Born in France, Philippe received his MS degree in bioinformatics and his PhD in biophysics from Ecole Polytechnique of Paris. Philippe is the co-founder and CEO of Dental Monitoring – the world’s first remote monitoring platform for dentistry. Founded in 2015, in Paris, France, today DM has 300 employees and offices in Paris, Austin TX, London, Hong Kong and Sydney. Prior to DM, and straight out from finishing his PhD, Philippe co-founded Harmony, a fully customized digital lingual orthodontics system. In 2011, Harmony was purchased by American Orthodontics, the world’s largest privately held manufacturer of orthodontic appliances.
VIDEO - DUwHF #1508 - Philippe Salah
AUDIO - DUwHF #1508 - Philippe Salah
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It is just a huge honor for me today to be podcast interviewing Philippe Salah he's the CEO of dental monitoring born in France Philip received his MS degree in bioinformatics and his PhD in biophysics from Ecole polytechnic at Paris Philip is the co-founder and CEO of dental monitoring the world's first remote monitoring platform for dentistry founded in 2015 in Paris France today dm has 300 employees and offices in Paris Austin Texas London Hong Kong Sydney today there are over 6 000 dennis and orthodontist are registered on the dm platform and is one of the fastest growing companies in dentistry over half a million patients have been monitored and this number is growing exponentially over half a billion intra-oral images have been captured on dm platform the dm's artificial intelligence software detects more than 180 plus clinical situations from inter-or photos taken by the patient with the dm's mobile app prior to dm and straight out from finishing his PhD Phillip co-founded harmony a fully customizable digital lingual orthodontic system in 2011 harmony was purchased by American orthodontics the world's largest privately held manufacturer of orthodontic appliances dental monitoring has over a hundred dentists and orthodontists as investors as well as Stroman the world's largest dental implant company and venturion the Europe’s largest investment fund my god Phillip it's so nice to have you on the show but as an American I’m just sitting there thinking okay you have offices in Paris London Hong Kong Sydney and for America you picked Austin Texas how did Austin Texas make the list with Paris London Hong Kong and Sydney i figured it'd at least be new York city uh but uh was it the weather what was it about Austin you know it's a good question it's a very good question um our first office in in us was kusta mesa and the problem is just it was a mess to fly there it was really a mess to fly there from from Paris then we say we saw okay let's go to new York it's easy it's quick flights it's eight hours from from Paris we get we can go there like once a week once every two weeks to manage the team there and to grow there to grow the market but the problem is basically you you you are you can't really serve correctly the the the us with not being on on every time zone so we say okay why not Denver why not Austin Austin appeared to us like to be a very fast-growing uh cities we we have found beautiful offices and and the staff the staff we we very quickly um grow a team there we've got our biggest client in uh next to to uh to Austin uh smile doctors which is our biggest American client and so we decided what is your biggest American client what would you say the name was what's my doctors smile doctors oh smile doctors is your largest American clinic our American customer uh interesting but yeah you are so right for people that have to fly all the time and dentists don't live in airplanes like the traveling salesman does but um all four corners in the united states whether you're in seattle's or san Diego or the new York or Florida um and i mean three quarters of the pie is not America you know it just you know it's the four corners like a loaf of bread and if you have to service the whole country and fly around uh it's Chicago and Dallas and i mean that is that is the reason Chicago and Dallas and you went south of Dallas but you're so right i mean the the flights out of san Diego and san Diego still only lets them have one runway for noise pollution it's like uh my gosh it's terrible but um man glad to have you on the show that you are just crushing it um so to tell us your your journey how did you go from lingual orthodontics to um dental monitoring i think it's a natural way because you know when we did the harmony lingual system basically we were we were a very strong lab servicing uh afternoon easter all over the globe and and you know we were a very expensive uh customized appliance uh and and and one of my main issues when i received a call from a doctor telling me you know philly your plant is nice but why the tissues moving in that direction why this is happening and you in fact you can't say you can't say to a doctor yes doctor the problem is coming from this you you barely don't know the problem can come from the impression can come from the patient can come from the doctor can come from the lab most can come from many other situation so at that point i really realized that we will never be able to produce a perfect appliance but but if we can capture a problem early enough inside the process of a treatment a problem is not anymore a problem it's a quick fix and it's where comes the idea of of dental mediterrane it's basically when you when you don't see your patient it's at that particular moment that problems happen and if you capture the problem quick fix you see the patient at the right time then you are back on track and and that works when when we really created the company 2014 we came we speak to our uh to all our customers that we knew very strongly at that time we expressed the idea and we built the company it works pretty quickly and pretty well and um your lingual appliance was um the same market being tapped for invisalign or or clearless liners i mean they just didn't want it to show and you were you were on that early digital um ortholab so um so basically the um harmony uh you sold that to aso international orthodontic laboratory services in japan no uh so uh i sold my company at that time from American autonomics to ao um based in wisconsin and we're servicing the old globe and basically one of our strongest market was japan with aso and and later on American afternoon six sold the company to air so because the fast fastest growing market was japan wow it was me yeah and did you miss that market the uh the orthodontic market i mean the um well we we're we are still very strong in october autonomics it's still our first market um and we are servicing lingua lingual patients uh uh lots tons of liner patients uh and traditional racist patients and and and more and more now we are serving um general dentistry value um every field of of the the dentistry dentistry world so dentistry started in France i mean we were barber surgeons until pierre fishard um got rid of the barber part and uh it's just an amazing journey to where when i was in school i still was uh that was you know um i've been at school 32 years but um there was a dentist there who had graduated from dental school in 1927 and he was telling me that when he got out of school i was asking about the great depression he was telling me that when he got out of school they were all still outside barber surgeons and then 29 the stock market crashed the depression was 32 to 36 he said downtown st joe missouri basically all got boarded up and the real estate got so cheap that finally the dentist moved inside and dropped the barber and became the surgeon like pierre ferchard did a century earlier in France but it's it's amazing how these trends um pierre furchard didn't affect the world overnight it took it took a long time but I’m still old enough to know doctors that still practice outside um it's just we've come a long way baby i wonder what pierre furchard would say if he came back to life and saw what you were doing on dental monitoring he probably wouldn't even uh he probably wouldn't even recognize his own profession would he um so you know there is lots of you know there is lots of um of french technology which start in France and and scale in in us uh it's it's basically very very often the french problem you know we are good in inventing things but we don't know how to make business so we are very poor in business so so then come American people and then the boom they blow it up say this is the scale and they make it they make it very good for the market and um I’m I’m trying to prove prove this wrong for the first time I’m trying to to prove that also french entrepreneur can work in in the us and today us is our strongest market is more than half of ourselves so do do you feel do you really believe what you just said that that um that France really doesn't have as good of an entrepreneurial business culture you know they can invest very good entrepreneur to create things very often we've got you you should see that the startup environment in in France is is is amazing is is one of the strongest uh i think is the second or third place in the pla on the planet about a number of started created but the problem is very often uh at one point when it needs to be scaled uh like we very often see uh it needs to go to the to to us so very often french entrepreneurs move to us create their their headquarters in in the us and it's where it's where they perform and then to win training it's a bit the same again we created the company it works pretty well in europe and and it's and it it's explodes and it really grew very fast when we really opened the the us market well you know one of the things I’m flying around that i always used to train my boys