Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
How to perform dentistry faster, easier, higher in quality and lower in cost. Subscribe to the podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dentistry-uncensored-with-howard-farran/id916907356
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1515 John Soforic, Author of The Wealthy Gardener, on Saving Strategies & Creating Passive Income : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

1515 John Soforic, Author of The Wealthy Gardener, on Saving Strategies & Creating Passive Income : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

12/7/2020 4:00:00 AM   |   Comments: 1   |   Views: 490
Dr. John Soforic was a chiropractor with 200k in student debt at age 25. He retired at 49 with a retirement income of $20,000/month in passive income. He wrote a book for his son, who was then in college, called The Wealthy Gardener: Lessons on Prosperity between Father and Son. The book became an Amazon bestseller, hit #46 worldwide on Audible, and has been already translated into 6 languages.

VIDEO - DUwHF #1515 - John Soforic


AUDIO - DUwHF #1515 - John Soforic


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Please excuse any typos as this was digitally transcribed.
It is just a huge honor for me today to bring on to the show Dr John Soforic he's the author of the wealthy gardener he was once a chiropractor with 200 000 in student debt he retired at 49 years old with a retirement income of 240 000 a year he then wrote a book for his son in college the wealthy gardener lessons on prosperity between father and son the book became an absolute amazon bestseller hit number 46 worldwide on audible and has been translated into six languages he's not a dentist he's a chiropractor but his friends are all dentists he says he was a chiropractor for 25 years and he flipped houses and built a real estate business of 110 units and then he wrote the wealthy gardener and the reason I’m bringing you on the show is uh oh my god if there's everybody always associates dentists with golfing and i get all my friends they they love that game but my god do they love um if when they diversify their first business is um it's always real estate in fact on dental town some of the uh there's one thread called the uh real estate investment um here let me uh pull it up just just search uh real estate and um oh let me uh let me find that thread um real estate i mean that some of those real estate threads are just they're they're crazy they're just crazy long dentists love real estate i i assume it's because they're so tired of dealing with the with people and patients and staff that it's kind of nice to you know talk to a a home or a building or a piece of land but uh um how are you doing john and thank you so much for coming on the show thank you Howard i i have about five things to answer from what you just said right there and yeah i think that um it's funny you say that because one of when i remember when i was 32 years old i myself met a dentist I’m 55 years old right now and he was a friend of a friend and he had 32 paid off rentals and at that time I’m 32 years old I’m struggling through my my practice and that son of a gun he a lot of a lot of times you say why why would dennis get into it and i think the reason is you get into it for retirement you start building a retirement income it's not exclusive doesn't use your own hours of course that makes sense so you he got into it for that but he had this role where he spent every damn dime of his rental income every month so he he did it for the retirement but he spent it all and he spent it all and he didn't care because he had another month coming at him and so he had his house here he had a house up in new York he had he had a house on the gulf coast and he was living large because of his Reynolds and i could not help see the contrast in that man's life versus my own and uh yeah well you know I’ve had um grant Cardone come on the show twice and what i love the most about grant is that um he really motivated uh two of my four sons to go down that road and as a father you always so appreciative people have an impact on your children and um he said something you know in in dentistry one of the most common questions are well if I’m going to practice here from 25 to 65 i don't want to pay rent for 40 years so they always think they should own their real estate but then there's people who do real estate full time for a love living like you who say dude have it just owning one property you're really not in the real estate business i mean you gotta um even grant Cardone told my son Greg that he said you know the first thing you should do is instead of buying a home you should buy a 12 plex or a 16 plex and you should live in one of them and run out and fix up all the other ones but you need to get large enough to scale so how would you answer the proverbial question of a young dentist getting out of school and he's going back to small Townville Ohio and he says well i don't want to rent for 40 years I’d rather own what would you tell him john so you know I’ve done it both ways and then i always go back to my own life right it's not that different we're all we're having uh service professions i started out i keep my income low and so it's a big it's a big thing when you want to start out here you're especially when you come to school you're so heavily laden with that student debt that you are under this cloud that nobody else can see but yourself so you've got to provide for the family yourself assuming you have a family and you have this big student debt you have all the expenses coming in to start your practice i i believe in low overhead okay no question about it so i think you keep yourself uh in low overhead don't get too far out ahead of yourself early on it's safer no question about it you got to be focusing now you're not going to walk in and have a whole lot of things you that a bank is going to want to give you anyway you know you're you're in a ton of debt who are you well you're a guy showing up with nothing so you got to kind of earn the ability to to buy that building I’ve done it and I’m speaking from experience Howard because i was probably the first 15 years of my life i worked in the basement of a veterinarian clinic all right we were kicking it but we had no no um overhead i moved and i i eventually did own the most expensive uh probably one of the nicest medical clinics along the route uh the roads there but i earned that i earned it through work and through not spending money so frugality so i say keep it tight man pay back that student loan get yourself out of the hole so um everyone listening to me is in dentistry you're a chiropractor you worked in the basement of a vet that that's three different healthcare industries vet chiropractor dentistry i always it seems to me that veterinarians chiropractors dentists physicians lawyers they never live below their means they always seem there's something about their dna where they they can't spend the weekend at the lake they gotta fly somewhere and go on a cruise they they they can't just do anything normal for vacation they gotta go skiing they can't have a a honda they got to have a range rover they can't get a three bedroom too bad that's got to be a five i mean i mean i mean i just sit there and talk to dennis i'll go through like 16 categories and say just name one category where you're spending is average even their wife's wedding ring is three carrots i mean i don't know if i mean my god how paranoid do you have to be with your lover to put a three-carat rock on her finger i mean why don't you just chain her up to the to the the home i mean do you think doctors vets chiropractors do you think they have a bigger spending problem than the average patient i don't think it i know it i know it uh but you know it depends on where