1484 Orthodontist Mike Mew, BDS, MSc on Finding a Cure for Crooked Teeth : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
Dr. Mike Mew lectures and teaches extensively around the world, and is the lead clinician at the London School of Facial Orthotropics. His personal interest is in the growth and development of the face and understanding the factors that influence it. He has put forward the concept of Craniofacial Dystrophy to explain the cause of crooked teeth, sleep apnea, many ENT problems and TMD, suggesting that they are all symptoms of a single underlying problem. He is passionate around raising debate on these issues and working towards a cure for malocclusion, OAS and even Craniofacial Dystrophy. Having engaged with social media, Mike's ideas have gone viral with literally millions of people “Mewing” around the world. It is his aim to use this publicity to find likeminded people within dentistry and other specialties, push for open debate and find effective solutions.
VIDEO - DUwHF #1484 - Mike Mew
AUDIO - DUwHF #1484 - Mike Mew
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**Please excuse any typos as this was digitally transcribed.
It is just a huge honor for me today to be podcast interviewing probably the number one orthodontic disrupter on earth Dr Mike Mew BDS Masters in Science Orthodontics lecturer and lead clinician at the London school of facial orthotropic dr mike mew lectures and teaches extensively around the world his personal interest is in the growth and development of the face and understanding the factors that influence it he has put forward the concept of craniofacial dystrophy to explain the cause of crooked t sleep apnea many ent problems and tmd suggesting that they all are symptoms of a single underlying problem dr mike is focused on advancing the orthotropic concepts to achieve significant morphing of the craniofacial skeleton to improve dental and general health he is reputed to be currently gaining some of the most significant changes in facial form for growing children and non-growing adolescents yet achieved and has to aim to achieve similar changes in non-growing adults he feels that simple public health measures could minimize or eliminate these problems in young children he is passionate about raising debate on the issues and working towards a cure for malocclusion oas and even craniofacial dystrophy having engaged with social media mike's ideas have gone viral which literally means millions of people mewing around the world i love that his name is mew mewing around the world including me and and my homies on dental town it is his aim to use his publicity to find like-minded people within dentistry and other specialties push for open debate and find effective solutions and uh i just want to say that um he's been in the new york times i mean you're the second dentist on the show that's been the new york times Jeanette McLean the world now renowned uh pediatric dentist here in phoenix with silver diamond fluoride she made the new york times uh i once made the Ahwatukee times but i had to pay 300 to have my uh my article published in new york times how two British orthodontists became celebrities to incels the muse a father-son team orthodontist have an unusual theory about the source of crooked teeth one that has earned them a following in some of the darker corners of the internet that's new york times unbelievable then um then there was just another um there's been a couple of other articles um just recently they published one um someone follow up where um scientific American just came out with an article like two or three days ago and i was so excited because i got talked to you today and it was called that why we have so many problems with our teeth so i just want to open up with a selfish question just for me um when i was in dental school one of my instructors and that taught anatomy Bernard Butterworth gave me this book called the naked eight by despond Morris and he said how are every dentist should get into anthropology because they're not going to find soft tissue liver and pancreas and organs but they're going to find teeth and he goes anthropology most of their evidence is teeth and then the question is well how come all these old skeletons and skulls and Neanderthals how come they didn't have malocclusions and a lot of the anthropologists are saying that all these male occlusions is just popped up in the last couple centuries is that true or false totally true i mean you know you read the anthropological textbooks you talk to anthropologists and there's no question that malocclusion is a modern disease of civilization there's no quality evidence that disagrees with that so some people say and I’m sorry if this is uh to uh trigger some of the uh um people but they say that um breastfeeding you know you have this massive breast in your face while you're fighting and talking but once the baby shows a little difficulty she mom stops doing it and gives them a bottle that has you know a flow that's like 10 times easier to suck out and that these kids probably would have been laying around in caves chewing ligaments off the wall you know whatever a wildebeest or something and now you're giving him mush in a jar so they got a sippy cup just flowing so that there's no forces on the face while this child's eating is that the crux of it to use it or lose it um is it yeah in a way i mean i think breast the lack of breastfeeding is most likely a factor but i don't think in the general overall facial skeleton in the cranial you know the major structure of the face i don't think breastfeeding is as major an impact as the change in diet and in the change in oral posture of course breastfeeding is related to the change in all posture but things have changed things have changed massively you know if you if you see take someone who walks out the African Serengeti the Brazilian rainforest or the Australian outback you know these guys stand up beautifully straight they've got fantastic physical and facial form all 32 teeth including wisdom teeth in pretty good alignment you know near perfect alignment usually and it's not just them it's their whole family it's basically everyone within these tribal groups bar you know the small percentage of people who have got um accidents traumas you know if you get bitten by a saber-toothed tiger you know it's an accident it's unfortunate it happens to get killed by a canine tooth of a saber-toothed tiger what better way with her to go that's how i want to die by a canine there's a distinct lack of them around these days but you've had this change you know society's changed we're not living in the same manner that we evolved to live in now that's the basis of evolutionary medicine and a lot of the chronic diseases of modern society can be related to how we've changed our lifestyle so um if there was uh you know um these podcast things this is a young thing I’m 58 i mean most podcasts lists are under 30. probably a quarter of the people listen to you are in dental school and the rest are under 30. say there was a um say there was a young lady in dental school and she was gonna say well I’m gonna have a baby and I’m not gonna do what we did in the last two centuries and I’m gonna have a totally natural uh Neanderthal uh baby with a perfect form um what do you think she could pull it off or is there so many variables and um that it wouldn't work it's hard work i mean the problem i often ask the question i say are you normal so i ask people this question and most people respond well i think I’m normal i know I’m not so uh yeah I’ll be your first descendant clothes washing not i do think it's available you know we we launched a campaign a while ago called prevent crooked teeth and I’d really encourage everyone to go and sign the petition on prevent crooked teeth and the idea of this is to try to minimize or even eliminate malocclusion before it's got going you know prevention has got to be the key and then we need to look at the various things that you could do um breastfeeding clearly is a good start and prolonging breastfeeding would be a good idea but i don't know if you're familiar with the concept of baby lead weaning and this is there's i think in the states here with a slightly different definition of weaning i think you refer to this as when you stop breastfeeding whereas the rest of the world tries to think of defines weaning as when you start the introduction of hard food so baby lead weaning about the introduction of hard food or foods going from breastfeeding to food now there was a distinct lack of blenders a hundred thousand years ago ten thousand years ago so you couldn't blend the food you could probably pre-chew it a little bit but i think that you know the novelty of that would wear thin relatively quickly so kids would have to go from breastfeeding to hard food fairly quickly and of course breastfeeding is going to last for well let's say two years i mean some societies probably went longer than that but you've got this period of time when a child is gaining as much nutrition as they need as much sustenance from the breast and they're starting to introduce hard foods and this would be at times very hard food and you would then get accustomed to that very hard food and then you've changed your habits you've changed your likes or dislikes and you set out on a very different path from someone who starts with mushy food you know how we're taught that infants suckle adults swallow and this transition should occur progressively over that two-year period but we're almost asking babies to start far too early before they would normally engage in a proper swallow and giving them food that doesn't require them to have a proper swallow you know i i once when i was before i went a bit more paleo with my um diet i remember suckling a big mac you know it wasn't a pretty sight but i managed to suckle it and there was a demonstration of that you don't actually