um um is um the big mac index which was uh you know very popular among the economists and mbas and you know i wanted them to buy the big mac you know when we go to mcdonald's i would want to go there just to buy a big mac and only a big mac so they could see um the difference in uh purchasing power parity things like that but the other one was the crane index and they they um they they i i taught them that one time they never forgot i mean you go into some cities like uh like in cambodia and i mean you could count a hundred cranes out the window and then you go to a lot of the older countries uh like um in europe and you could fly into italy somewhere and not see a crane from the airport and it just makes you think why is why does a city in cambodia have a hundred cranes downtown and why does you know the rome not have any and um and it's also a great gauge on the economy because when they start taking down the cranes i mean you know it's contracting uh but let's uh jump into your dental um monitoring um what was the what was the the solution that you were seeing what were you seeing out there that that said okay this is what we got to do what problem are you solving the the problem we are solving is basically what is our mission what we wanted to to to try to to create it we wanted to really create an extension of the dental office we believe that dental offices should be focused on really clinical action like seeing the patient doing something actually inside the mouse all the rest check appointments motivation of the patient billing um [Music] recall and all the action which is around the the treatment as a clinical act and and then especially if you take autonomics for example which is check appointment which is a big part of the appointment can be done remotely and it happened to be even better for the treatment better for the for for the patient and this for multiple reasons the first reason is because you don't use your chair time for nothing it's the patient is coming when when today on the traditional afternoon six you receive a patient and you just check if everything is okay it's good but if there is nothing to do why the patient is on your chair if you can evaluate remotely that everything is good it's good for the patient they are very happy to not come and the doctor is also happy to not have a chair uh used for this the second aspect is really surprise you in medical world the surprise is on the enemy okay we sh we don't want to have any surprise coming to the clinic so what we created was with dental mentoring is certainty it means that whenever a patient come to your office you already know why is coming you already know the problem that you have to fix before they arrive so you don't have anymore this emergency feeling when a patient arrives they've got everything broken inside the mouse and you say oh why you did not call me and and i booked only five minutes for for you and now i have 40 to an hour work to do on you and and this now disappear when you have this situation you know it by advance you adapt your you adapt your workflow you adapt your day based on this uh this patient coming or you risk it over patient at an appropriate moment so you take out the surprise and you see your patient when you really need to see them and on certain uh certain type of appliances such as aligners this has an amazing fit why because from the beginning of the liner there is something which is troubling lots of doctors you we ask to patient to change a liner on weekly base before it was two weeks and it was ten days and it will weekly and some goes to three days but we all know this we want our patient to change a liner only when the aligner did the job right if the alignment don't do the job you don't want them really to do to change the liner so if you could have a system which helps you to drive this change of aligner if you could have a system who drives the the aligner the elastic where to drive the cooperation of the patient then then you are very proactive with the patient and with your treatment and these bring tons of efficiency reduction of appointment and patient engagement and it's why it's why we have been growing so fast and so um is that why strahman is the partner because back in august of uh 2017 which was a pre-pandemic millennium ago i mean who can even go back three years after this is that why um strawman um bought clearcorrect because it's obvious to me in the macro numbers that you know dentistry is a 200 year old industry starting where you're at and by the way i I’m still upset when i lectured there with all my boys the pierre fishard museum was closed for remodeling I’m like what so they're all like no worries dad we're gonna come back to Paris i have to see that museum so we went to the louvre and said but they um but the only the um and by the way they that's where the mona lisa is and that's the mona lisa is what everybody talks about oh my god that is the most boring part of the whole museum the museum is mind-blowing i mean they have they have paintings the size of a ping-pong i mean just huge paintings i mean it's just it was i i could spend a week in that museum it's just a walk-through you can and you should it's an amazing museum when you when you have the time and especially it's a perfect moment to go there because there is nobody so because there is nobody you can you can really sit in front of painting for hours and and you will not even be disturbed so it's pretty cool it's freaky to come back to your question about Stroman yeah it's uh in 2017 when sherman invested to us we we have spoken to most of the of of the big player of the dental industry and and we have get very very strong feedback from them that most of them were very interesting in partnering with us but they were one one critical condition we wanted to have in the deal we did uh with with a manufacturer we wanted a deal where we really truly stay agnostic means uh we wanted to say to the partner guys we need your we need your input in dental we need your funds um but we don't want to be driven to to monitor one specific uh one specific appliances or to drive doctors to one specific appliances and and why because this is completely antagonist to the concept of monitoring monitoring works and and believes by doctors until it's become it's say objective it needs to be unrelated to the appliance as soon as it's related to an appliance it's not objective it's mean that you can't you can't have the judge and and the and the and the and the lawyer in in the same in the same you need to have the two very separate so sherman was really pleased to this they needed to access from of some of our ai technology and and and they wanted to have access to this so we give them access to our ai technology but on the monitoring aspect on all our portfolio uh product they don't have any any drive on how we monitor patient we don't promote correct towards uh invisalign towards spark towards angela liners or any aligners or any appliances every of the plant is fully represented on our platform we don't do ads for anyone we stay fully independent and we will stay fully independent and that's very different than um align tech um uh line technology and itero i mean the the itero scan and the um the um invisalign uh they don't want to play with other uh scanners and other technologies it's more of a they decide to go with a closed system and is that why you're saying that you want to be an open system more like google and android as opposed to a closed system like a line technology an apple iphone uh first apple is an open system invisalign invisalign decided to be a closed system but but again i i i think it's it we should not be judge lawyer uh and manufacturing doing everything it's not good the dentist is should be the driver so we are monitoring solution so how come a dentist can select to monitor one invisalign patient one uh a spark patient and one um onco patient one a clear correct patient whatever he wants or hygiene patient and they use different monitoring solutions it doesn't make sense it it they will not have a five six workflow different for for monitoring patients and to create this virtual practice they need to have something which is compatible with everyone so we are just compatible with everyone it's just because the patient count not the not the technology that you are monitoring so um you you it basically sounds like it's um it's kind of uh three functions patient recruitment patient conversion and treatment monitoring so on your website if you go to dental you call that slash dental slash monitoring or you call it dental hyphen monitoring what do you call that dental dash monitoring.com okay dental dash monitoring.com i figured there was a fancy french word for it so i didn't know what that the fancy first word um but it says under patient recruitment says smile mate offers you the possibility to communicate with new patients and to screen their oral health all remotely from your website um generate new leads by integrating our ready to use plugin into your practices website as well as into google and social media ads initiate first patient contact increase your patient flow use our comprehensive ai generated reports of patients oral health to better recognize triage and book appointments with treatment recommendations and centralized and hipaa compliant communication channels for you and your patients centralize one place so just just by reading that this had to have a big boom because of covet i mean you started this before the pandemic um you obviously didn't know the pandemic was around the corner but was this a big gust of wind in your sails to had started a company uh talladega before it would be a lie to say that did not bring us big traction yes it had uh bring us