you're coming from like you realize that where I’m coming from my my grandfather was a coal miner my parents got together and they they started out their marriage in half of the trailer not a full trailer i come out of school I’m the first chiropractor I’m the first person for my entire family that's ever graduated from college so that was my my start i have like like you said at the start i do have friends that are uh dennis i uh some of my best friends are dennis and i have not seen i see a lot of complaining and they're all good guys they're all good guys and they're all talking about how insurance is reimbursement is changing they're the smartest of the smart they're good people but they can't control that spending they all have houses twice as big as mine and so yeah i i don't think it i know it i see it so when you say you were a uh uh col you you came from a coal miner my my grandfather was I’m in western Pennsylvania outside of Pittsburgh is there any chance that you're related to Loretta Lynn Nicole wonderslaughter oh my god that was a great movie and spacek just nailed it did you did growing up in Pennsylvania from a family with coal miners did that movie was it uh did they like the movie was it on or did they think it was hollywood weird you know something i never saw I’ll tell you the truth Howard i i never saw the movie um i can tell you that it's all it's all part of our dna around here though you know it's like we're only a couple generations removed from that where my grandfather actually did get paid for money that was only used at the company's store that whole story that was real you know in my life and so you know he my dad came into this family and one of the poorest families in in our country in our uh area so it's all real to me um i did not watch the movie but we kind of lived that life we know it um and there's a um it's a interesting uh when i think of Pennsylvania there are some uh tough areas in uh poverty and things like that uh but i always think of the amish also and i always want to remind the dentist that um you know a lot of dentists they overspend because i i think the the number one skill that homo sapiens can do is they can detach themselves from the present you know you look at a zebra he's eating while he's looking for hyenas and lion he's 100 in the present but humans learned how to detach from the present and start thinking well most of their thoughts are fantasy in nature and they have nothing to do with reality and a lot of them think that they um that when you tell them the average dentist makes this so much money they say yeah well we deserve it we weren't they they can rationalize anything they can rationalize anything it's a it's what they do it's their best skill but they don't realize that the only reason they make that kind of money is because they're in bed with the government who has state boards who when a qualified dentist from Mexico comes up to phoenix to start doing dentistry on poor Mexicans on the Guadalupe Indian reservation where there are no American dentists um the government arrests them and puts them in a cage and deports them you're out there in Pennsylvania they do the same to the Amish separation in church and state hell there's been uh um health officials i mean uh um I’ve read it in your uh Pennsylvania times where Amish dentists are harassed by the Pennsylvania state board so so basically they make all their money because um the boards keep all of these foreign trained doctors and dentists out and they always do it under the skies of oh well we're protecting the the the people it's like dude the people on the Guadalupe inner renovation and the Amish they don't get any dentistry have you ever seen uh breaking Amish they all got dentures by the time they're 20. so they justify their existing tan and then on top of that it's like i pay a thousand dollars for an iphone dentists and chiropractors they they know the patient ain't gonna pay a thousand dollars for their iphone so they they want the government to pay it the the insurance companies that they're always bad-mouthing all these other people for not giving them the money they deserve when the real issue is they don't even deserve the money they get and they spend too much and they gotta dial down their ego and their expectations and try to live like a normal person is that how you try to coach them or do you give up on trying to bring them to reality and just say man we gotta really ramp up this real estate business because your spending is so irrational um we we gotta build up your business to match your spending what is your approach to it reality or just try to match their their insanity well let's get one thing straight okay I’m calling these dentists my friends okay these these guys these friends of mine aren't really looking for advice from me all right there they they always called me uh they always said you know dc at the end of my name stood for dumb chiropractor right doctor of chiropractic I’ve never heard of that one dc's oh my god that is hilarious so then what does dds stand for dmds and all this kind of stuff yeah we make up words but they are they're not looking for advice uh they're not but you know until Howard i i will say this okay to to get serious for one minute uh they always did kind of look down at me a little whenever i was going into this real estate stuff i would go into real estate you know you look like you're going on the other side of the tracks you know you're doing this uh you're building rentals you're flipping houses you're you're you're outside of your practice and what does that look like from the inside from the from people are looking at you they're thinking well this guy must be hurting financially if he's going out and running around while we're golfing he's doing this what are you doing that for and they're kind of like questioning me until their kids are ready to go to college until they're right there and and now i start getting questions like hey how do i get into that real estate thing you know on the side and then I’ll I’ll say I’ve had this conversation and this is where it gets a little sad because I’ll say well okay here's how it works you're trying to cover this you're trying to you're trying to get a cash flow for this amount of money a return on income how much money do you have and we go quiet they don't have the money there's no investment money because this just goes back to what you're talking about if you don't think about what you want in the future you'll just choose what you want right now in the present so you don't you do have that that brain of a um animal that can foresee the future see what's what your troubles are out there and try to have contingency plans for that i think that's what real estate is or any other businesses you know you're trying to get some sort of a stream coming to you that doesn't involve you and i can tell you as a service provider where you where I’m there all my life in a practice just like a dentist is i mean i know i know what they go through because i thought we talk we talk about all the time it's on stage it's right now if you're not there you're not making money i get it when you start to make a little bit of money even a trickle that has nothing to do with your presence man that's a different game your eyes light up i can promise you that's that makes you feel like you just discovered a river of gold that you just never knew existed that's a different kind of reward you know and that's what they wanted but they wanted it too late yeah i i mean gosh i so agree um when i look out burnout disease i mean a lot of it's multifactorial you know um dennis you know for years they were you know everybody thought they had the highest suicide rate now obviously a 19-year war with afghanistan has made the soldiers i mean held 26 a day kill themselves dennis aren't even close to that