe you want to set it up for veneers   i think those cases can be perfectly   handled by gps but you know skeletal   class threes and   and and skeletal class twos and deep   bytes i mean quite frankly   i have more experience and and more   training and i think that probably   on a routine basis i think i'm more   equipped to handle those cases   and i have a question for you because   you know and i listen gps   are licensed and trained   to do orthodontics there it's not a   crime for a general practitioner to to   provide orthodontic treatment agreed   right but now the interesting part comes   that you know what's to say   should i offer whitening in my office   should i maybe i mean i'm a dentist   should i offer   cosmetic procedures should i be doing   veneers i mean it's i think if the   gloves are off and i feel that way i   mean i think it's very adversarial now   between the orthodontists and the gps   but if the gloves are off   and gps feel like i've heard more than   one   gp orthodontic educator claim   that ortho belongs to the gps but   you know if that's going to be the   attitude if it's going to be adversarial   then you know maybe the orthodontist   need to do more whitening   and do more cosmetic procedures i don't   know i think but that's where we are   we're in a conflict and it used to not   be that way it used to be a   collaboration so if i could give advice   to a recent graduate of dental school   who's out in practice my advice would be   develop good relationships with your   specialists the specialists that you   trust   trust their advice because we're here to   help the patients   and and i think that that would be my my   best advice and   but having said that at this particular   point i think you're right   if if there was any if i did like an   orthodontic   course for gps i certainly wouldn't be   looked upon uh well by my specialty and   you know at some point howard i mean   well well   in my local area and i mean this isn't   if i ran a course in my local area   and then it affects my bottom line you   know   that that's a tough one that that's   that's a tough road to   to go down so your new curriculum   um that you've come up with that is on   so there's two things okay so aligner has been around for a while   and in fact when the pandemic came   around that became free that used to be   like like the netflix of orthodontic   education   doctors would pay a subscription for  that and then they would get access to a   library i've got hundreds of   case presentations marketing that's got   basically everything for an aligner   practice where basically you paid a fee   monthly fee and then you had access to   this entire  master class educational video library   so the pandemic hit and i just felt that   um   i just didn't have the heart to charge   so i decided to provide that at no   charge and that is continue   that it continues to be at no charge so   of the   the members of that group um still   probably 95 percent   by 95 orthodontists we have some some   gps on there i mean i can't i don't know   you know who's a gp who's an   orthodontist but but that's that's the second platform   is the   is the clear aligner course and that's   this 13-week   mini residency that's brand new that i'm   running with dr brigham   and that is that is for orthodontist   only so there's basically there's two   platforms out there   and he's he's my uh he's my neighbor   gary's a great guy yeah he's out here   back here so clear   aligner course dot com is um for   orthodontist only   um uh our i and it's 13 courses long   so basically it lives on a facebook   group so we have a private facebook   group   every week two modules are released   they're pre-recorded so doctors can   watch them   on demand online whenever they want so   they're always released on a sunday and   a wednesday but it's not like it's a   webinar so you want to log in on   a monday and watch the module you can   and every week is devoted to a different   topic we happen to be on teledentistry   this week which is something we could   talk about so doctors go online   because modules you you ought if you   already got all this content   and uh and thank you for all your um um   time on um orthotown i mean my god you   uh   thank you so much i mean you've been on   orthotown   uh my gosh since 2008 have almost 200  posts   um if you put one of those as a   uh online ce course on orthotown because   orthotown   you can only go if you're north an   orthodontist but i i think that would be   a huge marketing thing if you   did a uh um for some reason dentists   they still want their   agd they still want their ce credit and   if you put   if you put the first hour on orthodonti   on   i think it'd be an amazing free   marketing uh well you know that's   something we can talk about in fact   one of the things that i can offer at   this point is ce credit i've got a   couple of things in the pipeline   obviously   we can we can do all the ce credit for   you yeah but uh so yeah that would i   definitely would like to talk about that   so it's a 13-week course it's all online   but the nice part about it is   there's mentorship too so you you watch   the the modules at your at your leisure   and then you can go on to the facebook   group and you can discuss it with   with other members of the course as well   as with   with gary brigham and myself so you get   that sort of follow-up   as well so it's really online and on   demand but it's really   a customized kind of curriculum um and i   don't think there's any kind of   curriculum   that's like it out there i mean we talk   about teledentistry we talk about how to   maintain profitability obviously all the   clinical orthodontic stuff   um gary's actually this week's module is   going to be so has it already gone live   is week one already gone yeah right so   right now we're actually in week nine so   that we have another group   so we're going to start again our next   course will start on november 1st   so it would be too late i think it'd   just be too much material for you let's   say to log on now   but if anybody's interested in taking it   they can go to clear aligner course they   can sign up and the next course will   start   on november 1st so week one systematic   clint check review   week two invisalign first phase one to   invisalign class   three class two malik or week three   class two male occasion   week four invisalign with ma uh   what's ma malocclusion mandibular   advancement that's   a functional appliance that's built into   invisalign i'm just a general dentist   sorry about that   um week five is class three male   occlusion   um week six deep bite open bite   week seven acceleration orthodontics   week eight cosmetic dentistry for the   orthodontist   week 9 virtual consultation and remote   treatment monitoring   week 10 tmd and complex cases   week 11 smile anesthetics and   troubleshooting   week 12 creating great patient   experience   constitutionalist markets and i did   enough ortho to know   that you were missing the one thing i   needed the most   and that was um i'm all for general   dennis   learning the basics because you need to  be cross-trained because   you know if if 100 parents bring you in   100 kids   112 moms are going to ask is little   billy gonna need braces when he grows up   and and if you were from umkc class of   87   all i had was craniofacial growth and   development and embryology and i could   tell you that while you're bending   course right where they've made dna oh   my god so i   i knew nothing so i and and i didn't   want to do richard lit's course because   it was detroit   so i he told me he was a great   businessman he said well if you get   this many doctors i think it was 12. so   you get 12 doctors to sign up   um we'll take it so it was all my   alcoholic drinking friends   and it was the most fun it was like four   three-day weekends of drinking during   the class it was just   it was just so much fun but anyway um   but back to this deal um   i i you have to in dentistry i would   rather all the dentists   do see average work and no one's even   that good   or great if everybody got an a in the   diagnosis   and the treatment plan what i can't   stand is people are gonna a on their   uh dentistry and they got a d or an f on   the   diagnosis and treatment plan and you   just you just   have to know so i went through richard   lit's course and then i went through   harry green's course   and jack sheridan do you remember jack   sheridan yeah and went through jack   sheridan's courses   and and did you know i don't know 100   cases or whatever but   um to to be able to answer all these   questions   um i didn't i didn't keep doing it nor   did any other general dentist do it   because dude   if you have a crown i can do a