Rod practices in Irvine, California. He graduated magna cum laude from Fairleigh Dickinson University School of Dentistry in 1978, and completed a GP residency at Newark Beth Israel Medical Center. Rod is an exciting and effective international lecturer and author of five popular clinical and dental marketing books. He has authored numerous articles in, and is frequently interviewed by dental journals and consumer magazines; has appeared numerous times on the covers of several widely-read dental journals in the USA; has been featured six times on national tape interview series; has been a consultant to several popular consumer magazines such as People Magazine and has been a feature writer for Oxygenwomen’s fitness magazine. He has been interviewed and featured numerous times in national media and was the personal dentist of the United States Men’s World Cup Soccer Team. Most recently Rod has been widely known for his KöR® Whitening System.
VIDEO - DUwHF #1370 - Rod Kurthy
AUDIO - DUwHF #1370 - Rod Kurthy
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Howard: it is just a huge honor today to be in the podcast studio with none other than Dr. Rod Kurthy my gosh the legend from dental town you've been my idol in my legend for so many years he's the founder and CEO of evolve dental technologies home of the core whitening system and perfect cigar solutions which I'm still not sure for perfect is there's no tea on the perfect so though how can perfect be perfect if you forgot the perfect tea again rod practices in Irvine California he graduated magna water from Farley Dickerson if you're Irish that means at the top of the class from probably Dixon University School of Dentistry in 1978 and completed a GP residency at Newark Beth Israel Medical Center rods 44 years of scientific research and development include laser and surgical periodontal bone regeneration endodontics surgery including bone regeneration and repair resort of lesions teeth whitening sensitivity development of several cosmetic techniques and impression techniques and even credible professional marketing techniques designed to attract only high quality patients his first participation and periodontal research was in 1976 the 200 year anniversary of America and teeth whitening in 1977 Dr. Cerf II is a recipient of many awards and accolades including the Mosby scholarship award FDU prosthodontics and pediatric dentistry Awards the Omnicon Kappa Epsilon national dental Honor Society gold key award and a commendation from the chief Attorney of the United States Department of Defense for his role in supporting military's family rights and disputes with insurance carriers Rhodes efforts were directly responsible for forcing Blue Cross to California to correct their explanation of benefit comments to conform to accepted practice possibly rods favor honor ever upon the only polling ever organized by dental town comm rod was selected as the most respected member of dental town by over sixty thousand of his peers I always love it when that these other magazines say top 100 speakers in dentistry can I see the survey oh man I see the math on that actually came right from the marketing department between 86 and 1993 oh no that was another deal that was I you on but you you have 10,000 posts on dental town you were one of the original you were one of the first Dirty Dozen on dental town yeah those days Dr. Rod Kurthy: very first day yeah it was exciting it was just an email group and as I was missing to you it was my very good longtime friend Howie rocks you know he contacted me and he said you know Howard is starting this thing and he asked me if I would be on there to talk about marketing and things like that and he said you you know you you want to go and chime in and help because we had done a lot together you know and he said you know he says Howard has been so fantastic to me he said I owe Howard everything and he said he said when we go on he said don't he says if you're gonna do this with me don't ask me any leading questions or anything about me promoting my own business he said this is gonna be just for Howard because Howard has helped me so much and how his opinion hasn't hasn't changed in all these years he's a girl of
Howard: he is a great guy and love that guy so um my gosh you um you have always been the leader of the pack in so many issues for further I mean that was a night that was in um you joined that in 2004 20 years just on dental - wasn't that 1999 well that's so funny because we didn't have programmed the member sense feature till okay yeah yeah so it went live on March 17 2000 so you're a member of March 17 mm yeah we were doing that in late 98 yeah I was I knew it was it was before that and but we were just you know we just had Ken Scott who you just talked to him in ago I mean we've always been a year behind on our programming you know everything everybody wants takes about a year to get out but my gosh um so I want to start with them I would say if when people talk to me about you probably the most associated thing you're associate with this core whitening yes and the first thing they want to know is what are those two you got two little dot things above the knee the T out on perfect are you are is English the second language for you
Dr. Rod Kurthy: it's a long story I'll try and make it as short as I can you remember that the technique I called it deep bleaching and oh my god on del town it went crazy and it and I came out in 2003 with my book called deep bleaching the holy grail of teeth whitening and everybody was going nuts over that and you know literally around the world and that's when you know the technique which really hasn't changed much at all since then was great and it was giving teeth really really white but what it was doing was it was enhancing the ability to whiten but it was also enhancing the negative effects like sensitivity and so people were experiencing a hell of a lot of sensitivity and everybody kept saying well you need to start your own company and create products you know lower sensitivity and all that kind of stuff so anyway we started the company in 2007 and by this time I'd had two different intellectual property law firms trying to get me a registered trademark on deep bleaching and we couldn't get it and the more money I spent the more frustration I you know I experienced and the USPTO the United States Patent and Trademark Office would not give me a registered trademark because they said that that first it was too generic deep bleaching to English words together and we don't like that and the other thing that they said that that made it specifically not available to receive a registered trademark was that the name deep bleaching was descriptive of the process and they've looked into it and they said yeah the process allows you to deep to bleach teeth more deeply so you can't have that so after tons of time what happened was I ended up in lawsuits a company in Australia two companies in the UK and one company in the United States were using the term deep bleaching and my name saying that they were the company the selling and of course they were not even close and try challenging companies like that when you don't own the registered trademark really really tough especially when it's international big big money and so you know that the marketing firm landmark yeah and we were working with our yeah they're one of our wonder wonderful people so we said we need to come up with a name to change deep bleaching to that we can get registered right away so anyway they worked on it that we had this huge team working on it and they came up with with 12 possibilities and then they gave them to us and for each one they had a whole paragraph explaining what it was about that that was cool why they why they had come up with that and they said we have given this to every employee on the team there at Landmark and they said we want you meaning you know my wife's myself and my daughter Shannon to look at them and individually we want you to choose without talking to each other well as it turns out every single person at Landmark my wife my daughter remark 360 yes Lynette it's now called landmarks at 360 yeah and so all of us selected core and I'll kind of go you know a lot of people think it has to do with my name because my initials are RK and this would be K and R transpose has nothing to do with it absolutely nothing to do with it it's funny at trade shows and things like that dentists will come up they'll say is a Dr. Corr around stark earthy so anyway core one of the things they suggested it was they say hey we can say core and then you turn around and you put an s on the end of it is rocks say hey we say core rocks which we've never done another thing was this is the name of the products and the products I suppose you could say are the core of the system so that's another thing also I don't know about anybody else out there but I at my age looking back you know over my years and maybe you know different perception now I always felt that products that came from Europe had were more solid with less marketing spin hype then products from the US projects from the US always had this huge marketing spin and they never performed like that and I wanted I knew we were going to be providing products that were the real deal and did everything that we said and so I wanted to have kind of a European Flair also I wanted to be seen as the designer and of what we do really the highest end and all really all the main designers come from Europe Kristin Dior and Louis Vuitton you all that and so that's where the unlife the two dots above the O came from is to give it a European Flair also by being only three letters with the brackets around it's a very attractive small logo and core is one syllable and sketchy and so that's it that's you know now everything I know about it
Howard: well you know it's very interesting because when you go to the European countries they don't have a marketing department and you go to a like IVA Claire thanks Ryan you go to like I haven't Claire not have like eighty guys with a PhD and then you go to American companies the same size and they don't have a single PhD but they have a person Kohl Center and a yeah then you go to China and my I have some glorious friends and China Ryan he's my best friend in China Godfrey there were they there they believe if you make it so cheap everyone have to buy it and Europe mostly Germans and Ferrari Austria Liechtenstein scant maybe a I'll build it so good it'll sell itself mm-hmm and then America is like like the Howey who works like Howard Klein a genius marketer landmark 3:6 he's like my god weekend week we were so good advertising we get we could sell ice cream and snow to Eskimos and I've always said that everybody needs to learn the other things Germans would do so well to learn how to make things lower cost Americans would do so well just to make something just kind of work I mean I think it was so funny and when I moved to Phoenix Arizona there was some there was like an 85 year old dentist who she left Nazi Germany to save her life Wow and we both she got here they wouldn't honor her dental license and she wouldn't got a license so we don't we don't expect we don't acknowledge a license from Germany I mean how they make mercedes-benz this is home with a Chrysler damn yeah we're not gonna let any mercedes-benz dentists come over to our country in a sight my god I bet she was she probably would have been the best dentist in Europe look at the lab techs yeah I mean they they have I mean there are lab techs there there there crown and bridge lab techs are like as good as our prosthodontist
Dr. Rod Kurthy: have you seen the Japanese lab techs and yeah in Japan they they have schooling over there up to the PhD level now I did a laboratory technology the first time I said
Howard: okay now there's a joke in America that you guys do kind of Bergers alginate it was not a joke but their alginate is stored like you're bleaching when they take alginate as serious as you take carbon made peroxide and it's so perfect and it's so mixed perfectly and the water is so exact that the lab techs over there said Japanese take better impressions with alginates that Americans can do without any vinyl polish law exciting because like you say they take that stuff serious and so there's only two countries that can make a car I mean come on I mean when someone comes up to you and say I know you're a big car buff what what are you driving now
Dr. Rod Kurthy: my daily driver is a v10 out er8 inaudi that's German yes yeah and my god owned by Volkswagen yeah owned by Volkswagen along with Bugatti and bitly and Porsche and a marry me
Howard: Americans I'm and like look at Boeing it's it's so I mean this it's so American it's vulgar you know I know yeah everybody thinks is the greatest country in the world and everything but everybody says it's the greatest country in the world it's just they're just telling you I've never gone to another country and so Boeing's headquarters is in Chicago they assemble the big thing in Seattle and the fuselage is made in Wichita Kansas and then you go to Honda and it's one campus and everybody's there so we're having lunch and rod says well how's your day going well I don't know who the hell designed that stupid windshield wiper but it's so stupid and rods thinking I designed the original what do you what are you talking you know I mean they're all there yeah everybody one one team were all there and they just knock it out of the park America the management doesn't even know what's wrong on the assembly line in Wichita Kansas in Seattle and then three planes have to fall out of the sky before you and the more you read about that mess they shouldn't even call it a Boeing scandal they should just call what is America doing what why I mean all the car companies do they assemble parts made from 30,000 other people and why because of the military contracts every congressman wanted is some company from Indiana to get in on the business oh so the military contracts fragmented the whole industry deal cuz everybody had to have a plan in a voting district so now we just make crap instead of just going back and putting it all together and that's kind of why I'm a big fan of owner-operated dental offices as opposed to DSOs well you know the the San Shannon made you a grant have you got a grant you though daughter's name is Shannon Shannon oh she's uh she's not married but if she said if she made you granddaughter and you had one would you want I'm serious I'm what do you think a DSO is gonna be okay or would you rather go to her owner-operated dentist and how would you weigh the decision between you're out there you're a turnip in the bedrock of the Pacific Dental with with Stephen thorne would you feel just as comfortable as your granddaughter going to Pacific dental as you would going to or opera and why of course not this is dentistry uncensored