a big traction we went from uh we pre-covered we we were having around 200 000 patients on the platform now we are more than half a million patient on the platform so yes we have grew fantastically because of covet so to speak about the different product we have smile made vision and dental maintenance everything is based on the same core engine which is our artificial intelligence engine why artificial intelligence it's because you can't scale without it it's no way you can triage your patient into your into your inborn funnel when you've got patient through your marketing leads and etc you you don't want to to have video call or taking picture manually for each of these patients it's too much time so we have created a system which gives you all this ability visual senior picture etc plug to an ai system which triage everything which basically solve everything creates based on your own settings a treatment recommendation and communication back to the patient fully automated through this artificial intelligence this is really how to acquire seamlessly patient without really involving too much the the dentist at that stage the second product is vision vision is to convert patient patient comes to your practice uh and and you want to give them more this is more a marketing tool this is you you want to give them a very nice simulation of their of their smile without cheek retractor all with cheek retractors they can see the progress inside you want to to show them the modality of treatment braces or liner or whatever this will create instantly a simulation of this and again using artificial intelligence because you can't do this you don't want to do any montage or powerpoint things it just appear on the modern platform which is designed for it and the last part which is the monitoring again patients are using our scanning services the scan themselves the the ai do the triage the detection of things and then there is a communication flow which is organized between the the clinic and the patient automatically and very very very robust which is very important as soon as you monitor lots of patients you can't imagine to not have a very strong ai behind otherwise you can't scale so dental monitoring vision and smile mate and dental mind that's all dental monitoring right the entity on the top of it so dental mind is a company which have three branches the first branches which is patient acquisition smile mate vision patient conversion and the last one which is the the monitoring aspect dental marine training interesting um so dental mind is the parent company and it's the parent of dental monitoring vision and smile mate but this is this is a historical reason because basically we created dental mediterrane the core product it works very well and then we we spin off the technology to other products and then at the end we were having dental monitoring and two other products and and and so we needed to put it into a a bigger umbrella which is then to mine yeah and I’m i think uh everybody is uh pro artificial intelligence because we've seen what natural intelligence does on earth and uh I’m uh i don't even know what ai's gonna bring but i i know what natural intelligence is so are you optimistic on um artificial intelligence because there are some really really smart guys um now granted they're old i have to admit that the guys saying this are phds that are 80 and older they'll say things like howard they've been talking about this since 1950 um they um um and i i had a uh so I’m asking is is it real or hype because like like here's something that confused me and I’m a dentist I’m not a programmer i can't write one um code but i am smart enough to know that a guy like you anybody who gets a PhD in biophysics i mean you know you start with math you know you that that's not marketing business and communication degree i mean math is just wow and then the first applied math is physics and i know for a fact that the people who understand math and physics are scale smarter uh than everyone uh on up i mean and there are some people who say that um you know it's a lot of hype like i noticed that um when my one-year-old boy my grandson gunner he touched the um the the we're having a fire outside and he touched it and he ripped his hand back and uh he never touched it again the whole 10 days i was there but artificial intelligence needs big data and big sets and they'd need like 10 million people to burn their hand before finally they realize untouchable and I’m sitting there thinking my god it's so true I’m thinking my one-year-old child or grandchild is smarter than a.i so i mean is it something that's 50 years away 100 years away is it is it bleeding edge leading edge or do you think it's really here today and is finding applications today in 2020 so so so so basic yes it's finding application you you imagine we are screening half million patient every week you scale it so if we are scaling this is screening so many patients there is no way that after you can't have artificial intelligence we detect we detect a broken bracket broken wire poking wire uncity the liner missing buttons and stuff like this and we do this we've got today from far on the scale which is probably 100 fold more than even invisalign probably the biggest database on earth we we we collect hundreds of millions of images every single week because when we scan a patient we take more than 50 picture every time this can so you imagine that this database yes as you say you we need millions of times the kid burning his his finger into it how we did we were just lucky enough to have people who have trust us we were lucky enough to have sold the company harmony to have sufficient funds to really pay for three years pay for three years people to click and learn click and learn click and learn on hundreds of million of images that we have captured offer the product for three years to capture sufficient data then which bring us to we have used machine learning deep learning again gan or other type of artificial intelligence and to build this automation so so today yes i believe that artificial intelligence it's it's it's there and it's useful now we should kill lots of myths there is lots of hype around this but we did not go into artificial intelligence because it's it's just because we knew that without artificial intelligence there is no way that you can scale this business but now let's not confuse artificial intelligence can't ramp replace a human it means that if you if you input your artificial intelligence with stupid things the output will be stupid so so it's why we've got i think we've got like 30 30 orthodontists in our payroll which are working to make what we call validation to check that always artificial intelligence are giving good results and we pull out thousands of cases every month to check that there is no deviations and so on on our results and and it works and it just gives a result but it's a lot of investment it's a lot of investment um i and I’m reading other applications in healthcare like um you know you're on your uh your iphone and it you do that face what is it called facial recognition technology and now they're they're measuring the pupils so they can i mean they're starting to really measure a lot do you think um do you think this smartphone's going to start detecting a lot more health measurements lots of things tons of things are coming in in dermatology in for for eye eye detections um eye disease detections there is a very interesting technology where by screening your eyes you detect that you've got some kidney problems by some discoloration of your of your of your eyes just using artificial agent i i believe in artificial intelligence but i believe that it will it will always and it will stay a complement of the human it will never replace human because because at the end of the story you need someone who take the actual decision would take the actual uh risk on on the clinical decision and and there is big failure also in in artificial intelligence lots of uh of um of company having been investing billions of dollars into uh into a artificial intelligence for detection of cancer and stuff like this and the trust was not there and and so it took so many years to penetrate market and they are still very far what is good with with with with uh with dental it's the market is ready the market is asking it and the result is there so i think yes we've got good years in front of us and um when you say ai again we're dentists over here we're not um is that um python programming is that you know a lot of dentists are asking about their their kids i mean you know if ai is the whole future would you steer your kid into learning python is that going to be the language of ai or not really so it's it's i think thank you word i think the first time that somebody asked me this actual very precise question so there is programming in general okay and and then when you speak about artificial intelligence is it's you use what we call frameworks of artificial intelligence there is a lot of frameworks google have created these on frameworks and and and there is a lot of frameworks frameworks are environment of development where you will feed this environment with data and it will help you to create artificial intelligence for dm we had to play another way because they were nothing really ready for us to to to to to do the artificial intelligence that we wanted we could not use just the google framework and and so on why because we are doing artificial intelligence in the 3d environment and on the 2d environment and most of the of the of the artificial intelligence was just on the 2d environment so one of the biggest investments that we have done was to create our own framework of artificial intelligence which make