Howard: It is just a huge unbelievable honor to bring on Doctor Bradley Bale M D, an Adjunct Professor at Texas Tech Health Science Center, Medical Director of the Heart Health Program at Grace Clinic, Lubbock, Texas and runs a private practice in Gallatin, Tennessee. He is one of the nation’s leading specialists in preventing heart attacks, strokes and diabetes. He co-founded the Bale/Doneen Method with Amy Doneen in 2001. Their personalized approach of cardiovascular risk reduction has been effective enough to allow them to attach a guarantee to their clinical practices. The results of their method demonstrating regression and stabilization of arterial disease, has been published in several peer-reviewed journals.So many dentists on Dentaltown… will you do a search Ryan on the app there Dentaltown for his... What is the name of your... I read it on..
Bradley: Yeah, it's pretty simple it's Beat the Heart Attack Gene. So we do a lot of genetic testing too. So it's, Beat the Heart Attack Gene.
Howard: Heart attack 1 word or 2?
Bradley: 2 words and it's..
Howard: Yeah so I just did a ... look at this. I did a search for Beat the Heart Attack Gene that's where he learned about it. And your books been mentioned by several guests on the show but..look at this- the threads on your book go forever. And when I was reading you book, I thought I'm going to get this guy on the show. And here you are. Thank you so much for talking to my homies today.
Bradley: Well Howard, thank you for the opportunity. You got a great show and a great following so it's an honor to be on here with you. I appreciate you inviting me man.
Howard: And your name Doctor Bradley Bale are you related to Christian Bale?
Bradley: I sure hope so. He's a great actor.
Howard: Would you rather be associated with Christian Bale the Batman or the Christian Bale the American Psycho. Which one would you rather be?
Bradley: Well that American Psycho, it sounds like a good one from what you're telling me. I like Batman too though.
Howard: Oh man! Batman was good. But I'll tell you there's only two movies that my dentist homies can talk about all day long. It's Christian Bale's American Psycho and Fight Club because both of those shows the plot is so bizarre. I think most people think that the entire movie was all in their mentally ill mind. And everything in the movie never happened. But I don't know it's a crazy movie but if you ever sit at a dinner with 4 dentists and they all watched those 4 shows they all have a different interpretation of the movie. Great movie.
Howard: So talk to my homies how can they can prevent a heart attack? Is it predetermined? Most dentist will tell you what how their dad and grandpa died and assume that their going to follow the same path. Is that pretty close or not really?
Bradley: No. Not really, we believe they're all preventable actually and our method did evolve to the point 8 years ago that we started attaching the guarantee to our work. So if any of the patients we treat were to suffer a heart attack or ischemic stroke we give them their money back.
Howard: Wow! How do you prevent the inevitable stroke?
Bradley: Yeah well there's several types of strokes. The most common is the ischemic stroke and that one is the one that we will attach a guarantee to embolic strokes and the ischemic strokes are about 85% of strokes. They're also hemorrhagic strokes and they can occur from a weakness in the artery in the brain and aneurysm and we're certainly not going to guarantee that and then the other kind is an embolic stroke for example a patient may develop atrial fibrillation they'll form a clot in the heart and it will get pumped up to the brain and give them a stroke. And we don't guarantee that one either. But we do guarantee the ischemic stroke which happens by the same mechanism as almost all heart attacks occur. And that's actually a blood clot will form and block the flow of blood and that blood clot forms in a spot where the patient has cholesterol build up underneath and then you get a break in a surface above it and you form a clot. And the clot’s what obstructs the flow of blood. And we believe we can prevent virtually all of those.
Howard: I was really thrilled when I was reading your book out of nowhere. You mentioned.. I didn't even see it coming that gum disease was related to heart disease. And you mentioned dentistry and gum disease in your book.
Bradley: Yes. Actually we just published a paper in the British Medical Journal stating that high risk periodontal pathogens actually cause arterial disease. They're one of the many potential causes for disease in the artery. But it's the high risk periodontal pathogens. So it's the pathogens that drive the arterial risk it's not how deep the pockets are, how loose the teeth are, how much bleeding the patients having. So it's going to change dentistry and that in addition to the exam periodontal disease, we have to know the pathogens and there's several good companies out there who can do DNA testing to tell us what pathogens are involved in the periodontal disease. And if there are any of the high risk and we define 5 of the high risk pathogens. The PG, TF, TD, AA, and then FN. Those are the 5 that we name in...
Howard: Say those again. PG. TF...
Bradley: Yeah. TD Treponema Denticola, AA which I'm not going to try to pronounce and then the FN I could that one, fusobacterium nucleatum.
Howard: Fusobacterium nucleatum. PG Porphyromonas gingivalis
Bradley: TF is Tannerella forsythia
Howard: And what's TD?`
Bradley: That's the Treponema Denticola.
Howard: And give us your best shot at AA.
Bradley: I’m not even going to try man!
Howard: Yeah I'm not going to try AA either. Whether they want me to quit drinking or pronounce that bacteria. Either one I'm not doing. So what percent of heart attacks do you think are related to those 5 pathogens?