thousand   dollars in an hour i don't want to get   married to you for two years   uh to have six crowns i'd rather have   six individuals a day   and get them all done i didn't like the   dating question but of all your 12-week   modules   i have to tell the young kids the   retention part   is a million times harder than the   straightening part   you straighten out all the teeth and   then it comes to   do you want the retainer thing and sure   enough in two years three years if   that's not right they're coming in   they're looking i thought   i thought retention was the reason i   wouldn't want to be an orthodontist i i   think   is it safe to say that retention is   harder than the original   treatment plan the original   straightening i mean certainly from us   from a psychological   you know stress point in the office it's   very difficult because it's again   look everything needs maintenance i mean   if you do periodontal treatment on a   patient and they don't   do what they're supposed to at home it   breaks down so i mean it's   this is just the way it works i mean   everything in life needs needs   maintenance   and but you're cutting these patients   loose at some point you really can't see   them forever but you're cutting these   patients lose some point with   with certain levels of responsibility   and literature shows that a   good percentage of the patients   ultimately stop wearing their retainers   and   of that percentage about 60 or you're   going to have significant relapse but   look it's not you know it's funny like   if we were if this was a   podcast and we were plastic surgeons   you know it's not like people go in and   get a facelift   and then expect it to last forever but   but imagine if you will   that you got a facelift and the doctor   said look i want you to wear this little   mask every night while you're sleeping   and if you do that you'll never get   another wrinkle   and the the the face lift will last   forever   or you know if there was a hat that i   could have worn when i was   18 years old that it would prevented   baldness i think i'd be a rich guy   and and that's what we have with   retainers i mean it's it's the   anti-aging miracle for your teeth   but at some point as you know with any   dental procedure   i can't go on go home and wear wear wear   them for the patient   so i mean it's just the way life is i   mean everything goes towards entropy   so is it a failing of orthodontics it   turns out that 66   of adults who never had orthodontic   treatment have lower incisor crowding   you know by the time they're 40. so it's   just part   you know it's just part of being human   so you may be howard part of the  the issue is you know the way we were   trained in dental school which is that   you know if it breaks down   20 years from now you're the failure i   mean that's kind of was my my dental   education it was probably yours too   but but we're treating people and so   what you've said is very important for   the kids to get and   and there's a satisfaction equals   perception of what happened   minus what i expected and i always think   the orthopedic surgeons are better than   all the implantologists because   they'll do a knee or a hip it's fifty   thousand dollars in the   2d is 100 grand and they tell them it'll   last five years   five years after so then in five years   they're like mine's still working and i   i didn't have to   have it read until seven or eight years   they're happy what does the dennis say   you know you get this implant here   someday you'll take it to heaven   yeah what the hell did you just say that   for yeah   it's certainly not evidence-based   dentistry i mean the evidence doesn't   show that that anything lasts forever   so so you lower their expectations and   you know like   like people come in i i i see it all the   time they'll say well if i have that   root canal can i go back to work   absolutely you'll be fine what the hell   did you say ever   i say you know when they say well   they'll be paying afterwards i said   at home do you do you have a gun and   they and they'll go yeah why and i said   well   when this anesthesia wears off you're   going to you're going to need that   pistol okay you're going to need to   shoot yourself   right in the head this thing uh of hell   no you're not going to be able to go   back to work you'll be lucky if you get   and then they come back three days and i   say howard you won't even believe this   i i was fine i actually went back to   work so you lower   every time i extract a tooth i always   hold the tooth   in the forcept in their face because the   root is never straight unless it's you   know like a lower incisor there's always   some girl i said   look at the hook on that thing that   thing was hooked up   behind your cheekbone under your eye i   swear to god when this anesthetic wears   off i hope   i hope you're on the top of a tall   building because you're probably going   to want to dive off head first   and they're just like whoa so i lower   the expectations so i'm   always a hero and and they would tell me   they'd say well   if i quit wearing my retainer well how   long do i have to wear my retainer and i   say well   until i shoot you because if if i   shoot you right now they'll be straight   the rest of your life but if you're   going to go on   living and breathing and talking and   having your tongue hit the lower teeth   3000 times a day every time you say a   syllable   then you're gonna have to have a bar so   my question to you is for the the   general dentist diagnosing and treating   planning um   some general dentists are saying they're   telling adults we'll do invisalign   because the last invisalign tray is your   permanent retainer   and if sentiment shifts around you get   another invisalign tray   where if you do fixed you're gonna   really need to cement a lingual bar   around the bottom inside of the lower   six teeth   um i hear that's what people are saying   um what what do you think of that advice   from a general dentist   so well the first and for the first   invis the last invisalign tray which is   made out of like this bilayer plastic   you know the smart trek plastic   it's certainly not going to hold up you   probably you might get a month or two   out of it so if you're going to go with   some kind of   clear type retainer you're probably   better off to use something like vivera   which you know your patient gets   four sets of them because the plastic   does fatigue so   i i don't i don't advocate using that   last tray because it's just it's in two   months   you're just kicking the can down the   road and the patient's going to come   back and say   my my tray broke what am i supposed to   do now having said that you know the   teeth   that fundamentally the teeth don't know   the difference   whether they're being pushed around with   brackets and wires or whether they're   being pushed around   with clear aligners so from a   philosophical standpoint   the retention protocol should not be any   different whether you're treating   patient with braces   or whether you're treating a patient   with invisalign or clear aligners   so then you have options so we and i   give the patient that option they can   get a fixed  uh retainer um or they can get a   removable retainer both have their pros   and cons   but that bavara that that's an   invisalign though product vivera is an   invisalign product you you would do a   scan of the patient's teeth or order off   the last stage   and they send you four sets of really   nice   durable material that maybe each one can   last anywhere between a year and two   years depending on how much the   patient's boxing   but at least they give that gives that   patient some   some time you know to with the retainers   as far as a fixed retainer listen this   pros and cons to both   fixed retainers are great until they   break when you're on you know in the   caribbean on vacation and you can't find   an orthodontist so the fix   your patients come in and they ask for a   permanent retainer and we never call it   that because the adhesives fail and   the wires eventually fatigue you know   anytime you put a rigid element   next to mobile teeth something's going   to break and it's usually either the   adhesive or the wire   so the the fixed retainers and then   there's also the hygiene issues with   flossing and calculus buildup and all   that kind of stuff   so the fixed retainers have their pros   and cons and and then the removable   retainers are great   until you know fido eats it or or johnny   loses   it and then that people say what  retainer oh you never give me a retainer   well i i need to go i need to go back to   cleanup point because you said that   their hygiene's not that great um   i was um um i had benjamin