us pretty unique on the planet to really combine uh 2d and 3d deep learning capacity and do this artificial intelligence now the code that is using the actual uh coding language there is python java there is c uh there is a traditional uh language used in any type of of of the of programming huh that is uh that is amazing um you know i was talking to a guy the other day and i was saying you know they always say in night in 1880 80 of the planet was illiterate and couldn't read or write and i thought to myself well from 1880 the next 50 years one of the greatest gross of a of human history and when uh so these illiterate people that couldn't read or write did pretty damn good for being illiterate but it was just one skill they didn't have and i would you can would you compare when they're talking about um 1880 where 80 percent of planet couldn't read or write kind of to 2020 where 80 of the planet can't write a single line of code math is a language of science english is the official language uh between scientists it used to be german until world war ii um would you would you say that if you're not trilingual in english um math and a computer language that you're kind of illiterate um i i i think it's a it's uh so so there will be i think uh we are playing the futuristic yeah futurist um there will be uh for the next 20 years a big need in developers a very very big need so yes it might become a certain language that is like every kids will be learning and and and and you will have to um to to learn but we see more and more you you hear me say the word the word framework and framework make development more and more accessible to people where there is where there is tools and and and when what we call in in compute in development design pattern means piece of code which pre-exists library of code which pre-exists and help you to code pretty quickly and so i think for the next 20 years to be hardcore developer coding and etc will still grow a lot and in 20 years from now i think you will be more designing an idea and there will be solutions or software itself which will be by themselves creating the program that you that reflect your ideas so there will be program of programming that do things for you and you you will just have to express your idea on the more far more easy way um you you sit in a very interesting place um um of the global dental market and i've uh i think the reason people love architecture and art and all this stuff is because you got the same human doing the same thing and they do it so many different ways i mean i don't care if it's just something as simple as a shower i'll never forget the shower i showered in in um in austria i mean it looked like it was engineered for like the space shuttle i mean it had so many knobs and valves and i just thought to myself holy moly they made the biggest mountain out of a moell but it's just cool looking at the variants what types of variances do you see in the dental industry um around the world i mean you got offices um all over the place i mean my gosh where are your offices you got them in Austin London Paris Hong Kong Sydney um what what is what is the variances that stand out in your mind uh looking around the world like that so i i think more than our offices we operate in more than 30 countries we've got uh salespeople in more than 20 um but what what we what we see and this is absolutely amazing and we work already with university but i really invite every manufacturer university every dentist if you really is there it's got an interest into this because we see how doctors treat patients all across the globe we see that there is very different patel i can assure you a japanese doctor is not treating the same way that he's doing a french doctor or a german doctor or an American doctor i don't say that there is any good or bad but there is lots of philosophy and at the end the only goal is the the patient perception and how the patient as a patient feel about about his treatment but us on dm we see this because we monitor patients on a weekly basis so we see this different we see the different techniques the different approach different communication scheme that they use for japanese doctor or for for australian doctors and it's very interesting so i really would like to invite university to dig into our data and and without branding we will take any branding of course because we don't want to promote any any company and to really take the core of what are the different philosophy which perform more or less and and to to feed the the community with us i think would be great to use the data the data that we have leveraged since six years now and and to give this knowledge and to do lots of publication we start but it's pretty new uh this business intelligence and clinical intelligence that tm can can provide i think there is a great future so thank you for asking me this question because i think uh it gives me the opportunity to truly say to people please don't hesitate to to contact dental mentoring and really to build with this project of of learning from our data sets so i i noticed you i mean you i i contacted you you didn't contact me again to my homies out there this is my hobby there's not money uh how much money did you give me to come on the show today to zero no you didn't get the memo you're supposed to bring send me a case of red fancy french wine but i i contacted you i will because i i no i started noticing i'll just give an example i'll call out um one of my homies um um dabney orthodontics i mean you know i see this on um orthodontist websites the most where you go on their um their website um here's the case on drdabney.com he's an orthodontist and it says right there technology dental monitoring and then he says uh so i what i was getting at is i see this mostly i i became aware of it mostly in orthodontics um and after the covet but it says with it says on his website with the dental monitoring app for your smartphone you can now send pictures or video using a mouth prop for virtual appointments what is dental monitoring this is the world's first monitoring solution in orthodontic care your smartphone is able to capture tooth movements and relay them to your orthodontist your orthodontist is able to communicate any concerns with treatment straight to your phone benefits of our practice offering dental monitoring faster treatment times fewer appointments required closer monitoring of hygiene alerts the office of potential issues but would you say it's most it started out as mostly an orthodontic play because you started in lingual orthodontics and i just noticed it on orthodontist websites mostly of course there is multiple reasons for this the first is my background is from autos my friend are from auto i've got most of my friends are autonomous um and and there is there is a something also which is which which is very core into our technology is we are a true differentiator today doing doing aligners is not anymore a differentiator for an orthodontist there is not many techniques now that are really appearing like being a differentiator as everybody do a liner so dental monitoring was really the next step is growing your clinic was really the next step that you you bring in an auto clinic which you bring a new services which is truly disruptive which is truly changing your workflow your the values that you offer to the to the to the to the to the patient but you will ask why you need again to be to be to differentiate yourself it's because the the world of automatics have changed a lot with the dtc market with the direct consumer market and there is this big movement into dtc and uh and the autonomous feel absolutely threatened by the fact that this dcc were taking a lot of market share so they needed to react and they reacted by offering even more services even being more close to the patient and dental monitoring is is probably the best tool for this okay well i got to tell you um that um you got to say hi to bill that's that's bill uh the orthodontist dr dabney is his name's uh dr c william dabney but he goes by bill so shout out to bill i know him personally oh you know him personally yeah yes i know him personally he's a great friend of me um is a great guy um is is an early adopter of dm he has been working with him i think since now five years um i i i love the gentleman he's really a gentleman we we very have some some some call very often have some calls where he gave me his impression where we are going is it good is it wrong what we should do for the next move etcetera i really value a lot the guy um i want to go back to the direct consumer because um you know there's an honest question that i get asked and we we i we have to come up with the best answer i mean it looks like as far as you know when you do a competitive analysis i mean you know dentists um my gosh they they have a meltdown if they get a bad yelp review these dsos they they get write-ups by big magazines attacking them and you know i mean i i don't think there's any dentists that ever cried on a yelp review that could even live through something like that but the orthodontist my god they're getting attacked from um direct to consumer smiles direct club all this technology you um got four kids um we both have four kids so we're equally insane crazy um if your kid was looking at the 12 specialties in dentistry he was coming out of dental school he's looking at the 12 specialties would you say i wouldn't go into ortho man that's going to be like going in the jungle i mean that that's that's the most brutal place i will say go there you know what look my partner william which is uh he was my early investor in harmony he is my investor into dm don't believe you've got six kid you got six kids and he's pushing them to dentistry