Nicole Noble is currently in her first year of Dental School at Midwestern University Glendale campus. She is an AZ native who grew up in Show Low, AZ with 5 siblings. Her father graduated from University of Pacific in 1975 and opened a practice in Show Low where Nicole started assisting him during high school. She went on to pursue marriage, motherhood and a cosmetology license. After 4 years working in a salon, she decided dental assisting was where her heart was. She was an assistant at an office in Glendale for many years, and after her divorce in 2010, she was inspired to become a dentist. She had her heart set on Midwestern University. A single mother of 3 girls she was working part-time and taking classes full-time. It took her 6 years, an AS, BS and MA and 3 application cycles to finally be accepted at MWU. She is truly living her dreams now and she feels very strongly that girls and women should be encouraged and supported in dental careers. She is interested in giving back to the community by working in the non-profit realm to provide dentistry for single mothers. She strives every day to inspire her daughters to work hard and set goals to make themselves better people.
VIDEO - DUwHF #966 - Nicole Noble
AUDIO - DUwHF #966 - Nicole Noble
Howard: It is just a huge honor today to have Nicole Noble in the house. Thank you so much for coming by.
Nicole: Thank you, Howard.
Howard: You’re a D1 student at Midwestern.
Howard: We’d like to talk to people at every part of the journey. We’ve done a thousand shows now, and we’ve done like twenty-five endodontists, twenty-five paediatric dentists, we’ve done every one of the nine specialities, we’ve done all this, but... in the journey… I’m so honored that you came, first year of dental school.
Howard: First of all it takes a lot of guts. Most people in first year of dental school, “I’m too scared to go on the deal.” But I wanted you to come on because number one, the older guys need to know how you think because they’re trying to employ you as an associate when you get out of school. Everybody wants to know how everybody is in the journey. So let me read your bio.
Howard: Nicole Noble is currently in her first year of dental school at Midwestern University, Glendale campus. So I’m right here in Phoenix right now, in our home and Glendale is about… how long did it take you drive from Glendale?
Nicole: About an hour.
Howard: About an hour. Glendale, Arizona. That’s where the University of Cardinals stadium is.
Nicole: It’s nearby. Yes.
Howard: The hockey stadium, the Coyotes. She’s an Arizona native who grew up in Show Low, Arizona with five siblings. Her father graduated from University of Pacific in 1975 and opened a dental practice in Show Low where Nicole started assisting him during high school. She went on to pursue marriage, motherhood and a cosmetology licence. After four years of working in a salon, she decided dental assisting was where her heart was. She was an assistant at an office in Glendale for many years, and after her divorce in 2010, she was inspired to become a dentist.
She had her heart set on Midwestern University. A single mother of three girls she was working part-time and taking classes full-time. It took her six years, an AS, BS and MA and three application cycles to finally be accepted at MWU, Midwestern University. She is truly living her dream now and she feels very strongly that girls and women should be encouraged and supported in dental careers. She is interested in giving back to the community by working in the non-profit realm to provide dentistry for single mothers. She strives every day to inspire her daughters to work hard and set goals to make themselves better people.
Her daughters are seventeen, fourteen and twelve. The reason I invited her to come on the show is because, oh my God, it was love at first tweet. I tweeted the speakers for the townie meeting and this little D1 girl replies back, ‘ten men one woman, come on, Howard, you can do better than that.’ I thought, ‘I’m already in love with this girl’. So I said, ‘you’ve got to come on this show’. So what did that tweet mean to you? When you saw that?
Howard: It obviously touched a sore nerve.
Nicole: Well, what I see lately is there’s kind of a push with feminism to get more exposure in the sciences. As women we have panels that are all men and they’re starting to call them ‘manels’.
Howard: Never heard that word. Are you talking about in dentistry or just in society?
Nicole: Science in general, and technology, and dentistry obviously falls under that quite a bit. So there’s just not enough representation of women, and you did have more than one woman on your tweet promoting the townie meeting. But most of them were dental hygienists, office managers.
Nicole: But all the men were dentists.