burris   on the show um years ago and he was a   my sister lives out in fayetteville   arkansas and he's out there in arkansas   and i think it's insane when they um   they have to go to the orthodontist he   takes everything off then they come to   my office we do the cleaning then they   gotta go back to the orthodontist   and you know that's a doctor   um focus system and ben said you know   that's crazy we're gonna have our own   hygienist   and he hired hygienist and that's one   stop shop i mean   and it's the business model look at   implants the number one implant business   model is we're gonna get the   the surgeon and the prostate on us and   the lab guy and we're gonna put them all   in one room and that's clear choice   and that they're they're selling uh with   something like i mean it's   crazy number of uh total arches a year   um every the the fastest growing   business model in my backyard   uh for your department is when a   pediatric dentist and an orthodontist go   in together   because you know everybody any mom who's   got it together to take her kid to a   pediatric dentist is gonna ask does   little   johnny need braces and she's right there   and then i i thought um absolutely   and i want to remind everybody i want to   remind us that   i'm not here to be your friend you know   you know when when you go to your   grandpa   and he tells you you know going through   life drunk is not a good idea or   was that what is that a dumb and dumber   movie where he says that going through   life   dumb fat and drunk but i'm gonna tell   you the truth actually   was an animal house yeah yeah fat   drunken stupid is no way to go through   life son   it's something like that right the dean   warmer yeah   yeah i want that quote kyle can you find   me that quote and and texted me um but   anyway um   um i i just want to remind you that that   you know i'm always going to call you on   your   and the um the only reason dennis make   the big bucks   is because 1900 100 years ago 120 years   ago   um the new political party the democrats   and republicans who have been in control   since the civil war to this day   they got a lot of money from a lot of   doctors and they in one   year they closed down 90 percent of all   the med schools dense schools and   licensed doctors   and set up 50 state boards said we are   going to license a school   we're going to license a doctor and   we're going to get rid of all the all   this crap   okay so that was good for quality  control and   it got rid of all the competition and   that's why you make the big bucks   but in where there's poor people like in   phoenix arizona where like i'm across   from the guadalupe indian reservation 25   5 000 yaki indians 20 000 illegal   we're supposed to call them illegal   mexicans when we stole the land from   them at gunpoint   and so if they're living on the land we   stole at gunpoint now they're an illegal   and every time there's not one dentist   in that area and every time   a licensed dentist from mexico or molar   city down in yuma   um which uh you cross the wall into yuma   arizona's molar city   there's more dentists in that square   mile density than any place in the world   and americans are going down there um to   get cheaper dentistry but when that   mexican   dentist comes in guadalupe and starts   doing dentistry for the poor and   they charge like 20 of filling the   government   will send a policeman to arrest him and   kidnap him and put him in a cage and   deport him   and um and so um i   as a registered libertarian i mean i've   never bought into the democrat   binary star highway to hell   race to the bottom you know i one   robbed the bank one drove the getaway   car and neither of them impressed me   on what made america great which was 500   years of immigration   and the greatest minds voted with their   feet   left wherever the hell they were and   came here   and um i don't i would um i think that   the   dental licensure should say oh well   um you are a licensed dentist   and uh my gosh um um you know um barry   uh   uh glazer he went to these universities   he's certified the school survivor he's   a licensed dentist in new york okay   that's great   but where did you go off saying that the   unlicensed dentist   who just moved here from italy who went   to school i mean i mean that when i got   to arizona   and world war ii had just gotten out and   a lot of people got the hell out of   germany   especially the jewish people you go down   to australia all the big labs   ruth port laboratory these were all   jewish germans that got the hell out   and this woman came here and came to the   country from mercedes-benz to the land   of chrysler   and they they didn't honor her dental   diploma from germany are you kidding me   there's one graduating class from a   jewish   private school in uh in uh um   europe that was made everything possible   for everything you buy at this buy   i mean from faraday to marie perry to   albert einstein   i mean the this germany was the smartest   country in the world and they wouldn't   honor her license   so she could only own a dental office   she couldn't work with her hands   and if you want to provide low-cost   um health care and medicine and   dentistry ain't medicaid   it's closing down those state boards and   then the lady i bought my mcmansion from   american-born got brain cancer paid   taxes   millionaire an american pharmaceutical   made a can   made a drug for brain cancer uh but she   can have it because it wasn't fda   approved   and she said and she got lawyers like   can i get on the study no and the lawyer   said but they're selling it   out on the corner in all of scandinavia   so she had to sell her house to me   and move to copenhagen denmark to get a   drug   made by an american company for an   american with brain cancer   and when i told um senator mccain that   i said you got indian reservations um   you know you make gambling illegal why   don't you make an   fda free zone so she could have stayed   here   and the way he laughed he's like and i   said   wow the system must be so   messed up and gross i mean i mean to say   something that obvious and get a   you know that that'll never fly it's   like that'll never fly it's an american   lady   retired with brain cancer you got a   pharmaceutical making a drug   and she's got to go to denmark to get it   that's a laugh it's just sick it's so   sick i'm a libertarian   the fda now see that's great if if i got   uh   cancer say i got prostate cancer all men   will get it if they live to be a hundred   you're right it's like 95 percent of men   will get it if they literally be 100.   and they said to me and they said to me   there's two drugs this one's fda   approved and this one's not   well i would try the fda approved one   first but what's unacceptable to me   and my 12-gauge shotgun is for a   government mobster to say   well due to the current system of   bribery um   you're not allowed to uh try that and in   fact   we passed law they got to try it on mice   for five years it's like dude you got a   living rat right here   i'm the human cockroach i'm willing to   do it and they say no   i mean they cross so many lines i mean   governments cross so many lines for 5   000 years i still find it just bizarre   especially young millennials they're   like um they're always running to the   government to   to help them it's like dude you should   be running away from the government   they've caused every crime for the last   five   thousand years and and you're and you're   running to them like their mom   they're not your mom they're your killer   they're the mob   so um so we got on so many tangents i   have my question going   the question going back to the deal is   benjamin burris   i think he should have hygienist   i know he's got real controversy about a   lot of other things but back to that   issue do you think   do you think ben burris was right that   orthodontist should have hygienists   and screw the state boards   well i thought we weren't going to talk   about religion and politics but uh   you know you know it's   we'll change the sex no no no but you   know it's because you know my son my son   actually just graduated from the   university of pittsburgh with a degree   in political science so you know i   learned   a lot more about libertarianism and you   know   and and things that honestly you know   growing up in new york that i didn't   really know all that much about and   you know there's i don't know what the   right answer is i mean i think every   every you know sort of viewpoint   in a political viewpoint in our country   you know you can make a compelling   argument for all of them   um certainly out in your neck of the   woods i think that you know your type of   viewpoint that you know