Bradley: It's hard to say what percentage of heart attacks are related but the bottom line is knowing that they are a contributory cause of arterial disease demands that that be diagnosed and managed effectively where you can eradicate the pathogens. And we've had that in our paper more research is need on the dental side to tell us what are the best ways to get rid of those pathogens. What are the side effects of all that treatment, what's the cause of that treatment. But bottom line knowing that it's causal demands that it be addressed and managed. So we like to call it a medical problem with the dental solution. We're not dentists so, we collaborate with our dental colleagues all the time in terms of diagnosing and making sure they manage well- the high risk periodontal pathogens. So if you want a simple example when I use...when I'm speaking a lot it's kind of similar to driving under the influence, DUI's. They are a cause of automobile accidents. Nobody's going to argue that, right? They are. It's just like the high risk periodontal pathogens are caused of arterial disease. But there are other causes so we all know people have automobile accidents all day long and there is no DUI involved. And we also know a case only somebody will look out right? They’ll be driving under the influence and they won't have an accident. But knowing for sure that DUI’s do cause automobile accidents demands that it be managed and addressed, just like knowing that high risk periodontal pathogens cause arterial disease. It demands that the dental community make that diagnosis and apply effective management.
Howard: Man I wish you'd write an article for that in Dentaltown magazine. We go to a hundred and twenty five thousand dentists in a monthly hundred page magazine. But now that's it's online we email it to that many more. But on Dentaltown people are sharing those articles. You can share them to your Facebook, Twitter. LinkedIn so, the digital magazine has twice the reach as the print magazine but that would be an amazing article.
By the way I know everyone's driving to work right now. So I re-tweet my guests tweet. I’m @Howard Farran. You are @Bale Doneen B A L E D O N E E N. I re-tweeted your last 2 tweets. And by the way man, you have 34,000 followers. My God! You're as serious as heart attack. Your last tweet, did you know that better sleep is literally a dream diet for weight loss and better heart health? And I re-tweeted, NT Pro-BNP the happy heart test to predict heart attack and stroke risk. You're twitter says you’re out of Spokane Washington.
Bradley: Right, that’s where our Bale Doneen method LLC is housed so to speak and my partner Amy Doneen has a clinic there. That's where it all started and Amy and I became partners in Spokane and then I went to Texas. I got recruited to join a cardiology group in Texas and Amy didn't want to go to Texas which turned out to be a good thing because she kept the clinic going in Spokane and she's done a wonderful job with that and has grown the clinic well and she has patients from all over the world, literally flying to Spokane to see her.
Howard: So if one of the dentists listening to you right now wanted to go get an evaluation, what cities could you see a dentists in?
Bradley:Yeah the best way to find that information is to go to our website which is www.baledoneen.com and we have a map on there of providers who've taken our course. We a deliver a 2 day 17.5 CE and CME course, where we train other health care providers both dental and medical. And we have hygentists come to the course as well as dentists and then of course medical providers. So there's a map on there and we need to beef up the medical providers and we’re working on that right now. There's a big group that's very well respected and quite a few of them have taken our course and love our method and we're trying to get their entire organization to embrace it and that would certainly help solve the problem. Right now there's a little bit of an issue with demand the versus supply because once people hear what we're talking about a bunch of them want to be evaluated because heart attacks and strokes as you know are still number 1 in terms of death and disability which is..
Howard: More than cancer?
Bradley: Yes. More than cancer. That's well documented. And they've been on the top of the billboard for death and disability for over a hundred years Howard. And that drives Amy and I crazy because we've had the technology and knowledge now for 2 decades to prevent the heart attacks and strokes. They don't deserve to be on the top of the list anymore. But as you know it's takes a long time to change the established right?
Howard: Do you have a favorite in Phoenix?
Bradley: Phoenix I've got... there's some good people in Scottsdale.
Howard: Yeah you have a lot of doctors there. Any of them.. off the top of your head that are your faves or?
Howard: Scottsdale, Tempe, you have them all over.
Bradley: Yeah they're good so I don't want to say on the podcast to my...we like them all, right? They're embracing our methods.
Howard: So let's get down to a crash, bash, toxics. Obviously if you just graduated from dental school last week and you’re 25, you probably got other things to worry about than the heart attack gene. At what age, like I'm 54, what age do the dentists listening to you driving to work need to start getting serious about the heart attack gene?
Bradley: Yeah that's a great question. And I would say you wanted couch that in your family history. If you have a family history of close relatives that have had heart attacks and strokes in their 40's or 50's you would be wise to plug in to our method really when you're teenager or even at the latest in your 20's. If there's no family history at all, for heart attacks and strokes it still be wise to get evaluated and if you're a male hopefully you'd want to do that in your 40's and female certainly by the time you're in your 50's if there's no family history. So there's..
Howard: So if dentists are listening to you right now and they have no family history. What age would you say for a boy and a girl?
Bradley: Yeah with no family history again a male in their 40's and the female in their 50's.
Howard: So why would a male be in the 40's and a female in their 50's, is it because the men make their lives so nice and stress free that they just live longer. And the men die earlier because we are so stressed about the females? Is that basically what you are saying?
Bradley: That's a great question but we know historically the woman are have their heart attacks and their strokes about 10 years later in life than man. We know that. They're all sorts of hypothesis about why that is. So we don't know for sure scientifically exactly why they lag behind. Of course a lot of people believe it does deal with the hormones but nobody has really proven yet why.
Howard: You know if I can say one thing about dentists, I mean I don't have any data on this but I have met and talked to a lot of dentists over theyears. They don't like to take pills. I don't like to take pills, I mean, I only take one pill a day and that's the thyroid and the thyroid medication but a lot of dentists they always hear that you're supposed to take that bare aspirin what is it.. the 87 milligram daily aspirin. Are you big into the aspirin, do you think taking a bare aspirin everyday is a good thing?
