Jay is a self-made, first-generation millionaire from a middle-class American family. He’s owned businesses since the age of 18 and his life’s work the past 35 years has been dedicated to helping people grow and reach towards their God-given potential. He’s the founder and CEO of the Scheduling Institute, which is a consulting firm that’s helping dentists turn their practices into thriving businesses that can be sold for maximum value or kept for a lifetime of revenue.
VIDEO - DUwHF #1504 - Jay Geier
AUDIO - DUwHF #1504 - Jay Geier
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It is just a huge huge honor to bring back to the show i almost never bring anyone back on the second time i mean we're coming up on 1500 shows but Jay Geier blew it out of the sky last time uh gosh with his last uh YouTube video i think he had 2 000 views just on YouTube Jay Geier founder and CEO of the scheduling institute is a self-made first generation millionaire from a middle class American family he's owned businesses since the age 18 and his life's work the past 35 years has been dedicated to helping people grow and reach towards their God-given potential he's the founder and CEO of the scheduling institute which is a consulting firm that helps dentists turn their practices into thriving businesses that can be sold for maximum value are kept for a lifetime of revenue the scheduling ins serves Dennis and their teams through a few different divisions the leadership in suit coaching for doctors training for team members and content subscriptions is for scheduling supe has been voted the number one consultant and advisor in dental county choice awards the past 11 consecutive years unbelievable orthodontists have voted them number one for six years jay's team trained my today's dental practice in 2008 on the five-star phone training program which is si's flagship program that launched them into dentistry as the most effective advisor to private practice i sort of say right okay this is not a commercial this is not a paid advertisement and i didn't recognize jay's brilliance or genius when i saw it first i had a friend practice at the crest street that we go all the way back to Creighton university uh I’ve known him forever and he was always telling me about this dude he had to he had to whine to me about jay like when you do that you're goanna you know you're goanna love it i think it waned on me for like four years before i finally did it i thought damn and now what jay's scheduling institute does I’ve had the dso kingpins on this show all the big ones if you own 500 offices or more you've been on this show they all tell you that their call center how they answer the phone is their secret sauce i mean so you know um steel you know in politics they call it opposition research you need to study your opponent if i was an independent owner operated general dentist I’d be studying the hell out of these dsos i mean they had to learn something along the way but um jay i see on your screen if you're on itunes you don't see this but obviously you're a handsome man you're made for tv and he's sitting there and if you're on itunes this beautiful desk and it says culture is king why are you sitting next to a desk uh that sign well i thought we were first of all it's great to be with you as always you are a fantastic leader and just doing so much for people so as always it's it's great to be with you it's a lot of fun um hey listen i thought we were going to talk about culture today and i think that kind of where everybody is it is just a reminder and you know in culture there's a rule and it's that the doctor owns culture and i just think it's this what we've discovered it's a subject that isn't talked about a lot in dental school isn't talked a lot about in continuing education courses and so i was hoping we could have a little banter about that today and and hopefully give your listeners maybe an elevated version and actually how to make that commitment and really help them understand what culture is because we found most people don't know what culture actually is well i i will agree to talk culture if you first promise me you'll review um the culture of the Atlanta falcons after holding a 25 point lead with uh eight minutes left in the third quarter and then lose a super bowl uh have number one have you recovered from that and did their culture recover from that uh i think what you're describing is was the beginning of a losing culture and you know you got a great owner you they got plenty of talent and i was there as their guest and uh my son and i were there and we were planning on going to the greatest super bowl party we'd ever been to in you know an hour or whatever it was and then you know we watched the meltdown but i mean you can watch i mean and i think they finally now so I’m a season ticket holder but clearly there's there's a problem we don't know what it is but it's not an example of a winning culture so when we did a big event on culture last year we brought in nick saban as the speaker we didn't bring in the falcons coach if that makes any sense [Laughter] oh my god that's brutally true and honest well um i gotta i gotta confess to you i mean you know i i am a dentist and i know my homies they they stayed the only reason they got in dental school or med school is because they stayed in a library and knocked out a's in calculus physics geometry they just i mean i look at a guy like you i mean when i lectured for you back in atlanta my god talk about feeling like a rock star for a day uh that really was that was amazing um yeah like 1600 people in there i mean you you arrive in a helicopter you're all handsome and charming and you're you're just made for uh for tv my homies are made for figuring out the cosine and a tangent of a triangle and then and now they got a lead um people hygienist staff assistants they got to deal with our patient karen who's crazy and they weren't made for the you were made for tv they were made for a library i i don't well first of all i would say you're very nice and it's not true I’m a terrible terrible who plays an extrovert on tv and on the stage okay so interestingly i think that you know one of the things that can occur and what i would hope everyone would do is first of all let's talk about what culture is howard because culture is actually what the people think about you who work for you so let me go through that again so it's funny we say well what is culture culture is what the people that work in your organization think about you now if you think about every funny skit about companies and team members and what people say about their boss and how they portray bosses most of it's atrocious most of it's terrible right you know they're not we don't show great bosses and so i just want to say the first thing is is that every business has a culture and everybody when they walk into that business if you believe it or not will make a decision about that culture there'll be a feeling about that culture right and so you can walk into an office and you immediately be what we want to do is when you own culture and that's the invitation for everyone today is first to own it so if i had my way everybody would get a hat and it would say i own culture and that's the beginning step howard i think the truth is that they just have never taken on that responsibility and they've got to take it on because by default no matter what they do [Music] they're in charge of the culture and um and you like that nick nicholas lou saban the uh football coach at university alabama when i grew up the greatest coach in football was the bear um do you think a big part of their success the bear bear bryant and uh lou is um you say culture is what the players think of them so they conducted you're saying they conducted themselves in a way that the players thought about them in a way that made them more successful well absolutely in other words what was funny when i was putting together our roster we did a big event we call the culture fest we're actually going to do it again next year and and i told all my clients i said listen i am going to put on the single greatest event ever performed in dentistry on culture i guarantee it and that was what i set out to do and so one of the things we did is we said okay let's look at sports and let's look at the the team that we think has the most the winning culture so i had to pull out all the stops got nick saban to come and his talk was on how to create a winning culture now when when you think about the culture you want to have let me give you kind of a definition of the way we would say it to a doctor high performing high performing patient centric growth oriented culture now that's a that's a mouthful but when you really think about what you want to create so the important parts are that patient-centric part and then obviously look we're in the business of helping doctors help more people which is about scaling so when we look at high-performing patients patient-centric growth-oriented culture and so you got to pick some of the and saban was tremendous you know and and what you learned what we learned from having saban in is that what you see on tv is not the nick saban so first of all bringing a college football coach into an environment where everyone