the   the government is supposed to be for for   the people and not   not the other way around um you know   carries a lot of weight but   you know it's in in in the time that we   have it's it's not so simple howard and   i think you know that too   um do we   just get rid of get get rid of   government get rid of all regulations   right let people do what they want i i i   don't want to get rid of montgomery   because i think it's simple geometry i   mean i'm an individual   of eight billion organisms in this   species   so there's a space at the top for   organization i mean i i just think   there's   macro effects and there's individual   effects and i think the individual   and the macro should should get along   and negotiate and do everything they can   you bet stopping short of you kidnapping   me   putting me in a cage and killing me so   it's like it's like a problem here's why   i don't do business with the mob   it's because if i do business with the   mom   and it doesn't work out right they'll   kill me that's why i don't wouldn't go   into drug dealing because   if i'm dealing with a guy that owns   eight subways and we get an argument   we'll we'll work it out same thing with   with delta   if i have a problem with delta dental i   mean going all the way back to ed judd   the first director   uh to the guy right now alan ala ford i   mean we meet we're civil we'll talk   there's never even a lawsuit   but when a dentist um when my friend my   very good friend   had the most adorable wife barber and   she was in charge of the front office   and she just   he didn't marry her for her data entry   skills she was gorgeous   and she screwed up all the medicaid   billing and when medicaid finally found   out about it they there was charges   anyway he got the best attorney he could   afford and they said that we could plea   bargain yeah   and get you um out of prison in five   years he's like   five years so he had to sell his home   and his practice   and go spend the rest of his life in   mexico city why   because he did business with the mob you   don't do business with medicaid   you don't do business with medicare   because if something goes south   they will kidnap you they will put you   in a cage and you may die and in human   history   one percent of the people are killed by   their own family tribe   and six percent of the people are killed   by the government overlords   the government or the lords are   murderers i i don't deal with them   you know this this this conversation   actually it went on a lot at the   beginning when the pandemic started to   hit   and you know getting back to that you   know and then you know certain certain   states were shutting down   you know and it would be this this this   sort of this tension   between individual liberty right which   is supposedly what our country is   founded on right individual liberty   but uh but on the other hand that we   have to have a functioning society now   listen i'm no i'm no i'm no political   scientist but it you know individual   liberty does it go as far as   does individual liberty mean i can do   whatever the f i want whenever i can   do it and i think most people would   agree and in fact there's supreme court   decisions and you know there's a 200   years that say okay well   certainly you know individual liberties   have to be infringed on maybe that's not   the right word my son would laugh me   when we're let's say affecting someone   else right so like you can't kill   another person i think that we would all   agree   that freedom doesn't mean that you can   take somebody else's life or   you can't take their land right i mean   that's a fundamental   attendant of this country that my land   is my land   but but that brings up an important   point and the important point is that   we're not ever really truly free and i   think that's   and i think we have to understand that   because without   any sort of structure in society society   can function it can't be everybody   rowing the boat in a different direction   and everybody doing or   their own thing and you know it comes   back to the mask thing when people say   you know you can infringe on my civil   liberties and it's i mean   i don't think it's a question that   anybody can answer but you can make an   argument that but if you're sick   and you sneeze on me and you get me sick   you know so you know it's   it's it's it's a much deeper question   than that and it's the same thing you   know with   you know you know does did could ben   varus have you know hygienist did the   the was the dental board right and all   that kind of stuff and   it's it's a very very it's a very very   difficult answer and people like to   oversimplify it   people like to say read the constitution   read the first amendment read the second   amendment but they forget that there are   have been   supreme court decisions that interpret   those amendments and that the the   the constitution was drafted as a living   breathing document   and i think the founding fathers   understood that times change and that's   why we have the judiciary correct   and and the other i agree with   everything you're saying and and   remember kids that   almost every supreme court decision that   was ever made was like the   important that was five to four so it   means they were looking at the same   constitution in the same language and   the same books and the same words   and five said yes and four said no   and and so the devils and the details i   agree with all that   i just i just it just comes down i just   have one litmus point   if i disagree with you are you going to   kidnap me put me in a cage and kill me   personally no i that was no i might that   wasn't on my agenda for today   and when you're like we'll see and when   your idea   when your idea is so good that no one   will agree with you   until you kidnap them put them in a cage   and kill them   um then you know you need killed i mean   it's uh it's crazy but um so yeah   so um we probably talked enough about uh   uh the the ben burris and the uh all   that kind of stuff like that   um so you this course is for   orthodontist only   yeah it's a 13 week it starts again   november first november 1st   and will this be um starts uh the second   round or the second   series so this will be a completely new   group so the course will recycle so   basically the first group will graduate   and this is a whole new class   starting over from the beginning so   it'll be the second class second class   yeah and did the uh first class   um when you did your first uh 13-week   online class   um did you um get feedback you weren't   expecting   did you do a lot of changes for the   second class what did you learn   from the first 13-week class of   graduates   um that you're um are going to change in   the second 13 week   you know it's a great question we   actually i actually sent out a survey   right at the beginning   sort of as a pre-test you know i used to   get those pre-tests and they give you   the same tests later on to see how much   you learned   so i sent that a survey at the beginning   now obviously we're still ongoing   i have learned certainly we we have   continued to   adjust the curriculum in fact one of the   doctors asked i don't do any 3d   in-house aligners i get all my aligners   from align technology   but one of the doctors had some   questions about 3d printed aligners so i   spoke to   a new friend of mine ruse casvani who's   the 3d printing mache an   expert so he's going to do a module on   that so as we're going through the   course   we're get getting an idea of let's say   maybe some of the gaps that we've missed   so   we're re-recording some of our modules   for the next next   next course it went from 12 weeks to 13   weeks probably the next   one will be 14 weeks as we keep finding   that there's more things that people   want to learn about we tried to make   gary and i tried to make it   comprehensive so we again we start the   beginning   as you talked about the first week is   diagnosis and treatment planning it's   critical and then we went through   different malocclusions and now kind of   on the back side of the course we're   talking more about the business   of orthodontics and how to be profitable   and uh you know we didn't even get a   chance to talk about you know some of   the tele-dentistry platforms if you want   to have me back on someday   we can talk about things like invisalign   virtual care and dental monitoring   but um yeah so in listen and i think by   probably by   january it's going to be a different   planet and we'll probably have to retool   the course all over again   as the planet starts to spin in a   different direction you know um   your um podcasts are huge now and i'm a   big fan   of i like your