Bradley: (00:16:28 unclear) in the wall of your artery you have risk for a heart attack or stroke. So one of the things we do for every patient is assess for the presence of disease in the wall of the artery. And we can do that now painlessly and it doesn't cost much. And that's the technology that's come around in the last 20 years to allow us to say we can prevent virtually all heart attacks and strokes. Prior to that technology, we had wait for somebody to have a heart attack or stroke to know that they have a disease. But if we find the person has a disease in the wall of their artery what's going to obstruct the flow, would be a blood clot. So in those patients it is wise to take a little bit of antithrombotic therapy. And the easiest, safest way is with a low dose aspirin and if they didn't want to swallow a teeny-tiny pill of aspirin, go get some willow bark and chew on it. That's where aspirin comes from, acetylsalicylic acid. So if they don't want to take pills, hey just go get some willow bark and gnaw on it at least once a day. That will work.
Howard: So what about statin, that's a huge controversy. I mean, it seems like everything well first of all the internet, my God, I'm only really an expert in like maybe one thing and that's water fluoridation. And I would say 95% of all the information on the internet is completely insane information, horrible sources I mean when people say they edumacate themselves on the internet I just cringe. Same thing with statin. I mean it seems that every time... or half of them say yes, half of them say no. Where do you stand on statins?
Bradley: Yeah, I think the problem with statins, they got their start by touting the cholesterol is what causes arterial disease and kind of the end all be all for arterial disease and that's absolutely incorrect. What causes arterial disease is inflammation of the artery and cholesterol is one of many things that can drive inflammation. Another one we've already talked about on your show today is the high risk periodontal pathogens absolutely can cause inflammation of the artery. So it's inflammation that causes arterial disease and turns out that the statins , if you have to take a medication are arguably one of the best if not the best medication to put out inflammation in the artery. We even have studies now that are published showing how statins reduce the inflammation caused by, guess what? Periodontal disease. So the issue with the statins I think revolves around the fact that everybody is couched the use of statins around cholesterol. We never have done that for the last 20 years, the evidence has been there to state statins are one of the best medicines to put the fire out in the wall of the artery. It doesn't really matter what the cholesterol is, in terms of how effective the are of that and now that they're going back into this big statin studies. And they're looking at markers of arterial inflammation and guess what they’re showing Howard? They're showing it wasn't the change in cholesterol that drove the risk reduction. It was the change in the inflammation so, we’ll use statins, but we don't go by guidelines where they basically state you need at least a moderate to high dose statin to get the job done. We frequently use doses that they don't even make. All we want is enough to put the fire out in the wall of the artery.
Howard: And how do you measure that inflammation? Is that the C reactive protein or the super C reactive protein?
Bradley: Yeah the C reactive protein is the weakest of the whole bunch. It's really a wimp unless it's low. If it's really low it can stand alone and tell you that the artery, the inside lining is okay. But if it's elevated you could have stubbed your toe, right before it went in to give the blood. So bad self if it's elevated, it really doesn't mean much. The best marker for the inside lining of the artery called endothelium is actually a urine test where we look to see how much albumin is getting into the urine. Because when that inside lining is inflamed and those tiny capillaries in the kidney, that albumin which is a huge molecule can slip through that inflamed lining and show up in the urine. If that lining is not inflamed it's real tight, it can't get through. So you should hardly see any albumin in the urine. And it's like a $5 test, you just pee in a cup you don’t even need to give blood. And it's the best test for in our opinion, most important organ in the human body which is the inside lining of the artery. The fancy term for it is the endothelium. But we refer to it as the tennis court because we all have about 60,000 miles of vessels in our body. Every one of them is lined by this single layer of cells called the endothelium. So if you took all those cells out of your body, Howard you could cover easily 5 tennis courts.
Bradley: And you can only have a heart attack or ischemic stroke after that tennis court has to fail 2 times. The first failure's one that allows the bad stuff to seep through into the wall of the artery. Like all the cholesterol stuff because that is what forms plaque cholesterols at the core of it. But it has to seep through and then the second failure has to happen and that's where that tennis courts gets so inflamed that it cracks or breaks and as soon as that happens your body wants to put a scab on it just like if you cut your skin. So you’re immediately going to start forming a clot there. And that clot can become so big in a relatively short period of time, literally in seconds it can totally obstruct the flow of blood to the heart or the brain. You're having a heart attack or stroke.
Howard: And that would be a stroke?
Bradley: So if it's in the brain it's a stroke. Yeah if it's...So anyways.
Howard: If it's in the heart what is it?
Bradley: Heart attack. Yeah. So we have.. that's the best test for the tennis court. But you also want to know is that hot is it inflamed underneath the tennis court where that cholesterol collects and you build up what we call the plaque in the wall of the artery. Is is hot there? Well we have a blood test for that? It's called Lipoprotein Associated Phospholipase A2 the Plaque 2 test. And it's so good that the FDA approved it in December 2015 to be run on all adults whether or not you know they have disease because it’s such a predictor of heart attacks. So the plaque 2 tells us if it's hot in the wall. And then we have another test we nicknamed the joker, myeloperoxidase because this thing can inflame the tennis court it can flame it underneath the tennis court. And if it's elevated all bets are off. It doesn't matter how great you’re sleeping, whether or not you have periodontal disease what your cholesterol is, your blood pressure. You want an ambulance outside with the engine running and a sober driver. That's how bad myeloperoxidase is. So we measure those tests routinely on our patients to make sure their not going to have an event. All you have to do to keep them from having a heart attack or strokes, keep the artery cold. But one of the things that can fire it up is high risk periodontal pathogens. So we're collaborating all the time with your dental colleagues because they have to take of that they have to diagnose it and take care of it. And then in terms of endodontic disease, it's possible that endodontic disease is triggering almost half of all the heart attacks. And the study that would...