Howard: All the dentists were men.
Nicole: Well, yeah.
Howard: Yeah. Well all the dentists were men and the women on there were hygienists or consultants.
Nicole: When I tweeted that, like I said, my tweets are like a tree falling in the forest because I don’t expect anyone to ever read them. It’s more of a catharsis for me, and when you replied I just about died because it made me respect you quite a bit, because you’re actually motivated to change it. You’re seeing a problem, and you’re seeing, ‘okay, let’s fix this’, and you brought me into your team to have a discussion over email and I thought that was very amazing.
Howard: Yeah, I copied the tweet and tweeted to the staff. The reason I did it was because it was the first time in my whole life that I was ever…wrong. I mean I can’t even say it.
Howard: Because it’s the first time I ever said the word. But, yeah, I sent it to the panel. I like that manels. I sent that to the staff. So I can tell you on my journey when I was fresh from dental school, the senior class had one woman.
Howard: You know what her name was? Everybody called her man/woman.
Nicole: Oh my gosh.
Howard: Because no-one could really really tell if she was a man or a woman.
Howard: Then in my class, when I tell you the story you’re not going to believe it. So my dean, through the chancellor of the University of Missouri, was under a lot of political pressure to get these classes from all white men....
Howard: To half women, and ethnic minorities, and the whole nine yards. Basically if he didn’t have this quota of women, he was going to be fired. So on the first day of dental school he was going to be fired. So he went into the hygiene class, to the girls who did hygiene and said, ‘hey, any of you girls want to switch over to freshman year of dental?’ These girls raised their hand.
Howard: Then they were just moved.
Howard: A lot of people were really against that. When you tell a white male that there’s white privilege, they’re in complete denial.
Howard: That just means they don’t read, write, or have any empathy or sympathy. I mean you’ve got to start somewhere and I just think it’s a beautiful thing.
Howard: As much as people complain about America, the women in Saudi Arabia just got their right this year to drive a car.
Nicole: Right. Yeah.
Howard: Then in Iran they’re starting to take off the… what is it called?
Nicole: The hijab.
Howard: The hijab.
Nicole: Or the scarf.
Howard: The first ones were arrested.
Howard: But now that they’re sensing a mass movement, the government’s very… by the way I’m very romantically involved with the hijab. Is that how you say it?
Nicole: I think.
Howard: Because I went to catholic school. My two older sisters were nuns, they wore all that. Everytime I see a Middle Eastern woman wearing a hijab, I fondly think of all the nuns that taught me and my sister. My older sister Mary Kay who’s name is now Sister [inaudible 00:06:11], I mean she wears the same thing. To me it’s a very familiar look.
Howard: I actually like that look. You know you’ve gone to too much catholic school when you think it’s a rocking hot look. Your freshman class, what is it? Probably half men, half women.
Nicole: It’s about half and half, I would say. Yeah. We have some really remarkable women in my class, it’s been fun to be surrounded by such amazing people. I thought I was special, and then I got into dental school and now I’m like these people are amazing.
Nicole: They’re remarkable.
Howard: Every time I go on a charity dentistry event, last one I went to was in Mexico with about ten kids from AT Still, one before that was climbing Kilimanjaro with four or five kids from the local dental school. You spend time in these dental schools you’re like, ‘my God, this profession is awesome’.
Howard: Because leaving this profession in the hands of you kids, dentistry is probably in a better place then than it is today. I cannot tell you how many dentists practice today and think they’re all that and a bag of chips, and they couldn’t even get accepted in dental school today.
Nicole: Yeah, it’s hard. It’s very hard.
Howard: They got accepted in dental school with three two, three four.
Howard: Three six average. So many dentists out there, they couldn’t even get in.
Nicole: Yeah, it’s really hard, and I thought with all the experience that I had in dentistry as a dental assistant I would kind of be a shoe in, and then I was really humbled. Because when I was going through school I was, like I said, a mom and I was working part-time. So my GPA wasn’t anything to write home about, it was about three point two five. I took the DAT the first time and had about an eighteen, had that application. Immediately denied. But I kept trying.