need to chew most of the food that we eat today yeah and it's just marsh it's just mush and of course you know I’ve got a strong jaw and that strong jaw is related to strong muscles and how do you get strong muscles tough food yeah just use them so in a way simply put if you start your child on tough food that's a very good start now i remember seeing a um a girl whose father was a dentist and he brought his child along to see me and he worked he visited the clinic many years ago many years before and his child came in and she had incredibly good facial development perfectly straight teeth loads of space eight-year-old child and i looked at her and i said that is you know you almost got ancestral development in your face and your teeth i said i said hamish what have you done and he i won't try the Irish accent but he said that from the day he got back from my surgery he had got his daughter to chew gum for one to two hours a day every evening and the effect was profound really very profound so she was just using her jaw you know use it or lose it you know she had gained a strong jaw from using it so i um i was not aware of the prevent crooked teeth.com campaign statement it says for decades crooked teeth have been accepted as just bad luck a genetic inevitability that often requires extractions and fixed braces this is seen almost as a rite of passage for teenagers however there is increasing awareness as such treatment can exacerbate obstructive sleep apnea and tmj disorders leaving people with a lifetime health problem there is substantial evidence that suggests that crooked teeth are the result of poor facial growth and that modern lifestyle choices are playing a major part in preventing and good facial development need to have room for a full set of bad teeth um what is the campaign um what is what are what are we signing um well this is objective to try and raise awareness oh on change.org so you go to prevent crooked teeth but then when you sign the petition it's on change.org exactly so we're just trying to raise a petition to raise in a part to raise awareness because we want to be able to go particularly in countries with socialized health care systems go to the so that means you're a communist say the story that means you're a communist I’m from America and if you uh if you're a socialized the word socialist in the states is often a you know it's a derogatory term well yeah and i just want to say something that um is sad because you know when you're a dentist you're into um you know you start with math applied math is physics applied feminist chemistry applied chemistry's biology applied biology's dentistry and our whole we spent our whole life there then when you switch to um religion and politics the terms aren't scientific and what what you call a socialist we you know other countries so i i think moving forward if if all the political people could just agree on the same terminology yeah so you know what you're talking about interesting watching your election at the moment because the the baggage that comes with your right wing and your left wing it's not quite the same as the baggage that comes with our left wing and right wing so right terms would be very helpful right um yeah it would um um so so change.org is um uh well they say you're never supposed to talk about religion sex politics or violence so let's try to talk about all forum at the same time um change.org make a good facial growth a health priority through education research and driven policy to me you know what my one of my friends fred royal wrote a book called everything is marketing man if i was a young orthodontist well a couple let me step back the fastest growing business model in orthodontics today is when you team up with a pediatrician because a pediatric dentist because if you go to someone like jeanette maclean and a hundred people go in there you know 99 are going to say hey is billy going to need braces when he goes up but then you got to give him a referral they got to make a new appointment go down the street so the fastest growing is when a pediatric dentist and orthodontist gets together but my gosh a young pregnant mom to start advertising your community come to our free seminar in our waiting room and let's talk about how to raise a child who won't even get cavities but won't need braces that that would have to be the most do you have a presentation for them to give well we go and look at are you my youtube channel you know the the orthotropic youtube channel we have a huge volume of information it's you know lectures on various angles of what we're saying and we're adding to it regularly okay so that's the orthotropic orthotropic youtube channel okay and just for uh not me of course i know what the word means but just for everybody that uh what's the difference between orthotropic and orthodontist well orthodontics is about straight teeth so ortho is correct or straight and dantos teeth whereas orthotropic is also correct or straight and tropos comes from the word growth so we're trying to encourage straight growth because people whose faces grow well have straight teeth you know you look at the magazine covers and the people who have the nicest facial structure they tend usually to have straight teeth and i worry so much of what I’m saying is hijacked because when i help someone face to develop well so when i treat someone i tend to make them good looking and that has so much baggage associated with it um but we do and arguably we're getting the best improvements in facial form from our treatment that have yet been achieved if i was going to push out one of your youtube videos because you have my gosh you have 193 000 subscribers if you if you divide that by 10 it'd be 19.3 i only have 14.7 i mean if you times 10 what I’m doing um it's still i mean it's amazing but if i had to push out one video to my homies on that youtube channel um which by the way it explodes the the um the views of it which one would you want i see say the craniofacial dystrophy modern melting faces okay there it is i got it modern melting faces so where do you think uh so um anthropology is interesting so we were on the eastern horn of africa probably you know the whole million years and last 200 000 years we pick up steam um they're saying about a couple hundred thousand what what is it homo erectus had two kids and one went to europe and became a neanderthal the other one stayed in africa and then they met up 70 000 years ago had sex some children about one or two percent of the dna stayed in there and then that guy went over and met a dinosaur and that's um um you know this is pretty much we're actually thinking now that there has been loops in evolution so that they've just found a new um what one finch apparently they think flew across to the galapagos islands mated with a one of the variety that darwin observed and they've started a whole new species of finches so they think you get this intermixing times and they think a lot of intermixing went on with our ancestors so it just it doesn't it breaks up that simple tree idea that we had so but there's a lot of confusion in this area and of course we're going on finding the odd skull or the old bone here or there it's it's it's it's complex well um I’m a hundred percent irish what the hell happened to them they that all modern humanity should have great facial form and straight teeth all of them if you look at the ancestors of all modern all groups everyone all our ancestors you know they look surprisingly similar because particularly compared to how different people are today that interests me greatly yeah i i find it very uh incredibly um interesting so um when did the malocclusion actually start picking up i mean was it in the 1800s or does it go back to seventeen hundreds thousands a slight change in the um late mesolithic period because people started using tools now if you think that before you have a knife you've got to cut everything with your incisors so you've got to do this you know you've got a tough piece of meat and you're going to use your own sizes to cut it now as soon as we had knives that slightly changed the way the modern human dentition was so previously people's front and sizes if you imagine the incisor crossing over like this they would wear the incisors down until they had a slight gap between the incisor so when we talk about a curve of speed you had a reverse curve of speed with an and slight anterior open bite and people would posture their jaw forward to incise the teeth and as soon as you gained a knife you had quite a change in the dental setup and we gained what the modern you know overlapping having an overjet and overbite so that occurs about 10 000 years ago clearly that depends where people started becoming more civilized so they're going away from being hunter gatherers they're picking up more and more tools becoming it more and more settlements and they're progressively where less of this wear is going on and so now we have an overjet and overbite now that continues fairly consistently right up till the end of the medieval period and malocclusion is really rare at this point if you go back so i looked at the work of bugerty thailand thailand who did quite a lot of research in scandinavia with people in cemeteries looking at symmetry material and a thousand years ago everyone who had wisdom teeth had them working in function if that was normal if you had a wisdom tooth it was there and few people didn't have their wisdom teeth it was quite rare not to have your wisdom tooth and teeth were more or less straight in the late medieval period and i think what really got things going was in the industrial revolution so I’m an orthodontist I’m very specialist in what i do but before the industrial revolution most people were subsistence farmers so you worked on a farm how you worked on your own bit of land and you basically ate everything you made so you made everything you age i say