Howard: So you have to write that article for Dentaltown. Will you please write that article for Dentaltown because I've got a friend local who's a rhinologist, and a lot of the times people are coming in for sinuses. They’ve taken scopes up there and they've had a failing root canal for 20 years and there's yeast infection all over the tooth. Same thing with implants and the dentist you know… what’s sacred to a dentist is the two elephant tusk teeth. So he wants to do a sinus lift and pack the sinus with cal bone and titanium and whatever the hell. And the ENT's are saying, will you stay out of my damn sinus and hook that bridge to those 2 elephant tusks. There is a lot of failing root canals and hopefully 3D imaging the CBCT but you just said a very powerful statement. If that was the title of your article, it would be the most read article in dentistry in years. That..
Howard: What did you say, failing...repeat it.
Bradley: Well the endodontic disease potentially is triggering around the half of all the heart attacks. And that was the study that was published in circulation in American Heart Association Journal about 2 years ago but Doctor Pessi P E S S I.
Howard: Can you find that.
Bradley: And he took a hundred and one people having a heart attack. So they're having a heart attack so he goes in with this little scope and he finds the blood clot that's blocking the flow of blood so he sucks it out. And he also sucks out arterial blood from a different part of the body. Then he analyzes those 2 samples with DNA for oral pathogens. He found the clots 35% of them had the germs that caused periodontal disease, 76% of the clots have the germs that caused endodontic disease, the strip bug. And then he looked at 9 of the clots under electron microscope, all 9 of them he found bits and pieces of oral pathogens. Then he randomly selected 30 of the 101 patients and did imaging of their teeth. Half of them had periapical abscesses. And if that was the case their clot was 13 times more likely to contain that strip endodontic germ. So the basic conclusion in this paper published in American Heart Association was a tremendous number of heart attacks are being triggered by endodontic disease. And the periapical abscesses that they found on imaging- no surprise I'm sure to you, most of them were in root canal teeth because of course the patient has no clue, gets going on. They don't feel anything until they get their heart attack.
Howard: How do you spell pessi?
Bradley: P E S S I. If you want us to just write an article for Dentaltown just there's nobody ever invited us too..
Howard: Oh my God. If you wrote a deal- what you just said, that would send a lightning bolt through our industry. The rhinologist that I know thinks that equal percentages of people that you just said, there were perial causes heart attacks is that they think they have chronic allergies. They say ‘you know I didn't have allergies where I used to live. I moved to Phoenix now I have allergies’ because that's just the first thing they anchor to. They don't realize they have a root canal that's draining into their sinus and failing for years and years and years.
Bradley: Yeah. So one of the things we want from the dentists that we collaborate with when the patient has any root canals, we want 3D cone beam imaging of that tooth and we do have studies , I’m sure you’re aware of them, that show that much greater accuracy of making the diagnosis with 3D cone beam than any other type of imaging, any other digital imaging even. So, we want to get that. So, if the dentist that they’re seeing... of course it’s expensive equipment so a lot of dentists don't have it in their office but they always have a specialist they can refer....
Howard: I know and those specialists, they’re always saying that dentists cookies and treats on Valentine’s and Christmas and Hanukah and Passover and, dentist doesn't realize that if you call up your periodontist or oral surgeon, say, “Can I send patients over you?” You charge them for the CBCT, you build their insurance. A Lot of the oral surgeons bill medical anyway so a lot of the medical insurance covers it and you don’t need a $100 000 CBCT. Just like when you go to your physician, he doesn’t have an MRI. He sends you to an imaging place and they take an MRI or a CAT scan. So, Ryan, was that.. You found it? So you found two articles: Bacterial Signatures and Thrombosis Aspirates a Patient with Myocardial Infarction by Pessi..
Howard: —in 2013.
Bradley: Oh, that is long ago.
Howard: And the other one. Let’s see what the other one is. The other one... thanks, Ryan. oh, wow.
Bradley: 2013, oh my gosh. Time goes too fast.
Howard: So, yeah, will you please write an article on this for Dentaltown?. And also We have put up an... we started online dental continued education. We have 417 courses, they’ve been viewed almost a million times. If you’ve already got, most of all of our courses are an hour but if you’ve already got 17 hours a content, one great marketing might be to put an hour of it up on Dentaltown and if they want to see the other 16 hours, they can go to your website or whatever, or you could put the whole thing up there but this is so important because, I mean... you know. So, if you put an online CE course on Dentaltown, it’d would be... and you’d sell a lot of books too.
Bradley: Oh, we can do that. We actually have 3 hours worth of CE on a global platform now, so we could reach the hundreds of thousands of dentists around the world and we priced it extremely low because we know a lot of these dentists probably don’t have great incomes, and they can access those three easily by going the https://bd.wcea.education. So, they can get three but we can make some for you too if you want.
Howard: If you already got the content, I’ll just put the same thing on Dentaltown and just marketing you. It’s just different...
Howard: I mean, you know, it’s just a different market. But, yeah, if you’ve already got that, I’d just put it on Dentaltown just so you build your brand with the people who need to know this the most.
Bradley: Yeah. Okay. Great.
Howard: I do... I read your book on [inaudible]. And I got to tell you, it was a great name of that book because everybody sitting around me was asking me if it was a good book, if I thought, you know, it was informative,this and that. It makes you realize that people know that this is, as serious as a heart attack. So why do you think everybody fears cancer more than a heart disease? Have you noticed that?