has different teams everyone wanted to hate saban but what they said afterwards was hey i don't like Alabama anymore than i did before but I’m now a saban fan because what they got to see was the real side of him and why he does what he does and it actually went back to his father who was a coach in an impoverished area who used to go pick up the kids and drive him in this bus that had all these crazy motivational quotes on the side well he's basically it's almost more like a mission for young kids if you think about it this mission just happens to be to make them the best and get them in the nfl and the college environment allows him to have an unlimited budget in what he does to do that that's why their facilities are so incredible huh um i really love that so you say the uh says the dental office culture is what your team thinks of you the dentist owner and should be a high-performing patient-centric growth-oriented culture um yeah right so so my my uh question is i um uh you're awfully kind I’m not I’m dentistry uncensored what letter grade would you give the median average modal dental office in america i mean there's 150 000 practices what letter grade would you give them absolute probably a d because it would be for the default culture in other words you have a culture if you want one and you know it took me a long time in business until i even understood this i mean i used to think when somebody talked about culture i thought that's too fuzzy for me i need something specific and concrete and the truth is we all have a culture so if you're if this is the first time you've ever thought about culture what that means is you don't have an intentional culture you have the default culture so what we got to do is swap out and move to the intention not the default know there's a great expression and that is you know we brought in a speaker this event i love one of the things that they did is they said you know you know a lot of people say howard you're goanna I’m goanna rise to the occasion and there you know i prefer that version that says you're going to sink to your level of preparation which was a quote from a an anonymous navy seal you're going to sink so like what we just went through with kovid people sunk to their level of preparation man I’m taking notes i i always take so many notes with you my god last time i saw you lecture in phoenix at your phoenix place my my hand uh was actually uh sore i mean really it's amazing but but j but um but first of all you said something that i find hard to believe your uh your norm your true self is more shy and introvert you play an extrovert landing in a helicopter yeah you play that on tv but you're really a shy guy yes damn so you know how my dogs think then well no I’m just saying it's why like i think that's the misperception like you're acting like people can't do something i think listen when the one thing that humans have is when you make up your mind to do something you know you got this fantastic thing up here and when you decide to do something most people can do it it's about making that decision and that's kind of what I’m saying about culture if you will take culture let me give you a you familiar with chick-fil-a absolutely man gosh unbelievable unbelievable success story i i just gotta tell you can i just say one thing about that so i grew up i mean i cut my teeth on sonny driving my mom and dad were catholic they had seven kids in about an hour but he lived below his means he saved his money and i was 10 he'd only made 11 000 a year he bought a sonic drive-in franchise and that first year he made 60 grand and then he went on to open eight more and it just blew my mind um it just blew my mind and but mcdonald's was number one burger king was number two and wendy's was number three and i was so proud when the wendy's man died his daughter um implemented about a hundred little things that the franchisees talked about and wendy's finally passed burger king and became number two and she wasn't even number two for an hour and then here comes chick-fil-a out of nowhere and beats everyone and goes to number one so she's back at number three again so i feel sorry for her but chick-fil-a i mean they're not even open on sunday they they break all the rules and make all the money um what were you goanna say about chick-fil-a well they're another company we hired two of their uh one of their marketing executives and their human resource director who both worked with uh truett the founder and they were at this event too and it was so interesting that you know well first of all anyone's never been you got to go to chick-fil-a just to compare how you know and then you'll realize it but so they finally one of the things that he brought to us and and i appreciate it is they they they got to a point where at one point they were having to recruit people like one of the things right now doctors are losing good people and recruiting is going in 2021 recruiting is going to be is going to have to be a priority for most doctors and so it was interesting they did a study to try to figure out what the most talented people wanted in their jobs and and and they got it down to three things you want me to give them to you absolutely i thought they were tremendous okay and so this is what does the best most talented person want or what are they looking for and so again when you say well what does this have to do with culture well it has to do with what you should be providing is the three things I’m about to describe and like you said doctors thinking about other things they're not thinking about this one they want a better boss so is there a better boss than a lot of the dentists you've seen over your career answer not very hard right right better boss next was a brighter future and in particular they were looking to be stretched and to be trained and so we do massive amounts of training and that training is actually a recruiting tool but you'd be shocked at how few people actually use it and then the third thing they want is to be part of a larger vision and what that means is some kind of meaningful contribution to the world so when we look at a dental office and we say okay come to my office who's their boss goanna be and you know i always think of the stereotypical model where you've got this office manager who controls everything right and that doesn't necessarily mean she's a great boss either so understand if a doctor doesn't want to be a great boss I’m you know that's that's a problem but then we've got to make sure the second in command at least can fulfill the seat right team members need a good boss so who do you think um we talked about i love that i said what letter grade do you give the 150 000 general dental offices 32 hours a week or more and you said a d by default um i want to hold your feet to fire on this who do you think has the better culture for young dentists or for dentistry today the dsos or the the owner operators who do you think is doing a better job at culture and will attract and retain more people for the future first of all as you know I’m not a I’m i don't I’m not i try to stay away from the dsos okay because my mission is to help the independent practitioner now my stuff shows up in their places a lot and i get that and some of my people go on and all that but here's the truth about it from a competitive standpoint if you are an independent owner you will actually have the freedom if you grow your business to a decent size you can beat them in culture all day long because the truth about them maintaining culture is the larger and the more units you get the more difficult it is to have culture so i i believe there's a path and that path is so i'll give you an example one of the things you know when you think about most people that hire their first associate howard can you imagine if there was a there was like an interaction and and you see the tour and the associate says hey where am i going to work most people they don't even have an office for the doctor to work in like they go well you're just going to be out in the hallway so for instance we've been able to get very creative i mean we've built locker rooms we've you know we've I’ve encouraged clients to invest in nicer space for the associate doctors i mean what it actually takes to beat out other people in culture it's a low low bar so the great i think what they think is and remember it's not just about the money right i mean the studies suggest that people won't just leave all because of money it's the way they're treated so i mean I’ve created a formula for the independent doctor to basically win in the culture game against the large dso group practice that's in their town that's the goal so so why do you uh well first of all um i know I’ve podcasted interviewed most all the major dso kingpins and they all credit you uh for creating that that space i mean you weren't a me too product when you showed up in dentistry not only did it take me four years to get it while my friends were beating on my head then i got it and i thought wow you actually invented a whole space i mean um it was uh it was the dentist is um they it was all about the dentist it was all about the dentistry and I’m going to go to this tmj course and I’m going to get panky spear koi's raw snatch