and why is america in a 19-year war well because america has only gone 20 years since 1776 while not being in a war it's the most out of control uh military empire ever um but um the soldiers have the highest suicide rate but i think it's the the dentists are depressed because they realize they have to keep dancing at the circus four days a week at top notch speed um for the endless horizon they they got their lifestyle their cars their travel their food everything is so high they have to go in there and crush it four days a week and they're like 45 and they're realizing i got to do this I’m 65. and then when you see the other side the dentist who finally no debt doesn't have to do anything kids are gone now it's like it's their hobby and they smile and they play and they love it so my gosh getting behind that minimum monthly payment to where you're going to have to dance at full speed to no end in sight that can start playing with your mind you know it's called it's called being a non-profit employee you're just working for everybody else without profits for yourself and there's a there's a stagnancy i can tell you I’ve done it man i was in uh i started my practice out in chicago and it was a very fast growing area out there and at that time i was hustling man I’m in my 20s and I’m I’m busting it seven days a week and i didn't know what work was until i went into practice right and i am dead tired after three years and i just did this accounting process where i checked out everything where can i trim my costs what can i do i was dead tired at the age of 27 28. i couldn't trim a dime and i didn't have a dime after running that hard on the treadmill and one of the things i wanted my kids to know is that if you just can't can't dial it down if you can't be frugal enough if you don't have that kind of discipline your work will burn you out you know what the cure of burnout is for all the people that are out there talking about it just sprinkle 50 000 more on their head each year and they'll they'll come to life i promise you that well it's the same thing if they were to be able to cut that expense down and they people say wow i can't do that yeah right i moved across the country i sold my house i went to i drove used cars don't talk to them you can't do it and have everything you want i understand that's frugality it's uh it's a lost virtue these days but it can be done it's silly if to think that you can't do that um do you think that pandemic is gonna force a lot of this on here like like i noticed this talk about the difference in government and free enterprise government i mean free enterprise was already trying to flirt with working from home part-time maybe one day a week or a month or sales people logging in from hotels and then when the pandemic broke out it was really easy for freedom price to scale from 10 or 15 doing stuff like that to a lot of people but i noticed the schools um they they just tried to go from zero to no com come back just like it was it's like whoa whoa whoa you always complain that class size was too high um you're the number one expense in every state of all 50 states yet you always claim you don't get any more money you want more money why don't you let them study from home two days a week and bring half the students back Monday and Wednesday and the other half Tuesday and Thursday but you can just see it doesn't even click in their head um but i think this um covid really uh well i mean look at the savings rate we haven't seen usually the savings rate is negative if an American earns a dollar with credit cards and dad he'll spend a dollar five a dollar dime and it now it's a 15 savings rate last time it was that high was 1929 if that gives you a heads up of what's going on and people i mean they're not eating out for dinner i mean uh many many women um have found the oven in their own home and they found all these hidden things in there that the rest of the family was hiding from mom all you had to do was put in the oven and she'd never find it but people are starting to spend quite differently their savings rate is as high as since 1929 do you think the the pandemic is kind of some forced live below your means medicine that's going to reset the dial on on earnings and spending and consumption you know Howard I’m just not a big believer in uh people doing it until i see it um it's but it's what's what i find interesting in that i didn't know your numbers because if you think about what's changed here uh you know the big three expenses in people's lives are going to be your housing your transportation and your food now granted you got a lot of your transportation out of the way as far as driving to and from work and taking buses to and from work whatever however you get to and from work so you got that expense taken care of and your eating out is far less just those two things allow you to move from the negative to the positive wow uh you know that's the only variables i see here and those two things are really easy to continue with if you are to uh get back in full gear out there in the workforce so no i don't i don't know i i i know it's possible to trim i could that's a pretty impressive number to me i i I’m surprised the 15 savings rate right now that's really all we'll have to do it's uh it's crazy because um you know the um when i was at mba school at asu you know they always beat our heads that they number one forward-looking prediction for the economy is always the consumer confidence integral out of chicago because you have millions of people on the ground individually reporting they see a rosy um future and that's everything with humans and once those humans look out the window and see something scary they they turn around and they quit spending and and all that stuff and um my gosh um this pandemic has scared the out of them uh they can't go out and eat uh so you have to learn how to cook beanie weenies and craft dinner at home so um can i uh can i just yeah what you just said it's uh it's so important you said they'll stop spending when they get the when they start to feel the fear right one of the principles in my book that i i was talking about that that gets a little crap it gets a little pushback from people is that i you know you can use financial fears to motivate yourself i had it all my life and you know what you're talking about right now they're feeling the fear they're not spending oh think about it i mean as me as a chiropractor Howard i was approaching i was going through my 20s i had nothing i was going through my 30s i i needed to get some sort of an income i saw that i needed to get that outside of my practice because every year my practice was getting earning less and less and less shrinking insurance reimbursement is real and i was bummed every time it turned into a new year because on january 1st the new insurance stuff comes into a chiropractor's office they tell you how they're changing everything it's always worse for you and you're bummed because it's worse and then on the other side this is the best it'll ever be it's always getting worse for me as a chiropractor well that doesn't it's not too hard to think ahead and say that really sucks and my future is way worse than it is right now so i got out of fear i gotta save my money out of fear i gotta get out there and bust myself and build an income out of fear i want my i gotta do this so my kids can go to college and i can pay for them i gotta do this out of fear just like you said i you can use fear to motivate yourself if you open up your eyes and you you have the balls to actually see the danger in the future but see that that's that's really um what you said though was a beautiful assessment of all of America every year it's going to be worse than here before because after world war ii all of Europe and Asia was leveled the only country that had production that wasn't bombed