Howard: Eighteen out of what? What is it? Thirty-two.
Nicole: I think it’s thirty.
Howard: A thirty.
Nicole: But nineteen is kind of like the base. I just thought, ‘well I have all this experience and I know a lot about dentistry, so that should count for something. But it didn’t really, so I kept going. Retook the DAT, raised my GPA, got into the masters program at Midwestern in Biomedical Sciences, and that’s when I realised that I really wasn’t ready with my undergrad degree. When I did that masters program it was so rigorous, it was the hardest thing I’ve ever done. But it prepared me for dental school in such a way that I know how to study now, I know so much more about the systems and the stuff that we’re studying in Basic Sciences now. But it is really difficult to get into dental school now.
Nicole: So we’re surrounded by a amazing people.
Howard: That’s another thing that dentists are always saying, ‘why do the dental schools keep raising their tuition?’ ‘Why do they keep opening up more schools?’ Because they can. Ten years ago the dental schools figured out that when they raise their tuition ten thousand a year, nothing happened on the supply side.
Howard: The same number of applicants.
Howard: So they thought, ‘well, I’m going to raise another ten thousand,’ and you think, ‘oh, they’re immoral, they’re bad, they’re whatever.’ Then what do you bitch about? That thirty years ago I used to send my claim to Delta of Arizona, and I set my own fees. Thousand bucks for a crown, they pay half. Now Delta tells ninety-five percent of the dentists their fee, and I think that fee in my office from Delta is like seven hundred or something. Well, if you could raise your crown fee from seven hundred to a thousand would you go do it? Yes. So why’re you being hypocritical to dental schools? Why do they do it? Because they can. If every dental school raise their tuition to a hundred and twenty-five thousand a year, so it would be half a million to go four years. They’d still fill all their classes with qualified candidates because there’s that much demand.
Howard: What percent of your classmates is daddy a dentist?
Nicole: I’m not really sure. My dad is a dentist.
Nicole: I think probably, if I were to spitball, maybe twenty percent. Fifteen percent.
Howard: Usually with dental schools it’s a quarter to a third.
Howard: Out of that, say quarter, what percent is dad paying the tuition?
Nicole: I have no idea.
Howard: It’s pretty high.
Nicole: I would imagine.
Howard: It’s pretty high.
Nicole: It’s pretty high.
Howard: Well all four of my kids got accepted to dental school, I mean I not even sure what they charge.
Howard: Because you just want them to go into the family business.
Nicole: Right. Yeah.
Howard: So basically what we’re saying, it’s very pricing elastic. What is price elastic? The price has a very elastic effect on demand. So a Lamborghini is a great car, but at three hundred thousand dollars they don’t even sell a hundred. So what do they sell more of? A Ford Taurus, because it’s thirty thousand. When your car is thirty thousand it’s a more selling car in America. When it’s three hundred thousand, it’s just some unique novel thing. So when you raise your price you are taxed or regulated, you get less of it. When you lower your price, unregulated, untaxed, you’ll sell more of it. It’s just simple economics.
If a man talks about a woman, he’s a sexist. If an Irish guy talks about other races, he’s a racist. I can’t say that like black people run faster than white people, that would be racism. But if you watch the Olympics everyone who’s ever got a gold in the hundred metre was not Irish. So I keep hearing all these men say that now that the class is half women it’s going to change everything, particularly they think that the DSO’s who want all these employees are going to fill it all with women, because women don’t want the hassle of owning their own business. They’d rather work at Heartland, or Pacific, or Aspen, because they’re going to have families and you’ve got three daughters.
Howard: So do you buy that? Because as a man, in my sexist thoughts I’m thinking, ‘well the ultimate super mother would be the woman running her own business.’
Howard: Because if your kid fell off her bike and was in the hospital you could just tell your staff, ‘hey cancel all my patients’.
Howard: Or you could hire an associate. I think a super mom would want full control and own her own business. Open interview this, do you think dentistry going from all males to half women, will that change the profession?