now then as we became specialists we became consumers so we started purchasing our food now when you become a consumer you become quite discerning you know i remember being a student and cooking some food that was awful i mean you know had i prevented that food in a restaurant no one would pay for it but I’d cooked it i bought it i didn't want to go out and buy more food so i ate it as you become a purchaser you become discerning and i think that was a large change in our dietary intake and the dietary intake was one of the major probably the most major change you know as i said use it or lose it I’ve got strong muscles so I’ve got a strong jaw so as we smooth from this incredibly tough rough hard diet across to this very soft almost liquid diet you know i could probably get 750 calories in a cup like this you know it's a nice nice cafe latte with some marshmallows some sugar and yet the masticatory effort i would make to consume this would be zero 10 000 years ago if you wanted 750 calories you had some chewing to do and some tough chewing usually particularly you know if you you had a kill great you know you've got fresh meat you've probably got fat you've got all this lovely softer food but you might not get a kill for a while so you're going to dry things out and that that meat is going to be pretty it's going to be like leather by the time you may come to eat it and if life or death depending on whether you eat you're going to eat it and that's going to be a tough chew but that's only half the story because we've had another big change that's gone on you know people have got um we're getting nasal obstructions very very commonly nasal obstructions you know i it's not my area but they're going through the roof how many infants go through their first year of life without gaining a nasal obstruction probably none and i would imagine that frequently these nasal disruptions will go on for more than a day probably one or two days now you have two choices either you drop your tongue off your palate you separate your lips and lower your mandible to breathe or you pack up and die and i was amazed when i saw some work by um oh the father of um sleep apnea name escapes me at the moment um and he did some research showing that the number of children the cop deaths where they had these high narrow palates and narrow jaws that fascinated me anyway everyone that doesn't die they have learnt to lower their mandible they have assumed a posture for um absolute necessity to survive now after one two three events you may never put your tongue fully back on the roof of your mouth you may learn to close your lips but you have probably gained a postural change a lot of people if you look look at a lot my kids they just hang their mouths at them and that is a normal posture they've got now if kids are hanging their mouths open and they've got weak muscles what's going to happen to the face well have you seen someone who's had a stroke yes lengthens particularly on that side and remember a stroke is the seventh cranial nerve the facial nerve that's only the surface muscles i have worked in hospitals i did max facts for a while and I’ve seen people who have had a road traffic accident which has damaged their trigeminal nerve you know the power muscles and the change in facial form is unbelievable you know it's dramatic it's quick and it's very reproducible you know it happens you know those faces drop and so what I’m suggesting is that we've moved from this tough rough hard diet to the soft diet we've gained nasal obstruction that's meant we've lowered our mandible down and the combination of these two things has lengthened the faces as if most of modern humanity has had a mild to major bilateral stroke and if you only have so much face and that face lengthens it will be narrower and it will be shallower less cross-sectional area less space your tongue less space for your teeth and less space for your airway interesting um so um i want to um go to go to our our cousins so we have two first cousins we have chimps and bonibos and we have some distant more distant cousin orangutang and then a very distant cousin uh the gorilla and um i found it interesting where they were talking about um uh so we're just uh uh what do you call it a um oh uh sexual die for dimorphism where the boys and girls boys are bigger than girls for sapien and guerrilla and orangutan but it says bonabose males and and bonabose um all the um apes are a male-dominated society the males are bigger 27 percent more muscle muscle but the bonubos is the only female society and um bone and bose males have long canine teeth whereas females lack canines altogether making the bonus female dominance all more thought provoking which was i mean i mean basically the way they get all the men to do everything is they give them a treat and the treat is always sexual and do you think they lost their canine teeth because of sexual rewards no idea no idea huh well there are there there are stranger men than me who think that is related um but anyway are there are there male occlusions in all of the um and all of our first cousins chimpanzees or distant cousins go way beyond that you could you could say that there's 5 400 species of mammal and in the entire history of the skeletal fans were found on all of them they nearly always have perfectly straight teeth in perfect alignment a perfectly aligned teeth and space for all of their teeth um we have some malocclusions starting in domesticated cats and dogs and feral foxes and which is what you would expect because these are animals lifestyles have changed but as a general rule i remember talking to a vet who said that if you have a certain type of cow you could almost make a sort of denture or only that would fit every single one of the same size of that species because their teeth were so exactly the same and you know that brings into some of the work of harvald where hovhold was um he did two experiments one where he blocked the noses of monkeys and caused malocclusion and one where he simply put an uncomfortable piece of plastic in the roof of the mouth and the um the noni the control animals all had perfect occlusion abso perfect and all of the controls sorry all of the experimental animals had severe skeletal and dental malocclusion just from placing an uncomfortable piece of plastic on the roof of the mouth no more and and and what do you think about that well i mean that shows what if the tongue is not on the roof of the mouth what it's going to do to growth pattern you know the tongue is one of the important organs in developing the facial structure it it should help grow the facial structure if that's hanging down with the mouth open you're missing an essential part of the normal physiological physiology of growth that is just amazing so um what what could um if you were in um dental kindergarten school when you grew up you wanted to be an orthodontist just like you um she's probably thinking um is this one of those weird theories where if i follow you all my other orthodontic periods are going to think I’m a nut job um how is this being accepted in the orthodontic community because you know science you know we've made a huge progression in science you know it's incredible we were talking about mobile phones earlier on and we've now miniaturized a supercomputer and given it connectivity and this is incredible what we've achieved and we've achieved this through the scientific process however orthodontics i worry has taken taken a wrong turn and gone it's gone towards making teeth straight for people so orthodontics is basically the science of orthodontics could be summed up teeth are crooked we can make them straight and i think when orthodontics started people were hoping to backfill the science afterwards but you've got to a point now that you can't really believe that malocclusion is due to the environment and due to the genes it's kind of be an either or situation and this is the problem because you've got a lot of invested people believing that malocclusion is predominantly a genetic deformity there's no evidence i mean there's almost nothing to suggest that it is and you know i I’m hunting for the truth i i want answers i want you guys i want the truth the whole truth and no dogma and i worry we've got just too much dogma i mean you know how would what were you taught was the cause of crooked teeth in dental school well that that's a long question i just want to make one comment first um you know there's so many uh my friends dentists think that free enterprise is perfect and government is just they can't do anything and i have to remind them that the government invented the internet uh for their nuclear bomb launching uh capabilities so that washington d.c could tell them over at um colorado springs uh norad they invented radios because in world war ii the boats couldn't talk so government um yeah they can't do day-to-day operations very good but they can do the heavy lifting of research and they're they're just good for research but free enterprise um is made up of the same people that are in government so you know unless government was all martians and aliens there they all came from your household and when i was little my mom um believed the marketing on television that the powder milk formula was better than her just you know neanderthal irish uh milk and um so the first three sisters were not bre my two older sisters um and who became nuns and myself were not uh breastfed and then the next four uh were breastfed so um so you know you know if you live in this delusion that free enterprise i mean advertising look at advertising every advertising you see points out their lie like they always um they know their competitors are going to talk about their flaw so they talk about the flaw in a positive light like when they say two scoops of raisins in every box you already know there's no raisins in there uh when they say we have a hundred thousand um