all this stuff and you were there like dude who's answering your phone and that person in phoenix 3.8 million people when they call your dental office i don't care how many alphabet soup you have behind your name the whole thing's goanna be decided by who answers that phone and you were the first person that took that serious and every dso kingpin i was out here in phoenix bob fontana the CEO of aspen uh i met him out there at his call center and um he's got one here in phoenix and one in chicago and they all credit you with inventing that space i mean so uh what's allowed a lot of them to scale to the way they could right oh there's no question but what you got to remember is you know for 20 plus years after that I’ve been continuing this journey along with a group of guys who were now going on to figuring out the next issues right so okay how do you build a great team how do you run two big locations how do you run a 25 op multi-disciplinary practice how do i actually get out of the chair i mean so this has been the fun part how do i actually get rich and not just let a bunch of money come in and out of my life okay i know i know how my homies think jay and they're uh they're mathematicians so the first thing their walnut brain's goanna say is kind of sounds warm and fuzzy and all that how does this actually affect my practice and affect my economics is this just feel good stuff aurora rally or will it affect my practice and the bottom line well but let me give you let's turn this around and let's think about the typical doctor who goes to a seminar gets a great idea and tries to go implement it with a team and it doesn't go anywhere well that is a reflection of your relationship with those people when you think about what creating trust does trust is the greatest accelerator of ideas a lack of trust causes no movement at all and things are very very slow so when you look at the connection between culture which is very trust oriented by the way what you're talking about is you're talking about speed or execution versus literally just kind of dying on the vine so to speak so imagine if you had a culture where every time you had an appropriate idea that culture would absorb that idea and execute that idea that's kind of the fantasy that any any leader would have will you say that one more time trust is that when you say trust is there a well greatest accelerator yeah yeah so think about this there was actually uh one of the coveys did an amazing book that i highly recommend and i give to everybody it's called the speed of trust and in that book he outlines how and it's really funny the you know the first circle in that that that uh diagram is self-trust so what's kind of funny is how we feel about our own abilities then is what transfers into relational trust so there's one of the things about culture what you're really doing you know so you go back to saban so the question is does a new recruit trust that's that that saban you get what I’m saying is going to get him in the nfl well if you look at the stats you got a pretty good shot at getting to the nfl right right so to trust is a huge part so what a lot of people don't realize is the reason your team doesn't do what you ask them to do and this is crazy is that they don't trust you and does it not think of it that way it's almost horrifying to think about but that's actually what's going on well they always when when you come back from a seminar and you're all excited you say something they'll roll their eyes because they know it's going to be just like it always has been uh given enough time it's not nothing they always say well nothing's ever goanna change because they trust in that more than something else that goes back to the question of if you if you go back and you say we have a high performing right which means we don't allow low performers patience-centric most of the changes like the thing i look that whole system i developed you know that was completely based on what was best for the patient and nothing else patient does not want to him and haw when they call your office they want to make an appointment and come in and that was always and continues to be my focus get yourself out of the way give the patient what the patient wants and the thing is goanna do well but you gotta get a team member who trusts i mean i have been called you know it's a cult jay guyer is just about the money i mean I’ve been called every terrible name you possibly can by a person who didn't trust their doctor just to follow our system and they make it into something it's not trust is important yeah and I’m I’ve always been accused of having uh um facial uh hair transplants and uh muscle implants and that I’m on steroids i look at my body and think oh that's not natural you must be taking steroids to have muscles this big and be this hot hey howard but you listen you have a lot of trust with your people and you you know and i know that that's probably one of the things that you if you stopped and said what are what are one or two of the things that you most are appreciative for wouldn't that trust be pretty high on the list yes it's everything and you know journalists are always saying like um well why do American people care what a movie star thinks or like why do they care what willie nelson thinks they should think about what a scientist or a politician thinks it's like well they obviously trust willie nelson if he if he told if he's if he's honest with you he tells you everything they they trust him also well now hey now that the election is over or not over but still going on you know we use robert cialdini's six principles of influence and there's one which is called liking where you intentionally get people to like you i mean i think that one cost trump the election he didn't do a very good job of getting people to like him and if you look at what the democrats did is they said let's hate trump and they did a very effective job of ringing that bell it was just it's one of the things that and again every doctor we've got to think about you know why does a team member embezzle from a doctor you know why does that happen yeah so did you know he was my uh teacher at arizona state university when i got my mba um robert uh sanaldini yeah how do you say his name chaldini chaldini yeah i i can't say it and uh it's funny because what i like the most about him is whenever i email him or text him or something he always works in one of his quotes in the answer like i i said to something one that he goes great use of blah blah blah blah but he lives he lives right around the corner but uh yeah he'll say i like the way howard you use blah blah blah but i mean powerful guy um yes yeah we basically have we've partnered with him for a number of years and much of the way we teach a doctor how to become more influential is based on his research yeah so we actually try to train them okay well here's what you got to do you know like when we're training a young associate doctor we're we're going through that list right and we're saying okay how are we going to get you to have authority let's put some glasses on you okay show me likable all right oh man you're you're too stiff you know so we actually anyway so it's great stuff by the way yeah he's he's a uh he's a very uh interesting man i really like it um so um do you think my guy my my average guy out there has got the tools i mean they always say this they say is um like being a leader they say well are you born being a leader i mean obviously in the nfl i know being a five foot seven short fat irish guy i was not born with what it takes to play in the nfl i I’ve never even touched the bottom of the net let alone the top of the net but do you think you're born with this or do you think it's a trainable skill to be a leader and and have a culture that's intentionally designed as opposed to default culture yeah well listen it it over a lot of years what I’ve done is to walk people through the process and i will tell you that all of these things can be learned the question is are you willing to put in the work and are you willing to basically you know so much of this howard is about submitting and not thinking you know everything you know we learned the most you know you're you're a you're a consummate student right you're a guy who i would go man it doesn't matter what it is you're curious and you have so much knowledge but it's because of that curiosity so if if i mean I’ve been able to take what i would consider to be relatively socially inept people and make them pretty darn good at this and when you realize that a lot of what culture like right now let me give an example of how we're doing this right now okay so when when kovid hit i said to everybody i said okay listen you need to pull three or four of your team members together and you need to make a safety committee and all the decisions about what you do need to come out of that group of people so that your team members know that team members are making the decision on safety and that you're just not ignoring it and trying to put them in harm's way and that process of of of having a safety team basically is the process of getting the team to be though instead of complaining about what we're doing we're now becoming part of the solution and i think what