Bradley: Well, because probably we’ve gotten so good at treating the end-stage disease like heart attacks. So you have a heart attack, ok, big deal. They put a stent in, they bypass you, they give you a new heart, they give you an artificial heart but people don’t realize that their quality of life after that is never the same and if you’re having a heart attack, you’re not just going to get disease in the coronary arteries. You are going to be getting disease in the brain, your risk of dementia is going to go up, your kidneys are taking a hit, you’re more likely to get kidney failure. If you’re a man, this should be important, you’re more likely to get erectile dysfunction because that is mainly arterial disease and you certainly don’t want amputations. So, we like to... we know that our work keeps the arteries well throughout the whole human body and we’re very prejudiced and biased. We believe there’s nothing more important for the maintenance of the quality of life for a human being than the highways that supply every cell in your body with nutrition and oxygen. So, that’s the work we do as... I mean establishing and maintaining arterial wellness. And that’s the most important thing you can do for a human. But, cancer, we don’t have, you get end stage disease now with a lot of cancers and they can’t cure it. So, that’s probably why they fear it more but heart attacks and strokes are number one and dementia is rapidly growing. It’s one of the fastest growing diseases, that and Alzheimer’s. And my partner and I have talked about it. We can’t think of anybody in the last 10 years who's developed dementia or Alzheimer’s because now, they are publishing all sorts of studies of course showing that’s highly related to arterial wellness.
Howard: And I think the worst part of -our healthcare system is upside down and so many people believe “well if I get all this heart disease, I’ll just go in there and get a stent or a bypass.” And they don’t realize that that’s the biggest part of the pipe. The 60000 miles of pipe has the same disease.
Bradley: You got it.
Howard: But doctors get a hundred grand to do a bypass on the big kitchen sink pipe in the heart and the patient goes home and says, “well I’m glad I got a stent, I got a... now, I’m all good.” What about the other 60000 miles of pipe that wasn’t replaced? And the doctors get this $100 000 reward for a 4 hour surgery and I don’t even... I don’t think that’s the solution. Do you?
Bradley: The Chinese, in some regards, are way ahead of us because they published in a medical textbook 2200 years ago, “a superior healthcare provider prevents disease. A mediocre healthcare provider treats disease and then an inferior healthcare provider treats the full-blown disaster that occurs from the disease.” And our system was set up to reward the inferior healthcare providers more than the superior. The superior healthcare providers arguably in medicine anyway are like the pediatricians. Well they’re the lowest paid of all medical doctors..
Bradley: So we’ve gone backwards but it’ll take time and a lot of effort to flip it, Right?. Not going to flip that overnight.
Howard: So say that again. The superior healthcare provider prevents disease. Is that how you started it?
Bradley: Right. Prevents disease. A mediocre healthcare provider treats disease before it’s full blown and then an inferior healthcare provider treats the full-blown disease. That’s like wait till you have a heart attack or stroke and then we’ll do some heroics and hopefully save you, give you a new heart, stent or whatever, and our system was set up to reward the inferior healthcare providers much more than the superior or mediocre providers.
Howard: Yeah, the and what’s even more sad is the United States spend 17% of its GDP on healthcare and doesn’t even cover tens of millions of people. It’s the number one cause of personal bankruptcy and...
Howard: And then you go to the Taiwan system, which studied all the other systems and they do it for 1700$ and have the same outcomes. You can only find their outcomes for their entire population for 1700 a year if it’s the same outcomes for Mayo Clinic and Cleveland Clinic.
Howard: Not Beaumont Texas and Parsons Kansas. I mean... it’s just... and then when you tell that to an American, they start thinking you’re a socialist, communist, crazy man and you’re like, well dude, everyone in your family you know... it’s just you can’t rationalize with someone who doesn’t, open up their mind. You say, “well, does your grandma want to quit Medicare? I thought your grandma likes Medicare.” “Oh she loves Medicare.” “Well why don’t you do that to the whole country as 1700 a year?” It’s just a base. If you don’t want it, you don’t have to have it but you could cover everyone for ...what do you think of the Taiwan Model? What do you think about that?
Bradley: I’m not familiar with the Taiwan model in detail but I do know it’s much more cost efficient to prevent disease than it is to treat the full blown...
Howard: Well, the Taiwan Model was after World War II...a bunch of... after World War II in the reconstruction, they said, “We can’t rebuild society if everybody’s sick and stupid”. So let’s really put a lot of money into national health insurance and education. And Churchill was preaching that message, and 20 countries did it. Well, they all did it differently and any businessman knows that the devil’s in the details. It’s all in the very details. Well, Taiwan was the last country to come on board and they just did it 10 years ago. So, they studied all the details and they said the only thing they learned from America is what not to do and then they took the best parts of Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Britain, all those countries and they designed a system and basically you can only find outcomes that high on Mayo Clinic patients.
Bradley: Yeah. Well that’s wonderful. It sounds...
Howard: Yeah. But there’s no chance, Americans would do that.
Bradley: But yeah my partner and I, you can imagine we stay very passionate about what we specialize in for numerous reasons. Again, heart attack, stroke are still at the top of the billboard for death and disability. They have been for a hundred years. They don’t deserve to be. We have the technology and knowledge now to take them off the top. And then from the financial aspect, cardiovascular disease is the number one healthcare cost. It’s cardiovascular disease. So, maintaining the wellness of the artery could potentially save this country hundreds of billions of dollars every year in healthcare costs hundreds of billions.
Howard: Right but the lobbyist don’t care. They just want to sell stents and I mean, they’re....
Bradley: We’re making progress. Well, you may want to join us, we have our Bale Doneen Method reunion, where providers who’ve taken our course. we all get together once a year and this year we’re having it in New Orleans, November 3rd and 4th, and we’re we’ve already arranged with the city of New Orleans to have the open parade. So, we’re going to have the Bale Doneen Method parade through the French Quarter. We’re going to end it in the cemetery. We’re going to do a memorial for all the people buried there due to cardiovascular disease and pledge to keep going until we take this off the list as the number one cause of death, disability, and the highest financial burden this country has. It’s going to be fun. You should come down there and march with us, Howard.
