Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
How to perform dentistry faster, easier, higher in quality and lower in cost. Subscribe to the podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dentistry-uncensored-with-howard-farran/id916907356
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1463 Dr. Ben Baranes on Mistakes to Avoid After Dental School : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

1463 Dr. Ben Baranes on Mistakes to Avoid After Dental School : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

9/18/2020 3:00:00 AM   |   Comments: 1   |   Views: 252
Dr. Ben Baranes is a general dentist practicing in Phoenix, Arizona. Dr. Baranes was born and raised in Paris, France. At the age of 18, he decided to pursue his American Dream and moved to California for his undergraduate studies. A decade later, he still feels like it was the best decision he ever made. Dr. Baranes graduated from the Arizona School of Dentistry and Oral Health in May 2019. Coming out of dental school, like many new graduates, Dr. Baranes struggled to find a good job and often found himself in difficult situations where his sense of ethics was questioned. He is now eager to help dental students avoid the same mistakes he made by being able to identify red flags in their job search.


VIDEO - DUwHF #1463 - Ben Baranes


AUDIO - DUwHF #1463 - Ben Baranes


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It is just a huge honor for me today to be podcast interviewing Dr Ben Baranis DMD he's a general dentist practicing in Phoenix Arizona he was born and raised in Paris France so are you related to Pierre Fishard did you do the 23 in me to find out is he are you his third cousin or what are you with him when I lectured in Paris I was so excited to see that museum and it was closed for remodeling when I was there i was so uh disappointed at the age of 18 he decided to pursue his American dream and moved to California for his undergraduate study a decade later he still feels like it was the best decision he ever made just I had to um Dr Baranis just had to reschedule his wedding because zelkova 19 and he hopes his wife Courtney won't change her mind until then he graduated from the Arizona school of dentistry and oral health in may 2019 which I drove by every day on the way to work as a first year dental student he attended one of Dr Howard Farrans lectures and it completely changed the way he perceives dentistry I apologize so much uh now yeah I should have some empty for my children um coming out of dental school like many new graduates um he struggled to find a good job and found himself in difficult situations with his sense of uh ethics was questioned he is now eager to help dental students avoid the same mistakes he made by being able to identify red flags in their job search he now works as an associate in a private practice where he's able to double the daily production in less than one year and enjoys complete trust and autonomy from his employer he is actively looking to find the perfect dental practice while working on improving his skills with continuing education so tell me about Courtney uh so she's already your wife but you planned a ceremony yeah so we got married at the court and everything and we had the ceremony planned and because of covet we unfortunately had to cancel it so don't you think the gods are trying to tell you something I know that's what I told her you can find better but I told her so um you know one of the rarest behaviors ever is to leave your country and move to another country it's an incredibly rare behavior there's 8 billion humans and I’ve read studies that only one percent uh do it one out of a hundred and they usually do it um because uh for a job or for love or they're running from the law is actually a quarter um so what made you want to leave beautiful Paris France and come to the united states well France is it is a wonderful country for vacation but I believe that in terms of work ethics and being able to really like create your own business and be successful I think America has opportunities there nowhere else in the world so I kind of grew up with that idea that America was the country where everything was possible and ten years after being here I still feel like that's that is true so um we all agree we all love France um you know every country does um it's the same species the same problems and I what i fell in love with traveling is um of course obviously I love to see how dentists in different countries see the same data and do things differently and that just it's been amazing but even if you apply it to how they make a door or a bathroom or a window I mean i just I just love that's the only reason I love architecture and all that kind of stuff like that is just the variance i'm just in awe of the human mind and the variance but what were you specifically seeing as growing up in France where you thought uh the united states was more free enterprise capitalism to start a business than France was it what was that correct uh my parents own their own business they own a pharmacy in France in paris and they had to work 60 over hours a week and they always told me that they pay taxes about seven months out of 12 of the year so kind of grew up in that socialist system where everything is kind of taken out of your paycheck and where the government kind of hammers you if you do make it uh so I kind of that was not a model that worked for me yeah and um it's you know i'm so old I don't believe the jury's still out I mean i just um they take all those taxes I mean you see it right now like the people into green energy I mean they don't even blink at a carbon tax or whatever because I mean that's stealing I mean they just go to the polls and next thing you know you got to give them more of your money and every time I pay those taxes I think i could have started a new division I could have hired two more employees and I would have been a better steward of that capital but these people they I it's just amazing how if I broke into their house and stole a gallon of milk and their eggs they'd call the police but then they go to the polls and break into my bank account and steal half of it and just think that they're fine I mean there's just it's just uh it's crazy how