mile warranty on our car you already know it sucks i don't ever hear mercedes-benz and lexus talking about their car warranty because my lexus has 175 000 miles on it and it still hasn't even farted yet uh but on my my last car is a gmc and i think it should have came with a full-time mechanic uh handcuffed in the back of the car just to keep me going um so in ortho school i i i gotta love the orthodontist i mean talk about the teamsters union talk about jimmy hoffa the American association of orthodontists kept the curriculum out completely so the you know our whole ortho education umkc was on like craniofacial both in development i mean it never got to anything applied and then when you say well can we do like a rapid palatal expander and they go well if you want to learn that you should go to ortho school and I’d say well if i go ask the endodontist about a root canal he doesn't say go to endo school if i go up to oral surgery and ask charlie white or brett ferguson will you help me pull a tooth he doesn't say go to oral surgery school but the orthodontist i mean my god they are uh they they're uh they're all based out of um st louis is the American association ortho the international association the intergalactical association uh you know and uh they um they they're they stay together and and they're under tremendous so to answer your question i learned nothing in school about that and the two orthodontists who taught us board-certified richard litt um went out there with his force institute he was the chairman of ortho ucsf and then uh when later on spent a decade at uh teaching at university of troy but the minute he started teaching general dennis how to do ortho completely black bold uh from the union never published treated like a scumbag and the other one was right in my backyard harry green oh yeah and harry green oh my gosh he started teaching low-life generals scumbags like me ortho and he was just written off so the or so if all the other specialties did that we would know nothing about endo perio pedo we would know nothing but but now they're under it's kind of funny because the enemy of your enemies your friend now that you have the smile direct club going directly to the consumer i think the orthodontist are gonna have to say oh low life general dentist how are you doing because now uh there's a greater enemy and now they're uh um so so the orthodontist in fact if i was a young kid and i was looking at the 12 specialties i guarantee you orthodontics is going to be the most disruptive because I’ve seen it and lecturing in south africa vietnam cambodia i mean i couldn't believe it like we me and the boys were at like a restaurant in cambodia and little 16 year old girls with just beautiful perfect teeth that was the waitress is wearing invisalign and I’m like well how much was that and there it was 1 000 u.s and i said well how much do you make an hour in u.s and i mean i mean the way i did the the math on a bar napkin she was paying about a third of her annual wages to get clear aligner so and then when you look at the goal of the species the only the main goal of a species is to survive long enough to reproduce and replace yourself so the the urge to look as pretty as a peacock to mesmerize a mate is so strong um and um and they just want those straight teeth i mean who cares if they blow out the curvy speed the curve of wilson and then you have lower back we're making people's teeth straight but by definition if you need to wear a retainer you are holding your teeth out of the balance zone aren't you yes and i think the um retainer is harder than the straightening the teeth originally yeah but if you're holding teeth out the balance zone you're holding you know you've got we know you know the teeth sit in this balance zone between the lip and the cheeks and then the tongue on the inside that balance zone determines where the bone the periodontal and the teeth are going to be now we can hold the teeth with retainers out the balance zone but can we hold the bone and the periodontal permanently out of the balancer because the evidence is suggesting no we can't you know orthodontics is a relatively new speciality and people have not been wearing retainers for that long but i thought about this decade ago and I’ve been waiting i was waiting for a periodontist and an endodontist to contact me the endodontist because of the shortening of the roots but i met a periodontist a while ago from university of penn and she said that they're getting a lot of these cases in the sort of late 40s early 50s people wearing their retainers for decades they get a little bit of gum disease and it runs through the mouth like wildfire because all of the buccal teeth have got fenestrations and dehiscence and these people are then left with very very poor bone levels because the bone is not going to exist in except if it's in the balance zone so even after you lose your teeth you've lost your balance that is that is uh that is um very very profound it is profound and um if you're a dentist so if you're a dentist watching this and you've got patients with retainers and you're encouraging them where to retainers or you're replacing the retainers you know you you've got at least give them that knowledge that what's happening remember how there's a whole speciality go and see the um association of applied my functional sciences the aams this is a group of people who are myofunctional therapists they are teaching you or teaching individuals to change this balance zone now i think you know of all the things going on we've got a problem we've got the solution and we're not even telling people that this solution is exists okay but i just i just want to um i just want to say for the record to the young kids in school you go tell an orthodontist that you're reading myofunctional anything he immediately is going to think you're a nut job am i right or wrong it was a bad business model isn't it trying to teach kids to change who makes money a dietitian or a liposuction because one drives a ferrari and the other drives a bicycle so you're calling it the a o m t a a m s a a m s the academy of m wide my functional sciences go and have a look at their website i mean they're getting big hit speakers in they're getting some of the most published signed um orthodontists in the world lecturing you know they've got um you know they have big conferences and yet it seems you know when are we going to start you know medicine is about treating the causes of a problem that's the idea with medicine it's not about fixing it because i said crooked teeth make them straight medicines about why are the teeth crooked what can we do rather than just having orthodontics forever because you know what's the difference between a retainer and an invisalign appliance you know they look pretty similar to me you know we could say that's orthodontics forever well that's not really that's not following these rules of medicine find the cause find the cause treat the cause that's what we've got to go back to and so my my big thing has been we need a debate on the etiology of malocclusion so if you you google mike mew black swan i i start a um challenge to the british orthodontists saying look we need a debate on the etiology you know i don't know if you know this but it's well acknowledged within orthodontics that they only really know the idea the cause of malocclusion in five percent or less cases by the time you've got rid of all the syndromes and the diseases and the traumas you're left with a lot of thumb suckers and you're left with a few tongue thrusters and after that they've got no idea no idea so if you have a child and you take your child to see the orthodontist they will probably almost certainly have no idea why that problem occurred so all I’m asking for is the scientific process I’m saying why can't you know scientific process has bought us these phones it's brought us so much why can't we do this in in orthodontics what's important and you and well first of all i mean on this very show I’ve asked some of the biggest names of orthodontics i said um do you agree with anything out of the myofunctional camp they say no and i say well i mean is one percent of it on target and they say no howard I’ve got a challenge for you get me a face-to-face conversation with any notable orthodontist okay me I’m gonna go me uh you me and two or I’ll go too i i don't wanna uh but anyway so yeah I’ll I’ll set this up set it up I’m happy i just want we can what's the opposite of myofunctional or orthodontic myofunctional debate what would you call this well i would just say um you know i I’m i could talk on any course object in orthodontics anything you know um we can look at my foot we can talk about posture we can about function but also basically we can ask why are teeth crooked and what are we doing about it you know why can't we have the scientific process and orthodontics why does everyone run away whenever i ask difficult questions yeah and that's that's another thing in this political debate that's afraid when you're protecting your business because you don't want to engage in science right and that that's what we're seeing here in this election too i mean if you tried to debate it goes violent in like eight seconds like dude you can't even you can't even have a conversation without using profanity and getting violent i mean you know if your idea is so great that you have to kill people to implement it uh you're the problem it's no one else you're the problem and and and and then another thing um I’ve seen um people um you know someone will ask a really legitimate question about a global warming and if you just ask the question they go what are you a flat earther it's like oh I’m sorry and then they always say well 97 of all the scientists agree well yeah 97 of all the editorial board of the wall street journal are not marxist economists i mean it's called group think you can't you know