uh if you go to forward slash podcast   aligner aligner podcast   um he's got 76 episodes but do you know   you can uh   anybody in dentistry can upload their   podcast for free   on dental town orto town or hygiene town   if you just go to orthotown   and you hit podcast it says all podcast   shows   and it says create it out of my own but   i'm going to tell you this because i i   know podcasts i mean i'm pretty i've   been doing this for four years   um oh my gosh there are dentists on   dental town   that 90 of america had never even heard   of before   that have hundreds of thousands of views   from their podcast on dentaltown and uh   um   and um so man i would upload your   podcast   and then uh and then everybody that does   it um says that their   their podcasts explode on itunes and   spotify   because you know they they heard it for   you know 70 000   dentists have downloaded uh the   dentaltown app   and the orthotown app and you put that   up there a lot of times   people will just see it and then they   might subscribe to it like when i find   someone else's podcast   i always check first if it's on youtube   i don't know why   i i don't know why ninety percent of   youtubers are boys and not girls but   girls go to pinterest girls go to   instagram   and snap but boys go to youtube i i   don't know if we're just more visual or   whatever but   i tell everybody in dentistry if you've   got a podcast put it up for free   on orto town dental town hygiene town   and uh   go video so you got that mr clean look   you're  charming handsome how come you're not on   youtube and you're audio only   uh i don't know you tell me   well what we're doing with zoom right   now we used to do with skype you know   what i mean   what we're doing with zoom i mean who's   ever doing your audio   could do it but um if you're trying to   attract boys   um boys are on youtube and um and   and i don't think um i i i don't think   sergey brin   and larry page even know uh why you   listen   i mean you are you look you are you   understand media a lot better than i do   a lot of this is still as you can see   i think you can see from the things that   i'm doing so some of it hasn't really   reached   maturity yet you know we're kind of   still experimenting with some of this   stuff so   you know i definitely appreciate the   feedback and will   you know now lean on you heavily you'll   really come to regret it   well what i love about it is you know   it's just um my gosh um   when i was uh in dental school these um   these   real guys we'd call them you know they   weren't the institutional inmates you   know wasn't the warden and the   the the deals these real guys i remember   uh one guy came in from the um   paul um paul permay   who was way out in olathe but they would   come in and we would gravitate around   them because they were they were   from the outside they were from over the   wall and they would tell us that you   could do a denture in less than 20   appointments and   then you didn't have to use the rubber   base and and um   and i i just think that um the great   that knowledge has no value unless it's   transferable and for   guys like us who've been doing it for   decades to be able to package up a   conversation and give it to the kids for   free while they're   still in dental kindergarten school or   they're out and the love letters they   send you   because other dentists their dad was a   dentist uh they're in dental school   their mom was a dance well what if your   mom's not a dentist what if you're a   dentist and your mom   isn't uh you need a neighbor you need   someone from the community i think these   are   excellent formats and then it puts   things in perspective like i bought the   first three books written   by gv black and i'm telling you you   don't realize how fast things are   changing until you read gv black talking   about   drilling holes into the jaw to let out   the evil spirits   and then draws them and funny how   all the evil spirits   look like court jesters from the king i   thought that was very   very interesting uh the parallel though   but uh   it's a fast-changing move and to get   this on   so um i gotta tell you um it must be   you must have um pretty ballsy to be   able to have to be teaching   ortho to orthodontist i mean you know   teaching ortho to a bunch of general   dentists   you know if you weren't that great we   wouldn't know it but man that that's a   whole nother level when you're teaching   a whole can of worms but listen i think   that   um i'm pretty confident in what i do i   think i   my experience look i've been teaching   i've been teaching ever since dental   school   i used to tutor kids in dental school   and and then after i graduated from   ortho school i took a full-time academic   position at montefiore so i've always   been   passionate about teaching and i i don't   know i consider myself to   hopefully i'm a reasonably humble guy i   happen to be a really good teacher   and um and then i was able to pick up   the a gig from align technology you know   as a faculty member and   you know i've traveled to five out of   the seven continents i don't think i'll   be teaching   invisalign and in antarctica but um i   have a lot of experience i mean   like anything else howard you know you   get good at it after a while   um you know i wrote my the book that i   wrote in 2017 became a bestseller my mom   is also very proud of that   um so i i think that and i have to tell   you i have to say there's a lot of   people to thank but no one   more than uh anthony gianelli he was my   program chairman at bu he passed away 10   years ago   but dr genelli was it was a giant and i   will never ever be able to fill his   shoes but he was   such a brilliant man and he was able to   make concepts so easy for us mere   mortals to understand and i've always   tried to   you know strive to to at least try to   partially fill his shoes   but you know i mean i have no problem   teaching orthodontist i think that you   know they're   i i don't i'm not above them i mean i   think i've always tried to be you know   collaborative with them too and i have   an open mind and it's always been a   really great experience and you know   it's never   never been a problem and um you   um we were talking about um   the aligner insider podcast is that for   orthodontists only could general dennis   listen to that no no anybody can listen   to that   and just be clear again i don't want to   be in trouble spotify or any of the   any of that i would be a troublemaker   but it could general dennis take your   clear aligner course   and all that or does that really kind of   be taboo so the clear aligner course is   just for for orthodontist now there are   a couple of places where you can   collaborate   one of them is on our facebook group   aligner insider clinical chat   that's a it's a closed facebook group   that is orthos and gps   i have you know and i have taken crap   for that too   but i feel like that is a good place   maybe to   to try to re-establish a good   collaborative versus a   relationship a liner insider   colon clinical chat yes   one word or two two   okay all right and we'll but let me um   let me ask this a different way the use   of tele-dentistry platforms such as   dental monitoring   invisalign virtual care invisalign   virtual appointment and   smile snap which one of those are you   using   and if you had a hundred patients how   many of them would be   using that format once or twice or all   the time can you talk a little bit of   that because   i know wall street's freaked out about   telemedicine   telehealth i mean they can't quit   writing articles on it   they think it's going to change the   world and i have to tell you it's pretty   exciting   when you're 82 year old mother um   doesn't have to get in the car   and drive clear across wichita to go   talk to a doctor for 10 minutes   and he and he calls her on her ipad and   she it's just great because i think my   mom has a higher chance of dying driving   clear across wichita kansas i don't know   if you've ever been there but it's   bat crazy it's like a f-150 you   know nascar race   um to stay home i mean you know   so so dental let's start with dental   monitoring so dental modern so first of   all i think that you can use technology   for the forces of good or for the forces   of evil   um you can use it to push your patients   out the door   or you can use it to be a better doctor   and that's how i choose to use it so   dental monitoring   is a platform that uses a patient's   smartphone every week they do a series   that's called the dental monitoring scan   using their smartphone and there's   artificial intelligence that can look at   175 different parameters   i'm essentially using this for   invisalign