Dr. Rod Kurthy: well you know goes all back to the corporate attitude when we dentists we become dentists for different reasons and and financial is one of them you know mom and dad says hey become a dentist because they make a lot of money say but really by the time we get in there one of our main goals is pride in what we do and taking good care of our patients without someone over our shoulders and faster faster faster no use this cheaper stuff though and I I'm certainly not an expert on this but when it comes to the corporate duties know what I mean if they're not expert on anything in dentistry who is no but I mean the corporate did I haven't been involved in the corporate dental field but from what I've seen from the outside and talking to people you're more you you're more of an employee who treats patients then then I would call a doctor who treats patients to me you know a doctor is someone with their own practice who takes responsibility for their patients and you know they're you know the buck stops here you know type of a thing it was you know it's funny because there's that type of thing that resulted in me starting core whitening when on dentaltown one of the things that that everyone was pushing me toward is starting my own company because with with the technique for deep bleaching the the products out there didn't work well with it and created a lot of discomfort and so they said you know rod rod you got to start your own company and develop your own products we want to you know we need to lower the sensitivity lower get rid of says Tiffany and God they drove me freaking nuts
Howard: but I don't stop this story because III lived through this whole from whose rod to this big name with ten thousand posts you were showing your your other people showing bleaching cases that you know the first case she does that make up on inside our next one she looks like she just got a with red lipstick yeah that's all you were doing you went right after the worst case you went after tetracycline stain teeth and you knew where a dentist would be like damn and you I was like damn you were showing you you were showing tetracycline cases were there was a one real done as you'd say that's that's they're like damn so did you do tetracycline just because that was the Holy Grail oh no
Dr. Rod Kurthy: no no here let me tell you how it started you felt guilty of prescribing all those tetracycline to the pregnant women practice and now you're trying to fix their children I did I did a really bloody residency in in in Newark New Jersey in inner city and it was just traumatic and exciting and when I finished my residency and I started practicing I loved dentistry but I was bored I I love doing this tree but there wasn't enough excitement in my life so I decided that Friday's would become my research day and my in all the research that I've done it all in various feel it all came from having a patient who had a particular problem that I didn't think there was a good enough product or good enough technique and then I would do my research and all this kind of stuff and I would I would figure out what direction I wanted to go and then I start contacting companies out there saying hey I need to work with with chemists and yon etc I can't do that myself and if you're willing to do that with me when we're done you own it I don't want any part of it I'm just doing this for fun I need to not go crazy you know mentally and so anyway so that's what I did so anyway back before the term Extreme Makeover came out I had a gal come in and she was into her later 50s I think and and did I think 20 veneers came out beautiful and so she's just going nuts and so a few weeks later she came back to the office wanted to talk to me in person she says you know I have a daughter who's 28 years old we meeting her husband and her we had orthodontics done on her she's never have a cabin ever had a cavity wonderful teeth but they're really really weird color that no one's been able to fix so she lives in an hour and a half from here I'm gonna pay to have you do on her what you did on me okay I like that and so she comes in and it was some sort of dis mineralization I don't know what but I'll describe it the background color of the teeth was an a2 and 60% approximately of the surface area was these these brown swirls and we lovingly called her our Hershey bar patient because after she was gone the first time I was saying trying to describe the the color of Brown it's not light chocolates that dark chocolate and one of my assistants at hey it's the same color as a Hershey bar boom so I wrote that in there so that's how we referred to her so anyway when she first came in you know I said I know that people have tried to whiten your teeth with no success but you know I I told her my first involvement in whitening research was in 77 so I had a lot of under my belt at that time and so I said I want to get your teeth as light as we possibly can there's no way I'm gonna get them white but I want to get them as light as we can because I don't want to drill anymore off your the surface of your teeth that I have to and I don't want to have to make them too opaque so that they look like toilet bowls and what year is this oh god this would have been in the right around 96 probably something like that 95 and so I said give me two weeks make your appointment in two weeks I want two weeks to think about this to go over the science to see what I'm going to be able to do to get the very best results I can possibly get so anyway during that two weeks I came up with with what is now core whitening and so when she came in and and I started her on this this stuff and I think I had her doing her at home at that time for like four weeks when she came back in before the final in office visit she was about 60% improved and everybody was excited her mom was that was there with her you know and everybody in the office was excited to be looking you know at her and everything so then we did the in-office or my assistant did the in-office when we were done she was Hollywood white with no brown whatsoever so now everybody's in the India operatory she's looking in the mirror crying her mom sitting in the chair in the corner crying all of my assistants are crying and I'm crying but I was crying because I just lost 20 veneers obviously a joke but what's funny is my wife Sharon now remember his wife Sharon your daughter Shannon that's exactly exactly I'm so Kansas that's just so as I mentioned you know with all the research and development I'd done before I never got a cent out of it never won anything I just gave it away to other companies you know because for helping me so anyway my wife goes like this and I walk out the hall with her and she gets this close to my nose and she says this one you're not giving away so that's that's that was the start of deep bleaching which then morphed into poor whitening thank you but I associate you with another obsession yes
Howard the trays when you were you know there were two in fact you were as intense about the trays in fact even to this day you're still talking about tray oh the trays are talkin to you about trays I'd have to sign it NBA to even learn or did learn more about oh yeah that that's not that wouldn't be whitening trays that we made the impression tray no but you yeah you've always had a thing with tray oh you know I have some fetish of yours you have a tray fetish my
Dr. Rod Kurthy: my dad quit school after the third grade to help support his starving family and he became an auto mechanic and as he was an auto mechanic his whole life my whole life he was City was at him are in Long Beach California I heard you you grew up in Long Beach California and he worked for a Buick agency my whole life as a mechanic so anyway we never brought people in to fix things we did it you know I mean we well if the refrigerator needed fixing we fixed it you know so I grew up very mechanically oriented environment everything was done with these two hands and mechanically with the brain and so my I have a background for dentistry and mechanical engineering and so impression trays have always been a pet peeve of mine whenever I would get a plastic impression tray and look at and I say who the hell designed this this was either a engineer who's never seen the inside of someone else's mouth or this was a dentist who has no understanding of engineering principles or physics or just like you were saying some guy at a dental company in the marketing department and the trays never did what they were supposed to so now seven years ago I got so frustrated that I decided I was going to create my own impression raise and you know luckily we have the core lab we're dentists send their impressions we pork the models or now we're doing you know they they sinister lab core lab yeah so that's where dentists will send their impressions to us we'll make the the core whitening trays or they'll send us their their digital scans we'll make the core whitening trays but anyway so is that so that's art because I you have evolved dental you have Kor whitening which website is that well that's the it's the core whitening website okay so it's the core writing one yeah so it's part it's part of the company it's right there in our facility but anyway we have thousands of cases coming through so I have the advantage of having patients mouths in front of me hundreds at a time and so to date I have studied and measured over 7,000 cases that I built that that I've used in designing the impression trays and so the impression tray is the number one they have to fit they have to be I want each size of them to almost feel like they're a universal size like a one size fits all they're not but they have to have for instance you know if you have someone with a really wide anterior kind of a flat anterior well you're going to end up with this huge tray because it's gonna flare out even more so why not take the same size tray and just make the front of it flatter and wider so you can you end up using a smaller tray in patients with a wider arsenio or wider anterior you know things like that so so in going through all in everything that I thought and then then working with the 3d engineer and making the changes and then you know we have a bunch of 3d printers at the company and then 3d printing the man and then trying them on models and back and forth so I will tell you that when when I do beta tests for four desensitizer and for whitening what I'm looking for for the most part at least 70% of the participants I want to be just average dentists I'm not looking for the the key opinion leaders out there I'm not you for the famous kid I'm looking for the just average then just because that's that's who we are as a profession and because if they can with whatever I've created do great with the whitening or do great with the desensitizer well the guys who are even the most fastidious like the gentleman you were interviewing just before me well they're gonna even do a better job well but not so with the impression trace I wanted to go to the very top and I we have NDA's with them also so I can't give you the names because some of them have contracts with other companies where maybe they shouldn't have been participating with me but some really big names and we're talking about arrogant egotistical in a good way I mean if you know your you know lots of times you're gonna be more arrogant you're gonna be more egotistical or whatever but these are the kind of people who could never look at something and say it's okay they've always got to put their own mark on it say what's wrong with it you know and etc so I wanted those people so I picked 12 and we sent 144 trays and I told him look I want you to use these trays for everything I want your assistance using them for alginates I want you to use them for implants with everything and there they were very durable so you know you can reuse them you can you can you know cold sterile them you know etc and not one of them could think of anything to make the trays better but here's the funny part half of them told me that their dental assistants were really really upset when they ran out of the trays because we don't have okay when I realize what are these trays for so these are as evil arts trays these are these are full arts trays bleaching everything everything you eat for four implants crown and bridge opposing models study models they wouldn't they're not a dentist tray so let's put it this way but anything else that you're going to use a full arch tray that's what these are for and
Howard: sorry to interrupt but I got a lot of young people in there is
Dr. Rod Kurthy: it is it a quadrant tray no we we very will may go into quadrant trays the quadrant trays are much less exacting because it's only a quadrant you know when you're going when you're wrapping around an entire arch well now it's one side against the other when you're just on a quadrant well you can you know you can move those out a little bit but there are plans for that but one thing at a time okay good answer it's a
Howard: very most weighted common question of when does you know she's 25 when did when does a quadrant tray work and when does she need a forge