people who have nothing on their resume uh think that they're going to be better stewards of capital than me who made the capital and then they talk about income inequality we'll go you know go move to uh Afghanistan there's no income inequality there you know you're all equally you're all equally poor and the other thing like they talk about jeff Bezos you know he's got all this money it's like what do you think he does have a jacuzzi filled with cash and he just soaks in it or do you think he's doing ai and technology and satellites and rockets and all this stuff like that and if you took all that money and gave it to uh um Bernie sanders i mean what would he do with it you know just increase payroll you know the people paying taxes peso um only get social security but all the government people they get a government pension and social security and then you look at the median average hourly wage and salary of the people paying taxes versus the government they're just an elite class of thugs that steal and waste your money uh I’m gonna agree more but congratulations on just picking up and moving uh my gosh that is just crazy of course you did go to California and you were 18 so you probably thought there were a lot of scantily clad girls running around on the beach right was that part of the that was that was a big motivation so you know I just um got a text and an email um yesterday from a buddy Dennis i know out here who I’ve known since he was uh one years old and um he's looking for a job and um what's it like if you got out of school right now the thing that concerns me is you know um we've had dental towns since 1999 with free classified ads and there's always been about 1 000 dental practices for sale and about 5 000 jobs looking for an associate and now it's 2 000 dentists selling their practice and only 1 000 jobs and they're all do so it's obviously a very poor time to be looking for a job as a dentist what are you seeing in the market right here in our backyard in phoenix well I would agree with that I think kovan 19 makes things even worse for the new class of 2020 I think that unfortunately if you go on indeed if you go on those major websites all you're going to find is coos looking for new grads that is it so pretty much you have to make your own connections and that's something that we struggle as we struggle with as dental students so um you uh just said indeed.com is that the um kind of the go-to place that you'd recommend dental um dentist looking no i'm just saying that the main ones to look at jobs are going to be indeed monster and it's going to be your side dental town as well which has a lot of great ads what I would recommend for the dental students coming out of school is to make connections so let's say you have somebody that's trying to sell you disability insurance or a lab rap like use them use them ask them if they know anyone that's looking for a job there are people they're trying to sell you something so try to take advantage of it that's how I found my job you know it's um it's one of the most powerful things to try to teach a young child that you know you're a species there's eight billion of them and you have to work together against you know exploding stars and nova’s and button and viruses that that's the thing I love the most about kiva 19 is you know world war ii we're fighting other humans and you know that that's just so ugly I’m i love the fact that we're fighting another um species uh you know a virus and I it should the forces add up it should be pulling us together but you got to tell these kids in life um we're a social animal that's not what you know you don't live on an island you you're trapped on a rock nobody can get off it's already gone around the sun five billion times and it's going to go around five billion more and despite anything elan musk says you're never going to live on mars uh um if you wanted to live on well it's just crazy and the reason they think they're going to live on mars is because they tell everybody the temperature in Fahrenheit and Celsius if they were if we only did temperatures in kelvin uh you would realize that um living on antarctica would be like living in Hawaii compared to the dark side of the moon or mars I mean how are you going to spend the night at five degrees above absolute kelvin and if that's a great idea with eight billion people why isn't there a million people living in on antarctica you know there's only four thousand people on now okay and they're all government research people I mean you'd have to be out of your mind to leave earth and go live on some planet that has five degree kelvin nights it reminds me of that scene in star wars where you had to lance open that uh camel or something yeah sleep inside of it what animal is that get warm to get warm a taunting i mean yeah go to mars and take a few extra taunting and a lightsaber with you um but um so my gosh um but um you're having luck on indeed.com or um just for resources no indeed indeed.com is good only if you want to find dsos i don't think it's a good resource for a private practice job right so for private practice it's not what you know it's who you know and you can work and um you know i complained to dennis uh since day one i that um you know that delta dental of Arizona gives them a couple hundred thousand dollars a year cash and they can't even name the CEO or the director they've never met him they never had they just don't network and where i came from in my dad's sonic drive-in restaurant change chain the whole value chain works together the guy that makes the buns and the meat and they all work together and everybody in the value chain is working to try to drive down crop costs but grow the whole market um you know not i mean the guy selling hamburgers selling it to competitors and everybody around you but you all work together to grow the market like so many dentists think that the competition is the Dennis cross street when it's really a big screen tv and a trip to Disneyland and just you know anything to grow your business um so how would you recommend networking so like i said i would use firstly the people are trying to sell you something so like insurance agents and lab reps i think are wonderful resources the third thing you could do is