was united states so if you want to buy a car a refrigerator or freezer and the amount the transfer of wealth from other nations to the united states after war ii was the greatest transfer of wealth in all of history and the one behind it closest was um the Saudi Arabia the middle east finding oil it was just amazing well so then you had the American long the the longshoremen's union that circled all the ports nothing came in or out of the country without the union they started asking for all this money and dental benefits so that's the beginning of dental insurance it turned into the longshoremen's club and and and when i got out of school in 87 i would just send in my fees and the insurance to pay a hundred percent clean exam and x-ray 80 filling root canal and half for the big crowns and dentures and partials and it was just a gravy train it was just like the longer you work the more money you could make and if you needed an extra couple thousand dollars uh you just would take on one more toothache at the end of the day and then as as as the rest of the world came online not only did japan and germany um declare their reconstruction after world war ii about 1980 but but while they were trying to get back online china and korea jumped out in front in singapore and hong kong and i guarantee you during this last four-year administration thing where we cancel all these trade deals and all that kind of stuff they already have reformed their own groups without us giving us the birds and i don't think any americans have any idea the ramifications of how much china took advantage of this coronavirus and the pandemic and politics and they they're the only growing economy this year i mean they they're gonna they're rocking in fact if you sell luxury goods china used to buy 40 percent of the year's luxury goods 20 20 20 they bought 80 percent everyone else is contracting so these are um so dentistry is same thing every year our dental insurance companies uh cut our fees more you buy a practice from you and you're on delta premiere but the new guy that buys it he doesn't get your dental premiere he's on the dental ppo so dentistry is like that they're gonna make less and less money from third-party insurers every year going forward they're following you to the t how does it look for chiropractics it looks like cash practice Howard it looks like cash practice um I’m like you when i started in 1990 i i came out and i could charge what i wanted to charge and they would pretty much pay 90 for chiropractic at that point all right we're service providers you know i would see a patient every 15 minutes and so there's where your money's made now i agree i i retire from practice at the age of 50. that's 20 about 25 years out I’m making less per person same 15 minutes i can't duplicate myself um i took a pay cut over over 25 years well how does it look it looks like every year the insurance reimbursement gets smaller meaning the deductibles are back they're getting bigger the co-pays are so large now that it looks like there's chiropractic coverage until you notice the co-pay is larger than the actual cost of the visit well what's that that's not insurance and they call it chores yeah i get chiropractic on there but i have a 60 dollar copay well hell we only charge 50 bucks for a visit anyway so it's cash you know what i mean so that's that's how it all works it's it's cash man and and so what they did was build in an incentive they decentralized people to go of course they did they put a barrier to treatment and it works you know you're working it out in the middle class a lot of us are you know it's it's it's a good life around here but people don't they earn about fifty thousand dollars you know they don't have cash like that so they will they'll pay the vet they'll pay the dentist because they want to look pretty they'll pay the vet because it's their pet but don't ask them to fix their sciatica it's a different game when it comes to chiropractic it's tougher and and you have a smaller pool to begin with because um only seven and a half percent of americans go to the chiropractor uh on any given year uh correct sure sure you have a and and you know it's like there's a chiropractor on every corner and you're you know it's like chiropractors and barbers and uh you know so there's there's a lot of competition everybody's coming out into the field and i i can't tell you I’m always I’m always torn because you always have the young people come up and say well you know thinking about being a chiropractor and i said man okay if you really want to do this for your you know because you you want to get in there and serve people you want to be you know useful in that way a meaningful life i mean it is one of it's still ranked as one of the top five you know in the books as one of the top five most meaningful careers you can get into as chiropractor meaningful being a subjective term that people feel meaningful okay that meaning goes away when you're when you're thinking about cash flow you know it's everybody's heavy but you when you don't have a dime at the end of a day and so you're thinking about your kids going to college you're thinking about bread on the table you're thinking about i don't have any retirement all of a sudden that meaningfulness goes right out the window because you don't have a profit and so i don't like the the practice of chiropractic right now going forward it's cash and you also work in the basement of a um a vet so use uh your friends or dennis uh what would you say if someone was saying well i can't decide if i want to be a dentist a chiropractor or a vat what would you say to them well how smart are you uh everybody wants everybody loves their puppy but uh you gotta be pretty intelligent to be a vet that's not the easiest schooling in the world i i think that even us dentistry uh you it's probably a higher aptitude and a higher intelligence level to get into than to get into chiropractic a lot of us can be dummies so there's a little truth to that uh we're competent people but there's a skill of what can you do i would be a little i now if i was getting under the dentistry i have one of my best friends actually an orthodontist that that is a job that is a profession where you just you just count your money uh that's a fantastic job however uh i don't think that everybody out there thinking they can be a dentist can be a dentist i uh i think you have to figure out what you're smart enough to do what you're disciplined enough to do and if you really want that job uh for yourself you gotta really like the people uh i would say that that there are other ways to make money if that's what the goal is other ways to make money bigger profits out there so um your genre of your book um finance saving i mean going back to rich dad poor dad all these different what made you realize there was a personal financial book story uh still not told where we're where did this come from and by the way congratulations i mean it's an amazing book and you knocked it out of the ballpark but I’m just wondering what were you seeing in Pennsylvania where you thought you know what we need we need another book on personal finance i mean there's a million of them and yours yours was unique and crushed it why have you read those books that's why Howard i I’ve I’ve read them all okay I’ve read them all and I’ve lived it okay i started out you know like like you said at the start two hundred thousand dollars in student debts in today's dollars okay i climbed that mountain and i read them all it's personal finance man it's it could be as those books are about as dry as reading a cookbook in a math book combined and this is what they are they're they're just like step by step and you know most people don't get through them uh they're just not that there's only there's there's some out there that are entertaining enough