goes on with culture is very much the same so like we think what kovid did i tell this story howard you ever ride a bike when you were a kid oh yeah okay well I’m goanna tell you this disturbing game we used to play we would take a stick and you would ride bikes and somebody would try to throw the stick in the in the spokes of the front tire now if that ever gets in there you know what happens you go you go flying over the handlebars so i think what covid has done to many organizations particularly if they just had a default culture is that it it has now created some completely different nuances and some people are finding they're having a hard time they're seeing things now that they weren't prepared for so that's why you know I’m really championing culture in offices right now because culture is about being in reality understanding what the team thinks about you actually showing that you're the kind of person who can make an adjustment i mean hey howard when you learn something do you change what you do i try i i yeah that's the kind of person you are so i think it's about being exposed to the things that we need i mean listen you know you know if you know nick saban said something was interesting he goes you know most teams they they lose before they ever take the field against us makes sense doesn't it mentally they they think they're going to lose what it would take to get someone see it's hard for a college team to think they're going to beat Alabama at this point so when when you look at what's going on right now i mean we've got new elements i mean we're at the front lines of the covid situation right i mean we got to have a culture that's about safety i mean how do we grow in that culture we've got to now communicate what we're doing to patients at the highest highest level i mean there's just a lot of things and again I’m just telling you think about the measure of your culture is how how when you go to implement something does it get done so um jay let's switch to the um from pre-pandemic to post-pandemic um you know when i when i look at dental association the dsos get a lot of bad light because uh they're transparent it's the same thing about florida um the reason everybody sees all these uh the crime and crazy stuff in florida's because they're transparent with their criminal justice stuff so you can actually see all that stuff a lot of other states you would know what the hell is going on so so you can track down the craziest people in florida because it's transparent but but it's a millennial thing i mean like my mom's brother lives up the street from me he got a job at mobile oil in the mail room when he was 16 and then he retired and he was 65 with his pension he stayed one place um the older japanese people did that at toyota honda but um the new generation millennials they they job hop i mean even among the fang stocks um facebook apple amazon netflix uber all these uh microsoft all these great companies millennials only average one to three years or one to two years amazon has the lowest one year their average employee stays with them one year how ruthless of a CEO are you when your average employee only stays here but on the greatest line keeping them the longest is facebook who you know mark zuckerberg's dad is a dentist uh ed zuckerberg been on the show um three times and they give him everything in the world and they only stay for two years and a lot of people say oh these dsos you know they quit every year they quit every year in private practice um so you think that the cards do you think the cards are stacked against us because we're dealing with a millennial in 2020 and they just job hop or do you really think you can reverse that trend and get them to stay with you five to ten years i think if you spend every day saying that millennials will never do this you're right and I’m a big believer in thoughts become things and you go back to all the original great things we learned in life and how the world works and the power of a decision and the power of commitment and that's what I’m trying to flip right i mean you can't go through the world think you can't go through your time as a business owner talking about how not good team members are you got to switch the narrative to see we make great team members howard they're not born you can't pick them you make them you got to have a system and you make them and you know that that that's what I’m trying to get people to understand you know and and not trying to make them is letting them run whatever it is that's and you know what they've said and i think it is true a lot about the millennials is they want it's interesting maybe they've got something figured out we never had figured out that they're saying that money is not their main motive howard they want to be you know in a job that has a purpose i mean so you almost as much as I’ve talked talk bad about millennials look i think they're completely distracted i think all that stuff but look you can have a rule you can't have your phone right that's easy if you're willing to enforce it put your phone away don't have it all day on you right they can do that so i think that what this is about is about you know okay how many think about this and you pick any town in america how many great team members do we need right is it 10 is it 12 is it 25 we're not talking about so what you want to have is they come in the system makes them good the system retains them as much as you can then they go we start it again and i think what we're talking about is we're talking about actually being cognizant of what that system looks like having a team company calendar you'd be surprised you know what when i discovered that almost none of my clients published a team calendar for the year with all the important dates i mean is that hard well you know for me um you know when i came out to when i was picking my demographics um i did it real intentional like say with intention because i learned it from my dad's sonic driving deals and i found two breathtaking locations and one was in phoenix and one was in scottsdale i thought to myself okay howard look um you know you're you're just trailer trash from kansas and and you go up to scottsdale and that's a whole different look i i believe it with cosmetic I’ve noticed that all the cosmetic dentists that are crushing it they're always hot they always look like you they don't look like me and i thought you know what my people are more in uh phoenix and I’m just going to go to phoenix and i just feel more relaxed and it's the best decision I’ve ever had in fact my favorite patients are all from the guadalupe indian reservation they're the poorest of the poor with dirt floors they're nicer the nicest ones and the few very rich patients i have they're the biggest pain in the butt but when it comes to um hr i thought the same thing um i grew up with five sisters and dentistry when i started in 87 it was all women employees and i just thought to myself um lori i just said you're just a better girly people person with this calendar events and everything and i know i know at the arizona cardinals the owner bidwell um he was a patient of mine he didn't he didn't do his draft picks and all that stuff he had other people do that do you think a lot of dentists should look in the mirror long and hard and say you know what you got five people on your team uh this girl's been with you a long time maybe you just give that function to her or do you think the dentist has to own it and be that person does he have to turn into hollywood and become a movie star and pretend that they're the guy yeah and listen i think what you're saying is you know i don't think when we talk about culture hey every market has its different culture right i mean i and and so i think look we're localizing to culture we're not trying to say be like hollywood you know it's like this whole thing about like hollywood and new york right they think they're the greatest well okay there's a lot of us in the middle right and you know not everyone who lives in the south is stupid as they would like to portray does that make sense there's a culture in the south you like that culture so i want to make it clear you you it's always local but what we're say it's a combination so i think there's two steps one i want people to own it and howard when i took it on in my company and i said I’m goanna own culture it was funny i actually for many years did it i owned it i dropped it i let it go and then i came back and took it again so i didn't learn this from i learned it because i was doing it originally then i tried to delegate it off and i went for a couple years and i didn't really control it and this is what caused me to come back to the discovery of saying wow you know what that activity was way more important than i thought it was and I’m goanna go back to it and then you you can begin to so in our company here's how it works okay who owns culture and i would say i own culture and let's say vanessa was in here with me vanessa would say well i own culture too so the way we do it is yes i own culture but everyone owns culture as well because I’m not in every room so if if if there's three people meeting in a room and we say who owns culture the answer is they all own culture and so i i think