contact some specialists in your area so first off you'll know how to refer to when you're out of school and chances are they know a dentist that's looking to cut back or bring in an associate yeah and uh so how is the um how was the drama you got out one year ago this is um yeah um so you've been out what um since may of uh I’ve been 29 2019. so I’ve worked in four different jobs i worked in two different private practices uh two different dsos so i kind of have a i mean i can tell the difference from my own experience [Music] so what i think is very important is something that you always bring up in your podcast and that i really like is like there's a lot of things to learn from dsos like i work there and the way they run their businesses those guys are MBAs they're not the MPs like they just they just get it so i think there's just so much to learn from them the way they run their systems and their staff is just so on point yeah it's having a mentality that the glass is half full it's not half empty i mean um they you know they'll go work some place for a year and they'll say oh it's horrible and I’ll say well that ds owns 25 dental offices how could you not learn anything from somebody else 25 if you look at a guy with 25 dental offices and you have none and you don't think there's anything to learn from that person you just it's just your attitude determines your altitude and your aptitude so but this um this is a common thing i see um with uh young graduates where you know working somewhere else isn't a pan you know this great thing because if they're five years out of school they've had at least five jobs and you're a very aggressive guy i mean you changed countries you had four jobs in a year so what was it basically was it kind of like dating like you went on a date and you said never and just you know you were done you didn't need five more days from what you knew yeah so the first dso that i worked at uh like i said i get a lot of positive from it but there are certain things that happened that were just not ethical and i and i was a comfortable thing there um so i just i enjoyed the systems they put in place i got to see over 40 patients a day and i got to work with people that didn't have enough money that maybe saw the special see the specialist so i really took advantage of that and kind of pushed my skills uh that being said when you have a manager that tries to tell you that your proficiency srps tries to tell you that it's okay to put braces on the guy that has severe perio i mean just certain things that you just can't do as a doctor so and that is why it's these dentists say that i mean you got to hold the line that you have to be a dentist to own a dental office and you know that's what the laws of the 50 states found and i understand how you can argue that that's just um you know self-serving dentist or self-serving they want to be the judge jury and the executioner but i i don't see it in other freedom price things like when um when you saw like when henry ford was actually an engineer and the entire plant was made in one place they were just higher qual they were the best cars of the time but then you but when they start outsourcing to 30 000 different parts made all over you know the world and they just assemble cars they're just assembling crap um it scares me when i'm getting this old and i got six grandkids my little jasper just turned two yesterday um i i don't want him to grow up in a world where all the dentists or dental offices are owned by bankers and insurance companies in wall street because then where's my little jasper going to go if he needs a dentist that's true that is scary yeah it's yeah it's scary and they have offices where they give they give some dental students out of school just three patients and they tell them hey you got to make 3 000 out of those three patients i don't care if they need nothing you got to make 3 000 today and it's just not it's just not a viable model and what is the and um what is the um go to like if i only get three patients today and i got to do three thousand dollars what's the low-hanging fruit go to uh that they try to make that money um what are what are the most common um things or tactics that they would try to get you to make 3 000 bucks on three patients well i think they they're very big on scaring the patient okay so kind of coming in the room kind of strong and letting them know hey your mouth is full of disease like there's a lot of things that are going on and it's kind of a scare tactic kind of letting them know there's an urgency to their care which can be good in certain situations i mean obviously some patients would rather buy a new iPhone than get a crown i understand that but at the same time like if somebody has an old mod and it looks great it doesn't need a crown i mean this yeah convince me that that every mod that's been there for over five years needs to be crowned it's just not that's yeah and then dentists you know they have a lot to blame in this too because um they you know you show them you show them data and they're always they just deny it like i mean i mean look at an amalgam i mean it's metal it's and you compare that to a composite it's plastic does anybody in the kitchen think that the metal fork in their drawer kitchen drawer is stronger and gonna last i mean weaker and gonna last a shorter period of time than the plastic fork uh that they got in their happy meal i mean you know it's uh at kfc i mean it's not gonna happen um and in fact i love to play with patients the most because uh they always say well you know um if they bring up the word natural they go are these filling materials i don't i don't want any like artificial or chemicals or do you have anything like natural i go nah do i got anything natural oh my gosh we have silver fillings i mean that is made in a collapsing star and uh you know the uh the um this um the stars collapse they form these heavy elements of gold and silver and we can i got a filling that will be all natural elements made in an exploding supernova and my gosh it'll probably last 38 and a half years and you're right i don't think we should do one made of those tooth colored plastic that's made in a chemical laboratory i've been there they just order barrels of chemicals and