that people can actually and they can grip you enough that you can make it from start to finish it's not that easy of a genre however i had a lot of experience and i i has experience with what i think is some of the best books ever written and i think that uh you know some of the influences that I’ve had were books like you know the richest man in babylon timeless books like think and grow rich acres of diamonds uh some of the things from the past and you know you'll notice these people are that are writing these books they kind of have a different purpose they're not whipping books out and trying to make a crapload of money and they've actually done something before they've written that book and so it comes off deeper and i just felt like that might be lacking at least that that was my opinion maybe i was just insane to think that i could do it but i i believed that it was possible and i i tested it a little with my son you know it was a personal thing first it's not like i said I’m gonna write this book in this book this world needs it i was saying I’m coming out of I’m coming out of my practice I’m 50 years old i reached my goals my son is in college he's coming out of college what do i do what do i do and so that was the answer to what do i do i i just wanted to send him out into the world prepared and that's where it started i didn't really think that the world needed me i thought that he did i always felt in math that the kids uh had no idea what the teacher was trying to explain and then they see a formula and then they just start trying to shove numbers into a formula and this uh goldfinger um in um in operational logistics uh he said you know what I’m gonna do I’m gonna write a book with no math and it's gonna be a love story it's gonna be a man and his wife and he works at a place and they just come home from work every day and all during dinner about how crazy the work is and I’m gonna teach him operations and logistics in a love story without putting a math numeral there and it just crushed it um rich dad poor dad book did that you did it i mean um you know nobody nobody should pick up a pencil and write a numeric number and do any mathematical problem until they can look you in the eyes and tell you what they're trying to do and why they're trying to do it and then it's a matter of well then health that point let the calculator the computer do it they know what they're doing so i i think what you did was put it in human terms and human terms doesn't involve uh cosines and tangents and and derivatives you know they just just make this you know i love that explain it to me like I’m five and it's amazing how people who master their subject um i i was telling a guy the other day that i said i said dude you've been doing this for 40 years he's 12 and you can't explain what you're doing to a 12 year old after 40 years i mean come on dude explain it to him like he's five you know a couple couple of things there Howard hill Einstein Einstein not to put ourselves in the class of Einstein uh but he said that your job is to simplify it to its basic level but not beyond and not too much you can go beyond right you can't make it too simple and when you start to write write a something that i did right here in a kind of a fiction form plus you know a plus anecdote form you run the risk of losing an audience if you can't stay at a very profound level you have to stay on the topic and it's real important number two tell me if this is your experience could you go through dennis nonstop and i and i am having the fact that i i will golf and lose golf matches to dennis nonstop I’m surrounded by them uh my my friends tend to be them i find that the challenge of finance the challenge of wealth all right i did it so i could tell you and i and i i know how it's done it's not about the numbers it's about the behavior i think that the numbers can be taught to a fifth grader personal finance is not that hard no we should not spend uh more than we make no kidding that we should work a little more to earn a little more it's all about our behaviors it's not about the knowledge that's about 10 of it and so the question is how do we go from intention to execution that's the game of wealth it's nothing else the rest of it's just child's play it's okay find go go invest into the uh into the market what are you gonna do you're gonna go in the index fund okay good you gave five minutes to it let's get back to actually making it and not spending it that's how it happens it's all about that stuff it's about behavior and so that's why the book was needed for my son i needed he's going into finance he's got a lot of money coming i needed him to say you got to control your behavior pal and this is how the old man did it you can screw up all you want but i did my job teaching you how it works in the real world and that book was the goal by e elijah m gold rat have you heard of that book before I’ve read that book absolutely sure and uh that was um that book needs to just go all the way through academia because what you do is you get these especially the universities they're just filled with just horrible teachers and so their only goal is to prove that they know more than you so they start each class with a bunch of math equations to make everybody like foggy and not know what's going on so at the end of the uh course you're just saying oh the teacher's real smart and I’m real dumb and it's like well that was his only goal and i see the same thing in orthodontic courses i mean I’ve been to orthodontic courses where um the full curriculum four three day weekends and ninety percent of the class did not start a class one adult ortho case with mild crowding and then I’ve gone to uh four three day weekend courses uh with other ones and i mean halfway through the course everybody in the class has already started a case one person is teaching and motivating and trying to make you a better version of yourself and the other person is it's all about him and he's just trying to um you know fill his empty hole of no self-esteem and there's you know his barrel doesn't have a uh there's a hole in the floor so no matter how much praise you give him it's not enough but i mean but this elijah gold rat he changed the world and he needs to get people to stop to start talking the way humans perceive i mean they see with their eyes it's not their ears and they um they you know they're they're humans and i think your book was a very very human book it was a father talking to a son um you know um i mean my gosh are you gonna do another one you know let me uh lay back track and then answer that you know that goal the book the goal the one thing that was struck me from that book that you brought up there is that uh he talks about constraints and linchpins being in every system throughout different businesses it's one of the hardest things for me is to is to put people on jobs knowing they're going to stand around even though they're going to be ready for the capacity to come down that pipeline and then then it'll be like they'll they'll be you'll have this full efficient system intact and ready even though it burns a little bit of money waiting for the you know it's so sometimes you have to have those people standing around the front desk waiting for full time you know for on time and that was a hard one for me from that book the goal it was a good learning uh principle that i that i took out of that one and i believe that's what the books are for you you take one thing out of there one and then another thing uh that was an important lesson from that book from me the um am i going to write another one I’m in the process Howard and i say this that uh we're back to it where I’ll I’ll write one chapter I’ll send it to my son and it's once again we're going through the process uh it's it's he and i right now yes it's an action manual a follow-up