it's about it's a combination of the things you just described but i'll tell you one thing we've watched is you know what's interesting so I’ve i i coach a bunch of people right and i get together with them several times a year and so we used to have this thing where you come into the meeting howard and and we'd we'd say okay uh every okay we're goanna put up a list of everyone who had their best month ever you know 78 of the room walks up to the front I’ve never seen people less excited in my life most most collections ever come up here and celebrate they don't celebrate most new patients ever come up here so what i did learn about many of my dental clients they're not good at producing energy for millennials and that we needed help so for instance you want to start a team meeting you let one of your millennials turn on some music they all start dancing around they're they're having fun i can't get a doctor to do that to save my life so we need that you may not need it they need it but again jay i i i know my homies i am a dentist and I’ve been out there for a long time and if they want to spruce up their office if they are going to commit to taking it to the next level they know they should just buy a piece of technology it should be a hundred and thirty five thousand dollar cad cam or a new lenap laser from millennium for 135 grand something they think it's all about gadgets yep all my physician friends they never talk like that you could have dinner a hundred times as physicians and they would never talk about a piece of equipment and you go to a hundred dentists dinners with dentists it's their bragging rights well i got a cat gap the others i got a cbct you know so they're goanna they think they're goanna buy a piece of technology to make them successful well and that's where the problem lies that's why culture and dentistry is so darn important in other words we've got to get the message out that hey listen this is kind of like the ignored situation and listen the one thing you know you look at a competitive situation i i i would share anything i do culturally with anybody and i would hope they would copy it does that make sense but you know what i know they're not going to do they're not going to copy it so like here's one give 10 of all your pr so here here like so let's take every dental company who's successful right how about they start giving ten percent of their profits away they ain't goanna do it well you know i I’ve been saying um the um how my my 30-day dental mba came out in 1998 i was seeing it on there i mean it's on record I’ve been saying take your technology budget on cad cams and lasers and chair side milling and spend it all on consultants because when they if they hire a consultant for 50 grand um in 12 months not only do they always get the 50 grand back they get more back and then when they buy a cad cam a chair side milling machine i mean most of these guys especially the the dental cpas that i know they can't they can't even figure a return on investment on it but but with a consultant you always find it but listen one of the things that i did which is a little different you know i mean i made a decision you know and now i think this is our 11th year for 11 years I’ve run a a university for my clients team members and over that 11 years howard we've done everything i mean we've we've made marketing directors in offices we've made human resource people whatever i think is the thing they need i set up a program to to make and basically manufacture one of those for them and i think that's the part that a lot of people it's so daunting to think about training your team and what most people just don't realize is that you know it's you know i would put it in the you know if you take 100 of your revenue right you want to know anything about money well first of all the the first 10 and the rules are very clear about money there's there's 10 that should go back to the house so to speak but then you know it's like i look at you and say well reinvesting in the business is another another section and i listen i think the one thing nobody if you spend a lot of time creating amazing team members see i think a lot of doctors think if i make them great they're going to leave not true that's why they're too cheap to spend any money on developing their team because i think they're going to get good and leave me that's not accurate if you make them good they'll stick around but you got to make them good and they're not going to do it on their own time um there's a large segment of dentists that um I’ve been telling them forever they're they're drug addicts they um they want to solve all their problems uh with burning and churning patients it's just they just keep investing in marketing and i look at these great companies that um you know it seems like so many of them the best ones like look at um sam walton with walmart in bentonville arkansas nobody had a warranty nobody um took items back but he was in a small town of 5000 and when someone bought a pair of shoes and the heel fell off um sam said well that's not our problem it's the guy who made him you take it up with them and then that lady uh told helen about it and church on sunday and helen came home and said you're goanna take it back and when that son of a gun comes back to sell you ten more pairs of shoes you give it to him you make him take it back so he pushed take backs up the value chain and changed quality dentists think my gosh i know i know there's so many things wrong with our office i know people get upset leaves bad views don't come back but I’m just going to double down on marketing i mean I’m I’m in phoenix you're in atlanta there's millions of people i ca i can burn and churn 50 new people a month and none of this matters do you think you can that i mean where would you prioritize um you know marketing technology consulting there's an absolute correct hierarchy that I’ve identified and it is if you just it's so not what everyone thinks right so we've broken this down to five things and the number one is human capital okay these businesses are people businesses howard and so when you know when you talk about your team that's human capital that includes you as the doctor so what you got to realize you know if you ever play you know i always tell people right it's like you know hey play like the person you're going to end up working for someday you know like my thing now is listen you got a choice either you can go to work for someone else and see what it's like to work for a CEO or why don't you try give it three years of trying to play CEO and if it turns out you're terrible or atrocious at it you know you can then hire somebody or go to work for somebody but what do you say you try it right and that's what a lot of people have never made an effort to do and so human capital is number one that's like in sports it's the talent you put on right great coaching if you got no talent you have a problem okay so normally what we do is we look at the human capital first and if the human so for instance if you look at what i did with the phones if your phone ratings are correct go mark it a marketing company will tell you to market before they monitor your phones by the way the biggest problem i have right now is everybody thinks that recording calls equates to training and that's bs it's creating a false illusion so many people think just because a marketing company is recording your phone calls that that you that that constitutes training your team that's not true so for anyone listening who thinks that we're recording the calls constitutes telling them how to do it right you're dead wrong you actually still have to train them so human capital first then we look at the marketing is that you follow what I’m saying otherwise i i don't want to interrupt greatness wow you're burning up the money and so what the problem that most people have it's like if you if you were to go on my website and you take what we call the five star challenge we have an unbiased rating system okay it's real simple if you're anything less than a four or five there is a massive opportunity to train your team and to get incredible results with no extra money and we tell everybody listen unless you're getting a four you're getting a four or five you can spend as much money as you want on marketing the other thing i would tell you howard i think the greatest measure and by the way it's a culture measure is what you do is you take a guy calls me up he's getting 50 patients and they're all advertised I’m telling him he is in deep deep trouble because the number that matters is the number of patient referrals as a percentage of their entire population you should be over 50 percent patient referrals you have a great culture and your patience because remember culture is also what your patients say about you right yeah um so so you're saying that if you have a great culture your word of mouth referral should be over 50 uh of your new business your human capital is trained correctly to when the patient comes in to make the experience all about remember patient-centric is the part about the culture where we make it about you not about the fact we want to take a break and go text our husband and eat a donut in the back i mean they don't care whether