mix it all up so you're ready to have an all-natural silver filling like no i i'm actually psychotic and i just thought i was supposed to say that to check off my box it's like um my gosh um so um so they um they're aggressive treatment planners it sounds like i mean they go in there to present now does the dentist present the treatment or do they bring in someone up from up front to present the treatment uh they'll bring a manager as well i was very big on working on my case presentation skills so i also presented myself um but yeah they do they do have somebody come in that's that that has a business background to present well you know one thing i want for my six grandkids is um if you know if i'm not here um if they got four cavities and they're 250 a piece and it's a thousand dollars cash and they should just pay for their own money you shouldn't need a government subsidy or a subsidy from uh your employer and i know my grandkids are gonna spend the thousand bucks on the iphone um so true if i sent if my grandkid had um one cavity and i sent him to four dentists and only one dentist was able to get him to part with 250 bucks to get a filling i i have to say that dennis is the best one the three that couldn't convince them to get treatment um you know have failed their patient uh because they don't understand it's not only what you know but who you know as a dentist telling what you know but what you can transfer to the patient that's true so they act on it but the but the concern is that someone would be using that tactic to sell something they didn't need you know that's correct so what did you what did you learn the most about a treatment plan presentation to take it serious well treatment plan presentation the most important thing is to connect with the patient that's the number one thing like i would see how that manager was walking and she would first talk about their nails their shoes they weren't talking about dentistry for the first five minutes it's all about people connection and then the second thing is making them see value like you said they would rather spend money on an iphone than a crown so you have to make them see value so connect with the patient and then uh um show value right people spend money right yeah people time and money it's just everything um so um what are you seeing uh we're both in phoenix right now you're actually in are you in phoenix right now i'm in phoenix right now okay so we're both in the city of phoenix um what are you seeing in the job market here is it just dsos uh you said on indeed.com uh for dentistry it was just dsos uh for new grads yes unfortunately it's pretty hard to get a job in a private practice for a new grad i know if you see this those private practices job that you'll see some of them will tell three years minimum i even had some that said 10 years minimum on indeed and a little intimidating from your grasp but well here here's what's um here's what works then again we're talking phoenix arizona we live in phoenix i don't know what it's like to practice in Paris France or Montreal so obviously you're fluent in French so is um is Quebec your new best uh is Montreal your new best uh French fix if you get it needed they have a pretty different accent i will i will i will tell you that really is it appropriate to get back yes they do they do um when you grew up were you ever sad that um napoleon uh sold the Louisiana purchase to uh i would i would have never had to learn English you would we'd be speaking French right now and it's really weird because um the French quarters and Montreal and paris the only thing they have in common is a language but those are three pretty diverse cultures aren't they that is true that is true but i the French they uh i do you think they know how to um relax and have fun more than uh say Germans or um British oh definitely they're not as hard of workers and they know how to enjoy themselves a little more i would i would agree with that and i'm going to say this and i know i know i shouldn't say this so i should just shut up and not say it but i mean if you put a 60 or any 60 year old French lady and she's sitting in between a 60 year old German and British lady i mean the French lady still rocking it has the attitude she's still gorgeous and beautiful and rocking it and the other two look like you know they're bricklayers i mean they uh you know they just uh they're just they're just a fun uh of fun people um but i'll see i'll see if i have an auntie i can introduce you to Howard no i i've uh after when you spend 3.8 million on your axe you're you lose interest in the whole genre uh but uh yeah I’d rather uh I’d rather uh date my merle lynch account uh but um so when um how many dsos actually are if they went to indeed.com or monster job like how many dsos are there because dsos is kind of a weird word because everybody thinks that means uh Fontana’s aspen or workman's heartland or thorns pacific dental care but the majority of dsos aren't household names they're just like three to eight offices or something like that um when you say that mostly the dsos are hiring are you talking about the big brands or in phoenix are you talking about little no names the big brand they're big brands yes the big brand one of them is especially uh pacific dental when i interviewed for them last year they had 80 offices i think around and they told me they were they wanted to double that number in the next few years so i think they're very big on the market right now and that's uh they had a pacific dental has 80 dental offices in the state of arizona or the phoenix metro i i'm not exactly sure about a number but when i interviewed last year they mentioned uh they were around 80 to 100 and they wanted to be above 150. so they're growing quite a bit and that's something i wanted to talk about for students it's kind of it kind of depends on where you want to take your career like a company like pds i mean i have i have colleagues that work with them i don't have any problems but for me being a general dentist who can only do crowns and fillings is not something i'm interested in so that's just i mean if you work for them for three years and you've never done a root canal extraction it's gonna be tough for you to jump ship to a different practice