to the wealthy gardener and i reserve the right to not publish it if I’m not satisfied at the end i don't have this idea of of grandeur that everything i do turns to gold and so sometimes i I’ll try to finish and then I’ll decide at that point just like the first time around this is between him and i right now and uh we're working through a book it's a conversation of the wealthy gardener but more of an action manual just do you know action steps so so do you do you just have one child is is he your only child and that's a good that's a good ah and that's a good point you bring up no i have a daughter she is um a few years older than her but she doesn't have the interest in the same things that he does uh i have always made her welcome to our to our uh learning from our editing books doing whatever you know this whole process but just like you have i believe four four sons uh we all have these children that come through us but not necessarily from us because they're all different we don't know where they come from and so she doesn't have the attraction of reading one word of my book whereas uh my son and i we we go back and forth we talk about these ideas and and we're kind of the same soul same soul and so it works for us well um that reminds me of uh you know you don't know where these kids come from I’ll never forget after uh i got divorced uh i told my ex i said you know we got four boys and obviously one of them's not right in the head and if if that's really not my boy and you had an affair i mean it's no big deal i i wish you would just tell me now and she told me she says actually that's the only one that's yours and uh i was uh blown away but it but it's that's it's a perfect setup because um you know whenever i read a financial book the they talk about everything but financial i mean the number one cause of divorce is marriage um these dentists graduating from 400 000 student loans my divorce was 3.8 million i don't know a single dentist that got divorced for under a million so they never they never talk about that and plus when i was little i mean my mother and dad were irish catholic they had seven children in about four days um now you see families um getting smaller and waiting ten years to start to me it looks like one of the biggest thing i mean when people say well i don't i don't know if i'd want to start a business on the side well you don't have to just don't get married and you'll never get divorced battle money and don't have any kids you don't have to worry about any college and if you just don't buy a big house and a lamborghini and eat out three nights a week i mean it's amazing this country the mass production of low-cost goods and services like the other day i was in a trailer park you know a lot of my family lives in trailers and uh and they're nice and it's a beauty it's a retirement park out here and you go to these trailers and i mean there's so many senior citizens that if they're debt free they a thousand dollars a month they they live a pretty good life so again how do you get these dentists to not get the alimony why do you have to put your kids through school i mean i guarantee when i was in school you knew who the daddy did it's worth if daddy paid for everything and you had a credit card they were always had the best drugs they had the nicest cars i mean if you couldn't afford a dime bag they had you know they had it all i mean anybody who went you would think anybody who would become a dentist a chiropractor or a vet would have seen enough realistic feedback to say no i'd rather you put yourself through college you'll be working your ass off because you're either going to be really busy and working hard and barely getting by or you're just going to be in hedonism bill uh doing all kinds of uh behaviors that shouldn't be done like you're like your marijuana smoking binges ed creighton yeah those things well you know i mean seriously back in the day there were some really bad drugs and i know for a fact the only reason we never did them remember during the miami vice days and all that stuff i don't know about this uh how are you telling me all about it oh my god and they were it was a hundred dollars a gram you're like dude i make 275 an hour i mean that's you know that's that's not that's nothing I’ll even think about again i don't want to hear it you know you you dentist students you know what they you know what they did they would give themselves these are my friends so i got the inside story here they would give themselves up for medical experiments here in Pittsburgh because they would get paid to be in a uh it was to be like just stuff up your nose and pull things out of you you would give your body to science because that would give you beer money for the weekend that's how that's how they all did it here they're they all go in and then they'll all go out at nighttime so it was kind of crazy and in kansas city in from 84 to 87 if you went into a bar and ordered a beer it'd be about 275. and he walked into the liquor store and bought a case of weedleman's that was 275. and and we used to always sit there and think who are these people that can't drink at home i mean who i mean and and the pandemic has seen that in fact i was rattled by you have did have you been reading about obviously the toilet paper shortage yeah do you know what the main driver of the toilet paper shortage is i mean you got a country that cuts down trees and makes toilet paper and paper towels and the population hasn't changed it's the supply chain we used to do half of our pooping at work and restaurants and out and now we're doing it all at home and all these b2c contracts where they had agreed to buy all this toilet paper a year and they're like hey can we cancel that because now they're buying it at walmart and target they're like no you're not going to cancel my contract we have a supply chain contract so it's not the amount of pooping obviously they're just pooping in a different place same thing with liquor it's half of liquor used to be consumed outside the home and now that bars are mostly closed so they're just they're consuming the liquor at home um i i i still think this pandemic could really break a lot of bad spending habits that might actually help them on the other end of the pandemic do you see that coming well you know two things are first of all I’ve always had a appreciation for dentists because they do seem to drink so much through school and it's not an easy education so to combine those things it's always been like this point of respect for me that somehow they're really high achieving intelligent people they can do this so that's that's been my experience and i have to say that even even though I’ve done a lot of uh research before this you know this podcast i didn't know we're gonna be talking about pooping but we're gonna we're gonna take it and run here and i was saying that i didn't know anything about the uh why we are outside of the pen to make uh running out of toilet paper right now but you got me and i have to say that you're you're a believer man you're a believer i I’ve I’ve been at this you know you believe that people can change when you bring them back to normal now i would say that my I’ll counter that with the idea that we certainly did a reset button around 2008-2009 didn't we we saw a lot of fear there we saw a lot of reason to start saving didn't we and then prior to this pandemic we're kind of right back where we were it doesn't we we're pretty we have pretty short memories in terms of that uh that that need to save it just does a lot more fun to spend and i i just don't know what the solution of that is i hope you're right i hope that people can say look my life is getting better without because because we're all better that way i have just become a reluctant skeptic in the nature of people unless they start really setting different