they're not going to hire a bunch of people that don't believe in them so the orthodontic community obviously would be old school and now they're they're waking up to the constant constant criticism i get is you've got no evidence and in that referring to the treatment type that I’m trying to develop and yes we don't have any evidence having some doors open in the ivory tower would help greatly for us to compile evidence because it's really quite difficult to do on your own but I’m not claiming the system i use and developing is fantastic i don't claim it at all it's i state it's a terrible system better in my opinion than the alternatives but I’m not trying to promote it you know i do this system called orthotropic I’m not claiming we're there because I’ve got to change children I’ve got to get them to learn to keep their mouth closed I’ve got them to get them to stand up straight you know that stand up straight shut your mouth not a new idea but it's not that easy to change people what I’m calling for is debate on the etiology let's start with why are teeth crooked because if you don't know that you don't really understand your subject and it's a good place to start okay my my homies right now they're uh these are hour-long shows they're either uh commuting to work or some poor bastard on a treadmill and uh you know just uh i feel sorry for that guy the most but um your new york times article how two british orthodontists that's your you and your father became celebrities to end cells the muse a father 17 orthodox have an unusual theory about the source of crooked teeth one that has earned them a following in some of the darker corners of the internet so for my homie who can't read that while he's driving um why did the largest media company in the united states the new york times why did they want to know more about how did you make the new york times and what is the just of your article um well it's this so i gave clearly I’ll put some lectures up on youtube and i didn't kind of you sometimes when you don't think about the unintended consequences of what you're saying but i was talking about how to correct malocclusion to correct malocclusion by gaining an upswing in facial form so what I’m saying is that due to predominantly uh lack of tough food and poor aura posture we're gaining a downswing in facial form and this is endemic you know you can't see you can't see with the wood for the trees when you understand what i mean by downswing in facial form you will see it everywhere so i talk about how i work towards gaining an upswing in facial form and you know i i didn't imagine that these young sort of 16 to 30 year olds would take me literally and try and implement the methods i was recommending my comment to them is you'd be crazy to try it is not easy however in a way you'd be crazy not to try because why not you know we're talking we're not just talking about making your face look better we're improving your health in many respects and i i then gained a few i got emails you know those days i could i could answer the emails that i was sent you know the today i get approximately 100 emails a day you know it's it's it's crazy and how many of those do you answer yourself no so i am my team so um oh so your team does my no my team will just filters through them to try and find actual patients who want treatment okay and it's actually you know please if you'll be anyone listening there please stop sending me these mails we can't answer all these questions and I’m realizing this well well before i had too many mails i realized that it was easier to respond to a mail with a video so get a couple of questions together and make a video about it so i started doing this i started making a few videos telling people what i was doing and what i thought they could do to try and improve their situation and what i was telling my patients so basically i kind of um hacked my functional therapy taking the the best bits out of it and come up with these concepts and the concepts were christened by someone somewhere as mewing and then people start posting photographs and i am blown away by these photographs i mean I’m seeing crazy changes i mean you're seeing kids that look like they were slapped around the face with a wet fish become model material and they've never met me they've done this all themselves and it's cost them nothing and you think about the improvement in their general health their airway their body posture you know these guys have made significant gains and of course this then snowballs this whole movement i guess it's becoming a movement because you know i remember seeing an article written um in vice and the last sentence was and I’m sure as far as this craze arrived it will disappear however that's not what's happening because you've got a lot of people who are making significant gains and even the ones that aren't showing their facial photographs they're making health gains i mean a lot of those males coming through to me are people that just say thank you no more they say either they may make health gains or they understand what their problem was or is and for a lot of people that's important but you know it it i guess i I’ve helped a lot of people improve their general health and of course look more attractive but in a way howard I’ve always thought that attractiveness and good health are two sides of the same coin because we're hardwired to be attracted to healthy people and attractive what is attractiveness it is our representation it's your display you know your cv display on your face that you're got good genes you know I’ve got great genes because i grew a great face or at least i know how to grow a great face um and yeah so i gained this following online and that is newsworthy and i think that's what the new york times picked up on i don't think the new york times was ever going to go as far as say that we were a concrete alternative to orthodontics and so they took an interesting angle on it it was interesting to see i think it's a slight a slight lost opportunity to ask for debate to say look you know i i don't claim to have all the answers but I’m asking the right questions we need engagement and that's what we're not getting in the orthodontic community which is not getting engagement no who as i said you try and find me any orthodontist of note who's willing to engage in a conference an open conversation on any subject with an orthodontics well is there any is there any um favorite adversaries you have i mean i i um well I’ll tell you what I’ll do these um um i um have a thread on dental town it's called the greatest orthodontic podcast hits and I’ve done two pages of them um are you very familiar with um many American uh orthodontist or any um but anyway um is is there one that you would like to debate the most i mean I’m sure i can get i mean british orthodontist i would say kevin o'brien oh yeah kevin o'brien um just have an open discussion I’ve challenged him so many times and what is he is you know he's not interested but you know anyone anyone you know anyone any orthodontist from anywhere in the world I’ll have a debate you know that's how science moves forwards it doesn't move forward when the doors are closed and no one's communicating and I’m not here to take people down i just want answers i want the goddamn truth you know I’ve you know what i do doesn't make a great deal of money i struggle you know I’ve lost money over the 10 years in a net effect but I’m getting better and better at what i do but we've got to you know this is people's health we're talking about here you know we're doctors we're supposed to be helping people and if I’ve got concerns i my worry is that orthodontics can sometimes cause a downswing in facial form it's implicit sometimes in sleep apnea we don't know the full extent of this but we need to really engage and discuss these and you know i i was fascinated the American orthodontic association had this event in marco island where they discussed um the question of sleep apnea and orthodontics none of the people that i know who are raising these issues were given any air time oh right you know the the results the the the the statement was written up before the end of the event it it you know this this type of situation cannot go on because the longer you put it off the more trouble there will be when it eventually happens and yeah i mean I’m widely hated amongst the orthodontic community my name is the byword for poor science lack of evidence all of the things that i would accuse the people accusing me of doing is accused to me and as i said i just want the truth i want to know what's going on and I’m not going to stop till i get the truth well nice um um yeah i mean some of the greatest minds in in history were not accepted uh and like say if again if you um if if you have an argument have an argument but when you what is it called a straw man where if if i say um something and your only response is oh well he's just short fat and bald uh he's and he's irish i mean what do you expect from my that's not an argument that's what you're doing is you're you're raising bran you're saying there's two scoops of raisins in every box because you don't have any raisins i mean and and when um people ask a great question and you um your reply is that you're a flat earther i mean they have nothing and and what and you know what I’ve noticed in my entire life whether it was studying economics or dentistry or whatever the greatest teacher there truly is no stupid question and they're really most motivated by your passion and i mean I’ve I’ve asked teachers so many times to go you know what hold that to the end of class because this could go an hour and you're like damn you just gave your hour lecture and now you're just getting it on for another hour i mean they love their material so if you and and that's and and that's what's so weird about I’ll give you I’ll give you the first clue so my mother groomed