and he's pushing them in orto okay uh is is a a medical doctor himself and we believe i believe in orthodontics more than ever smile direct club and and and like of course they are a disruption but they they grow the market it's just a fact now after years we have seen that the automatic market have grown tremendously and that everybody is basically leveraging the marketing dollar and it generates more leads to even to to to to to orthodontist the the automatic market has been growing six seven eight percent every year since I’m into the industry that never slowed down maybe this year was covered it's pretty bizarre period so i can't know the number yet but but i don't i don't see them really at the actual thread they are a perceived threat but they are not an actual threat to to to autonomous the population will still want to have doctors at the end of the story and you see something very interesting you see that they are all going to to there we have seen a line going to the gtc sector and we are seeing the ddc sector going to uh to to the to the professional channel so i think it will be coming more and more confused but the market the pie is growing tremendously so I’m I’m really pushing my kids to go to dentistry and and especially to autonomics and the other thing i mean you know i mean you don't have to be charles darwin to figure out that the you know the number one goal of the species is to survive long enough to reproduce i mean um you know you go back a thousand years i mean people always talking about everything that went wrong in history and it's like you you do know that they did their job because we're here talking about it you know you know we go extinct and um to be as pretty as a peacock i mean when it goes into the uh the mating uh rituals and how they want to look and um it's so non-dental and it's so just beauty and i i was amazed looking at the numbers when i was lecturing in china um how much the women were spending 40 of their disposable income on health and beauty and makeup and just things to make them look pretty and um and the other thing in ortho and asia which i couldn't even believe but um the intense um focus on um you know they put their nose from their their finger from their nose to their chin and if their lip touches their uh their finger it's out too far and they need to you know do canine extraction pull their teeth back but all I’m trying to say is this is a market that will never go away because the species number one goal is to attract a mate and they will literally do anything to increase their game theory chances of landing a mate i mean do you agree with that yeah i i completely agree with that the the the dentistry is a 500 billion dollar market one of the biggest market on the planet and it will continue to grow because awareness quality of life is really depending on how you feel about yourself and the smile is one of the most important reflection of your of your of your good feeling and and and and i love to smile i want to see my kids smiling so my kid if they've got any uh dental issues i will make sure that they they get fixed and and all parents will like this and now what is really the specificity if we come back to the dtc world the ddc will have been offering to patients the convenience and the cheap okay orthodontists are offering the quality now that with dental mentoring you can offer the convenience and the quality because you can say to your to your patient you know what you come to me because you want a quality treatment you want to supervise treatment with a dental professional that is really doing stuff for you but you want the convenience to and the convenience is not coming to my office every month or every two months it's coming whenever it's actually necessary only when needed and this is what we bring on the table the second patient patient lead generation dentist have to fight on the same level in terms of digital marketing etc and so if they don't use tool to do it then they can't compete so smile mate is a tool for them to compete to put spend the marketing dollar and through smile made not not giving us marketing dollar no but using the tool to manage this these leads and to leverage them at max so we give them the tool to bring back the convenience and the patient flow that the dtc is using today and and we bring them to the we bring them to their offices and where do you recommend on the um um to um on your website um to bring call this out um you know to make it alive is it when you go to click a uh click to schedule a complimentary exam and is that when you recommend that they um you know uses teledentistry or so so so what happened if you take if you take most of our users what they do most of the time for example they say most of the ortho i know or dentist i know do digital marketing company okay and they will do okay do you want to know better about you do you know what to do do you want to know more about your smile do you want to do a virtual consultation do you want to to see if you're if you're if you're suitable to this type of treatment etc and what they do is when they do this ad on facebook instagram tic toc guys invest into tic toc it's crazy we've got some some client which i push them to invest into tick tock and if that hundred of thousands of followers look tik tok dock the tick tock dock for example you've got like 600 half a million follower already uh and they put the banners which adds this virtual call and patient click on it now it's why you need artificial intelligence patient click on it and you've got shoppers at that stage they are not patient at all they are really digital marketing leads so they are very cold leads and and as they go through the funnel they do their scans they they get this report generated automatically by ai there is a doctor which can just click oh I’m agree about this uh this report and send back to the send back to the patient an actual pretty accurate and and comprehensive report and treatment proposition but now what is what is great is you can do it at scale if you want to take all these marketing needs which are pretty pretty crappy in general and you want to spend too much time on it you're not spending good time here but if you've got this artificial intelligence triaging you doing all the job for you and just you need to check and and click and boom then when when it's actually becoming a more hot lid then you you you really start to invest time with this patient then you start to compete with gtc which are spending hundreds of million of dollars into this and then you need to offer them the conveniency of of the of the tele-dentistry and is what dental monitoring comes into into play patient you know what i will be the doctor your doctor in the park i will be there 52 time every year to check if your treatment is progressing well and i will ask you some time to come at the clinic to make some actual needed adjustment refinement uh rebounding or whatsoever and this is really quality of care every single week they have a check and doctor needs to interact with these checks only when needed which is really the value well but um so um which which kind well first of all um you said and you said the word invest i mean i i know my homies are thinking okay how much is this come on Phillip how much is it is it a million a billion and as um so how much is this and what is it what would you do how much does it cost and is something you download to plug into your iphone is it an app talk about cost and implementation of course so we we've got uh all across the globe we've got what we call implementation specialist and and account manager so they work in teams the the for the smile mate is 250 dollar per month uh unlimited usage on your on your an website there is a limit but nobody reached the limit it's why i said limited usage because we needed to put a limit that just that we don't have a factory putting everything into one account so it's one account the doctor it's 250 dollar and basically they get their leads and they manage it then you've got the monitoring part which is a patient uh so basically the patient can scan as much as you need it's same price and it's roughly eight dollar payments per patient so we say eight dollar per active patient so across the treatment if you take 10 minutes of treatment you will pay 80 for patient if you take 20 minutes you will pay 160 dollar per treatment so it's really proportionate to the difficulties of the of the treatment which makes sense because if you you normally an authorities will quote longer treatment more expensive and shorter treatment less expensive um so um do you think the the um the price is a barrier to entry or is that a a non-issue i mean it's it's it's actually the roi is so so big we've got an average of 40 appointment reduction 40 appointment reduction so so just just one appointment covers the cost the ppe by itself look guys you just take how much do you spend in ppe every time you see a patient coming to your practice how much five ten bucks in ppe just I’m just speaking with the ppp I’m not speaking with all the rest every time you do a virtual consult with with us with this automatic automation and screening and so on you pay you spend nothing so just on the ppe it it covers the cost now if you take on reduction of chair time if you take on the convenience for the patient also this is great and and also lots of doctors use us for post treatment monitoring retention whereas they say when they say to the patient you know what for one or two or three or four years um we will have flat fee every year that we for 400 for example will money continue to monitor you to see if everything stays stable etc and if there is any problem we will we will fix it but the rules is until you scan if you