you want to go eat a donut or have a snack or what that's not that patient should have that is that should have no bearing on the patient experience and if you really think about what a patient you know most of the work I’ve done post being able to drive in a bunch of new patients is all about patient centricity which is basically taking a team member or human capital and saying you know what I’m goanna do for eight hours I’m goanna put myself second and I’m goanna put the patient first in a system that is designed to make the patient feel a certain way well i i love the fact where um you said let me um I’m taking so many notes um jager founder founder and CEO of scheduling institute says culture is what your team thinks of you the dentist owner and should be a high-performing patient-centric growth-oriented culture okay when you just i mean i just look at this patient-centric i mean when dentists tell me they're patient-centric as opposed to dennis centric it it's it's hard to talk to him with a straight face i mean the federal reserve has over 3 000 phd economists and they've come out with studies that show 100 million of the 331 million americans cannot go to the doctor monday through friday eight to five they can't do it right oh yeah all my homies have worked monday through thursday eight to five um you know when do you take your lunch well don't take it at noon that's when everybody takes their lunch can't you 11 to 12 or one to two well one to two is too late and eleven searly i go at 12. i mean got when a dennis tells you he's patient-centric do you just like laugh or cry or well and you know you guys would you'd prop a guy up he gets up on the stage and he says well I’d like to start out and I’d like to tell you that first of all i work three days a week and what the crowd should be doing is saying get off the stage buddy I’m not goanna listen to anything you say because what he basically is saying and then i go play golf every friday so i and i pay my team five days a week but we have we bought we invested in facilities which we only operate you know sixty percent of the time and I’m your model for success it's not patient-centric at all and another thing i'll never forget when um my youngest boy told me this you know you know I’ve been dragging around to seminars i mean he met you you know when they were little and they he said uh dad he goes um uh at college um he actually wanted a job at subway because he loves subway i mean he just could eat here all the time you want to get a job where he loves to eat and he couldn't believe it he said dad i had more training before i saw my first customer than anything I’d ever heard of he goes because there's you know i mean we had to go to meetings we had that we had the um he had to do six computer online videos and pass each one of them but i mean and dennis if i hired you for a receptionist hell you start monday and you'd walk in there monday and the first thing you do is answer the phone i mean then just don't train their employees mcdonald's trains i bet chick-fil-a i would love to know how chick-fil-a goes from a stranger off the street before they turn them loose on a customer compared to dentistry well it's significantly more and as a matter of fact last year i did a track in my university and it was specifically for my clients to send their human resource person or office manager and one of the things we did is we said we did a survey and we said okay listen we want to know from the time we we studied you hire them what is the amount of time until they're basically on the floor so you want to know what the answer was it was exactly like you said it was typically the same day they started so imagine if you're saying okay here's all my humans in this bucket right we have this great we are patient-centric we're very focused on the patient but you literally go hire a person off the street and drop them right in there and you don't think that they affect all the other humans in there yeah it totally does so let me so let's i'll tell you how we do it right like we got we got i think eight or nine people starting next week they are in a tank for 30 days howard a tank we don't let them back we don't they don't get to join the community of people and you know what if we start eight two of them might leave in that first period of time that that i mean it was crazy how there was no transition so again if you think about the the worst things you could possibly have for culture is the the worst patient and your worst employee you actually look at the way a lot of businesses are run they listen to those people way more than they should and then you start creating things to accommodate those people which is not even your your customer but but jay the industry is going the wrong way i mean when i talk to specific dentists like well why did you quit working there you had this job you know why why did you quit working there so i mean so much of it um you know we complain um um the patients complain that every time they go to dso it's a different dentist so that's their complaint but when the dentist complains to me they don't complain the other way they say well you know what howard the last straw was i was driving into work i was really scared i had a molar root canal scheduled you know i didn't even do one in dental school and i was all pumped for it and last night i was on YouTube and online and getting all pumped for i go in there and they got a temp for the assistant today i mean my you know they're always they're always um using temp staff and and so many of these dso say well they're they're not employees or cheaper um it's more flexible it's everything in their walnut brain for flexibility and the flip and dentist hate it and i can vouch for that because my gosh i am such a brat when i show up and i get a temp i mean the the staff just you know they just in fact sometimes if both of my assistants forever are goanna be out and I’m goanna have a temp they just rescheduled they know that they don't even want to deal with me so so instead of having a long-term staff building relationship they think it's cheaper faster and easier to have temporary oh you got extra hygiene just hire a temporary hygiene so you're going to let a stranger hygienist come in your office all day see eight people and you couldn't pick her out of a police lineup and now you're turning her loose on a day of hygiene i mean what do you think of the and then the the explosive growth of the uh nationwide dental staffing agencies is correlating the growth of the dsos neck to neck and their number one problem is is employee turnover so i mean don't you think it's like giving cocaine to a crack addict well yeah i mean but remember in all of these problems and you're such a kind of a global thinker about it and i think what we got to do is get down to the local solution you know and it's always like okay and i do think howard there's this size issue is very confusing for people and so you know the typical guy comes out he sets up four or five operatories he signs a 10-year lease and you can't grow and so i do think that when we talk about a lot of this stuff that what I’ve noticed i take a lot of people people come to me and they got four ops and I’m like listen okay that's goanna have to end okay you're goanna have to buy a new building we're goanna have to you're goanna have to get to a scale and so what happens is when you get to a scale now this becomes easier so now we can have the capacity to render the service the same day now week you know you know what i mean i mean and i think that's a big deal for a lot of people the typical office i mean what do you think the average number of ops is you know if you take all the dental offices i wonder what that stat is it's it's under four yeah it's under four well and and i see four as sort of like a death sentence to be honest with you oh i know very difficult you know and they always say well i don't have room for another opera I’m like dude superman worked out of a phone booth your private office is an yeah the problem is up here howard the problem is that instead of being curious right like I’m just telling you that that doesn't work and and i think it's what's such a shame is you know we tell a person to go enter a 10-year lease they shouldn't be entering 10-year leases i mean think about that a typical guy is stuck 10 years with his four ops yeah that's horrible so when when you start talking about um trading staff developing hr people stuff they're all wondering so is uh jay talking about like I’m supposed to start doing that disc profile uh you know about back in the 70s and 80s you know that the disk profile was everything um is that what you're thinking about doing i mean look we use some of those tools but i mean what you got to remember about alma you know look there's this industry and it's amazing how many people you run into who say i worked in a dental office okay like they were dental assistant or hygiene you know it's just a front desk person and listen i'll tell you some of the the the most tremendously uh committed um dedicated uh people and what they need to have is they need to have experiences that allow them to elevate their skill set and it's no different than sending a doctor to a continuing education