Dr. Rod Kurthy: oh boy Jim Gladwell would be the ones who ask that but if in my opinion a lot of it has to do with your techniques because if you're not going to provide the lab with a really good occlusal index where they can mount them properly then then then maybe they you can't mount the upper against the lower properly I think that's the main thing you know it has to do with with you with a and and here a really good anterior aclu's will stop and posterior I mean if you're prepping back here you know in the posterior and you don't have a stop behind that how's the lab going to really mount that properly so for me you know single units even couple units here and there if the patient has a good occlusion personally I'm happy myself with quadrant trace
Howard: so what's the difference for the Evolve dental and Kor whitening evolve dental
Dr. Rod Kurthy: is the name of the company Kor whitening is the process and core is the name of the products well now if you if you call that the bottom line is everybody learned about Kor whitening so for instance at the trade shows we were listed as evolved as evolve dental people would come they would say Oh God we didn't think you were here because we looked under Kor whitening and you weren't listed well no we revolve dental technologies so the bottom line is we we went with the flow and so now even when we answer the phone we answer it as Kor whitening because that's that's how people know us the name of the company however is actually evolve dental technology
Howard: I always still go back to your first triple home run bases loaded bottom of the ninth Kor whitening is um what I what I learned about you you you remind me so much about a Shawn Keating too because he's very close to us dentist I mean like like I've never had a remake in my life that wasn't my labs fault I mean they just you know they just can't frickin do anything right and so the dentist they always would want to blame it on the lab and Shawn was the only one with the balls to post season impressions and still had a bloody cotton roll in it you know they're still packing string around the deal I drove three hours you know they the largest um removable partial dentures in the old way were they they they pour up the impression casts away he's down here in Nogales okay you go down Nogales that's where all their their mailed about a thousand units a day and then they drive them across New Mexico and they have the foundry there and so I've gone down there a couple times and I'm ninety percent of the impressions um it's just an impression there's no lab script just as lower partial oh I mean they didn't even look a you think you know how long does it take to take up football burger and make one rust seed I'm a bit you know but this come on guys and but anyway I'm you were the first ones to say well look at your bleaching dreaming should you didn't even know the trim that's not even accurate that stuff's leaking out I mean you would you these were your customers you're saying dude that's a tray and it's a deal and don't even I mean so you you called it on the deal and what was really interesting is what people don't realize is that ma'am when you're when you're writing Mike who is the high what's the football trophy for the Super Bowl the has been sambar do okay I mean he was the hardest damn coach ever yeah and and you were like that you're like dude that's a shitty tray so so what is he the impression it was so what I was talking about an impression Drazen I was I was what you did for me the most is you made me and Jan and my assistants when we went back to make those bleachers we at least we started doing brain surgery instead of slop in a tray out so talk about that where well you know here's what you agree with that aside
Dr. Rod Kurthy: I'm a picky son of a bitch I I am because what I'm doing is going in a living human beings mouth not only are they a living human being but they're one that has chosen to put their their trust in me so nothing is going in their mouth unless it's the best I'm capable of that's just my attitude and with with Kor whitening since I'm a designer I'm the creator when core whitening is being used on a patient you know what I'm that patients dentists also you know dr. Jones might be the dentist but you know what I'm in there too my name is on that too and so and I have to assume that most dentists I mean we're human beings so I can't say all dentists but most dentists want to do a great job for their patients I truly believe and so when they send a now now we've always had videos and I'm just step by step on the video do this and then do this and then do this and then do this some offices will say okay well do this and this but you know I don't think we need to do that and then we'll do that well it's like dude you really think I took the time to put the and to video it it was not necessary and so when you skip certain things then you don't get what you need in the impression and the whitening trays are the foundation for deep bleaching for core whitening if you are not making whitening trays that will truly seal at the gingival margin to keep the saliva and silk Euler fluid out which has antioxidant that if it gets to the tray it destroys gel on contact if you can't seal that out what the hell are you doing don't use Kor whitening use some other brand because you're not going to get results you're not afraid any of the other work that you're doing so if you're going to take an impression to make a tray that's going to fit like crown and bridge and seal out that salivary peroxidase and that gingival sulcus fluid peroxidase out of there so that now you can have whitening gel in that tray this active for six plus hours instead of the typical twenty to thirty minutes which the studies have shown because of saliva something flew getting under there then there why go any further so that's why my and and when I in the beginning I think I went overboard and there were a lot of people yelling at me on dental town saying I was a real bitch that's the word they were using because I see an impression I say if I wouldn't accept this for my own patients I'm not accepting it for yours you change your name in the company from evolve dental duh I'm a dentist edge so but anyway we grade the impressions and and at a certain grade we contact the office and we say hey there's a problem with your your impressions and we offer to tell them what they did wrong and how to change it so that when they take an impression again they don't make the same mistake and some offices are so appreciative of that effort and some get so pissed off at us and they'll say I'll just use the goddamnit we sent you it's it's discouraging for me when that does happen but luckily it doesn't happen all that frequently but you see that full distribution in
Howard: your own family at the Thanksgiving dinner everybody's got a crazy uncle yeah and we're not gonna say his name because Ryan's but uh anyway um so so I want to back up a little more back but they leaving out steps so yeah I have been in dental places that makes a a bonny agent and talking to a PhD member Mucha at 3m remember Sumitra no Sumitra no oh my god I so my sisters nunnery was in Lake Elmo so whenever I go to Minneapolis st. Paul you had to kill 4 hours 1 minute so that leaves a Patterson 3 M so I would go to one of those too and some mature was the 3m designer she she is the one who invented a a lot of their products but anyway um she would she would show me tapes of the biggest brand-name lectures you can think of and they're mixing and matching bonding agents and she's got a Doctor in chemistry and a bunch of other white coats and they're just like are these these guys don't I mean they're they have no idea what they're talking about so here's a company that spends you know like 5 years 5 million bucks with a bunch of PhDs to make a bonding agent but oh but you go to a dental lecture and some guy says well I don't like eugenol I like ethanol err I'm going to use vinegar you know they're mixing and matching stuff and they would be blowing a gasket there this site are these guys so and then the other thing it doesn't even matter because if you walked in 100 dental offices and watched him doing any deal I mean they don't time their steps so it'll say stir for 15 seconds and it's like 1 2 3 it'll say brush on for 10 seconds and you think that was that was 3 so he did 15 minutes 15 seconds of stirring and 10 minutes you know so it's like they're mixing and matching kits they don't measure anything time and this is made on a lab by a doctor who who needed you to do 15 seconds that's where online CE is it lets you down because in it unless you go to a hands-on course where you bring in extracted to you cut it in half and you on this one you only catch it for five seconds and stir on the bonding sup for five seconds and you do that and the other one you do it right well until your monkey hands see that this one flicks off and this one you can't break off and you don't get it so uni has all but you but thanks for raising everybody's trade deal but now the question is number one I'm I need you to tell her how to how to take an impression and I know what she's already thinking does this mean I should buy an oral scanner should I instead of making an impression tray should I be getting three shape has one I taro has one so what I like to do is throw like so many questions out there that one um is good you'll answer one of them
Dr. Rod Kurthy: okay how to take an impression well there's no answer to that because there's so many different kinds of impressions I'll tell you my favorite first of all you gotta go back to physics what do you what do you have to do you have to get the impression material intimately up against all surfaces in the mouth the two surfaces the gingival surfaces you need you should be getting that impression material interproximal sub gingival e or not sub digitally but in into the crevice with no voids and no bubbles that's what you want and you want you don't want anything firm hitting you want it all impression material in there with the same amount of pressure well what I just described is what happens in a hydraulic pressure situation when you take a typical impression your pressure is vertical straight down have you ever seen the wind tunnel studies where they have wind going over and they have the smoke and it goes well notice how that smoke goes like that and it never gets down into the nooks and crannies just goes over like that well that's basically what impression material does as you push it down over a tooth you need perpendicular pressure you need it coming in from the sides and so to have a true hydraulic pressure you have to have a closed system in other words it has to be fully closed and then pressure now if you had a set of teeth in the middle and you do that scientifically the pressure on any part of that hard structure in there is perpendicular to the structure so if it's a round ball it's like this the pressure is exactly perpendicular which is exactly what we want so to me when I'm taking an impression the only thing on my mind is am I going to be creating as much hydraulic pressure as I can everywhere I want it so when I take impressions I only you know for crown and bridge the implants things like that I only use two phase impressions and I choose to go with a putty wash and the actually I hold patents on to slightly different techniques for creating hydraulic pressure I don't know why I bother to get the patents but I did but anyway the whole idea is that you want to create hydraulic pressure how do you do that if you can after you take your base impression if you when you take your wash impression can create a seal up at the depth of the vestibule all the way around and on the lower both lingual and facial now as you're pressing on that you're creating hydraulic pressure on the wash that's now going perpendicular there are two all surfaces so you're not gonna give any bubbles you're not going to get any poles so how do you do that well when you take your base impression you and if it's putty you don't put it in and push it up with your mouth you're not that strong you have the patient bite down on the tray because the muscles of mastication way stronger than your fingers pushing up and you have them bite all the way down until they hit the tray what does that do number one it creates so much force that it pushes it up there but also when you're talking about the depth of the vestibule when I go like this my fingers up there what happens when I opened which is it down so if you've closed you've pushed that way up against the vendee the vestibule now when you take your wash impression you're going to do it by hand now you have these long vestibules you go in and you push it up and it's not very long before the edges of the putty impression go as deeply as they can into the vestibule because the mouth is open now so the vestibules pulled shallower and you create that hydraulic pressure and man you give you get an impression that it was a heart Arlo Guthrie used to say can't be beat remember the Thanksgiving dinner that can't be beat Alice's Restaurant isn't white job is try to predict
Howard: what she's thinking she's 25 and she's thinking I'm well you don't need to do something that good for a bleaching tray this is what you would do for a crown and bridge or an implant case and should she have just done digital instead that's only three questions rod yeah there's gotta be one good
Dr. Rod Kurthy: yeah overall I think digital is better why because not every dentist is gonna take a perfect impression well not every dentists going to take a perfect digital impression either but it's easier to get a perfect digital impression than it is to get a perfect conventional impression and for me what do I favor coming into the core lab for instance oh absolutely a g5 because we G stands for grade and we grade from zero to five and I am better five is the best so what is it 5 what 5 stars well you have 5 star basically we only have one stars ok my star okay but anyway so so I would if if now if the impression was taken perfectly with extreme sharp detail because digital is not going to give you as much sharp in corners deep cuts you can't scan an undercut yeah is it is not and and then if it's poured up properly if everything's handled properly my opinion that's the best you can get this could be one out of 50 really I mean 1 out of 50 will send you a perfect impression yeah 1 out of 50