scan you're protected if you don't scan it you decide to go out from the system so now I’m not any more responsible this is an actual very strong new revenue for for for autonomous because imagine every new patient generating an additional 400 per month a per year sorry on the top of what they were they were charging it's it's pretty great so so we believe that the cost is literally not an issue otherwise we will not have grown so much um [Music] compared to the quality and and the completeness of the services we offer um another thing about ortho i want to remind the the kids about is you know like i was born in 62 and back then families were so much larger back then i think that the average American family had four and a half kids uh we both have four um and now it's dropped to you know two it's gotten out but it used to be the most messed up child who could never get married who looks like they could eat corn on the cob to a chain-link fence got got saved you know just one child and now it's like a rite of passage like every you know when you only have two kids and a stronger economy every kid gets where though but they seem to be getting him young at the pediatric with uh space uh rapid palatal expanders again in high school with the orthodontist and then after their first divorce you know they go get fixed up again but it looks like uh ortho is um especially with clear aligners um almost everybody is gonna start getting ortho and it's gonna be affordable and they're not just gonna get it once uh they're gonna get it twice maybe three times uh i i think the the market for orthodontics is just mike i think it's explosive it is explosive um it's uh we we see it we we just see it but we we see we see it on on the usage of dental maintenance where we see our age groups where obviously there is still more kids doing uh teens doing uh doing auto but the adult group uh is pretty is pretty amazing and you know what our access is called i will send you our partition of age group and you will see a funny bump at 30. so there is really this this big bump 14 years which is the stop of the curve then there is slow down up to our oldest patient is something like 70 or 80 but it's very small numbers of course and at 30 exactly is a year certainly not 29 or 31 at 30 there is a little amp like this and it's and it seemed that at 30 people say oh my god what my life is happening should i should i fix myself and then when we get older 40 15 oh okay never mind i've got a bad smile but never mind I’m good um or i i don't want to ask this question because i'll be admitting to something illegal but i was on orthotown the other day only because i owned the website but I’m not allowed to go you're not allowed to go on there unless you're an orthodontist and that's cool you know whatever they want to do but uh i noticed one of my uh orthodontic idols a friend that i've had on the show um he um barry glasser um he talked about that back in november 29th again that scene seems like a seems like a century ago november 2019 and uh you know i can still remember around christmas um you know sitting around and listening to music and you you're hearing these stories about this virus in china and uh oh my gosh but anyway this was the month before that so no one probably remember but um he said um when they asked him let's talk about your uh top products um dental monitoring was uh number one i mean he just loves those stuff um my god so so first barry is a great guy is a is a great clinician is a good friend also becoming good friends through through our relation um and and and and we have now created a community of of fans uh using gm we how we did this is basically because we have been created with with autonomous you have to know that more than 100 automotives have invested money into dm more than 100 have invested pretty significant amount of money by the way more than 20 million dollars just the orthodontist and into dm to grow this technology because they knew that this technology will help them to really go to the next level um barry is not one of them he's not an investor into interdental mentoring but very early he believes in the concept of of of remote monitoring become a heavy user and now he is one of our kls and educator around the principle of monitoring and so on and i think he's a fan he became a fan of of the dental mentoring very quickly by seeing what what kind of happiness he bring to his patients yeah he is a uh amazing guy and uh yeah and i also love his eyes he's this gorgeous bold guy with the two big earrings he's got that music people are amazing right i know do you think there's something that us two bald guys love barry the bald guy but he he's a much fan when you when you do those earrings uh do you did you ever see the mr clean commercials i mean i didn't know i don't know if they really had those in France really yeah i mean does he not look like mr clean i mean that is just yeah he looks like mr clinton it is [Laughter] we we've got a series of i've got some a series of very close friend you know in australian tics and and he's one of them yeah and uh yeah he's just a great guy um my gosh so um i was wondering the um the culture in um in France and europe do you do you think the direct to consumer market uh what do you call that market direct what do you call it the this is you like to consumer direct to consumer the same in english dtc do you call d d t c is that what you call that d or d direction consumer market uh let's find the right club called gtc direct consumer market oh oh dtc is what you're saying dtc do you think there'll be a lot more regulatory pressure when you're an American it kind of seems like um um that um the united states is a little too regulatory lacks a little more wild west and europe kind of has a more regulatory deal do you think they'll curb direct to consumer orthodontics or do you think the genie's out of the bottle you're not going to put this thing back with all the advancements in ai and technology the technology will catch up with the uh being seen by an orthodontist in the office or where do you think this is going um very good question um gtc is going to happen everywhere there will be market where it will come last but it will still come a country where it would come last will be probably a country like germany France uh italy where our regulatory bodies are very very conservative and protective and very protective to the profession sometimes sometimes too much which creates some bizarre thing which really the industry cannot really progress but but it will come in in europe of course your u.s is is i would not say leading in this environment in this particular question i will not say leading uh for for the but is open is opening new vision uh is very often the case of us but a remark that u.s is very often the first to correct himself it's it's you know it's for us it's it's a it's a um it's now a french guy speaking it's not really an an American I’m I’m more new as a team in France but it's really my french spirit speaking when you see when when you look at a politician in in France or when you see the media when you see the the the the the press and the culture in France we are very conservative in general and and we we we don't really uh crit self-criticize ourselves what is really for me always amazing in the in the American culture you can do things that we can't understand but in the opposite way you admit it you you admit that okay we are doing crazy things but we are okay with it and we will correct it us we don't accept our mistakes it does not exist you know we put them under the carpet and it does not exist you it's why you are so strong in the u.s it's because you have this ability to self-criticize yourself you you've got these cultures where where you you critique your own government your own systems it really it's like you're part of your culture and it's how you progress because people are self-critic far more in u.s than they are in europe now if we come back to the to the dental environment i think it's pretty much the same i think autonomous dentists in us are capable of adapting technology far quicker but to drop them also far quicker they realize when a technology is not working does not worth the calorie they just drop them in europe will take more time but when we stick to a technology even if it's not great we stick we stick with it for a long time a lot of americans um you know haven't gone around the world and a lot of them are are still in dental school listening to but uh to just give you some examples of some shocking variants around the world that you might not think about i remember clear back in 1998 i came out with my 30-day dental mba it was a big 30-day vcr program and uh now uh you can go to youtube just put in a dr fran's 30-day dental mba it's still it's still watch download it even on itunes like a thousand times a month but um kid dennis were listing that all around the world and they actually got arrested in romania and Hong Kong i'll never forget the calls because neither me nor that poor dentist in Hong Kong i mean you just think you see all these other people advertising and my god they started doing what i was recommending in advertising and it was illegal in 1998 i mean um when you talk about conservative i mean there's places in canada where my gosh i mean it's just it's uh there's still a lot of conservative areas around the world oh yeah and i can give you a literal example i have lived myself with harmony for example before dental monitoring so we were selling harmony all across the globe and so it's digital orthodontics it's uh you we have an equivalent of clean check where their autonomous is looking at the case validating the setup and so on u.s europe were pretty similar we we designed