course to learn how to do a procedure that's a good money making procedure and most there is literally no formal training for almost all of these people howard so what we've figured out is we we're doing it in two methods one we do it on site the second we do it in one of our leadership centers and these poor people you know they need to imagine a person you got to go to the same office every day every day all year and you never get a day to get away that doesn't work you you become right you're I’m sure you have better stories about how that shrinks your mind right well i i i go back to my um like um oh i'll give you an example I’m when i decide i want to learn implants I’d look for a I’m back then arizona didn't have any dental schools now it's got two I’m so jealous of all the people getting their fagd magd when they got two dental schools in their backyard i had to get an airplane flying around but i i look back at some memorable experience like that like meeting carl mitch and seven three day weekends at pittsburgh and all that but far more valuable than all of that was the lifelong friends i met at the course just getting out and and spending time with other people going for it even your event in phoenix atlanta I’ve been to several year events what what i like most about your event and i mean no disrespect to you at all but it's not just um you and all your knowledge but everyone in the crowd is going for that it's kind of like you know you you play pickup ball in the in the park every day and then and then some place you go and they're all people that made the high school team and i i feel like when I’m in your audience I’m only with the nfl i mean there's guys in there from nobody nowhere nothing towns like reno nevada and they're just crushing it that the mindset of your followers is uh unbelievable you you attract and you know i want to listen i want to thank you you guys have obviously been very helpful in introducing us to people and listen i you know i i think you know and i i appreciate that comment and i and i tell them this but you know it it's true i don't have a client i don't like and part of the reason is is it's culture in other words you go to one of my events there's a culture and it's not an excuse-making culture it's not a whining culture it's not you know they're there to do what we need to do and it's and listen i I’m very i very thankful in any of my clients listening you know i i i i think i have a great job and i i think it has been a tremendous journey and and that that lawyer and but time in is what makes that howard right time in you've got people that have been with you for so long despite what you might do or not do or whatever the situation is right you gotta there's a culture to you there's no question i remember the first time you got up on stage and you started just dropping f-bombs i was like oh this is fantastic do you do that as much as you used to no i was no i was i was when i was young i was you know phillip piston vinegar and all that but the problem i had when i was younger is i was doing stand-up comedy at all these places like I’ve been I’m coming ever so whenever i do stand up I’m not never forget when uh uh paulie shore's uh um mom owned the comedy club and everything they're all telling oh my god you're you're so you're so clean this is great because you know when you're in the comedy club you're just like vulgar to a different level and when i was in the comedy club they said you're the cleanest act we have then i go into dentistry which is more like a a church and I’m like oh my god he's a raunchiest guy so context is everything but no I’m uh hell I’m 58 now i can't talk like that because i got grandkids now oh my god so i had to clean up my language for my grandkids but um yeah you get older and um but jay i i still um i see you know where you're going with this and and um you know you you have so many features to you but i still think the fundamental thing of all this extras is um my own friends in this town they um gosh this week they don't even know how many incoming calls went to voicemail never answered they don't i call my friends because I’m trying to hook them up um you know um um getting drunk after work or drink at a bar or something like that and and it's like can you please hold and then I’m like 12 minutes later no one's even said anything and then i finally hang out and then then i'll call later i'll call and say well did you did you even get a message i mean these they still can't answer that phone and then when i go to aspen's call center i mean my god it's the size you could park a 747 inside the building and guess what they tell me that there this is the crazing they won't hire anybody with dental experience they say i it's too hard to unbreak their habits we want we want fresh people we've tried with people oh I’ve been doing it for 10 years um so they're they're answering their phone is still a disaster look there's you know there's no doubt that every process has a start and a finish and there's a clear start in our business and why you wouldn't fix the start makes i mean you know to your point why is it that someone can be quite frankly so naive that they would go and try to fix the back of something and not the front i i mean i it just talk about making things more complex than they need to be it's unbelievable and you know you tell me what that is is it is it pride is it fear is it stupidity you know i i gotta think that you know i love you there's a thing where it's like the four levels of learning and the the first level is unconscious incompetence and look i mean i do think we all suffer from that you don't know right you're incompetent right and that's where i think the curiosity comes in why not try something why not give it your best effort like what you've done your whole life i think is when you think something's possible you so it took you four years then you tried us out you see it works you're basically admitting that's the process so what what i do think is interesting about when you understand those steps you know it's like the same why can a person go out drink all night get up the next day walk into an office and do a procedure unconsciously competently right i mean we get there's that piece so it's like we can understand that then why can't you understand that there's just things that you don't know the difference between doing it right and doing it the way you're doing it just be open-minded to that possibility um i want um you know when i first met you you were in uh in georgia um um it's called alpharet georgia but it's uh basically atlanta and then you got a place out here phoenix um um dudakovit are you are you still having conventions or is it now all online we were able to do our coaching so we're back to bringing people in what we've done is we've moved everything out uh so for instance i'll be in phoenix next week I’ve got a uh we've had we basically figured out that if you if you social distance everybody you wear masks on the inbound in the outbound you can meet the criteria so we've basically gone and just re-engineered everything because listen we we know one of the horrible things that's happened is there are people running around out there who have it's been nine months howard since they did something that is actually meaningful to their success like maybe they haven't had their whole team together for nine months you see what I’m saying right and you guys got to realize that you can solve the problem if you go rent a big ball room and you put tables six feet apart you can get your team together okay you just got to get a little creative about how to do it and I’m shocked at how few people i mean we're in the event business so we had to figure that out so I’m just curious what is the um you know one of the things i do for dennis is that you know they're they're introverts they're all alone they practice solo they don't really see and in fact i can prove that in 1999 when i started dental town um i self-funded dental town and i had 10 competitors that raised venture capital money uh one of them raised 20 million dollars and they were all trying to sell supplies to they were trying to disintermediate patterson and shine and benco and all those guys and i thought oh that's my only lifeline i mean it wasn't for that that person that came in once a week where i could say hey my favorite ended on us what file does he use or what's that guy use or what's you know or looking for staff all that kind of stuff so for me it was my program to the outside world and i was wondering um my homie listening right now he's probably if he's uh he's commuting to work uh if you're on a trail master a stat uh stairmaster just just get off the the podcast is over just get off that damn thing and go have a bear but they're but I’m wondering what are they buying the most because you have uh the new patient solutions the doctor programs the teen training programs you have events what is what he wants to know what are all the other doctors we suffer from something i never thought i would suffer from i used to see this with other companies and that is that people think they know what we do so they don't want to do it so if somebody were so like one of the things that today i would suggest is that we have