but you can also use it for   patients   with fixed appliances but let's just   talk about invisalign it can see hygiene   it can see recession it can see tooth   movement it can see if a tooth hasn't   completed its movement   and a lot of this is an automated uh   process   so patients weekly we i'm essentially   doing a weekly   remote house call on my patients so i'm   seeing their teeth   me and my staff and my dental monitoring   coordinator marisol   we're seeing these patients on a weekly   basis now if everything's coming along   if they're aligners fit fine if their   hygiene is fine if everything's fine   typically i don't even know about it   because my dental monitoring coordinator   knows that   there's nothing that they're doing fine   but we now see patients our invisalign   patients   on demand so howard let's say your case   is 30 aligners   and you're compliant you wear your   liners you use your chewies but not that   adults do that but just theoretically   someday i'll have an adult who actually   follows instructions   but let's say that's you and your   treatment is coming along beautifully   you won't need to come to my office for   30 weeks even though i'm seeing you   every week   especially in a pandemic patients really   appreciate that   but even if it's not a pandemic you know   a good chunk of my patients are   teenagers   and they're busy and the moms are busy   and you know we have two income families   in this area and and   they hopefully they love the   orthodontist but they've got better   things to do   so we can use this technology to monitor   their treatment   to make sure that they stay on track um   to   to give them notifications automatically   if there's plaque or gingival   inflammation i mean   the list goes on and on but i see the   patients when i need to if they need ipr   if they need an attachment   if they're if their treatment's gone off   the rails that kind of stuff   the interesting thing about it though is   it's like weight watchers   there's a reason why weight watchers   makes you get on the scale every week   and the reason why is that their clients   are more successful with their weight   loss because they're accountable   so orthodontics you know we're in any   dentistry we're in the accountability   business where we're   asking our patients to be compliant   following our instructions   so using telemedicine teledentistry   platforms like this   helps to keep patients accountable and   you get better results faster   it's pretty amazing well i just want to   say one thing about weight watchers i   can save you a lot of   time on that uh what you do is   you put the scale   on your bed and then you get up on your   bed and you stand on the scale   and um you'll be you'll lose at least 20   30 pounds   if you go to the moon uh you'll weigh 40   percent less but put   do ever put that scale on a really hard   surface or you know   just uh it's not doing its job now you   tell me so   so you're talking um was all of that   what you were saying   was that more dental moderating um   that's all dental monitoring that's all   dm that's all dental monitoring which is   out of paris france   that's uh phillips salah yeah have you   met phillip   i have he's a brilliant man he's an   engineer uh   by you know original uh training um he's   a brilliant man and   yeah we've actually met several times   done some uh work together   uh well i would i would love to have um   i i think the follow-up to you would be   gary brigham um who does a lot of   teaching with him   and uh phillip saul so um tell them both   that um   first of all yeah tell them both because   um everybody   wants to know and and like say what i'm   most um   what i'm what i'm really wanting to know   is i know what we're all doing   during a pandemic but what is going to   change that won't go and a lot of it has   to do with momentum   i mean um you know you you need to know   your vectors and   and um working from home has been going   on for 10 or 20 years   and i remember um i'm lucky i fought   that here   but my team you know you can't keep a  bunch of people 20 30 years by   telling them no and lori and and   stacy and ken and and hogo   and so many people um wanted to work for   a home so when the pandemic came we were   all ready to go and now   when everybody had to work from home now   i'd say 80 percent   of in the media company dental town   ortho town high gen they don't want to   come back now at today's dental   you know it's retail yeah you have to   come back but we were talking about um   dental monitoring so all that was   talking about dental monitoring   which i'd love to get that guy on the   show because on dental town every third   threads about   tele dentistry when you turn on kramer   on nbc it's always   telehealth tell the dentistry all that   kind of stuff but you did but i figured   a big guy like you with a joe hogan   invisalign they have invisalign virtual   care   invisalign virtual appointment and smile   snap   um are they not um do you like dental  monitoring   out of france better than the three   invisalign stuff   all right so look i'm an aligned faculty   member and by the way i'm a kol   you should this is disclosure i'm not   getting you know i'm not being   compensated for this but i am a kol for   dental monitoring and i'm a kol   for align technology so having said that   you know the views and   opinions that i'm expressing are my own   but so i just want to get that out of   the way for the audience to know   having said that align has their own   products that have just really launched   recently so that's invisalign virtual   care and we have patients i was the   first   i would have got a brag i was the first   orthodontist on the planet to have   invisalign virtual care   came out in february we were going to   beta test it and then   covert 19 hit and we align decided to   release it even though it's sort of in   its infancy to all its doctors because   it is a conduit where you can   stay in contact with your patients so   invisalign virtual care is another   tele-dentistry platform that allows you   to monitor   your invisalign patients it's an  indesign obviously proprietary thing   that allows you to monitor your   invisalign patients it doesn't have the   ai   and some of the bells and whistles that   you know the dental monitoring has   over time i'm sure you know it will   become more and more mature but for   those doctors who maybe   want to dip their toe in the water it's   right on your invisalign doctor site   there's no cost for it so you can start   to   sign your patients up onto that they use   an app the my invisalign   app on their phone uh and it's a similar   sort of method   it's more um it's not automated but it's   another method where you can communicate   with your patients you can see   images of their teeth and their aligners   and you can you keep   them appraised of their progress and let   them know how they're doing um   and also with invisalign virtual   appointment where essentially you are   using   align technologies zoom account which is   hipaa compliant   and you can then write from that virtual   care   app you can set uh conference video   conferences up with your patients so   let's say a patient has a question   tooth's not tracking you can you can go   right in there you can schedule the   appointment right right from the the app   and set up the patient just like we're   doing with the zoom appointment which   for certain look for certain things is   appropriate and for certain things is   not appropriate the reason i bring this   up is   i know there's going to be doctors  listening to this and say   he's just as bad as the direct to   consumer orthodontic you know companies   and   and my answer to that is what i think   i'm doing is the exact opposite   this is more of me not less of me i mean   if i'm howard if i mean you and i are   talking   you're in phoenix and i'm in westchester   but yet we're still we're still sharing   ideas   and we're still communicating and i   didn't have to get on a plane and go to   phoenix   so you can use technology to like i said   before   for for better dentistry or you can use   technology to try to   take advantage i suppose so all the   things that i do i think this gives me   more touch points with my patients but   more in just in a virtual way   it's not let's talk about smile snap so   if you go to my website which is   a little box a little widget will pop it   up at the bottom and it will say welcome   to glaze orthodontics would you like to   do a virtual consultation   the patients answer a couple of   questions and using their phone   upload a series of photos and now   can i can i diagnose periodontal disease   or carries of course   and that that on your website that