the setups we send them through a software they check it validate it communicate with with the technician and and we produce the case japan you will not believe what i will say for every single case we designed the case we print the setup and they were a dental technician going to the office of the of the of the doctor showing the model having a discus discussion with the the the actual the after notice say no no this is another occlusion and i want to try and say no nothing digital we had all the platform no no they wanted to have those things into the end and for big customers we were sending technicians to their clinic to have them approve the setup can you can you imagine the difference in terms of adopting technology and they were our biggest lingua customer and they were the biggest in volume from far by far well i um and now there's a lot of other companies well would like like say candid i mean there's there's uh um my gosh i mean i it seems to me that there must be 40 different clear aligner companies out of the gates as soon as those patents went extinct i mean there were so many um do you think any of those are going i mean obviously um align technology's invisalign is the mcdonald's um who's gonna be the burger king in the wendy's and the uh in an album already they are already the dental mentoring we work with more than 20 aligner company across the globe there is lots of alternatives today on the planet um some are working very well some are less working good and and and i will not jump as dental injury to criticize any of them because it's really as i said from the very very early beginning we are agnostic platform and we have one rules it's we never promote or critique a technique so there is alternative we've got more than 20 type of aligners inside the system that which is compatible with gm and with artificial intelligence of the end a line of course is the biggest player of the planet but but you're you're working with 20 clear aligner companies right now more than 20. oh my gosh and do you think um this is 2020 do you think in 25 how many do you think there will be so it's exactly what happened for prices there will be a a big growth of number of of a liner company probably if another 20 will come and then there will be a big collapse in terms of number of companies because the quality will be the first main driver so the quality the consistency the the supply chain the pricing the offer and the one which will be the the ones which will be uh capable of offering the best of this will survive and the rest will die uh so at the end of the story i think it's like braces company probably between 10 to 15 online company on the on the planet will share the will share the market um i want to um try to get your feet to the fire on invisa i want to see if you um agree with this but you know you don't always understand why things happen but you recognize a pattern i'll never forget uh when i was uh young um you know um siemens owned um sirona and their CEO thought it was overweight in healthcare whatever they spun it off but the building didn't move it was still in austria but it was almost like um the kids left home and went to college and the morale was high they weren't micromanaged and my god their next 20 years was explosive and then and then just accumulated with them they got married to a dense fly and you know they're just big and they're high tech and they have a clear aligner I’m sure smile uh do you think that's um the second most major player behind uh invisalign do you think uh because of all you know they're they're uh owned by you know dense fly sirona do you is that a big horse to to deal with yes i i think dennis play ceramics doing a great job with their liners as uh as much as uh spark is a is a great is a great competition competitor and is doing great job um uh clearcorrect is keeping up and and and progressing investing a lot there is in china there is angel aligner which is which is doing a great job to uh invisalign which is everywhere on the planet and and and and continue to make innovation and works very hard to bring to people as his good attitude and you know I’m saying I’m saying this knowing that the the these guys wants to to invest into monitoring also so but I’m not a friend because i believe that i believe that the market will recognize quality and and and and and completeness of offering and what we what we do is is is compatible with everyone and we don't want to tighten doctors to any 20 20 um 20 yeah right and that's called channel conflict so you kids watching it you know it's it's it takes a bold man uh to be able to critique you know his his his partners his customers i mean it's tough but where i was going with that siemens uh where they spun off um you know sirona and it just exploded after the uh deal I’m kind of seeing the same painter with dan or her where they sp they decide they didn't want to be in dental so they spun off their whole dental and invista on that which included noble bio care kavo ker and ormko and so i i I’m thinking amir uh is a really smart guy and so do you are you kind of thinking that um danahers uh or the invista holding is gonna um kind of be like siemens where it will have explosive growth because i mean could you imagine being okay but i think i think it has been a great move probably the reason there is a reason of doing this is a very pragmatic valuation move because dental industry is very very highly valued for stock market so so to be tied to something else which is globally the multiple are less than what we can observe in in um in dental was was not uh making sense so they spin it out as as soon as the size of it was sufficient and i think it was a great decision for them in terms of the shareholder value now so just to recap you're saying medical shares were trading at a higher multiple than dental shares no the dental shares are traded very high very i look look a line a line is very close to 500. yeah so so you're saying that um they spun off because the the multiples of the rest of the company down here were so different than the dental yes and the dental was actually higher it's my it's my vision and now uh hey come on no no it's it's a standard nba deal i mean um i i mean i've i've watched shine i've watched stan bergman to shine do this literally 60 times in my life if and what what that means is if you're um if your stocks trading in a multiple of 10 and your company has a dollar earnings if he buys your company his company is now worth ten dollars more so if he buys your company for anything under 10 um if he buys it for five he just doubled his money by buying your company so um the stock market multiple is everything and when you got a high multiple you can buy cheaper companies knowing that um say ebitda earnings for interest depreciation taxes amortization if if i buy you at ebitda five and my stock's trading at a multiple of ten my god I’m just gonna do mergers and acquisitions all day long and that's why stan bergman's done 60 of them plus i've lost count so um but but still though i i wonder if um just being alone and free uh within vista um you just think they'll have more freedom to innovate and try things i think they will have much more freedom to innovate i think it's a great decision indeed it's it's it brings more value for the shoulder is bringing more independence to the management to the operation they even spin off and then a spark from onco recently so so to even to give to the aligner uh company even more freedom to a prank and more fountains and so on and so on so i i think in vista is moving in the rain emir is doing a great job is doing he's literally doing a great job for for his company my gosh again i don't have any contract with any one of them I’m working with every one of them because I’m we are we are accepting the treatment on the platform but they are not paying us and we are not paying them on anything as we don't with any any company yeah um that is a uh amazing uh well my gosh i um i i asked you for an hour what time is it there by the way it's 5 30 p.m here what time is it there 1 30 a.m oh my god did you stay up just for me yes we split up I’m working 16 hours a day so yeah uh well i just um thank you so much for coming on the show um it was just an honor when you uh when i got the email from he said yeah you come on the show i was like yeah that's all i was so happy and uh um love love what you're doing and um uh last final question um the pandemic i mean it obviously exploded telemedicine i mean gosh on dental town i don't think anybody ever talked about it until independent now it's just you know it's it's everywhere you can't you can't go anywhere um do you think there's a vaccine around the corner do you think this pandemic is coming to an end with a fancy high-tech vaccine or do you think that's um pretty pie in the sky and that will be with us all at 2021 so so uh two answers two level in my answer about this um yes a vaccine will be coming uh in uh in in one one year i think in ten in in reality okay there is lots of announcements and stuff and uh but as a biophysician i can tell you that government will not put a massive load of vaccine with and and can take the risk of big problems without proper testing and proper securing things and so on and so on so i believe that mass mass access to vaccine will be um between july and september next year uh which is already in over-performance all the performance from anything we have seen um in the history of of of medical and and we have to thank all this company kaiser astrazeneca uh sanofi and so on who have done a great job and making great money also uh to to to to help us on this now on the tele-dentistry side um i would say before before covered we we were nice to have an answer of