something called a blueprint day and basically a client can call up and they can say i want to have a blueprint day and what we ask them to do is either come in with their spouse or if they have a key person in their organization and they come into one of our facilities and we have a beautiful conference room with a lot of white boards and we walk them through and we look at their history we figure out what their growth rate is howard we talk about their goals and we figure out what they want and i mean I’ve done this so long i mean it doesn't matter this is so hard for everyone to understand you walk in and you say i got four ops I’m doing 750 000 and i want to go to 2 million well i can basically just say do this this this this okay it'll be two years you'll be there i this is not I’ve been doing this so that that's what's so hard for people to comprehend i mean our our lab that's the way this works so today you know i would say to somebody okay you could get a blueprint day you could certainly start with something related to the our new patient phone program or come to one of our events because I’m always like look i want someone to come hear what i have to say figure out if you like our culture don't don't judge it from afar come in and like right you were probably shocked when you showed up at one of my events because you never you know that's not a culture you see a lot so go go see it is what i recommend i also like so which website do you recommend they go to um scheduled scheduling you also have jay guyer.com yeah yeah um listen pick up the telephone i mean give us your you know or fill in some give us your information i mean look i I’m trying to make this as easy for people as possible and you know the one thing i would just say is you know the thing i like about a blueprint day which is something i invented because i was trying to figure out what people wanted and what's nice about the blueprint day howard is if if if you come in to do a blueprint day and you're not honest with me i find out you're not honest and i don't take you as a client you know and how have they and where have they shown the dishonesty mostly well I’m just saying it's like you know if you don't want to say your real numbers i mean you know listen this is not that complicated you'd be surprised right it's like I’m just saying that transparency is a terribly important part in the process of figuring out how you're going to help somebody right well um i can't believe uh my gosh we went well over an hour my gosh uh hour and a half but i can't end um i loved your book new patients now j m guyer um on amazon new patients now regain control of your practice and double your profits it's time to focus on your next horizon if you find yourself working all the time but feeling like you and your business aren't getting anywhere you're not alone being busy doesn't necessarily mean you're successful and the stress of wearing yourself thin doesn't make the road to success any smoother jm guyer is here to show you that getting that setting out on the road to take back your business can be easier than you think the book is the beginning of your journey in the chapters ahead you will learn the complete framework for increasing your clients uh streamlining your practice now you can do so in 90 days or less and that's only the beginning commit to intentionally building your practice instead of letting it control you and i just want to say one thing about what um that i just read and one thing that i can say um as an older man who's watched many people go through your um program is that a lot of dentists don't realize that even when they retire they sell their private they they think like this pandemic you know dental towns always had a thousand practices to sell now there's two thousand a lot of dentists say you know what this is the last straw screw it I’m out of here it's not even been seven months i mean some of these guys have been retired for five months and they realize they still everybody calls them doc they still see themselves as a dentist a lot of dentists a lot of your life psychology what you see in the mirror it's a big part of you so when your dental office starts failing you you take that personal because the way you see yourself you're failing and sailing selling your office when you know when the going got rough dr pansy ass sold his office and ran and hid it behind a tree i mean dude when you go when you invest in yourself and consultants and you grow it's like you just came out of the phone booth and you're no longer clark cat you're superman and it fires up their whole being and it affects their family their friends their exercise or their their dog can notice because dentists it's it's not a job like like if someone worked at mcdonald's in college they don't go the rest for life telling everybody oh when i was in mcdonald when i was in college i worked at the mall my god dentists they can never even after they've been retired for 10 years you go to lunch with them guess what the only thing they talk about and all the regrets and how they wish they would have stayed and they wish they would have done this and they wish dude you're a dentist and when you retire you're still goanna be a dentist and when you die they're goanna say their lies doc i mean damn it's it's it's personal dude and um and you know um it just is i know my dentist and the only other time I’ve seen this explain right was with steve jobs um when they interviewed um a great CEO from another company that worked with this guy they said what what people didn't realize that when they fired steve jobs they they just killed his heart and soul he was a lifeless lost soul that whole this that that company was his sole being and doc when you when you do what it takes and you get to this next level it's not just going to be at profits in your dental office and your overhead goes down it's about you your doc your dentist and i don't think you can separate the dentist from the human can do you see where I’m going with this well i think it's yeah it's about making it it's no different you know good team members want to feel you got to make this a mission i mean you've got to be obsessed about customer service in fact you know it's just switching them into different obsessions than just working on the teeth right it's like a i think it should be the thing that everyone goes through i you know i watch second lives howard guy comes in he is beat down he is tired and I’m telling you if they will focus on something else it is like a new person develops i mean and it's awesome to see it is fun to watch a 60 year old man turn into a child again you know and that's a lot of what ends up happening when they go down a different path yeah and and a lot of the consulting i'll flip it around and that's why they don't do consultants because they're embarrassed they're shameful they're afraid you're goanna come in and say oh my god this you're the worst guy we've ever seen in whatever category i cannot believe how much pain dentists hold up i was in a small town and this guy um he never has talked to this other guy crosstraining and he's saying well you know when i go to school i really messed up this tooth and and he ended up going over there and i don't even want to face the guy because i i think he probably thinks I’m the worst dentist in texas I’m like dude I’m sure he hasn't thought of you one time in the last year just get over yourself get over the fear and just be humble just just get out there and do it but on that note um i want breaking news on dentistry uncensored can just my viewers know what the m stands for i mean you're you've always been jay guyer then your book comes out and you're j m guyer well I’ve always it's michael so it's michael yeah uh uh like the uh the the archangel michael or gabriel but um but seriously jay um thank you like say thanks for innovating in uh in our industry i mean i you know this all about dentistry it was started with pierre fraschard 200 years ago and you didn't um you didn't come to dentistry remember when the uh the metoo phone book come out i mean you already had this big bill in the 80s with the ad in the yellow pages then another yellow page and i said well what's what's the advantage this nothing just me too they they they wanted in on it you didn't come to dentistry um saying I’m goanna copy someone you came to dentistry you innovated a space every dso kingpin has a call center that they're trying to do just like yours um the only way my individual homie can compete with these big dsos is there's got to be companies like yours that can do dso level and better for these uh these services and i just want to thank you from the bottom of my heart of what you've done for the owner-operated dentist uh you and i have the same mission thank you for all that you've done for dentistry i appreciate the same with you appreciate you guys a lot you're fantastic so and next time you're at phoenix let's go eat again that last restaurant was amazing i don't remember where it was so do you remember where it was some hotel in scottsdale or something royal palms right right real bombs great but uh all right jay have a rocking hot day thank you so much for coming on the show again thank you appreciate howard all right take care