my tool to sister to become nuns straight out of school and she grew me to be the first catholic pope i mean my mom told me she goes howie you're so smart you could be the first caliber and I’m like i was all on board because it's your mom and everything but i remember that my the the the death of that journey was in the seventh grade or the uh somewhere at the end of grammar school st patrick's or uh in high school and bishop carroll and i asked um i asked sister giovanni i said um i had just read this book and it had a uh the planet earth and it was like the shape of a grenade and it called the population explosion and one part of this book was saying that you know the the smart um liberal countries like yours that had smaller families and birth control they had a median higher income you know twice of that but in all the catholic countries uh from brazil central south America the five and a half kids um you know was that basically the nutshell was if you're growing your population at five percent but you're growing your economy at three percent you're growing poverty and even mao de sung saw this where the the chinese miracle was to just stop the population growth one child per family until the economy caught up with the people and then they built this amazing deal and i asked her about that i said well isn't the pope's policy on birth control causing poverty and she slapped me in the face and i i mean she was like my idol i loved her i i that was my serious question and it was met with a handprint on my face so i went back to the locker and um went out the window yeah and my my friend said uh it looks like there's a handprint on your face and i told him the question i asked and he said well you can't ask that to a nut you can't ask that question no and i said well if you can't ask them a question then they don't have anything to stand on you have to engage flat earthers and i see everyone do it with their grandchildren but that but why can't they do it with their colleagues why do they have to turn violent and crazy uh when it's a colleague as opposed to a child yeah but but it kill it killed it killed my faith it killed my faith in everything that she said afterwards i said well she's she just can enforce this with violence she can't talk it out so so what do you have any orthodontist colleagues in all the uk or do they all pretty much have written you off for questioning well you know holy grail i haven't cultivated a lot of friends within the orthodontic fraternity I’ve got a few and they all well i mean that when i talk to them they're all going mike you're right you're right you're right but I’ve got a learning to live I’m earning to make you know i you know i can't use your method it i I’m starting to turn the tide now and I’m getting systems that actually make money but till this point it's been a lost leader more or less doing what i do so yeah which is the same problem the pediatric dentists are having with silver diamine fluoride i mean if they do a pulpotomy in a chrome still crown they get a bill out hundreds of dollars but if they just paint some silver diamine fluoride on there they get like 12 bucks and if you got you know if you got 2 000 if you got rent mortgage equipment build that computer insurance malpractice all the stuff i mean my pediatric friends tell me like are you out of your mind i would go bankrupt if i did the silver diamine fluoride thing yeah what more do i say on that you know yeah and it goes down what more is that you should marry smarter you should marry wealthy people when i when i say when i tell you an American worth a hundred million dollars what's the first thing comes your mind is it a boy girl young old what is it a hundred million see their husbands built this company their whole life then died of heart disease and then she sold the company then she puts in a bond fund almost everyone in America worth a hundred million dollars is an 80 year old widow that's who you should marry you should marry her while you're in dental school i mean come on what's she gonna live five years ten years max and then you got a hundred million dollars and can do silver diamine fluoride and myofunctional appliances and you know you only have to sign up for insurance yeah by the way if you're listening to this and you're 80 years old and you're worth 100 million my email is howard at dental town but anyway um yeah so so um these things i i believe i believe all these changes take place over generations i mean they they don't change generations you see my my father has been a great disrupter he's not always the most politically savvy of people and i think he was too early in his attempts to gain change and of course he was a little bit you know he really thought naively that when he started saying to people oh what about this and what about that they'd they'd say oh but of course you're right yeah we're going to do that and you know there we go lessons are learnt but my grandfather put the seeds of ideas into him you know my father grandfather was doing some orthodontics and that changed my father's viewpoint but in a way i am the third generation orthodontist so these are generational changes and this will change in my lifetime there's no doubt it will change in my lifetime because whereas previously people didn't know about um um other methods now just google something on the youtube you know google something you'll find out the people are becoming knowledgeable and they care about their health okay um one of the things in your in your um in the new york times which i thought was a crazy word to use says how two british orthodontists became celebrities to in cells most people everyone i said that article didn't even know what an incel is I’ve needed a lie to begin with apparently an insult is an incel um involuntary celibate so these are these young boys who don't look so great can't find a girlfriend and they want to look better so and they go on she never knew my oldest sister was an incel my god I’m gonna let her know today mary sister anne of yahweh did you know you're an involved no she's a voluntary celibate so she's probably changed um but these these these kids I’m to be honest i don't think there were many in cells but clearly the new york times wanted to make an interesting i think they arrived here and with our clinic with an angle when i when i reflect on what billy was saying or asking he didn't ask ask that many questions he already had what he wanted to say and that was the article he put out but that's what newspapers do isn't it they saw magazines if it bleeds they want to find a good angle that is interesting that they can sell some magazines yeah so let's get back to the uh the the young kid she's uh she's in dental kindergarten school her the first thing she might think about is um you know back to the money um a specialist in America uh in dentistry earns about 300 000 a year and a general dentist is uh um you know under 200. so she's already thinking about especially and i think that's a trend line i think there's way too much knowledge you can't master orthodontics endodontics pediatric dentistry and place implants this is there's the united states has 40 000 monthly health periodicals mailed out monthly you can't read 40 000 health journals i always make the example i got a friend who does an optometry for glasses another one who's an ophthalmologist md and another guy who only does retinas retina work if you have glaucoma i mean there's there's too much to know at all so the trend line and i recommend it is to specialize so my question to you is out of 12 specialties recognized by the American dental association would you recommend that a kid go into orthodontics no no no no don't don't consider it because when when when when there's when there's when there's a change there's a um a large change you know a disruptive change in a society it is not good for your business model you know you can't update this quickly the the business model i mean how would i you know maybe i put down what I’m doing but what we're doing is we're changing facial structure so I’m not trying to straighten teeth I’m trying to change the physical structure of people's faces either as they grow and I’m starting to get quite good at doing it after people have grown now everyone wants straight teeth of course because they've got crooked teeth and they know they can be aligned but everyone will want well i would imagine that when people realize that we can change facial form and that's related to sleep apnea forward head posture jaw joint issues as well as crooked teeth then i think we're gonna get a movement of people wanting better faces and they're you know that brings dentistry you think where it's positioning dentistry dentistry at the moment is largely about teeth it's it's not really medicine it's not really being a a medical doctor and yet if we start looking at how we can change facial structure we're bringing we're opening dentistry up this is a birth of a huge area of dentistry so i wouldn't recommend people do orthodontics but i would recommend people stand on that you know i would say go and learn what I’m doing you know be there be an early adopter get in this early because this is a subject that will just grow and it will grow there is going to be a never-ending demand of people who want their facial structure to improve how much you can improve it well let's just watch watch this space there's a lot of interesting developments going out there from you know this surgically existed or tad based no screw based expansion sme mse to work on you know tricks to improve body posture and breathing you know there's a whole you know infantile science starting to grow here so i would say if you're thinking of orthodontics don't go and learn orthotropic it is the new science it is growing it will take over because it's based on the facts and however hard you try to i will avoid that comment eddie however hard you