Howard: Yeah, I might, you know... email me those details right now. So, to find a doctor that does your method, you go to Bale Doneen. Oh and say to Ryan where he can find the just...you don’t have to spell out the letters...tell Ryan where you can find those - your 3-hour online CE course. It’s...
Bradley: Yeah, that’s the https://bd.wcea.education.
Howard: And my homies, if they want somebody who does the Bale Doneen Method, they go to Bale like Bale of hay, Doneen with a D. DONEEN.com and then those three horizontal slashes that means menu and one of the menus is ‘find a provider’ and now you got a map how much... Now when you go to those providers, do you take Medicare? Medicare Insurance, is it a cash? How much does the cost? How long does it take? Do you need to not eat the night before? fast? what do what do you need to do?.
Bradley: Yeah well, we don’t dictate to these providers exactly how they run their business. So, some of them take insurance, some of them don’t take insurance, some of them do a combination of insurance plus an additional fee. The bottom line to deliver this type of care, it takes some time. You know, a physician can’t walk in the room for 15 minutes and get the job done. So, there has to be proper reimbursement to make it work and everybody figures that out a little bit differently. So, you’d want to just contact the provider and talk to them about those details. We don’t have like a franchise. So, these...
Howard: Yeah, you have one in Tempe, you have one in Mesa. You got like a dozen in Scottsdale. I’m surprised you don’t have one in Ahwatukee, that’s where I live
Bradley: Well I need to find one. If you know a medical provider there, give them the book, if they’re interested, they can come to our course.
Howard: You know, I was going to give my book to my physician that I’ve used forever and I left it. After I read it, I finished it, I put it in the backseat cover in front and I left it on the airplane.
Bradley: Oh no you...
Howard: You know who sent me a copy of that book?
Bradley: What’s that?
Howard: You know who sent me a copy of that book?
Howard: Bruce Baird.
Bradley: Oh, yeah, I know Bruce really well.
Bradley: We’re really actually looking to work with Bruce quite a bit. He’s a great guy. Yeah.
Howard: Yeah, he’s a great guy. He’s always been a pioneer. I mean he was he was the first dentist I’ve ever met that built an office that collected 4 million a year. He’s just an amazing man. He’s got so much energy.
Bradley: Yeah, he is, he’s been to our course. he’s been to our two-day course and I think he’s planning to come to the next one in Seattle. It’s October 6 and 7. But about half the audience are on the dental side, about half are on the medical side, and if anybody listening wants to get in depth with our method, that two-day course is a way to do it. If a dentist and a medical provider from the same community attend a course at the same time, hey, away you go. Everybody speaks in the same language, you can refer back and forth and keep the people in your community well from an arterial standpoint.
Howard: If you want to read his book, it’s on amazon.com. It’s called Beat the Heart Attack Gene: The Revolutionary Plan to Prevent Heart Disease, Stroke, and Diabetes. He has 102 5-star reviews, that’s just incredible. I only have fifty on mine. I must have wrote about the wrong subject- business. But I read the book. It’s a great book. You talked about gum disease, you had a checklist. I mean, it’s just something that if you have grandchildren, you got to start getting serious about this stuff. I mean, you know, you want to see them graduate from high school and it’s just amazing. What else do you think the dentists listening to you should know or do?
Bradley: Yeah. I think if they read the book, that should pique their interest to want to...
Howard: They should read the book and then they should go to Bale Doneen and find a physician in their area that basically you’ve certified him or they’ve read your book or how..., what does this...
Bradley: Yeah. Great comment, great question. We’re working on a certification process right now but it’s not there. So, all it denotes at this point in time is they took the two-day course, they’re familiar with the method. Exactly how they are applying that, we don’t know in every case. We do have some people that have purchased what we call our toolkit. What we know really well that they are definitely doing a great job but we need to grow that from the medical standpoint.
Howard: Yeah. I want to live because you know, I’m single so I’m enjoying life. I know a lot of my friends are married and they’re... that’s just about the only thing that keeps them going. They just think one night, they’re going to reach in that refrigerator for a hunk of cheese and a beer and fall over dead of a heart attack. But you know, I’m single and got two grandkids. So, I actually want to live.
Bradley: Well if you’re single, you want the arteries throughout your body to stay well, right?
Howard: Yeah and the American healthcare system, like you say, it’s a broken system that treats disease and how many... I mean, everybody in the world has a grandmother says, “I can’t believe it he had a physical last month and the doctor said he’s all good. Then he dropped dead of a heart attack.” How many times have you heard that in your life?
Bradley: Oh yeah, now that’s what started me down the path over 20 years ago from my family practice because, I would have that happen with my patients. I’d send them to a cardiologist, they’d put them up on treadmill. So they’re fine. A week later, they’re in there having a heart attack. I’d say, “something’s missing here.”
Bradley: And the fact is, we love cardiologists and they do an excellent job but they’re trained in treating that end stage disease. They don’t have the training in prevention.
Howard: Do you find the doctors open-minded about prevention? or do you find them not resisting change? or do you find them just insurance driven and just trying to make a living to just drilling after what’s ever billable to Medicaid and Medicare?. What what’s your assessment of the of your MD colleagues?