Howard: 1 out of 50 and in that place 1000 remove parcel today only 10 percent could write could do anything to the problem mm-hmm just
Dr. Rod Kurthy: well I heard I heard Jim Gladwell speaking on your podcast you know about that type of thing and it's it's really tough now that's not to say like a g4 is a killer impression it's a killer impression it's wonderful it's excellent and g3 is fine okay it's when you start getting down to do the g20 the one and a half sore you know below that's when we start really having problems regarding whitening trace okay well she might not even be I mean she's
Howard: she just got out of school she's 25 um she doesn't she might not even look at her own impression now if it's a G 1 2 3 4 or 5 okay so educator on why isn't she looking at her impression if you mean that she's looking at her impression but not knowing what she's looking at or she's just not looking at it assistant took it or whatever what what do you actually mean by that well I mean I we got to go back to one weird toy I don't know if I could I don't know if I can really remember what I would say but I'll tell you why I don't answer eyes cuz I remember several times with my assistant Jana was with me for 30 years I looked at actually one time I thought the hell could a dentist be thinking doing that and she said doctor friend you did that in 1987 and I'm just like oh my god oh my god I so I don't even know what we it's hard to it's hard to erase 32 years of memory so I don't know what she's like but I I assume she is taking her own impression uh-huh she's and we're gonna say full-arch for everything so would probably be like for a bridge or an implant or something well you know here's how and when she's looking at it she's probably listening to this thinking well if I showed you my upper impression what's going through your noodle to put it in five four three two one
Dr. Rod Kurthy: well also you got to remember what are you taking the impression for quitters for core whitening you have got to get a beautiful gingival crevice facial lingual anterior posterior because we got a seal that saliva and suck your fluid out because if you can't do that but everything else is for nothing but what if it's for a crown okay if it's for a single crown if I would be you know looking at an impression well first of all I want to be sure that the lab is going to be able to mount that properly so if I've taken a quadrant I need to make sure that my bites registration is good I've got to be sure that my opposing model is going to be good and that the occlusal is good that's one of the things I'm looking at the other thing I is it is I'm going to look at the adjacent teeth and I'm gonna look at my prep talk on it I better be able to see that finish line without bubbles all the way around that sucker I'd be able to I should be able to look in there and see you know that there's no undercuts I should be able to see what I've prepped now of course how good is your prep that's a whole different story but whatever it is that's in the mouth at least in those areas I should be able to see them and the you know if the young dentist out there if they're not teaching that kind of thing in dental school I sure as hell was taught in my dental school you know you know all about that but they need to learn that's because the last thing you know a young dentist out there who maybe is working for somebody but has wants to be an owner once they have their own practice well now you're getting into business and you better have happy patients now forget about business we want happy patients but you don't want you don't want that lab saying hey we can't work off of this oppression that until the patient you got to take off work again you got to come in again I got a stick you the needle again so the impression when you talk to Lab owners that's their number one thing they can build wonderful things as long as you give them the right impression but if you don't give them the right impression they can't build anything better than crap that you'll put in that patient's mouth so I think that many dentists this is a downfall this is something they're missing they're not spending enough time looking and evaluating impression after they take it you can't take an impression just go okay it's good oh you got to spend a couple minutes
Howard: here's a problem I haven't I got out of school so I see these quadrant trees and I noticed everybody liked him more if they were more sightless it was like the sightless premiere triple drug the double bites would reduce rates yeah the triple tray the sightless premier triple tray would win and I'm looking at like yeah because it's almost doesn't exist and then the metal quadrant ray was doing the worst so I would sit there and say well the only thing a quadrant ray can do a triple tray can do is distort the bite so I was doing I was drying off the tooth and then putting the wash blowing that down and then making the putty now I'm bite down there so I had the bite impression all in one and I sent it to the lab and they look at me like oh my is he like not right in the head it's doesn't even have a triple tray it's so I always believe from day one that the only thing a triple tray could do is negative and if you're just taking a single tooth then impression bite you know all in one and in these metal ones once you put something in their mouth and said sign come to bite that you know is and when there's none of that train them on him by dial just close her mouth so am I not right in the head well
Dr. Rod Kurthy: I'll tell you if I agree with what you say in general and I had the same impression but I came across something then I learned actually from the Maddow brothers nice in jail enrichment oh yeah that's someone on TV I asked them no this was the Richards report yeah years ago and then there was something that they learned from Gary shan-rock he's the inventor of the main person technique no no no I'm not a fan of that i from a physics to do the ancient President Joe Stevens Kisco and which are no I don't think so okay that's the is the laminar flow the laminar so here's what it was and I and for me it didn't work it's where you would use something like a blue mousse you know a bike registration heavy-heavy durometer really stiff material is that a polyether blue mousse yes yeah yeah no no no it's a polyvinyl it was okay it's poly vinyl and you know and when you have your patient closed into centric you're not looking here where they've been in the impression you're looking at the opposite side of the arch thank you sure that that you know because you can't see through that impression tray and then what he would do was drill a hole from the side at the mesial drill a hole to side from the distal then when he put the put that back in he would take his wash and inject it and we'll go around hydraulic pressure and come in would move out any possible blood any possible other fluids etc and that was great but the hydraulic pressure from a standpoint of physics what's the most efficient type of pressure it's hydraulic pressure so I will use hydraulic jacks on cars and things like that so there was so much pressure it still would push that out so now when you take it out of that oh god did it look great but then you would pour it up and because it had sprung back a little bit which you couldn't tell now you have a small casting or what we call a narrow casting and then when you make the crown on that it would fit to to tighten so then people will sit all put put two layers of die spacer on their I mean you're gonna put the layers over that over the margins also I mean my god you're admitting distortion then so anyway I got to thinking now you're familiar with Park Hill did you know Nelson gin deucey mmm yeah Nelson's law it not Benton not been there long time and I and the company sold I think a few years ago I wasn't I don't know I have no idea but I was very very close with Alex Mitchell the owner before he passed away I I saw him like a second father and he had come out with the material called Mach 2 mm-hmm and it was made to make dice from real quick but it's a polyvinyl and the stuff is watery really low viscosity so I thought god I wonder I wonder if I use that as my wash I wouldn't have to push all that hard because it did flow so I wouldn't create a lot of hydraulic pressure and when you talk about the hardness the rigidity of the blue mousse and then the even greater rigidity of this mock to itself god this thing's gonna be rigid but can it be done that way because you know the adjacent teeth have some undercuts right so I contacted Nelson Jindo so who do you know we'd worked together on certain things before and he said he said forget about rod there's no way in hell it's gonna work it's gonna break so I said thanks Nelson and I went and tried it no problem at all unbelievable fit absolutely unbelievable fit and I was I did this on many many cases and so they ended up writing an article and when Nelson said some things about I about it I said oh yeah Nelson you told me it wouldn't work oh I never said that but that's a technique I used to use quite a bit that was so simple and and worked literally every time with Cromley
Howard: but we know what the listen I'm afraid the kids might a mess on that is on that's the value chain you have such a dysfunctional relationship with insurance companies because you don't even know who these people are you never had lunch with them at the CDA meeting last week how many people extra from insurance I remember one time Bob Ibsen called me and he called me Avenue he was so mad at you for something I don't even know what you said but you said it's on a dental town and I said Bob why are you calling me you own a jet fly either call him up and send a jet down to pick him up are you flying down there why are you calling me that's the only thing that's wrong with gossip the only thing that's wrong with gossip is your sister's gonna come up and and tell you all this about like okay but you should have used all that energy and talked to my sister my other sister and what I don't like about gossip is that you're gonna feel better and you did nothing for the situation and I told Bob it's and and he did call you yeah
Dr. Rod Kurthy: well actually you called me oh I call it I was being I was that I was out of state somewhere on the campus of some college I was looking at for my daughter we were visiting and you called me on the phone you say hey Bob it was really pissed off at you oh you know etc and so you know but he and I did talk after that but he he and I did a lot of things together and he and I have a lot of
Howard: arguments where it was too passionate guys arguing or good versus bad good versus evil it was both both both and how does how does how does and I'm just curious cuz how does a bleaching bonding veneers go from gentlemen can disagree dat good versus bad oh well I would
Dr. Rod Kurthy: I did a lot with him for years before the whitening thing right came out and so I wrote a lot of articles for him I did I I was a huge fan of his Rembrandt toothpaste and other Rembrandt products and of course that was sold off to oral-b and then it was gamble in it yeah yeah and he got swallowed by July and then yeah then B and then because that be the FTC came in they said no you gotta get rid of it why do you think I think I sold to Johnson Johnson and now it's being produced by one of their subsidiaries and I don't want to say they've ruined the toothpaste but it's not as good as it was it's still what I use I still use the Rembrandt regular Rembrandt toothpaste for a number of reasons but anyway so Bob Gibson's publicists gal by the name of Betty Light had a publicity firm called light years ahead in Beverly Hills I'll do it no I haven't been able to find her name in a long time it's funny she took me out to dinner one time in an Italian restaurant and we're sitting there and she says well you know we want you to do this TV stuff and I said why me and she said well because you're sexy now I'm sitting right next to a mirror and I looked at my fat face with a bald head and I said would you please talk to my wife and tell her that and I started laughing she's no you don't understand rod says in the publishing world you have published several books that makes you what we call sexy so in other words of interest to the audience or whatever okay but so I you know I did a lot of you know not a number of television things I did a a satellite radio media were one day where I did interviews on I think it was 38 radio stations one after the other but I you know I so some of the things that they did I thought work were great it was when it came to deep bleaching and you know Bob Gibson was a real pioneer but he was also a real corporate businessman he you know it was you know with some of the bad connotation associated with that and it was that sight of him that I had some problems with
Howard: you know Brian do you remember Bob Benson oh my god you know what I love the most my favorite Bob business story is you know he um he did well for himself ofc had a 18 hole golf course on his house we're having lunch over there one day and the moral passionately talking about something and I just happen to wonder okay where my boys I look over there having a golf cart race on his golf course and they're doing donuts on the putting green of the last putting green and my heart stopped I'm like okay I'm dead and Bob I said oh my god Bob and Bob look at he goes he couldn't quit laughing and I said I'm thinking and he says know how I'd never golf on that it'll give day it'll give the yard people something to do and then he went on with his legion Dale for like couldn't have given a crap that my four boys are having a race on a live let me tell you my favorite one more but he's very about good so so he sold so he finally sold that any thing was Johnson Johnson for gazillion dollars and then unseals to him it was swallowed up by Gillette like a few months later probably have 40 percent premium he had more money than any of us would ever know what to do with but he'd been married to Marcy forever and Marv said oh oh no you're still going to work Monday through Friday I don't give a crap well he kept on and so his lawyers told up well you have too much money to dentistry one bad case again soon so he just like anterior cosmetic so he wouldn't open up a woman's shelter for domestic violence knowing they're gonna punch in your friend and he just did um anterior restore zon domestic violence and when I would go visit him he couldn't he'd keep his silent he wanted to go home and see his honey buddy but he couldn't pull in that driveway before arias and then we get there five and she was ready for the vibe she had the chips and salsa and his favorite beverage drinks or whatever and my god what it what it what IQ god what would you like her bothers just right