the patient experience an extension of the virtual practice now dental mentoring become a must-have in lots of dental practices because it will stay even if you take out the coverage the new generation of patient will not want to come as much as they were they wanted in the past to come into the clinic so please adapt it's for you there is now more and more talent industry company coming to the party we are from far and with no arrogant the most relevant because we've got the most experience on it and we work since six years on this on this domain and it's not an easy task you don't invent yourself in two or three months or six months to become a comprehensive complete solution on the daily dentistry and we wish every dentist to really equip themselves with the appropriate level of access to patients remotely it's important for them i think the kovid will come every year the the if it's not the covet they need it to differentiate themselves they need to to scale the clinic and it's the new trend it's like i would say I’m sorry to compare this to to this to this it's like you remember 20 years ago people were saying oh amazon going to die online shopping ah it's going to die some shops were doing online shoppings then some shop where having less and less store and having more and more online shopping and then even now shops have only showrooms and lots of shoreline shopping and now we see that the biggest shops are just online they don't even have any showrooms so what I’m telling you is people can blind their eyes but the remote access of care is happening we have seen this massive massive merger in u.s with a 40 billion dollar um valuation of teledoc this is happening to dental so dental monitoring is one of the players probably the biggest today we are the biggest uh for sure uh today and will remain the biggest for for for four years i hope but this is coming it is going to stay it's going to grow and adopt it we'll be there to help you we've got a tremendous team of 300 people to serve you and to help you to grow so then if teledoc i mean back to that stock multiple if teledoc called you today um would it be an exit strategy i mean what is your exit strategy one plus one equals three um so it's a good question uh so so so you know we have been investing more than 100 million dollar into dm already with the founders and nvcs and stuff like this and doctors uh we had received multiple time offers to be buy out but it it's not it's not it's it's it's not the strategy of the founders we have both the boss funders we have sold companies prior uh so we are okay and and there is something very deep in us you can't sell twice your dream you can't access twice to something a new market we have created a market we have a dream in front of us i've got a beautiful family i've got a beautiful house beautiful life i want to live my dream up to the end so if i if i can be one of the top player of dental in the next two to five years and make all the work invest all the money i can to do it i will do it and I’m not I’m not going to sell my dream just for for for for millions of dollars now it does not make sense in my spirit I’m still young I’m still 40 and and again you can't sell twice your dream so i want to enjoy the ride i i want to enjoy the ride or i i want to ask i want to buy dental tone you will say no i love i am not doing this for money and I’m doing this to to meet clever people to speak to them to know to know new things and so on this is the same for for us most of the people that have joined the company i've made tremendous career already we have welcomed a recently um a great great great great guide from the dental industry from him i would not even have guessed one day that i would be able to hire a guy like this frankie was one top management of one of the biggest dental company and decided to come to work for us not for the money for the for the road trip for the road trip to success to build this giant market that we have in front of us so well it sounds like i said earlier that you and i each have four babies and obviously i was wrong we each have five i mean our companies are babies exactly and thank you i just want to give you one piece of advice in your darkest moment is uh remember when you want to take all four of your children and drown them that someday my four children have made me six grandchildren and the grandchildren are even better than the children so remember don't stay remember you will have some funko now come on back what can you say so when you want to give up and throw away your kid don't worry they're going to make grandkids the grandkids are even better but you're right it's the journey it's the fun and um that's the way it is is a great company you you should come you should come to the company to see the spirit of the people the the the you know we we are not sharks we we are true lovers about what we do the the the the ambience people that we recruit we just love what we do it's just uh it's just you know it maybe it might be bizarre or a bit colic but we we just love what we do and there is no way that people will stop us from doing what we do no i'll come back but this time I’m not getting in the airplane until i already know the pierre fuschiard museum is back open they were doing this big remodel and when i was there also um something if you have uh next time you're talking to a corporate lawyer i the pier fishard's book needs to be a book online but no one will do it with pierre for chart or gv black because they don't know who owns who owns the the material and I’m like dude it's 200 years old uh but i think it would be so cool to have an audio book for free on your website uh pierre furchard's book and then a hundred years later gv black because i bought uh the first three books by gb black autographed and sign and a lot of times when dentists are get frustrating they don't realize that the smartest guy a century ago was drilling holes above the root to let the evil spirits out and then when he was drawing the evil spirits of course they looked all like the court jesters and the of the time but it just really makes you be more optimistic when you say wow that's a really smart guy but they didn't they didn't read his book and i wish um i wish somebody could get past the lawyers I’m I’m ready to just sit down and read gb black books and do audio but my lawyer said nah you can't do that and when i was in France i said i mean i couldn't find a single french dentist who even knew who owned the rights that but that book needs to be read and captured in audio because the the new generation they'll do it if it's audio book or a podcast or whatever send me a send me a send me a a a link i will do a post on my on my on my on my networks i don't have a personal access to a i don't know 40 000 density subscribers on your direct link team it's like 45 i see it's like amazing i've got thousand but not as much as you but i will still transfer them the link and and we'll push it i see i think it's a great uh we should do this far more yeah because if you know when you're caught up in the day sometimes you can think you know what what's wrong with the world but when you look at it every century just flipped through the pages you can see the trajectory is awesome growth i mean sometimes it's two steps forward one step back but man just going from step from pierre fisher to gv black to today holy moly dentistry is like a rocket headed to mars it's rockets dense market is as you know come on we are lucky to be there we are working and we give we give smile to people come on is it not a cool thing we give smile to people is there a big risk no come on let's be serious there is no massive risk on life straightening risk so you give as much value than than certain medical uh procedure a value to the life of people with less risk on the top of it the technology is just starting so far an engineer like me a a researcher like me so there is you give smile there is not so much risk and there is a lack of technology so there is so much room for me like you compare the dental world today to some neurology or cardiology i can assure you the technologies are the big pharma the technology is light years behind still still so there is lots of room doctors you will have lots of many new tools coming in the future you've got so you are so lucky because you have an industry which is changing every two to three years there are change disruption things coming to make your profession even more interesting and not a boring place to be and and and this for for for me it's why I’m sticking to this industry since the early beginning and and and i think i will i will i will stay i will stay in this industry up to my um forever i have no reason to to move from dental okay then let's make it formal you and i will marry dentistry right now until death do us part we're married to dentistry my my stepmother is an orthodontist uh my my best friends most of them are orthodontist or dentist uh i myself created two companies successful company in dentistry i I’m speaking dental every day I’m having scan box on the table I’m having literature from uh from uh from a gco on on my desk I’m just living out autonomics and dental all day long so thank you thank you so much to staying up so late in the morning and talking to us uh on dental town um i really appreciate it and as soon as this pandemic is open and the airports are back open i can't wait to uh meet you in France and uh please do so i i will be honored to invite you in France all to our Austin offices meet our team in in us or in europe wherever you want or London whatever you prefer we'll be pleased to welcome you uh to see you behind the scene of gm which is really cool all right well have a great evening and we'll talk to you soon