try to make something look good it can't look good if you don't have the basic facts underneath okay i want to tell you i I’m just going to throw two things out there and see what you what it makes you think about um again the kids in dental school these are the questions they asked me at howard downtown.com on dentaltown uh comments into the YouTube um they say um they're the most confused about tmd uh the causes of it all this stuff how come they come out of school and they know endo perio pediatric but why I’ll explain your joint problems right so as i describe to you the faces are getting longer as faces get longer your tongue is moving closer and closer into your pharynx okay so there comes a point so where our ancestors about 10 000 years ago we're here by the late medieval period where as we hit the indus revolution we're down swinging more and more and more there then comes a point where you've got to do something you're running out of space for your tongue you still want to breathe so you come up with a couple of habits to have a comfortable tongue posture and so you can still breathe you can still have your tongue you can still function so the most common thing people do is this tongue evenly between the teeth all the way around that'll give you a class one malocclusion you could do this very popular with caucasians that's going to give you a class two you could drop your tongue in your mandible hold it forward that'll give you a class three very popular in the east of the world or you could push your jaw to forward very popular in africa giving you an anterior open bite so these tendencies that are read as genetic because people aren't looking at the real causes um they're just tendencies and people pick up but the most common thing people are doing across the board is resting with their tongue slightly between their teeth now if you rest with your tongue slightly between your teeth all of the time then you're basically holding your jaw open a little bit it's like holding a door slightly open all the time and let's imagine that you've got a maintenance man in your clinic that comes around regularly and he notices there's a gap in the hinge so he fills it up with plastic wood now it fits perfectly it fits absolutely perfectly to where the door is or the analogy with the your jaw joint your jaw joint is now perfectly set up for where you rest now when you bite together the jaw joint's in the wrong place it's not set up to take stress in that position there's no space for the disc so the disc is going to pop forwards and it's never going to get better because you have you you'll continue to have the same posture so all the time the body is going well hang around this is the right place to have the jaw joint what's the problem and then because your tongue's not on the roof of the mouth is not acting as the natural antagonist for your jaw closing muscles so if you take every muscle in your body so I’ve got my biceps and my triceps they're working away very nicely here this muscle and this muscle are controlling this movement and i can do this and i can do this and I’ll do all of these movements and i don't really think about what I’m doing i just want my arm to move and i inform it to move but these muscles are working perfectly as antagonistic pairs now what's the antagonistic muscle for your jaw closes your big powerful muscles here these little ones down here they're pants they're never going to help fight these massive muscles well it's got to be the tongue it's got to be the tongue on the roof of your mouth it's the only muscle i don't know one muscle the far end attachment is unattached so that you can speak and so that we can eat but of course if your tongue is not on the roof of your mouth is not acting as a natural antagonist for your jaw closing muscles so if you anything upsets you you're lying there in the evening and you know a little bit gets stressed your jaw muscles clench a little bit and nothing is going to stop you from clenching it's a little bit like one of those old-fashioned steam engines would have a governor on it and the faster the governor spun the more it would slow the engine down well if you took the governor and you ripped it off and threw it away and then you stoke the engine up with lots of coal and get it faster and faster and faster it's going to go on and on and on until it destroys itself and if your jaw joint is not in the right place is not in the correct organization to take any load and there's no space in the back so the disc has been squashed out and you now you're on the pterygoid ligament and now you're like because nothing's going to stop you the tongue is not there to act as a natural antagonist the natural inhibitor to your clenching so you've not only got something set up wrong you've got complete lack of any system to control the controlling mechanism has gone right so now you go to a dentist and he's going to give you a splint well of course what he's doing is he's reproducing that gap you created with your tongue so now he's changed your occlusal position so it meets and they're great splints are great for about six months but then after that you've now filled the space where the tongue was so often people will rest with their tongue on top opening the vertical dimension at rest more so now you're going to add more material to your splint none of this it's a good fix it's a good temporary solution but you're not really gaining a long-term solution because you're not changing the underlying problem the underlying problem was first they didn't have enough space for their tongue second they didn't have the tongue on the roof of the mouth which was probably a little narrow so uncomfortable to leave the tongue there so they're not what the knack for antagonism but you try if you start to clench anyone there listening to start clenching engage your tongue fully on the roof of the mouth learning what a suction hole is learn the importance of the back third of the tongue get your tongue fully engaged and the clenching will stop instantly so i want to i want to ask you um in the new york um the new york post um october 17th this is on october 20th woman files 10 million lawsuit against dentists after alleged uh bot surgery clarinetist claims she could literally lose face after an alleged botched botch procedure by a manhattan dentist beaujolais cruzali who has performed in orchestras you know about this i know the claimant and i know the defendant martha yep i know more well but then way it weigh in on that case or tell me what's going on well i mean I’m just 10 million dollars got my attention yeah 10 million dollars so you know i worry that someone is people are trying to they realize there's a problem and the guys that came out with agga realizing there's a problem and they're trying to fix this problem but they're trying to fix this in a mechanical way they're not trying to affect the underlying solutions to the problem so they're not trying to affect the sorry the underlying causes of the problem so without affecting the underlying causes of the problem they're trying to expand teeth and push them too far out the bony envelope and you can move the bony envelope if you change posture and function if you don't change posture and function it's immutable it won't change and her teeth i wonder how much i can say well she's lost a lot of roots on her teeth a lot of roots because the teeth have been pushed out the bony housing so that and who pushed him out of the bony housing i mean the this appliance system if you don't if you have a system like this agar and you don't change you don't make an effort to change your physical or posture and function there is a risk of moving teeth out of uh you know losing the roots of the teeth okay we're almost out of time and i gotta i gotta get two more controversies out of the way when i was in dental school they said the um abstractions were from eating and grinding and then i was only out of school about 10 years and the veterinarian said wait a minute where we find these in cows and sheep and i mean I’m sorry the they have fraction was from um brushing back and forth we were sawing uh these ledges into the teeth and then about 10 years out of school the veterinarians say hey we see them in cows and horses and sheep and they don't uh they don't brush their teeth ab fraction if you go to the wikipedia page on ab fractions dental infractions it says right there cause unknown so yeah but wikipedia is wonderful you mean you want to say something on wikipedia you put it up there but if you've got a group like the orthodontists who don't like what you're saying never stays there gets taken down straight away so what is what is an infraction really my area but i don't see many abstractions on ancient skulls and these guys wore their teeth away sometimes i mean I’ve seen cases where they have literally warmed their teeth down till the roots the petite the molars have broken into roots that's a lot of wear and yet not many ab fractions and again this is what i think if you've got a system in balance where your tongue and your chewing muscles are naturally in their antagonistic pairing i don't think you're going to get that stress that we feel is the cause of ab fraction but gab fraction is not really my it's not my area okay and then last um but not least um and you've been such a stain on so long is um orthognathic surgery um you know nobody wants to have one i remember when i saw my first patient had that 1987 on my god his face he swelled up like a basketball now i know it's gotten a lot more conservative of a procedure but um how much of this just rant your thoughts on the uh orthognathic surgery industry in America and the need for it and all that stuff okay well first of all it would be nice if people were told that there's about a 50 10 year relapse i think that's not really highlighted greatly and when i see people who relapse i see some people who relax