Dr. Rod Kurthy: so my son and daughter went to Santa Margarita Catholic High School in Orange County and so you're Catholic then or you're kind of let's put this way my wife is Catholic and my kids are Catholic and I kind of went along but at any rate when I think there was like eight hundred and fifty or so in the graduating class it's a big high school and so they sent these notes out to parents that they were putting together these kits for the kids going to college and to donate little things that they think that the kids would be you know like it would need with them so I I was I was talking with with Bob Gibson you know and he asked me something in it and I said Oh Bob I said said kind of thing I said I don't care if you do this or not but the you know Rembrandt toothpaste is expensive and you know certainly my opinion is it certainly was back then what it was even better than it is now this well worth the cost but they've asked me yet cetera and a lot of these families are well-off financially so they might be tend to be your customers if you'd like don't do it for me but if you'd like if you want you could you could a tube of toothpaste we could put in you know each of those kiss and maybe you know you might pick up some customers that way totally up to you Bob next thing I know he has sent a truck down from from Santa Maria with with a that whatever it was cases of Rembrandt toothpaste so each graduating student got a case of Rembrandt toothpaste
Howard: I always thinking about big ole alpha bull Mills like yourself like bothersome they're usually the 400-pound girl is a complicated dude I mean I kind of look it as an energy-level like you guys are just always pacing you're always doing you age got 20 irons in the fire and it just has been fun to watch so so on your journey was it because bleaching cause oh and by the way I want to say one thing about sin study um when though with a dentist and the be Dennis and the see dentist you know what I meant earlier there's some of that legendary stuff you got to look at the details because some of the guys when the cosmetic Revolution took off and it was kind of led by I have a clarinet and Bill Dickerson yeah I think Bill Dickerson and Bob Stanley those two guys it was kind of like their orchestra and if anybody had sensitivity with their body agents they you know you were doing it on you user over Dan you over dry it you underway right I would call these guys have and I call and then they would show up in their locks you know that's crazy so when I'm in their office I walked up front to Emma and I looked at the schedules paper back there and I started calling patients say yeah this is Dr. Farran calling from world-famous dental office 101 and so they cemented ten Empress crowns all glass and I was just wondering are you having any sensitivity I've been eating so much mojo and I have black diarrhea and and then they certain in a bunch of Denis War work and I can give you names of dentists who went to these famous guys who had their teeth all root canal while the guys still lectures on the circuit that he's had no sensitivity so remember they always at the top always tries to distort the individual by not being transparent and then you believe it's you and you're the crazy one and I thought I was over drying under dry exam yeah I am you know I had a rubber dam I had a rubber dam on the tooth and I put a rubber dam on the ceiling so I can say I practice under rubber dam because I didn't know what they were saying you they kept saying you got to practice under rubber dams okay I got one around the tooth got one over my head and it was um and then I noticed that I'm you with the with you the bleaching sensitivity was an issue and then your next latest product was a desensitizer so did the desensitize you come from when bleaching took off it was all about sensitivity when bonding took off and then what was 4000 any further I gotta say with all the stuff you're telling them
Dr. Rod Kurthy: dental town was the huge changer of that because before dental town everybody practiced solo truly solo and when all the bigwigs out there said oh this is the way it should be and you're having problems and they're telling you oh it's just you really thought it was just you but dental town ever since you started that is where people go on and say oh my god it's not just me it's these idiots they're there feed me a bunch of BS and to me that one thing would anybody tells me it asked me what is the greatest thing to ever happen in the history of dentistry I mean in history greatest thing to happen was dental town forum because you know what you did you know and I think you said the dental town so that no dentists they were asked to practice solo again and it is so true because back then and now you have a problem and the bigwigs are saying oh no it's just you you go on dental town look it up and you'll find out whether it's just you or not you know I just want I'm sorry I wanted to say that because that is so important to me I I think you you you have been the most important thing that said happen to demonstrate oh you say that one is absolutely true
Howard: but anyway sister to me but you said they were feeding a line of BS and I love baloney sandwiches but was the sensitivity from whitening that led to your obsession with sensitivity or was it from bond
Dr. Rod Kurthy: yes and no yes and no I I before or you just said obsessed if maybe he was just that of these guy before before the whitening thing ever happened I had done a lot of work on sensitivity I I published an article in dentistry today I think it was many many years ago about sensitivity but then there's the whitening sensitivity also now that once I opened the company well now that's on my shoulders you know it's like why is it so sensitive and so the the the desensitizer that we were using I was really happy with and oh my god for the most part the dentists were absolutely loving it I had no glutaraldehyde her in it no no no worry about tissue toxicity or in here like that and and it was wonderful but it was a small incidence of sensitivity and whenever anybody would what was really aggravating to me not from a business standpoint but from here is when we would have a new customer come on and and they would say well we want to send everything back because our first two cases had a lot of sensitivity so we don't want to use this I'm thinking oh god you know it was obviously quizzes because I'm you know very didn't happen other people but it just hurt me it bothered me so much and so for years on dental town and everywhere else I said well yeah I really like our sensitivity our desensitizer but I'm working on I'm researching to come out with something that is even better and so finally you know all my research it was over and done and we launched that and it's something that I read desensitizer that i think is the best out there however in all the paperwork that we have literature and what I'll say here is Never Say Never I don't ever want anybody telling their patients oh yeah you're gonna be able to use core whitening and you're not gonna have sensitivity don't do that you don't know you don't know what size of dental tubules you don't know what flare of the orifices that patient has there's always going to be this patient here this patient there but in general we've just been really excited about it but the most exciting thing is that it's for any type of sensitivity you know is under under temporary restorations under final restorations whether they're bonded or not what I'm really excited about is it works so well on you know just generalized sensitivity and you know my first study area was so is would they find that on the core whitening website would they find it on by just
Howard: yeah go on the core whiting website and okay so I probably call it probably calling Kor whitening well I'm on the website now so what I like for patients I'm embarrassed I don't even deal with that idea I deal with you know all the clinical stuff so I never get on our website solving whitening sensitivity so I would go I would go there probably right yeah I'm gonna but that's going to be severus that white paper is specifically about the etiology what causes the sensitivity what if what is it you know what I like in all the research that does so I'm glad you do over time um because she's thinking sensitivity I mean there's some desensitizing toothpastes out sites and say hey there's sensitivity some people that gloom on a tooth or whatever so what do you what are you talking about a may aim is someone who's under 30
Dr. Rod Kurthy: okay let me ask you a question if the patient has 100% of their dentinal tubules with natural smear plugs in them is that patient going to be sensitive no okay so the answer to this is you gotta go to the cause you got a plug open dentinal tubules and you need to do it now were you drinking with dr. Bronston Bronson's hydrodynamics area of the Adhan tell us
Howard: where you dream with dr. Brown
Dr. Rod Kurthy: I would love to I'll tell you that do you fabulous guy but you know so if you're looking you know people talk about fluoride oh you know use floor well what happens you you create calcium fluoride precipitate crystals over time weeks months and whenever you're gonna try and treat sensitivity with with with fluoride chances are you're never going to fully seal them and it's going to take a long time so in my opinion you want a desensitizer that you apply that will plug those tubules just like that and have those two those plugs those synthetic plugs stay in there so it's got to be durable so to me that is the goal of desensitization everything else has just hope this pocus I mean a lot of people have talked about using ACP in my pace type of thing to desensitize and there's a lot of you know back and forth on well does it really work because was designed to remineralizer enamel l is 98% calcified or mineralized and and it only works to remineralizer on highly mineralized surfaces well dentin is not nearly as highly mineralized so a lot of people are saying it that it's BS that ACP will not desensitize dentin on the other hand won't recent in my pace ACP amorphous calcium phosphate and so you know a lot of people say you know that that can't happen now on the other hand I'm thinking about it and the peritubular dentin it's gonna be brown 95 96 percent mineralized so it's really high also so maybe it could work bottom line is it's a growth process you're growing the material again if you have a sensitive situation you want to fix it now and so that's why I favor that type of desensitizer and that's the type we okay if we talk about siding demonstrates a sensitivity first thing they think is I'm sensing
Howard: so what what is how does sensation know so now that's potassium nitrate
Dr. Rod Kurthy: a surprising number of dentists believe that potassium nitrate plugs dentinal tubules it does not plugged in tubules it will migrate up through the dental tubular fluid to get to the pulp the a delta nerve fibers that line the pulp those are the the fibers that when stimulated will cause discomfort so potassium nitrate theoretically interferes with the repolarization of neurons just like a gun you shoot it you got to reload it right same thing with nerves they fire then they have to recharge basically
Howard: this was david blocks company since then who he sold the GlaxoSmithKline yes so so you're saying it did not block mechanically block it
Dr. Rod Kurthy: actually if theoretically prevents the repolarization so in other words the nurse can fire was but then they can't repolarize well if you read the studies which i've spent many many days reading the studies on this you will find that about one-third will show it will show that about one-third of the victims the test the test patients had a really good result from it about one-third had an okay result and about one-third got no result at all and the bottom line is if it's going to work what you're really doing is numbing that that nerve trying to numb that nerve but you don't know how well it's gonna work and the patients got to keep using it and using it using it for because you have you you have to keep replacing it because it sounds like a great business yeah yeah I suppose so so don't get me wrong I'm a fan of potassium nitrate hey I like to cheat I'll take everything I can get so so potassium nitrate yeah great but but that should I my opinion that should never be your first line of defense okay well I need to
Howard: I need to back up even more yeah because when you're in these dental schools they're saying okay help me with his heart so it's an infraction they tell me that you know what causes it my mom's a dentist she always puts in a class five composite they're my dad's a dentist in the same practice he doesn't and then they both tell him to use Sensidine and they're like so we don't know what it causes an infraction some fill all classified some don't some use Sensidine so can you can you throw anything how she can wrap her mind around just that as far as the restore to the end of it well I mean like I mean so we don't know what an infraction is and then some dentists on dental town so everyone my composite and some don't do anything to it we don't know what that is