is   dental monitored that snippet   you call it a widget or a snippet or   it's a widget so if you go to   glaze i'm on it glazer   either way either way oh yeah either way   this either way we'll get you to the   same place okay and then you should see   in the bottom right right corner a   little box that pops up that's smile   snap that's not dental monitoring this   is a different company   oh it's a third company this is smile   snap   okay i i yeah i got i i don't know why i   thought smile snap wasn't   was owned by invisalign no smile snap is   i don't i mean i don't know who the   parent company is but they're they're   the smile snap people the good people at   smile snap   um so that's a separate standalone thing   you pay a fee it's a   subscription fee it's like 199 a month   but they you get that widget   and the widget pops up and the page you   can if you want to do it you can enter   yes you can   answer questions and then you can upload   some photos with your phone   now again it's not the replacement of   a full suite of orthodontic records   which is the ceph pan montage of photos   and these days the niteroskin so it   doesn't replace that   but it's a touch point it's a way of   attracting consumers to my office that i   want to make into patients   so so far we probably have had oh i   don't know 50   60 patients that have interacted with   this and i was just checked today i   think we've had like 12 or 13 starts   so it's not a great conversion rate but   it's 13 starts   you know that revenue we're probably   talking about sixty seventy thousand   dollars in revenue   that's not too shabby and what's for 199   a month   what is that revenue uh model when you   look at the value of an orthodontic   patient   um what do you how do you uh do the math   on valuing that is six thousand   seven thousand so the average the   average if you take   everybody in my practice and you average   it out the case fee is going to be about   six thousand now i'm in westchester it's   like scottsdale you know it's   you know it's not it's it's an expensive   area to practice and the case fees tend   to be higher   but my fees vary you know one thing that   i'm doing differently than what i   learned you know an ortho school was   like you know my way of the highway it's   either you're gonna get a class one   perfect occlusion or i can't help you   you know now we have patients we have   this program that we call fix my smile   it's 39.99 um we're not it's typically   for adults   almost always for adults where let's say   maybe they've got a skeletal class too   and they don't want orthognathic surgery   i mean that's it but but my mom wants to   get her teeth straightened for a   daughter's wedding   and we'd do a shorter maybe we'd use   like an invisalign express product or   you know moderate product we use one of   the other   lower stage products with invisalign and   we treat them in let's say six months   and i'm perfectly fine with that i mean   every orthodontist has to make that   decision for themselves but you know i   learned   above all else do no harm so if the   patient let's say has a functional   malocclusion   and i'm giving them a cosmetic   improvement i'm not hurting them i'm   okay with that   so our fees range based on what you need   so the full case fee   like a surgical case would be 7 500 all   the way down to let's say 39.99 for more   of those sort of social six type   treatments   and what is wrong with parents like when   uh people tell me they go on you know do   you think my daughter needs   braces and i'm like dude your daughter's   beautiful i'd ugly her up i'd pull all   of her teeth   you'll never have to worry about her   getting married she'll never i mean just   think of all the money you would savor   if you uglied her up   and then all the parents best idea is to   make her   look as pretty as a peacock and i'm like   i don't i don't think you understand how   this uh   how this game works um but i want to   start with the   the last the first thing we started on   um   you um i know on orthotown uh i i can't   read or town i'm i'm i own the site but   i'm not a orthodontist   but i know in the past you've you talked   about ortho marketing and we started   this show and that's how i want to end   it   um again some people   they're young and they're scared they're   like   i don't know if i should be trying to   market getting humans in to come in   and they should stay home so what would   i mean i mean some kids believe that the   school should be open   some people believe they should be shy   and i get that you two   two adults can completely disagree and i   love those my god in college a creighton   to argue till three o'clock in the   morning about   politics and really i love it but it   never broke out into a kidnapping a   fight and a murder   by the way i was podcasting um the only   dentist   in antarctica and he said the russians   had to ban the game of chess   because it's so dark and so brutal and i   mean uh you know   uh that um two russians were playing a   chess game and one the guy that lost   killed the other guy   and uh so you know a stranger things   happen but but   what's the ethics of uh reaching out to   someone like uh   say uh dean steinman of ortho marketing   um in the middle of a pandemic would you   say that's good or tasteless   personally i think it's good but i don't   i don't i will preface that with it as   an individual choice so this is   this is just according to me i'm not   here to tell anybody what to do   so i could certainly you know i can   appreciate the other viewpoint for sure   as far as i'm concerned i feel like the   protocols that we have set up in our   office make   make it appropriate for us to see   patients in the office and treat them   we do everything we can to follow all   the rules we we   honor social distancing we limit the   number of we have   we only have two of our four chairs   operating you know parents can't come in   so we're doing everything that i think   that all the letters here the osha cdc   uh fda all the   all done fda but you know in the ada uh   the aao they're all recommending all   these things we're trying to follow all   them to the best of our ability   and and i'm personally comfortable you   know coming into the practice every day   and working um so from that standpoint i   think someone like dean i've worked with   dean for a long time dean   does all his company does my website all   my social media marketing um you know   facebook instagram you know all that   kind of stuff   was he the one that conceptually gave   you the mr clean look   well you know i'll tell you he's not as   good looking as me but he's not bad   looking he's a handsome man you know   but but was it his idea that you look   like mr clean   i would say you know it's funny i   thought you were gonna go with the   walter white thing   that's usually what i get you know the   breaking bad thing but uh oh that's   right i   didn't even think of that i'm kind of   giving away my   i'm giving away i have to work on my   biceps a little bit but um   but anyway so dean he happens to be   another bald jewish guy like me i mean   this become a dime a dozen um but his   company   look i track i i still have a lot of gps   that i have great relationships with   that refer me patients and i'm very   appreciative of that so i want to just   go back and   circle back to that a little bit but   having said that   last year my number two ex my number two   best referrer   was internet so that means that my   marketing efforts going directly to the   public   is my second best referrer to the   practice so   if you're an orthodontist and you want   to   be in business and you want and   certainly not a sin i think   to make a living um and you feel you   know that you know that's something that   you want to do in this time   um you have to market you know nike   they've said this many times you know   they don't make   they're not they're not a sneaker   company they're a marketing company and   you could be   you know this i mean this is we learned   this back in dental school you could be   the best dentist in the world but if   nobody knows you're around   you're going to be helping people so if   you want to help patients and do the   kind of orthodontics you know that i   want to do   these days it's through it's through   this you know it's it's through   instagram and facebook um and google   adwords and retargeting and all that   kind of stuff   and it's been you know the stuff that   dean's company does   has been wildly successful um you know   and you know people don't want to spend   the money i mean it's an investment i i   probably invest   five percent of my annual revenue   towards marketing   you know it probably should increase   