Nicole: Well, first of all there’s still quite a bit of inequality within dentistry. I think it was last May, the Journal of American Dental Association posted an article that there’s about on average a seventy thousand dollar disparity between male dentists and female dentists.
Howard: When was that study?
Nicole: It was in May of 2016 I believe, or May 2017.
Howard: May of 2016. In what journal?
Nicola: In JADA.
Howard: In JADA.
Nicole: Is it JADA?
Howard: Oh, I don’t know.
Nicole: I don’t know.
Howard: All I know is no-one reads it because I’ve been published in it four times.
Nicole: Have you?
Howard: To this date no-one’s ever come up to me and said, ‘hey, I read your article on JADA’.
Nicole: It’s like my tweets.
Howard: So when I was published the fourth time in JADA, I’m not making this shit up. I thought to myself, ‘you know what? Why has no-one ever mentioned that?’
Howard: So I said one day, ‘I’m going to talk to my homies I went to dental school with.’ I went to dental school four years living in the three storey house.
Howard: With five of the funniest guys in the world. So I just called them up and just shoot the shit, ‘hey what up’, ‘what up, George’ and we talk and everything and it never came up. So right at the end I said, ‘so by the way did you see my article in JADA?’ ‘No, really what is it?’ I’m convinced that no-one reads the damn magazine.
Howard: But anyway, so they said that male dentists made seventy-five thousand dollars more?
Nicole: On average. Yeah. They accounted for all the different things that they could think of, like males go into specialty more, oral surgery, endo are more male dominated. Like you were saying that women may want to stay home more, and they’re more altruistic, they want to go into community health more often. After they accounted for all that stuff there was still that huge disparity, and I think it’s once we get this fifty fifty equity with just the amount of dentists we’ll have some collective bargaining power with the women. We’ll be able to demand more for pay, and the other thing that bothers me a lot is disability insurance is forty-five percent higher for women.
Nicole: But why?
Howard: Because you guys drink and drive all the time. You’re just crashing cars all the way to work.
Nicole: We have lunch and learns all the time when I’m in school.
Howard: Did you ask to do them?
Nicole: I ask and they just say, ‘oh, women make more claims’.
Howard: Okay. So they’re actuarial.
Nicole: I tried to do a deep dive on researching that.
Howard: So email me that question, because we had Arizona’s… who’s that disability guy? Is Edward Cumetz a black headed guy? Yeah, so email me that.
Howard: I’ll reply back to you with his email.
Nicole: Yeah. Yeah.
Howard: Yeah, there it is right there.
Nicole: This is so [inaudible 00:15:25], we’re going to watch a podcast while we’re filming a podcast.
Howard: We’re on the podcast watching a podcast. This is the twilight zone.
Nicole: This guy.
Howard: So we get him in on that.
Howard: That would be a great article, maybe you and him could write up then.
Nicole: There we go.
Howard: So continue.
Nicole: Yeah, so if you have those two things together.
Howard: You make seventy-five thousand dollars a year less.
Howard: You pay forty-five percent more for disability.
Nicole: Pay more. Right, so it’s like I mean you think of this all the time. The trajectory of your life, when you’re working forty years how is that going to add up by the time you’re retiring? When you’re a woman dentist compared to a man dentist. So I’m right there with you saying women should be going for ownership for sure. There’s no reason why we shouldn’t. We can do that if we want to, and then you have more control over the situation and as far as like who you employ, you can treat your employees with more empathy because a lot of time dental assistants are female. So if you have a female doctor that you get to work for you might have more to relate, and that’s not always true, that’s a sweeping generalisation.
Howard: That’s why I changed. My favourite orthodontist in the world is Ann Marie Gorczyca, she’s in the Bay area, and when she went to ortho school she was the first woman.
Howard: She had to cringe a lot.
Howard: I mean it’s a very male environment, it was a cringing environment. Now she’s so excited because now she goes [inaudible 00:17:05] it’s almost all women.