Dr. Rod Kurthy: you know it's so funny the pendulum swings you know now at first is its its toothbrush abrasion and then then it's AB fraction and it's that and so now that the AB fraction people they they say well as though such thing as toothbrush abrasion excuse me when enamel is about the same hardness as steel a dent is the same hardness as a hardwood and you have abrasives in toothpaste and you're rubbing them you're gonna tell me that there's no such thing as toothbrush abrasion you got to be from a different planet if you don't think that there's such a thing as toothbrush abrasion so it's a combination I believe of both of the of those that multifactorial yes it is and you know which is what I really loved about the original Rembrandt toothpaste and why I had my patients think about it and everybody out there the younger dentists even if you see a patient that has the little crevice ledge at the edge there and they'll say doc you know why isn't there able to hook their fingernail they don't like that they hate that and so to mean those areas those are toothbrush abrasion because they're not your typical you know I've fractionation looking things and so the original Rembrandt toothpaste instead of using high abrasive it used that used PAP pain which they called a proprietary name was citric saying do you remember that and it is it's a proteolytic enzyme that doesn't just dissolve proteins it dissolves organic matter and in fact one of his main uses oh by the way it comes from the papaya fruit so it's all natural like a black hole yeah so it's main uses as a meat tenderizer but anyway so Bob Gibson he adds PAP pain into it to remove the stains so we can use less abrasive and you know why he did that cuz you know Bob was one of the early pioneers on tooth color and restoratives right and so basically he got sick and tired of placing these composites and polishing them and making them beautiful and then abrasive toothpaste making them dull so that's where that's why Rembrandt first came out
Howard: so that some regular Colgate resins too soft and so that soft wood scratch it subject and the Rembrandt was harder so it would polish though the heart
Dr. Rod Kurthy: so Rembrandt they use almost no abrasive in it and they just used this at Rock st. to chemically remove so here's how I told my patients okay here's how to explain it mmm you got a brand new car beautiful paint job and your car is real grimy now and you want to wash it and you don't want to ruin the pain so I'll tell you what I'll give you a bucket of water and you can choose from a firm sponge or soft sponge because what do most dead tell her patience Oh use a soft brush and don't brush too hard they're missing the most important part so a the analogous thing you can choose from a firm sponge or a soft sponge okay and when you wash your car after you dip it in the water you could rub hard or you can rub rub gently well if you pick though the firmer sponge and you rub really hard yeah you might eventually Mar the paint but what if instead of putting car soap in that water I put Ajax or comic kitchen cleanser on there and you used it you're gonna ruin your your your paint job like yeah it's the abrasive that goes on the doggone toothbrush that your you're using so by bob hips and using very very little abrasive and infinite hydrating Celica you know I don't know what everything it probably was but then but but using the citric Seine in there or the pain to remove it you had extremely low abrasion and it was wonderful and it was so effective that I used to promote publicly that anytime I had had a patient on paradise to combat the stain I made sure that they used only Rembrandt toothpaste all raw yours that's ridiculous that's ridiculous well a few years ago a whole bunch articles came out in in the various journals about using a toothpaste with papain in it which was Rembrandt for just specifically that that problem you have always been a master of the literature man
Howard: where does that come from what do you mean master of the literature well I mean you you I mean you've always been studying and researching and looking up I mean most dentists today they come up to a fork in the road they'll call up their best friend from dental school and they'll say you know do do that you you're the type of guy that goes into studies it on every Friday for a year I will all tell you what you ever watched the movie patent about your general Georgia see Scott yeah well and he's a four-star general it wasn't a five-star general exactly
Dr. Rod Kurthy: you remember his arch enemy basically was Field Marshal Rommel Rommel on the same team that was on his team his rifle on his name Rommel from the England but they were fighting no no no no urban Rommel was the German oh my man who was old Montgomery okay yeah yeah so my everybody level on his side and he was gonna get drama so Erwin Rommel he had the Panzer tank we had the crappy Sherman tank you know what the nickname was for the Sherman tank the Ronson like Ronson lighter fluid because the joke was you hit it one time with the shell and it explodes so we had the crappy Sherman tanks they had these Panzers and now erwin rommel was a field marshal so he was the equivalent of like a four-star general and before the war he had been an instructor at the German military academy and he had written a book called I think battlefield tactics or something like that and so anyway in North Africa when Rommels troops came up against Patton's troops Rommel should have kicked our ass but they didn't and Patton one so now in the movie and this is absolutely true based on an interview of Patton himself in the movie you see Patton after the battle looking over this battlefield that he has won and he raised his fist he said rom oh you magnificent son of a bitch I read your book he credited the win for having read Rommels book so he knew what Rommel was going to do well that's how I've always approached things so many people there's a problem they say well let's study how to fix the problem well I think you're missing a step you got to learn about the problem why is the problem happening you got to figure out everything about why it's happening before you have a chance of figuring out how to fix it and so that's always been my thing and I don't know why but it started at a very young age and you know and when I was in dental school and that's just the way I've always approached things and when I find a problem it bugs me until I figure it out I want to see on since
Howard: I just want to say on the word sensitivity there's some so again we're old old dogs that should be put out to pasture and the real world for for these people under 30 is they did an MOT composite and it's sensitive yeah so that's that's there that's that's where they're at why is that mo D filling on a first molar sensitive and when they come back they usually just adjust the bite yeah that's the whole treatment and
Dr. Rod Kurthy: it doesn't work alright really I mean people out watching how often when you adjust the bite is the sensitivity good never almost ever to give them enough hook to get out of the chair get a little bit of time for this I'll tell you what I think it is no one can say with certainty what it is but when you are doing your bonding you're doing two separate things whether it's with one liquid or not you're removing smear the smear and then you're plugging those dentinal tubules up with your bonding agent and so now you have these fingers of bonding agent so you have only bonding agent only dentin now this area is where the dentin has the holes in it and the bonding agent has fingers going into it that's the hybrid zone a lot of people have don't understand what hybrid means and that's it's a hybrid it's a combination of the resin so that's where it's mechanically gripping I've seen studies that show that when you do this you'll open a large percentage of the tubules and when you now go to seal them you don't seal all of the tubules so that many of the tubules are still open that makes sense to me I don't think anybody can prove that but that that makes sense to me when I when I came across that years ago those studies I will tell you something making a pitch for a product that I have nothing to do with and I learned about this product from my old friend Alex midsole of Park Hill and they use some products that use a molecule that's called the for beta molecule and I don't know the chemistry of it I don't know how it works but that molecule starts out acidic and it is a resin molecule and then it becomes neutral so the cool thing is that that for instance with the brushin bond when when you use that on the tooth mmm the same molecule that's removing the smear plugs is the same molecule that's that's that's actually penetrating so it's virtually impossible to open up a tube you'll without simultaneously sealing it and I used to be on the list for beta testers for got at least eight different companies for their bonding ages and as a thank you what they'd always do is send you product you've done that I'm sure many times and so I had these drawers full of bonding agents and bonding agent is expensive right mm-hmm so after I used the brush and bond it was holy now I pride myself on my technique in my isolation and I never did have a major problem with sensitivity I had problems with the Russian bond I haven't have any problems and so anyway I would say to my assistant Nelly Nelly uh let me have the brush bond she was bring me some other brand because it was gonna expire I say no no no no Nelly I want not that I want the brush upon she kept trying to push it on me for financial reasons as she was my you know she's the one stalked the office you know and all that kind of stuff and so we had a heart-to-heart one day and I said Nellie just throw that other stuff out because I'm not gonna use it oh well dr. Cathy you should use it because you know these things are so expensive and you don't have to buy you know more and I said okay Millie I said I have that I have a solution I'm gonna use it but I'm only gonna use I'm gonna use those other brands but from now on I'm only gonna use them on patients I don't like and she looked at me and she couldn't figure it out and I said Nellie I said I'm teasing I said said you know I was making a point to you and I said I want you to take the stuff and throw it out and so she did but I became a big fan of that for that particular reason and I'll tell you it's never failed me for anything I've ever used it for and I have nothing to I don't even know the people at the company anymore company at Park Hill so you know who owns far Kel I don't know who
Howard: some other company bought it they were directa has bought a top dental or sing park l rone big he's a he's out of Sweden and so you can get some IKEA furniture while you're on the way I actually get to go by that guy's house when I was in a it grinds me more because I went to Creighton in Omaha we should drive by Warren's house he still lives in that house is this little bitty house and that IKEA guy just like Warren II had like 80 90 billion dollars and when he's still alive Wow I said the guy said where's he living he goes how old are you buy his house there's just a little bitty you could just tell those guys they were if someone goes like this is well taken care of though wasn't it this guy spent his entire life making furniture better faster higher quality Laura and the people always sit there and say oh it's low-cost it's crap stuff I heard that with them I'm glad well in the beginning oh that's a crappy found all these elitist smug smacks that you just wanted to smack upside the head but they didn't realize that when other guys were charging 250 to 300 for a crown that millions of Americans could never Chrome and what I learned about IKEA is you know that the dentists are fine they're just totally fine with them outlawing everything that's not perfectly quality then you say okay well now now they have nothing oh I'm fine with that as long you know you're fine whether you're a rich dude and I love the fact that um you know Henry Henry Ford would did not pioneer the car he was like the 86th car company but everyone else would be like five guys making a car for a king and Henry's like no we're gonna make a car for the working man yeah and I I've always I've always liked those guys I'll never forget when I graduated I think you say I got to listen to her when Becker for a whole day talked about how there's a patient's be patient see page to D patient you should only focus on the a patient I just realize well my entire pedigree is you just said the Franz and Kansas should not have a dentist and I've always loved the the people who can um not make it for one person for the rich but make it for the masses and perkell did that their whole life
Dr. Rod Kurthy: you know what Sharon calls you why my wife Sharon she calls you the Ford Taurus dentist because she's heard you say several times that your patients drive Ford Tauruses yeah I know if you still say that or not and they used to make fun of me I was lecturing and then the next neuro is a a CD and they say
Howard: yeah you don't want to do this you could always be the the Walmart dentist like Howard and I thought the world Walmart's the largest distributor in the world and I know there's more Walmart people than there are Nordstrom's people and and a lot of the Nordstrom's people the only thing on their resume is that they came from the lucky sperm Club it's never you're never talking about the founder yeah it's always the lucky sperm that does form out of that but um but enough of that my gosh so so so Park Hill now was sold to direct which ones top ten all were saying all that kind of stuff so would him would be what are you most passionate about now