Bradley: Yeah, that’s an excellent question, and really, I think, to some degree, all of your comments can apply. It depends on the individual person. Certainly, we have more and more cardiologists that get excited about what we’re doing and get on board. My partner down in Texas at my is a great cardiologist and my partner in Spokane, Amy Doneen, her most recent partner is a cardiologist, quite renowned cardiologist out of Spokane. So, you find that happens, they get excited about it, they want... Then there are others that say, “hey look that’s not what I’m trained in and I’m good at putting in stents and leave me alone. That’s really all I want to do and they’re certainly a need for that right now, right?” But there’s like, “hey I’m so busy putting out fires, I haven’t got time to prevent them”.
Howard: And that’s how dentistry was. I remember the first guy that was going around talking about dental hygiene to prevent disease. Almost every dentist listened to him say, “I am so busy pulling teeth, doing dentures. I don’t got time for this prevention bullshit”. You know, this...
Howard: And it was, it was amazing. He actually went down in an airplane but he was the guy going around telling everybody, “I know you’re busy, I know you’re busy pulling teeth and doing dentures but can’t we just put a chair over here. Maybe the next generation doesn’t have to have wooden teeth”.
Bradley: Yeah. What’s the exciting thing is it’s moving in that direction now, Howard. I mean, more and more publications and we have several of them out there clearly demonstrate the science is available now to establish and maintain the wellness of the arteries and when you do that. Again, you don’t have heart attacks, you don’t have strokes, you don’t get dementia, you don’t get erectile dysfunction, you don’t lose your kidneys, you don’t need amputations. I mean that’s like, “hey!”
Howard: No, I think you just did a HIPAA violation by reading my health record in front of everybody live on my podcast. I was... you just read my entire health history. So speak of that, what if some homies are listening and says, “You know, I give up. I did everything wrong, I’m 65.” Is any of this...if someone had done everything wrong and was 65, is any of this irreversible? Does any of this clean up or you kind of... I mean you can’t go to a burned down house and say, “I will put a fresh layer of paint on this.”
Bradley: Yeah, no, you can absolutely doesn’t matter what the age is. We have patients in their 90s. I believe Amy has a patient in their hundreds. So you know, you can stop activity on the wall of the artery at any age.
Howard: And then... that wouldn’t. So, no matter how bad it was and no matter how old you were, you can make it better and extend your life!.
Bradley: Oh, absolutely.
Howard: See that, Ryan? You got hope, buddy. Ryan is 24, he’s already throwing in the towel.
Bradley: No, I mean it’s really exciting though. We live in an exciting age and one of those publications we have that was in a peer-reviewed journal states that title is we now live and an era where you can guarantee arterial wellness. Now how exciting is that?!
Howard: And it’s amazing how smart you can be and still be humbled by the self-experience!. We had a President Bill Clinton at a bypass and he literally thought he got it fixed and was all good and then within 10 years, he was back for another one, and he’s a lawyer, was the President. He studied the hell out of it. But one of the things he did, I want you to touch on his diet, he changed to vegan. Do you think... I’m sure all fat people like me want to know most, “what how am I going to have to change my diet?”
Bradley: Yeah, we based dietary advice on genetics. So, there are individuals, if they’re ApoE4 gene and they’re haptoglobin 1 where vegan diet could be wonderful. But if they’re ApoE2 and they’ve got haptolobin 2 gene, it wouldn’t be the best diet for them. So, it depends on the genetics. We personalize our care with each individual patient through the use of genetics and that menu of course just keeps on expanding. But there’ll never be a one-size-fits-all diet. It’s not going to happen because we’re all genetically different. So, [inaudible] ApoE4 gene, you need a low fat diet. Well vegan diet and that can be a great diet potentially for that.
Howard: I’m 100% vegan my entire life. I only eat animals that only eat grass. Yeah. I will not eat a cow unless that it eats grass. So, what about obviously obesity? Belly fat around your waist, how do you recommend getting... what is the best way to get rid of belly fat? And how big of a factor is that to inflamed arteries and heart attack gene?
Bradley: Yeah. Certainly, it can be a significant contributor but one of our colleagues and a fan of our method, actually Dr. Chip Liev, who is a cardiologist out of the Ochsner clinic down in New Orleans. He’s published the book, "The Obesity Paradox". And there is paradox with obesity, but the bottom line that I want to get across from his work is what trumps fat, is fit. So, somebody can be overweight and even obese. But if they’re physically fit, it greatly mitigates the potential harm from that obesity, doesn’t totally but it can make a huge dent in it.
So, you can take somebody who’s thin, who’s not fat at all. Looks on the surface in great shape and if they’re not fit, their risk for a heart attack and strokes can be much greater than the one who’s overweight and fit. So, fitness, exercise, you know lifestyle is the number one way to beat the heart attack, stroke, dementia risk. To keep the arteries well, we need a good lifestyle and absolutely a critical element for that is to be physically active. Now we don’t require patients of course to go out and run marathons or anything but we want them all to get no less than 22 minutes of equivalent of a brisk walk every day and do some resistive training twice a week. But fitness does trump fat. Okay.
Howard: So that guy that you talked about.. the writer of that book, is he a friend of yours?
Bradley: Yes, he’s an excellent cardiologist.
Howard: You know, it’s so sad so many of the greatest legends in dentistry, now, they’re gone and they didn’t leave... they just lectured, and there’s no digital, there’s no thing in Youtube. They’re just gone. I’ve already have a couple of podcasts. They’re gone now. Bruce Bob Ipson, founder of DenMag. Carl Misch, one of the greatest implantologists in the world, if not the greatest and Bruce Barkley. I think it was Bruce Barkley. Let me...
Howard: Let me see if that’s right.
Bradley: Did you ever have...