Howard: So when I was little all the OBGYN’s were men, and now they’re all women. I’m predicting the first trillion dollar company to be Amazon, I think Facebook’s going to be contracting because I’ve already seen this already with MySpace and Friendsters and all that stuff. I’m predicting the first of the nine specialities in dentistry to go like OBGYN did, will be public health in pediatric dentistry.
Howard: I’ll tell you why. When anybody asks me what’s the major difference between men and women in dentistry, lecturing in fifty countries wherever there’s a lot of money you always find the men.
Howard: With suits and ties. So in America where there’s no money, like teaching.
Howard: It’s all women.
Nicole: Right. Right.
Howard: They do it from passion and the heart. When I go to very poor places like in Asia and Africa where there’s no money in dentistry, it’s all women. Just like ours is all teachers, and in meagre poor countries the men want to get into the government, and military where they get money and titles.
Howard: Power. So I think that translates back to trust, something that no-one wants to talk about in America is that women do not trust men. Period. I’ll give you three examples, if a woman’s engine light comes on and she goes into the place and he says, ‘oh you need a whole new transmission’. How many times does a woman think, ‘I wonder if I really need a new transmission?’
Nicole: All the time.
Howard: All the time.
Nicole: Yeah. All the time.
Howard: When you go in to have a oil change and it says right there on the sign nineteen ninety-nine oil change and you go I’ve got a twenty. He comes out here and he goes, ‘well we’ve got to change your air filter…’
Howard: ‘Flush your transmission’. What percent of the time do you call that bullshit?
Nicole: Like I need to see the air filter, is that actually my air filter?
Howard: There’s no trust. There’s no trust.
Howard: So when a man tells you, and you’re a woman and you have four cavities, and you’re like, ‘I just came in here for a cleaning’.
Howard: ‘He said I can’t have a cleaning, I’ve got to have a deep cleaning’.
Howard: ‘I’ve got four cavities’.
Nicole: That’s harsh.
Howard: ‘Dammit, I just want my teeth cleaned’. She’s not used to communicating that with her dad.
Howard: So she holds it in, doesn’t communicate and says, ‘okay’, and then she leaves and she never comes back. But when it’s a woman there and it’s Nicole, I say, ‘well, Nicole, I just want my teeth cleaned. I don’t think I need a deep cleaning’.
Howard: Well then she’s communicating, so you have engagement.
Howard: So then you can start going over your x-rays, and the digitals, and the periodontal, and the bleeding.
Howard: I just see that in the industry where you sell the invisible, whether it’s an auto mechanic, an oil change or a dentist. Like when I go in there and they say, ‘you need this’, I only go back to Lexus because the guy who sold me that car in 2004. When I first went in there he was single, then he was married, now he’s on his third kid. I just trust the guy.
Howard: I mean I grew up with five girls, five sisters playing Barbie dolls until I was twelve. I never changed a spark plug or any of that stuff.
Howard: So when you sell the invisible I think women dentists have a huge advantage, and they only look at the fact that the easiest way to divide the American market is half will pay out of pocket, and half will only do what the insurance says.
Howard: But half are scared and half aren’t scared, and I noticed with my four boys biological, I was their dad it was all great until they got hurt. When they come to dad and they’re bleeding I say, ‘come here’, and they’d run clear around me between my legs.
Nicole: Not you.
Howard: They’d go to mom.
Howard: Then mom would kiss it.
Howard: When they were scared or needing nurturing or loving it wasn’t the guy with whiskers.
Howard: It was soft mom.
Howard: I just think that half the market’s afraid of the dentist.
Howard: So if they’re looking out there in dental world and say, ‘I’m scared of the dentist’, they see Nicole and Grandpa. They’re going to you.
Nicole: It’s a no brainer.
Howard: Then if it’s a woman who says, ‘I don’t believe you’.
Howard: Who’s she more likely to tell that to? Me or you?
Nicole: Probably you if it’s a woman patient.
Howard: No, she doesn’t believe either of us.
Nicole: Oh yeah.
Howard: Who is she more likely to communicate that to? Me?
Howard: Me or you?