that but you know people say oh you've   got to spend 30 40 000 50 000   on marketing but let me ask you   something howard if i was your financial   planner and you give me fifty thousand   dollars and i gave you back five hundred   thousand dollars   would you be happy or sad yeah i'd be   really happy and if you go on shark tank   the first thing they're gonna ask you is   what is your new customer acquisition   cost  and uh then how much net profit you make   on that and once   you make fifty dollars on a customer   that costs you a hundred dollars to   acquire   you're gone and when i go to a dentist i   say   how much is your new customer um   acquisition guys you're like don't call   them a customer that's really they're   they're a patient oh shut up you know   where that word patient comes from   be patient in the waiting room while you   wait because the doctor doesn't have a   together and he doesn't have any   logistics   and he's running late you i'd   rather be called a customer   than intentionally be patient and have   to wait in the waiting room but if you   don't know   your new customer card and by the way i   want to tell you this this is something   that in your neck of the woods wall   street masters   and um and they got rid of orthodontic   centers of america remember   when uh um lazara did the orthodontic   centers of america   and that was a disaster and um but   anyway but the bottom line is this   um the dentist don't know their   acquisition costs   and wall street does so really smart   dentists and orthodontists will look   over and say   wow this dentist over here selling his   practice and he's got a thousand   patients   and he's only asking two hundred dollars   a piece and my acquisition cost is 250 a   piece   so i'm gonna instead of we're in a town   of five dentists   so instead of letting that old man   retire and be replaced with some   young energetic guy filled with piss and   vinegar ready   to work seven days a week why don't i   just buy that out i can buy it cheaper   than my marketing   and then he'll third person endorse me   and say i could have sold this to   anybody but i wanted dr good to have it   exactly what i   i bought a little satellite office the   guy in this office dr mills wonderful   guy we merged and   it was a match made in heaven mergers   and acquisitions are the way to go   but if you don't know your um   acquisition cost so and by the way   orthodontist   um they um spend more money in marketing   they always have because they're just   smarter   and they they're getting a case for 65.   and dennis like yeah but they're getting   you know a 6 500   case yeah they'll realize that revenue   in just 24 months   but you get the same amount of money it   just   just materialized over five years uh   that's the other reason   i don't think general dennis should do   ortho just because i'd rather go get the   root canal billion crown   2500 today i i get 2 500   right now so for a six for so if i do   three of those in one day that's 7 500   and i don't have to date you for two   years um but um   so the bottom line is um um you know oh   so my final question   i i know um you gotta go you're a busy   man um   dentists fail routinely because they get   out of school and they just treat the   one tooth   and it takes them five or ten years to   get to the quadrant and then   maybe if you're lucky they'll get to   half side and i'll say well why don't   you numb up the whole mouth and do it   all at once oh you could never do that   and they practice next door an oral   surgeon   who numbs up all four quadrants and   pulls all four wisdom teeth eight times   a day   five days a week for 40 years um and   they they just don't know   how to present and you're an   orthodontist   some people say that orthodontists are   like endodontists like i know i got a   toothache i called you you didn't call   me   can you fix it i know my teeth look like   i can eat corn on the cob through a   chain-link fence i'm not   i'm not stupid can you straighten them   do you   consider orthodontists like endodontists   where you don't have to sell anything   and you don't know how to sell and you   don't have any treatment plan   presentation skills   because your customer already knows   they're going to buy or not or do you   see   amongst the 10 800 orthodontists that i   mail orthotown to   every month do they need to   get good on treatment plan presentation   or is it a gimme   no i don't think it's a gimmick at all i   mean look good communication   a good doctor-patient relationship   starts with good communication   so i mean the list of reasons why   you should learn how to talk to your   patients and listen to your patients   goes   on and on and on not you know not   least of which is that there tends to be   less conflict you know less lawsuits all   that kind of stuff i mean   but having said that look howard it's   i'm going to answer the question in a   second but first of all it's not that   it's not that hard   and it's just golden rule i don't know   why people forget the golden rule   because people   you have people that want to sort of   crank it out dentistry or crank it out   orthodontics   but then they go to the hotel and   they're complaining about every little   thing i mean if you expect good service   i think   you know as a customer i think you   should be able to deliver good service   as a provider   so i think that communication skills are   the most   maybe the most important thing um maybe   after a while you know you kind of get   good with your hands you know right you   know how you know how to do a dentistry   you probably don't sweat the cases   anymore but   what you sweat is the other stuff the   the unhappy patients you know the the   miscommunications the misunderstandings   the more you can minimize that uh the   happier patience you're gonna have the   better reviews you're going to get   so having said that no i don't think   ortho sells itself in westchester county   there's over 200 orthodontists   you know so right around me there's   there's probably 15.   so if my case presentation and   you know if you can call it selling you   can call it everyone i mean i think i   look at it more as communication and   collaboration but   my case presentation skills aren't good   um there's a million other   really good orthodontists in my area i   happen to say i'm very fortunate that   got a bunch of nice nice practitioners   who do good work   but having said that it makes the   competition you know even greater so   i have to be on my game and i have to   make sure that i'm explaining just the   way i'm talking to you   is the way i talk to my patients so i   think that it is imperative   um for you to not assume that people are   just going to walk in   and you open up their wallets and say   you know fix my teeth doc   don't you think well if you open up your   wallet that that's how you meet your   wife   i mean uh you you know you know she's   alive until you hear me raw   um hey i just want to tell you that um   last month august 4th was a 30-year   anniversary of my lecture my first   lecture i gave in new york city   grew in wichita kansas went to creighton   omaha dental school and i always wanted   to see the big apple   and me starting to lecture the driving   point of that   is me and my uh buddy from uh dental   school craig sykin who's in   albuquerque we just wanted to go see new   york city and it was kind of   this crazy deal that i was gonna go   lecture   and uh my god like i'll never forget and   everybody told me   well don't go to new york those are the   those are the meanest rudest shrewdest   people you should go to some hillbilly   town in the middle of kansas or nebraska   or texas   and now we want to go to new york and it   was like 20 guys who would have been as   old as us   and i was like 27 and didn't know   oh my god they were coaching me all   through the lecture they were giving me   tips on my presentation   it was the most fun i ever had 30 years   ago   august 4 1999 to show you had done my   guys when i got to the airport   i got in the taxi and the guy likes me   go where are we going i said to the   sheridan   and he looked back at me goes ah there's   a couple hundred sheridans i'm like   there is   and then i had to go find a pay phone   with a quarter and a dime   to find out which damn shared and it was   what he was trying to tell but   hey man barry j glazer dmd   thank you for all that you've done for   orthotown thank you for   all that you do for dentistry and   orthodontics it was just an honor for   you to come on the show today thank you   so much   it's been a real treat thanks for having   me all right have a great day buddy  
Category: Orthodontics
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