Howard: Bob Barkley.
Bradley: Did you ever have Keis on?
Bradley: Yeah he was a legend. I mean he was a pioneer, will those periodontal pathogens. Yeah.
Howard: Yeah. At 30, Bob Barkley and you... kind of remind me... I mean you are Bob Barkley, a 30-year old memorial to Bob Barkley and his paradigm busting work in preventive dentistry. Participating, he was flying around the world and he went down in an airplane in 1977, aged 46, in a tragic small plane crash, in West Central Illinois and... but he was the guy, really... I mean obviously, every great person stands on the shoulders of a lot of great people that went before him but he was the guy going around, trying to get all these dentists, pulling teeth all day, and making dentures that you know, okay...please consider this hygiene department. And now you’re the guy running around saying, “I know you can get a stand, I know you can get bypass on that one little big pipe in your heart. Even if you get a quadruple bypass, you still got 60 000 miles of pipe that ain’t going to get a stent.” And you’re the guy going around saying, “I know you can get $100,000-bypass that Medicare, Medicaid have paid for but I really don’t know you really should try to prevent getting that.”
Howard: Instead of looking forward to it.
Bradley: Yeah and you can with the right information, you can absolutely can again...
Howard: I seriously, look forward to a bypass because I assume it comes with a 6-week vacation. I mean I just want a 6-week off and if takes a bypass to get that, I would just... but yeah. So, kudos to you. I can’t believe we talked for an hour. We’re 3 minutes over time. I could talk to you all day. Also, send me, email me, I need to get you to speak at our annual towny meeting. We’ve an annual meeting every year for 15 years in Vegas. But you know, there’s a lifestyle change. We’ve actually changed the meeting from Vegas to Orlando because now, I got two grandkids and they don’t want to go drinking in Vegas and gambling. They want to see Mickey Mouse. And...
Bradley: I’ve got granddaughters too, and we have to bring them along if you invite me down there.
Howard: Oh yeah, I swear they... What’s that one Disney movie that Taylor’s watched 15 times? Frozen. I mean, my God!. She could watch that a ...it’s weird how those little kids will watch the same Disney movie a hundred times but yeah. Give me your boy from Louisiana on the diet book. Give me your partner in crime. We’ll go back to back and we’ll try to really try to promote you in getting physicians, dentists to start understanding the oral systemic link between these 5 bacteria found in periodontal disease that are causing a third, or associated with a third of the heart attacks. But more importantly, starting to realize that when you have a root canal, you take out the early warning nerve system that there’s a problem and these draining chronic root canals are turning out to be a disaster and I almost think that every person over 50 who’s has a bunch of endos should be referred to an endodontist with a CBCT and just ask the endodontist, “Are these all good?” Because some of those need to be removed and replaced with an implant or something.
Bradley: No, absolutely. I agree.
Howard: And everybody listening who's looking for a speakers at their state meeting, please, start asking around your rhinologist and ear, nose, and throats because, anytime you meet one, and you tell them you’re a dentist, they’re all... you’re going to get your ass chewed for about 30 minutes. And, they see this all... So that oral systemic link, dentists don’t run around with rhinologist. Rhinologists don’t speak at study clubs and this oral systemic link means we’re going to have to get connected to the entire value chain of healthcare.
Bradley: Absolutely. No, you’re critical element and wellness of a human being for sure, we always state, good health starts with a healthy mouth. That’s where it all starts. So the...we really don’t even quite understand why there is dentistry and there’s medicine. We’re all healthcare providers. And we really love the hygienists. They don’t get enough credit for what they do. They’re the ones treating that periodontal disease.
Howard: Yeah, they’re the ones that...
Bradley: So, we love hygienists as well as the dentists. We also love the dentist’s office staff because, you have to have your whole team in place for this oral systemic connection. You know, you don’t want the patient leaving after having say a salivary DNA test for the periodontal pathogens are leaving the office and the little receptionist says, “Oh they’re doing that test on you too huh?.” You know, you want them saying, “Wow, are you lucky. You’re going to find out what germs you have in there because that’s what drives the risk for a heart attack and stroke. Lucky you came in here.” That’s what you want that office staff saying. So, you need the whole team on board. Absolutely, They can’t be the dentist, I know I’m talking to dentists I don’t want to piss them off, but if they don’t have a proper team in place, they’re going to be dead in the water. I don’t care how much they know. That makes sense?
Howard: It makes total sense and I think this oral systemic link is... it’s starting to take off. There was a lot of skepticism. And that’s good. It’s always good to be a skeptic especially in a time when fake news and all that stuff. The evidence is starting to get massively overwhelming. And I look forward to you putting a 3-hour online CE course on Dentaltown and maybe. Because that’s really changed contain education. You don’t have to fly across the country and go sit in a building you can just pull it up on your iPhone and then throw it up on your Apple TV and sit there in your living room drinking a beer, smoking while watching this video on online on how to prevent cardiovascular disease.
Bradley: Talking to an artery yeah, hopefully not smoking out.
Howard: They’re going to smoke and drink Bud Light while they watch your3 hour video on how to prevent a heart attack. Okay, thank you so much today for coming on the show. I just think you’re amazing and thanks. Shout-out to Bruce Beard who was talking on this show earlier that everybody should read your book and look forward to doing a lot a lot with you.
Bradley: Well, Howard, you’re going to save hundreds of thousands of lives, man. Karma’s going to be on your side.
Howard: Alright. Well, alright buddy, thanks for all you do.
Bradley: Thank you. I had fun.
Howard: I’d rather talk to you than Christian Bale any day.
Bradley: I don’t know about that. Okay.