Dr. Rod Kurthy: oh god I have a lot of passions our eye I just did Astri in general and well you can't say just dentistry because you started a cigar company well I did and our most dentists that smoke cigars they do it in the closet but mine because of yours you can't yeah my cigar my my enjoyment of cigars is is is a pastime I don't I don't I'm not a daily cigar smoker I you know but I would I do smoke a dream or that could change actually I don't drink at all but I do and I do enjoy cigars so I and I started that that that that cigar accessories company because of a couple things I had invented this that's my fun thing to do if you're going to talk about my real passion that's Eska be back in the dentistry and and of course you know because now the company where did this come from the knowing you it had to there was some science okay okay absolutely mechanical tobacco okay how is your amazing mind your so so I I was introduced by two cigars by my son back in 2003 and so anyway I started smoking some cigars and decided that I'm a pretty straight shooter you know I haven't never been really in trouble and I wanted to change that so I started getting sneaking cigars from Cuba which were illegal and my favorite one is the money crystal number two which has the tapered tip now for those who smoke cigars you cut your cigar you you somehow get a hole in the end of it and then you draw them now cigars premium cigars are handmade so there's no two that are the same and you're gonna be there to relax and so you want to puff on your cigar and have it be able to draw through it easily and you don't want to be you know like trying to suck a golf ball through a straw you know because that spoils it and so a lot of times just have to throw your cigar away if you have to puff to hardness - that's what they call a tight draw and so they had things like icepick type of gadget so you could push down there to try and open it and but then you spread it out even warning you crack the wrapper or now as soon as you pull it out it just fills back in and so anyway I thought yeah you know I have a engineering background and and I'm a dentist we dentists are clever and we did this sure as hell have some great little tools so I made myself a little shaft with with little little blades on it and I can actually insert into the cigar and pull out some of the tobacco hit the draws too tight there's too much tobacco in there and son of a gun it worked like crazy and so this is it right here yeah yeah that's it right there and so anyway everybody that was was with smoked cigars with me say oh let me use that thing let me use that thing all and so obviously at core whitening we do a lot of work with FedEx and my - FedEx reps are cigar smokers and we're a very big account with them and so they like to take me out to lunch and then we go have a cigar mmm every time this they go to reach for that little look how FedEx is networking with the value chain you're a big account and so the FedEx people come and take you to lunch yeah okay
Howard: so Delta dentals giving you $100,000 a year for 20 years when's the last time you had lunch for them
Dr. Rod Kurthy: oh you couldn't take him out of their freakin police lineup and the only time he ever hears from you is some letter with profanity but anyway so so mark said dr. Currie you're so entrepreneurial I can't believe you haven't done anything with this and so I said well mark I've thought about it but you know what you give me one week and I'll make a decision so I decided to to do to create that which turned out to be a heck of a lot more involved than I thought it would and another thing that I created this guy yeah who's that guy so then a year and a half later and in and I spent not one dollar on marketing just open up a web site whoever wants to buy it wants to buy it and certain people it just kind of went viral and a year and a half later I was contacted and told that we were we had been nominated for and now we're in the top five for best cigar accessory of any type in the world that's how to explain the accessory the first most common well you know
Howard: as I'm watching this video I assume this is on pornhub that's a good-looking guy huh that is is that your backyard
Dr. Rod Kurthy: yes my backyard yeah what city is that long it's encoded Icaza South Orange County which is where they film that infamous stupid program Real Housewives of Orange County and wouldn't the Queen Mary Oh is there or in Long Beach bruce goose in Long Beach okay yeah and so so anyway I said we're in the top five I didn't even know we were nominated and so is it right here yeah so we flew to Germany and that's that's the cigar industry's version of the Academy Awards red carpet the whole thing yeah and son of a gun we won and and so it's been kind of a roller coaster ride we have three products out now and I have five more currently in developing
Howard: your augering out a little hole in the middle
Dr. Rod Kurthy: so you're not yeah spreading it to break the paint exactly and it's honoring a whole yes but it's doing more than that because it's got cutting blades and pulling channels and all depends on this via a 30 degree sharp edge is a European or US style knife okay like a state knife or a chef's knife and that will cut tobacco well now where I I have some other channels it creates a 90 degree sharp edge that will pull tobacco so it's not only cutting and removing some tobacco but it's pulling the rest of the tobacco so that as you pull it out it fills the whole and seems like a tiger yeah yeah you know you know what smoke going through a hole you want to go into
Howard:so that you you thought of this while doing a root canal in the engine you know what
Dr. Rod Kurthy: I've been accused of that many times are you and because the people in the cigar industry they think it's hilarious that I'm a dentist that owns a teeth way company right all right and so they'll say what does this thing looks like a dental tool
Howard: so um so then you also have a what I'm excited about is you have a webinar coming up yeah the science of tooth whitening once EE credit offered March 1917 so st. Patrick's Day is the 17th so by the nineteen you should just be sobering on you know they probably your attorneys now meeting you at the jail letting you out so Thursday March 19 two days after st. Patrick's Day tell us about that course it's um and on e it's on e-learning or dental or my dental learning well dental learning yeah yeah something like that I don't dental learning is that a GED nah I don't know I think it's owned by a same call most dental products shopper Oh dental products ever okay yeah I think so
Dr. Rod Kurthy: but anyway just like I've talked about the General George Patton thing learning things we asked doctors we need to understand what it is we're doing because no two patients are the same so when you go to a course learning how to do a root canal or periodontal surgery or whatever you better understand it enough that once you get in there and oh it's a little bit different than you thought you know how to properly modify things and teeth whitening is is no different it's treatment it's just not slapping gel on the teeth so what this is what this seminar is it it goes through the science behind teeth whitening why teeth get get white or why they won't get white when you when you're not doing it correctly or when there's problems so it goes over all the problems it over what the science tells you you need to accomplish and then it tells you how you go about doing what the science says you need to do but to really do I believe to be good truly good at anything you have to understand the science inside and out because you're dealing with people they're all different you have to know what to modify week for instance we have different kits there's different lengths of time you might having to be having the patient waiting at home you know etc if you don't understand if your patient comes back and they have sensitivity we don't understand what you're doing what are you gonna do about that if you do understand you know what questions to ask them you know what to look for you know how to figure out why is it they're having sensitivity that door no I know you gotta leave in like 10 minutes
Howard: but you still haven't answered the two biggest bleaching questions fire away in the world one is an incredible amount of dentists believe that the in-office bleaching White has no research in fact they say all the research claims that it does not work and then the other one is when you start talking about internal bleaching internally bleaching the two yeah some people think that you just killed the tooth resorption and so so does the NRA's bleaching light work and this external bleaching record writing can you do it inside the tooth or is that the kiss of death so internal bleeding and bleaching like
Dr. Rod Kurthy: okay so let's talk about the bleaching light first I wish we had time to talk about how bleaching happened but bleaching was stumbled upon it wasn't developed scientifically someone did something they were look look at whiten the teeth we weren't even trying to do that so anyway the whole thing started at an omni international in arkansas it was it was it was some dental study group and what they wanted to try and do is figure out how to make the gums heal on teenagers after you D banned the teeth because especially back when we had the big silver bands and everything the teeth looked like hamburger so so they were saying well let's make trays that fit over over the teeth and gums and put this stuff on the market you know in the drug stores called let's put that on there that's supposed to make him and let's see if it makes the gums heal well they came back and they said and remember teenagers teeth whitening much quicker than adults hey if you guys am I crazy or the teeth getting lighter on these patients yeah they're getting lighter well guess what the active ingredient is in there ten percent carbamide right and so that's where it all started out had nothing to do with science and so let's figure it out so anyway we're Americans and that means we want what we want and we want it man and so everybody's trying to figure out well how do we speed this up instead of having our patients were trays you know for X amount of time and back then it was watery gels we had to put sponges in the trays to soak up those you know it was crazy well let's try putting on strong stuff we'll have burned it burn the the gums okay well let's try putting rubber Dam on there and let's do that and so they were putting on high concentration of hydrogen peroxide and it wasn't doing very much and one study I was in we were using heating lamps you know the red ones the infrared red ones and you know killing pulps right left you know and so then then all that sleep you know so will he he will kill puff so now what I think back to high school chemistry they had us put this and this in the dish and nothing happened but when we put it over the Bunsen burner to put energy into it heat energy the reaction went so let's see Oh let's use light energy yeah because you had light energy and it's gonna make a reaction go it's gonna speed it up right and that's true for endothermic reactions so let's use a light let's use a laser well at all sounds great until you realize that the breakdown of hydrogen peroxide is an exothermic reaction and for those out there who might not know the difference you know if you ever go skiing or up in cold weather and you buy those little packets to put in your gloves that that warm your hands and you kind of crushed them where there's a packet inside a packet and there's a chemical reaction that makes it get hot or the most common thing is when you pour up your stone or plaster it says it gets hot those are exothermic reactions instead of needing energy to go forward they've got to get rid of energy to go forward that's the breakdown of hydrogen peroxide so according to lay chatelier's principle of chemical equilibrium if you try and force energy into an exothermic reaction that's trying to get rid of energy you actually slow it down well now the lights don't really give you that much energy it's kind of you know all show and they'll go so I'm not saying that the lights will slow it down but can you think of a reason based on what I've said why you would ever want to use a light and what is a light supposed to do make it make the breakdown go faster really well you know what there's such a thing as a chemical acceleration I could make the the the I could make a little jar of hydrogen peroxide break down so fast that it would explode and break the glass like a hand grenade with chemicals so because I can chemically determine how fast it's going to break down why in the world would I want that and then the other thing to think about is if these lights are supposed to work so well making it break down faster why does every company that provides a light with their system have a dual barrel syringe with a chemical accelerator in it why would they need a chemical accelerator if the light worked or the laser worked and I used to be okay with it I used to think okay we'll just don't get the light too close and if the patients want that you know then I don't ten years ago or whatever we've had studies that show that use of the lights actually caused Popol damage it's reversible it's temporary but when you combine high-energy photon energy and high concentration hydrogen peroxide it causes the pulp to secrete more substance P subsys P is a neurotransmitter a neurotransmitter and it's only function is to cause pain and inflammation and so if by using a light or a laser causes a lot more sensitivity during that in office session but it's not making the teeth whiter even 1% there's a horrible thing you're doing to your patients if you're doing it you know before those studies I said you know was it's okay going to the lights not helping you but go ahead and use the light if that you think the patient wants it just psychologic treatment whatever okay do that if you want but ever since those studies it really kind of upsets me because the the studies had you know they showed and I did these these these clinicals myself they showed that when you use this particular whitening gel with no photon energy you have very little sensitivity when you use no whitening gels at all but with the the photo the photo the lights and lasers you have no sensitivity it's when you combined the bleaching gel with the lights didn't you get that sensitivity and we're talking we're talking more than 10-fold sensitivity why would you put your patients through that so what type of bleaching like do you use in your office of course I use one yeah so when you look at us it's who's the only man who owned a big ole company and said we're gonna solve reaching and we're not gonna solve I well I don't think there's only one person there's certainly me dan Fisher does a silhoue okay so that's two but what do you think of it but name the companies that sell bleaching Andalite oh I don't want to do that that all let's say all all the other ones pretty much I mean yeah but I mean but what does it tell you about their ethics when they know it