goals focusing having different rituals daily where they'll sit down and actually focus on why they why it's important for them to get out of debt now why is it important and put that into your day make that a part of your day why do i have to why don't why would i accept nothing less than a retirement a freedom if you're talking about freedom you better figure out how to get money without you involved with it so you just it just doesn't happen without your active participation a life of intentionality if this doesn't come it's either intentional by design or it's not intentional we just float and so if i if you tell me that i can sit down and make people every day of their life write their goals on paper and why those goals are important now I’ll I’ll start to believe I’ll start to believe then but if they can't grab a hold of that and it sounds like oh that's just dumb it's easy some all right do what you want to do i did it all my life i did it this morning we do that if when we want to get ahead in life and so that's the kind of stuff that leads to intentionality that then leads to execution at least to a dumb chiropractor kicking the ass out of mds who who now rent from him you know so like that's how that works so it's too simple for some but it wasn't too simple for me so i want to read your um your google where you have five i mean amazon you have 537 five five-star ratings unbelievable it's called the wealthy gardener lessons on prosperity between father and son and and um because if it was father and daughter it'd be like that alec baldwin thing you'd be yelling at her and screaming in that one so i like the way you uh did the father-son danielle color a pig or anything a heartwarming series of stories and practical wisdom on entrepreneurship and wealth in the vein of rich dad poor dad written by a financially independent father for his ambitious son soon after he opened his vineyard for business many years ago the wealthy gardener noticed a puzzling fact everyone wanted money but only a few people managed to accumulate it the reason he realized that most people focus on short-term gains instead of achieving lasting wealth as he grew old and aware of his dwindling time on this earth the wealthy gardener began to share his hard-earned wisdom with the financially troubled in his community patiently mentoring those who asked for his practical advice on the ways of prosperity the parable of the wealthy gardener is far more than an admonishment to earn more or spend less it's about timeless principles as his lessons reveal financial freedom is a means to power and control over our lives without money we are subject to the demands and whims of others with money we are sheltered from the storm and we can extend that shelter to our loved ones poised to become an intimate financial classic the wealthy gardener will inspire listeners to find their own noble purposes and relieve their money worries once and for all no matter your income level skill set or unique economic disadvantages the lessons this book will show you the path forward and your need is work your the desire to deceit and the motivation to learn and i just want to add one something to it um we've talked about this forward terms in geometry uh like an acute angle on up to saying they're all exact terms but words in um politics are very very vague and and one of the words that's thrown around a lot that really um is disturbing to me is when people talk about socialism because the original word of socialism was several hundred years ago when the new economists were talking about socialism was that that you should own the means of your production you should not work on land that's owned by the king and then give him half your crop they were ready to fight to death to stop that they wanted to own their own land they don't like the taxation without representation but they own their means of production and I’m seeing a lot of dentists deciding you know what i don't need to own my dental office it'd just be a lot easier to to just go work for a big chain okay so now you lost all the lessons of socialism you no longer own your own means of production and during a contraction you will be discarded and thrown away like tissues and toilet paper and i um come from kansas where this land you know that owning the land a lot of those dairy farms and wheat farms have been handed down in families for several generations and and i don't know i always felt that if i own my own dental office i don't care if the economy crashed i don't care it's runaway inflation they are never gonna run out of humans um in toothaches that need extractions and root canals and trying to get dressed up pretty like a peacock i mean i think a big part of wealth also is your worst case scenario and my worst case scenario is i own the land building and i own my dental office and um so um so when i talk about when dentists talk about diversification they're always saying oh well don't own this amazon stock own own an index fund while they're an employee for someone else that could fire them today at five o'clock and it's like dude diversification is owning your means of production and living off less than you earn and if you own your means of production and you live off less than you earn isn't that a wealthy dentist i love it hard i love it uh so i guess what you're saying is you might take take uh a different attack than grant cardone who suggested don't own the practice is that where we are uh well i don't wanna i don't wanna argue with my buddy grant but i just uh say that i um i was an honor to podcast you and i i hope you join dental town and google real estate because again i mean if you say dentist to anybody they always think okay he's a golfer and if if you say in bay oh this dennis started their own a different business what do you think it is it's always real estate it's never an ice cream parlor yeah it's let me let me give you uh let me back exactly what you're talking about because while i s it sounds humbling to some people that i started in a uh in a basement of a veterinarian clinic and i we kicked ass in that basement of the veterinarian clinic too okay we were a it was just all profit you know so there was there are some advantages to this and then i moved down the road and i bought one of the probably the nicest medical complex in this in the in the area okay so now now i moved into this i got my own place my own sign on the road I’m looking sweet well guess who retired okay so I’m retired because i did exactly what you're saying Howard i now have an optometrist in there well you know it's not bad having an optometrist in a big clinic right there a big you know a big spread because that guy is the equal of six uh six residential places for me you know that's how that's how commercial works so should i have not on my own place you can't convince me that man i am thankful of god that i moved down that road and paid that thing off amen I’m glad i have it like you said we could have a we could have a serious retraction what do i care i can move back in there you know and that's that's what that's what ownership does for you well uh that is uh that is uh timeless advice and i think uh that you gotta take everything he's saying with a grain of salt because the steelers are 10-0 so he's suffering from so much euphoria he he might be just drunk on the steelers being the only undefeated nfl team is this a big part of your natural high you know Howard we're in Pittsburgh we're kind of used to that you know like this winning tradition it's i know it's new to you kansas city guys but like when you come from Pittsburgh it's part of our dna you know i grew up in the 70s we don't it's it's an aberration to us when we lose you know but but in saying that the weirdest part of the whole Pittsburgh theater's legend is you all know terry bradshaw that beautiful bullheaded