completely the whole lot goes back you know and you can see the screws and the pins and everything else all heading south down swinging and i see some people who get better now it would make sense because what I’m saying is that you know if you've got good posture you've got good muscles you stand well you've got your tongue on the roof of the mouth if someone suddenly gives you space and the ability to do that and you then do that you'll continue to improve however if you've got a terrible situation like you maybe you've got sleep apnea even somewhat you've been doing this all your life someone gives you surgery and you continue to do this what's gonna happen you're gonna go back to start one go back to go do not collect 200 pounds it's you know you know surgery can be beneficial and i would wish you know i would love to work with some more surgeons looking at sort of minor surgical techniques that we could use with some of the techniques i use to help develop faces with the minimum health risks and then going on to gain better and better results if you gain a virtuous cycle of change so if you improve someone's posture you help them with a muscle function you can get a virtual cycle of change i mean some of the facial outcomes I’ve got with patients are just extreme you know it's incredible they don't look like the same person I’m getting there with adults slowly but you know i that is i think where we've got to go with orthognathic surgery in the future first of all trying to prevent as much orthogonalic surgery because it should be preventable this never happened in our ancestors there is no evidence that this is due to any form of genetic and admixture into mixing these are these are fairy tales you know why do they propagate why do they continue you know but anyway we should be reducing with the prevent crooked teeth the amount of um orthognathic surgery required then when we do orthognathic surgery if we can minimize the surgical element maximize the types of techniques i use and then afterwards if we can really engage people's posture and function then we're making progress then we're using that scientific process to move forwards otherwise um you know it can be helpful you know I’m not here orthodontics is great for lining teeth don't let me suggest it's not and i cannot let a profound historian third generation uh orthodontist um not weigh in on uh dr raymond begg the australian uh orthodontist pioneer who died in 1983. if some young kid said what do you what do you think of beg um okay great i mean beg did some research so beg went down and took a group of aboriginals he actually took each individual tooth separately so it sounded like he had far more material than he really had and he looked at how much where was between the tooth and he found out that there was approximately a premolar in each quadrant so he suggested we should take a premolar out to compensate now there's two problems with this theory first is coracini went and looked at the same material and the only conclusion he could come up with was begg ignored the less the least warm teeth and just selected the most warm teeth so basically he cheated the second point is that yeah they did get somewhere but they got their wear near the end of their life so how would that apply to someone who's 12 or 14 who's got fresh virgin teeth erupted that you would never expect to be worn it doesn't make sense yes they did get wear but that wear would have been you know soon before you died it wouldn't have no effect when your teeth were erupting when they weren't warm all right nice oh my gosh go ahead i want to make i want to make the take-home message all right hear how if you are a dentist and you have any child over the age of four i highly advise you to take a lateral photograph of their face a side photograph of their face every year you're gonna do a checkup you've got cameras just take a photograph hopefully try going a decent distance away and zooming in because to avoid parallax but just take a photograph of every growing child over the age of four that should be mandatory if you've listened to this podcast if you've taken anything away from what I’ve said if you don't do that you you're just ignoring science you are not providing correct health care for the children on your books take those photos every year thank them you're doing a checkup you're checking the teeth take a photo all right if you don't know what you're growing you don't know anything and a um big shout out to one of my uh mentors and idols and a registered member of dental town orthodontist professor kevin o'brien professor of orthodontics director of the healing foundation cleft and cranial facial I’m gonna send him an email after this show and see if him he will uh come on uh the program um i gotta tell you one thing about um people not liking uh to debate some of my very best friends that are dentists and by that i mean they're just alcoholics um they won't come on the show because it just scares the hell out of them i mean public speaking um when you're out there lecturing there's a lot of people that just can't do that and um so guys like us yeah so they're how come but what percent of the dentists that you know would just literally wet their pants if they thought yeah i know so a lot of people seriously genuinely want to talk this doesn't feel like public speaking I’m sitting here looking at my home you know looking at the computer this doesn't feel like public speaking i mean however many people are going to watch this right now it doesn't feel like a public speaking experience I’m not standing in front of an audience of 500 and i have and i love it but i can understand it's not everyone's cup of tea yeah and you also notice when you look at the influence out there um because i started uh dental town in in 99 i mean st patrick's day 99 and so when you looked at the whole lecture circuit back then um the influence have changed because the influencers back in the day they had to have a love of public speaking whereas the influence today you're ten times more profound like look at your youtube channel i mean mike holy gamoli um this video that you're talking about has a hundred and seventy three thousand views oh you couldn't even won over a million yeah the largest football stadium of course when i say football i know you're thinking soccer is yeah do you call it football over there or do you call it soccer football of course it's football yeah that is football but yeah but there but what's the largest uh football soccer stadium in the world doesn't hold a hundred thousand so um the biggest influencers they can sit behind a computer on their iphone and do it and i notice most of the influencers and it's the same thing in the scientific community the guy who's gonna the gal who's gonna write up a paper and all the footnotes and all that kind of stuff they're usually neither a lecturer or an influencer they're usually um somewhere between a geek a nerd and a dentist it's a triangular geek nerd deal so different skill sets different people will ask kevin but hey what i love about you the most is why i named this show dentistry uncensored i don't care if 99 of the orthodontist don't agree with you um if you can't entertain a thought and reject it or accept it i mean i mean it's all about that it's a scientific process and i love it uh when somebody tells me uh something that i didn't know in fact that's what i think is the coolest thing about what I’m doing is I’ve had a monthly column since 1994 and the same fear why people don't want to do that is because what if they're wrong is what i love the most i mean there's people carrying around bad information in their head their whole life and every time i say something that's not right on this podcast or my monthly column on tunnel town someone sends me a letter and says actually that's not correct blah blah and even crazy little stuff the biggest outrage i ever caused was when i said I’m um a four-star general uh pat i could call patton a five-star general and i got like 30 or 40 letters just before internet telling me that he was a four-star general he never made it to five star I’m like okay first of all wow whatever but anyway hey thank you i know you're busier than a one-armed orthodontist and uh to come on the show that's so great and um thank you so much for coming on the show today thank you very much for inviting me and i will look forward to the next time when we have our group discussion with some orthodontists absolutely we're going to do it because um and then the last thing i want to say to orthodontist is if um you've got to talk about this because your patients are going to ask questions and i get in a lot of trouble where I’ll post when dentists make the news you know some dennis has a hidden camera in his bathroom and all and i post that and all these people saying why are you ruining dentistry and i say two reasons number one if one dentist put a hidden camera in his bathroom I’m sure on a planet with two million people one other dentist thinks it's a good idea and needs to see that this is not a good idea number two some people have broken brains i mean they don't have brain health so as a pure sociopath might not think it's a problem but number three your patients are gonna come in and when they say hey you don't have a camera hidden in your bathroom do you i don't want you to be not even know what the hell they're talking about i mean if it's in the newspaper i think little old tiny howie can post it on his 12 followers you know i mean i mean i can't believe that i get flack for posting something that was in the new york times or like are you me i mean come on so um thanks for being uh intellectually cerebral in a world that wants to shut everyone up and not be transparent um big fan and I’ll be mewing over this podcast all day howard pleasure it was a pleasure thank you so much
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