Howard: I mean women should crush this profession.
Nicole: Yes, we should and we will. It’s going to be great.
Howard: What do all women think when their air-conditioner goes out and George Brasil shows up at your door with a man with a suit and tie and says, ‘well I can’t fix your air-conditioner, you need a whole new one for eight grand’. What percent of mom’s say, ‘I don’t believe that?’
Nicole: I think all.
Howard: Yeah, all.
Howard: That’s something they don’t want to talk about.
Howard: I mean look at the Me2 Movement. I mean how did all these people not know about Harvey Weinstein? I mean how is this a secret.
Nicole: Yeah, it’s a fantastic conversation and I’m really glad that it’s happening.
Nicole: Because, like you said, these men that can’t see their privilege because privilege is invisible, and you don’t know that this is happening all around you unless it’s put up into your face sometimes.
Nicole: I feel sorry for my partner sometimes because he’s a white man.
Howard: Your partner.
Nicole: My husfriend I call him.
Howard: Your house friend, okay.
Nicole: We’re not married. I feel too old to have a boyfriend so I call him my husfriend.
Howard: Oh my God. It’s hilarious [inaudible 00:22:43].
Nicole: I made up the word. He’s a white man and he’ll hear me.
Howard: You’re racist.
Nicole: He’ll hear me talking about this whole thing and he can’t help but take it personal. It’s only been in the last year that he’s stopped taking it personal. I’m not talking about him, this is just in general. But it’s really good for men to hear about what it’s like to be a woman, and experience these things and we aren’t sweeping it under the rug anymore. We’re actually having a conversation about it and that’s always going to be a good thing. We can start moving the needle a little bit here only when we talk about it. So I’m really happy about that.
Howard: The men are victims too.
Nicole: Absolutely. Yes.
Howard: Because number one when you’re raised that way.
Howard: I don’t know how many times I’ve had this conversation. Girl gets out of dental school goes and work as associate for the man.
Howard: Works for him three years, buys the practice. For three years the old man would say to his dental assistant, ‘hey get me a cup of coffee’, and ‘can you order flowers for my wife?’ So then she buys the office and she goes, ‘will you get me a cup of coffee?’ They’re like, ‘what am I, your bitch?’
Howard: Anyway, why was that? Their dad would sit there in front of the TV and say, ‘grab me a beer’.
Howard: Mom would jump.
Howard: She’d tell dad, ‘go clean the dishes’.
Howard: He’d laugh.
Howard: But it’s really measurable, because in the United States for the first time ever you’re seeing a decrease life expectancy for white males.
Howard: All the other European white countries life expectancy is going up, but in America it’s going down.
Howard: A lot of it is the emancipation of men because you’re a male, there’s seven species of great apes. There’s humans, gorillas, chimpanzee, orangutans, bonobos. Bonobos is a female society, they’re matriarchs. All the rest are patriarchs.
Howard: We’re in a patriarchal society.
Howard: So when someone says why are all the president's men? Because we’re not bonobos. But when you look at the blue whales, the little female half the size is the head and the men swim on the outside. Women need to do a lot more research about bonobos.
Howard: Because all the way up to the industrial revolution, the man went to the job that we need a man, coal mining, manufacturing.
Howard: Made more money so they felt masculine.
Howard: Those jobs are disappearing and now his wife’s making more money, so he feels emancipated.
Nicole: Yes, there you go.
Howard: He feels emasculated.
Howard: He doesn’t feel manly. He gets biology 101.
Howard: In fact you know what many men have said to me in private? Where they’ve said it just feels weird and bad that his wife is a dentist and makes twice as much money as him.
Howard: I always say, with empathy, just don’t think about it while you’re vacuuming.
Howard: Just put your apron back on and load the dishwasher.
Howard: So they’re dying, their suicide rates going up.
Howard: The opioid addiction is multifactorial.
Howard: But one of those multifactorial causes is that the men are losing their jobs.
Howard: Out of the jobs hiring are hiring women who have different skill sets. Your bicep and your quads doesn’t matter that much in jobs.