quarterback four super bowls in a row but they never know the five years before that when he was the number one draft pick and sucked for years and booed out of his state it was a five-year building process to make that dynasty i don't remember any of that Howard i think you're making all that offer but but it really was a long-term project though terry bradshaw wasn't a miracle magic overnight like they expect today they expect you're going to get a draft pick and this guy's going to take to the super bowl it's like the the first quarterback on earth that won four super bowls was terry bradshaw and it took him about five years out of college to get good go back at those super bowls and look how many times he passed the ball we had a we had a great defense and a great run game too and so he gets a lot of credit i agree i know he pulled some plays out but he might have passed that ball 12 times sometimes you know yeah but the point i was trying to make is it was a long term project you stuck with a number one draft pick for five years what are we doing here in Pittsburgh Howard we're we're badasses all right that's how and that's how investing works it's a long term deal you're not gonna pick my homies my homies wanna pick like the next big amazon stock that goes up thirty thousand percent and they just don't realize that's not how it's going to work so you're looking for you're talking about the mushroom plot of success which everybody talks about in hollywood makes makes it seem like that's real versus the plotting consistent days of dull mundane consistent progress which is how it really works yeah and that's why everyone calls it just one day at a time dude just one day at a time you're overthinking this you're overspending and then and the last thing i don't want to go there but the reason I’m so glad this election is over is because i was so sick of listening to dentists who would say the all these things that of what the president should be telling the American people and the whole time like dude you won't even tell your wife any i mean she's never had a job she destroys ten thousand a month she drives a range roamer um she stays home her kids are in college if you ask her do you have a job no I’m a homemaker dude all your kids are gone and you still just destroy oh but but the president oh yeah he's supposed to cut spending and and make co-payments and be this brutal man I’m like why don't you stand up to muffy for like four seconds before you tell some man to stand up to a third of a billion people you you went more on now we're talking about the personal accountability chapter of the book now it seems like yeah we've drifted to this muffy yeah i mean she's just batshit crazy in dentistry everyone I’m saying they're hot they got a big rock and they destroy 10 000 a month from the day you marry them until you sign the divorce papers but um you know but the bottom line is just uh come on dude just take a chill pill you're not you know i was taught in this dentist the other day during the um during the lehman's crisis i mean he was um i had like 86 or 87 dental office went bankrupt in phoenix and five of them were in my home crying and i was looking i just said bring your fiance over and let me look at this and you're looking at these guys financially you're like I’m I’m sorry are you like a rapper or did you have like a are you like a got a rock and roll band i mean you know five cars about a million half dollar home and then dumped a million into it who buys a one and a half million dollar home and dumps a million into it it's like i could get it if you're rod stewart or elton john but you're farmer fr fred the dentist i have my my uh orthodontist buddy who who just prints money like like he owns the treasury i you know he i tell him that all you have to do in your position is to not lose money you could just go five to six percent you dumbass do you realize this and you could have that big mansion on hilton head you can win the game you're like you're like an athlete on tv you know do you understand the game for you isn't the same as the game for me i have to win this game of investing you just have to not lose you dumbass and that's what i tell him that he laughs at me and then the other thing if you're a dentist why would you need a boat every dentist you know has a boat why would you need a cabin every dentist you know has again i mean if you're a dentist you shouldn't need a single luxury item because all your friends have one I’ll tell you why because of muffy well hey john thank you so much for coming on the show we you it's just you can never have enough lessons and sermons on living below your means and my gosh this pandemic it's actually for the first time it's lowering dentist labor costs and because I’ve always said if if you walk into a thousand dental offices like i have easily when you walk into a dental office nine times out of ten the dentist is always in his private office he's not seeing a patient the hygienist is cleaning the assistant's packing the cord another one's made he's always sitting on his butt but now that since about 15 percent of the the staff said I’m concerned about covet i don't want to come back I’m taking care of a grandma at home i got kids he actually had employees actually had to quit because of covid so now his payroll's gone down so now his net's higher and he's actually making more money because the pandemic is scaring his own high cost overhead labor from showing up to work so it's funny how things turn out this way but um i never i eliminated the office in my office i didn't have a place for myself to sit that wasn't that wasn't income generating space so i didn't have it and that reminds me that superman worked out of a phone booth why do you need a private office right you're a character man it's been a pleasure uh john it's been a real pleasure and i hope to see you on the message boards on the real estate forum and if not call me back when you come out with your next book and uh thank you so much for coming on the show when we're done uh hang around so you can tell me how to do that I’m an old guy you're gonna tell me how to get on your real estate forum oh well just just um go to uh www register and you have to register because we we want to know who all of our members are that it's not a um a commercial spam seller information thing and then there's a 50 forums and i believe the forum uh for you is just gonna be under um finance and finance it's um accounting bookkeeping dental stocks uh personal finance taxes and real estate investment and real estate investment oh my god there's um i mean it's um it's crazy there's 325 threads that all have hundreds of uh views and all that on real estate and i think my theory has always been if you ask a hundred dentists what stress you out it's always people it's either the people's own staff or the people of the patient in fact yesterday um i posted that i only posted one thing and everyone who's still laughing at it um would i say um patient I’m pissed dentist again or still and uh you know and they're just they're they're so sick of people and to me stocks bonds real estate there's no human involved and i think that's why my homies like it they're exhausted on the human drama side and they just want to do something that doesn't involve people you know what i used to in chiropractic to say when i lost my patience with my patients i lost my pages oh that's nice i am so stealing that uh do i do i have to put your name after it now say it again when i lost when i lose my patience with my patients i lose my patience nice nice uh but again thanks thanks for everything and uh have a rocking hot day and when you come out with another book come back on the show all right buddy i appreciate it thanks for having me on all right have a great day

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