Howard: so so so they're out is well the patient's crazy well when if your when your aunt Lucilla says the other night I saw two witches flying over and I think they were headed to Derby if you say well grandma I saw him too you're enabling her yeah if your other and so so what do you think of Dennis that that know this but by the light and market and a bird and well I it's a tough situation really it makes it hard you know that hard for you it's and then the next time they pose on downtown there holier than thou I'll say okay you're holier than thou
Dr. Rod Kurthy: let me let me tell you what I tell did our dentists you know this is the use of my system they'll ask me that and they'll say rod you know they people come in and they want the light and I know the light doesn't work and we know the core whitening is like crazy effective but then they leave and they find someone that does have the light so you know what should i do should I get a light should I you know won't you whatever and so here's how I have always handled it in my practice they they call it hi you know do you do you do that XYZ lightning or laser why don't you be Zoom lightning yeah that's what we hear about the most yeah and that's all by who and that's sold by Philips which was this which was which was discus yes yes and so or laser or or whatever and you could say well well no we don't use that because we use a system that's much better and Bob well you know and you go into the the benefits of it and the patient on the other interesting yeah you just don't have the light and so then they hang up and they go somewhere else so the way to handle it and I suppose you got to have a light in your office to be able to say this but we've never had anybody challenges on this but they call up and you say hey do you do that they'll say and and what your answer is you say oh yeah yeah we've done we've done a ton of those cases with with the the laser or the light and you know we can do that you know we actually have a system that works much better than that and it's the same cost but if you want that older technology with the light blue oh yeah we can do it whoa tell me about the new stuff so because you know you don't want them to think well I'm just I'm too cheap to buy a light or something like that and I've gotten so many calls from dentists laughing and telling me that that that they that there that's what they're doing their practice and how well it works but I understand the pressure you know you're you're a dentist especially if you're a young dentist you you have all your school loans you have your practice loans and you're trying to figure out how to get new patients coming in and you're telling the patients about what they need and they're not making appointments they're not paying you but you've got to pay your staff I understand the business pressures and why a lot of dentists would feel compelled to give the patients what they want otherwise you're they're gonna go somewhere else okay well that's how we have linking what about internal each unit is internal bleaching is great but it's not core bleaching it's totally different than core bleaching so for instance if you have an internally dark tooth and what's that usually going to be from trauma of some sort right even orthodontic trauma that can be from and most of the time you're gonna have a very very thin or no visible pulp on the radiograph right and maybe or or that may be to this had a root canal and so with with the core whitening excuse me you're going to get some success when you're done everything's going to be lighter and the difference the contrast is going to be less but it's still going to be darker probably sometimes it's not so that's when you would do your internal bleaching never do it the other way around you never ever ever do your internal bleaching and then do your full arts bleaching is you've totally lost control you may end up with that one tooth you did internally bleaching on being too light lighter than everything else so you do all of your your whitening if the patient's gonna have that first then you do your internal bleaching now here's that the concern is that that if you get peroxide percolating down the canal and going out the dentinal tubules into the periodontal ligament remember that one of the pathways that hydrogen peroxide will break down it can break down to oxygen and molecular oxygen and water or it will break down to the the radical way where gives off hydroxyl radicals or a high superoxide radicals uh / hydroxide radicals hydroxide raxil radicals superoxide radicals and ion hydrogen ions etc well now these radicals can cause damage in the PDL and create cimento clasts this starts doing your external resorption that's what you got to worry about so number one you got to put a great seal in there so you have to enlarge the access area enough especially in the cervical area where it's going to get in the whether the the bleach is going to get in now but you've got a seal over the root canal filling there so you want to prep into that I like to go in about three millimeters so now how are you gonna fill that you're not gonna fill it with amalgam are you gonna fill it in with composite well composite it's gonna shrink so you're gonna use bonding agent oh great you're gonna do that bonding agents going to get all over the walls of everything it's gonna block your your peroxide from getting into the tubules no you use glass ionomer because when glass ionomer does it have polymerization shrinkage no its expands right so now you don't have to use you know glass ionomer is self bonding and it expands when it sets instead of shrinking so you're gonna get an impeccable seal you do that just coronal to the osseous crest radiographically because you don't that prevents you from having any chance of hydrogen peroxide getting out into the the PDL and when you do an umbrella that's carbamide peroxide know you'd want to use well piss on the technique you're going to use with it's a walking bleaching technique or a chair sight technique I think the damn Fisher altar did they have I can't remember the name of the product but they have a product just specifically for internal bleaching and I think it's a great product you could certainly use our in office but but in that particular situation our product is going to be any better for you than anybody else's product and because Dan has one that's specifically made for that but now if you're going to use the walking technique what you want to be sure that you're going to do is you want to seal it seal it seal it before the patient walks away because remember saliva getting into any peroxide destroys it on contact so you have to have as good of a seal as any restorative a composite you've ever placed so what you do is beforehand you slightly bevel the orifice okay around the orifice and you etch that and you can even put a little tiny bit of bonding agent on there I mean you do all this other stuff and then you put that that whatever bleaching gel you're going to be putting in there and then you take some flowable composite and you run it around that bevel you hear it you run it around cure it you keep closing it and then then you take it out of occlusion now what's gonna happen is that stuff is truly sealed in there and you're gonna get a great result
Howard: final question before Ryan shoots me but the young kids have the hardest time because the patient you know it's the personal skills that are just as hard to learn as the preps kills the patient saying well it'd be cheaper just to go get the crest the crest strips at Walgreens so why should I do this this core why should I just go to Walgreens and CVS yes okay and and who's saying this patient any particular patient male/female old young but it's gonna be the cheaper they're gonna say um well how much is the crest strips fifty okay how much is the in-office all right
Dr. Rod Kurthy: so there's a lot of offends and butts here first of all hydrogen peroxide breaking down to water and molecular oxygen does nothing for whitening teeth nothing it's the radicals that come off when breaking down this other route that whiten the teeth the per hydroxyl radicals specifically do the most work problem is that when you go down that pathway one of the things that's giving off is hydrogen ions what are hydrogen ions acid pH potential of hydrogen hydrogen acid so all whitening gels as they break down they give off acid that's why all of our gels I put a buffering system in them so that we that they don't become acidic as as they're being used what are the two most common chemical stabilizers out there well for chemicals for stabilization we only use refrigeration because I don't want to stabilized I saw you interview someone that makes whitening products a few weeks ago who is bragging about saying oh we use a stabilized whitening gel really I don't want to stabilize way whitens gel because it's too stable it won't break down in the mouth when it's in the mouth I want it as unstable as it can be but so what a lot of companies that don't want to refrigerate like we do they have to add chemicals in them so it doesn't like be totally broken down before it's used and what are the two common stabilizers phosphoric acid and in an anhydrous base or aid or a less than fully aqueous base and so imagine these Crest Whitestrips how much acid is probably in there because you're talking about supermarkets this going in all these trucks to get up to 165 degrees Fahrenheit inside and they sit there and they go from store to store and all this kind of stuff so they can be very very acidic and they're not going to be as unstable as you'd want so they don't work all that well but the good thing Howard is that teenagers teeth get really really white really really fast and from my perspective I would never have let my kids use those but but you know parents are like that in general one round of Crest Whitestrips for a 14 year old or something like that I'm not opposed to that and and it will definitely it will usually help them because teenagers teeth get white so easily guys so we started on dental town the community you were saying it was a good thing because we got to know
Howard: I told all my all my friends about it and when we started that Bob person called me he said you have advertisers lying down I said no he says you got any money lined up and said no it's all in-house and we started it on Time magazine he goes well hey I'll buy the the inside cover the back cover they'd say you guys I'll buy your top three million spots until you can sell them to somebody else I thought wow I know you'd you told me that when I when I was at that college guess what's in it for you and he goes I think this would be good for dentistry oh great yeah but all these sea-captains have like you ifs and all these guys then fish or whatever myself included is um man if you're helping my homeys you're my friend and I know I don't care if your dental learning dental town I don't care who you are and that's the way you've always been so your your webinar is it's on well I just have a link it says my dot Demio calm but it's on dental learning right I guess I you know what the bleep I know I have a webinar they didn't even tell me I have whoever took set that up for me I know I'm always having to do these modeling agency gigs they don't tell me the way over there but hey seriously man think you are I'll tell you what on wouldn't have been a success if it wasn't for legends like you and again yeah I remember didn't I got sorry guy anywhere I go they go oh yeah I heard I heard broad curtains on that I heard John kink is on that I mean it was always it was nothing about dental town it was it was these legends like kenka and Cathy on the deal and and so I'm you know forever grateful man
Dr. Rod Kurthy: yeah well it's I I'm grateful just for what you've done for dentistry I mean I just think it's just unbelievable cuz I remember when
Howard: I was starting out as a young dentist I was a dental town how many times did I have problems where I would love to have asked somebody but I didn't know who to ask and when everybody said it wouldn't work I was just like that selfish guy saying I need dental town I need to show my friends ray and a picture I need help and I and the motto was with uh with downtown comm no dentist would ever have to practice so again exactly and we're one species and we're one profession and you know when people start you know you'll say a number and you'll say okay what was that American or was that global well I would hope it's about the species unless I had a reason to narrow it down to four and a half percent that were Americans and and you know the the ten commandments the eleventh commandment has never talked bad about another dentist because we're all on the same team um it was an honor to podcast interview you think so much thank you and and for anybody watching if you want to watch that webinar just caulk or whitening and ask them to send you a link and what is what is the core writing what's the number I don't know it's probably I never call it how are you if you have eight six six seven six three seven seven five three so it's eight six six seven six three seven seven five three or just go to core whitening concours Kor and you don't have to have the unlock thing you can just use English Kor yes whitening calm and this is not a commercial no one save me money but I hope you least brought a cigar so much and give your wife Shannon will do Tom hello alright my buddies!