so and i think they kind of play that role to kind of lock you in their system where all you can do is drill and fill and then they put you on that path to ownership where you really only own 45 of your office are you really an owner when you own 45 of your office that's a real question so well it's not a math question i mean uh you know i mean i'm pretty sure i mean um i'm not sure about the cosine the tangent but um if someone owns 55 and you own 45 you're a minority owner and you have no um no you have nothing and having a bunch of people retire as patients for 33 years i can't tell you how many stories they told me that well you know i thought when i retired you know i bought into the company and i owned uh three percent of this big company that i worked for and then of course the two brothers owned you know 90 and i thought it would be worth this but the only person i can really cash out with is these two guys and they only said they'd give me this much money and um and you know it was a very kind of an ugly thing but yeah so they um they want these minority owners for why is it to keep them um lifers at um at the company or is it a legal deal where they need um owners i think there's two things uh one like you said they want to keep them kind of locked in for a long time and another thing i've been seeing is kind of a compared to your generation and mine is i think there's a change of mentality in a lot of dentists so when i was a first-year student they asked the class like hey like what is the most important to you in your career and i thought some would say ownership or implant and a lot of my classmates answered free time hobbies and so a lot of people get out of dental school and they're more worried about how much paid vacation they're going to have instead of what kind of procedures they'll be able to do and i am i identify more to older dentists like you because i don't i don't really understand how you get out of school with four or five hundred thousand dollars in loan and you're mostly worried about your next vacation to take like it's not something i fully understand so you're um so what you're referring to is the um what everyone's seeing is the psychographics um always change with each generation and uh you see it in japan like when i was uh over there in japan um in a few different cities um it was amazing um how many of the dentists told me that they you know they grew up and it was so competitive to um in grammar school to get in the best high school and so competitive high school to get the best college and then um out of college to get the best job at honda or Toyota or whatever and then you they work 12 hours a day six days a week and um come home and drink sake straight from the bottle at night and then they die of a heart attack at 65 and so what did the next generation did well number one um they dropped to under one kid per family i mean they're not you know you need 2.3 kids per family um to just keep the herd the same level and they're at 0.9 every morning in japan they have less people than the night before so yeah so those young kids um in dental school are saying i actually really don't want to be like Howard and spend my life doing that i want to camp and fish and crochet whatever they want to do so do you think um what percent of the psychographics of the dental school at a.t still um have the Milton Friedman capitalism thoughts that you and i have versus you know i just want to i just want to have a nice ride you know i would say i would say it's like one-third of our of your mentality i would say so one-third um so one-third um one free enterprise ownership one ownership and uh two thirds uh just want a job one a nice job exactly yeah any other changes and now um some people suggest that maybe that's because it went from an all-male profession you know 100 years ago to now half the class is women the are in that one-third ownership is that 50-50 men women or is there um does um does that play into that or not really i mean one of the first people in my class about practice is a female so i'll hide to Dr Faye barrera in san Diego so i don't know if that's true i don't know if that's true so yeah i i don't think it's true when i look at my class of 1987 there were 20 women in there and the average of those 20 women bigger better practices hands down i mean they were they i mean there were so many of them that walked out of that school did smart demographics or like Kansas city has a dental school downtown why the hell would i stay here and they'd drive like less than an hour out of town and they would go into they'd find some town with 5 000 people there was no one there and they'd be doing you know a million out of the gate and drove it all the way up to two and three and now that i'm uh 58 um a lot of them are already completely retired they're done and but it's funny it's funny if you're thinking about retiring um these types of people i don't think they make very good retirees because a couple of them had completely sold out moved a different city completely retired and then actually wouldn't got a job as an associate with someone else just because you know they're dentists they want to do some dentistry but back to what you said um about the endo and the oral surgery and the not hiring a new grads out here's what i got to tell the new grads i mean i'm not your friend if i sugarcoat it and tell you what you want to hear you know if i really love you and respect you and we're all sovereign colleagues i got to tell you the god-awful ugly truth and that is when you come out of school and you go work some place and you do uh 10 molar root canals your first year and of course you had four jobs in a year and everyone i meet every year they've been out they've had a different job so you meet any dentist five years out of school that doesn't own their own practice they they've had five different jobs but when they leave a lot of those root canals are gonna fail and have to be sent to an endodontist to be retreated and you know and the office warranties that and all that implants has proven to be it's absolutely mathematically proven that um you don't make any money having a young associate placing implants until they've placed you know well over 100 or 200 or 300 so they come out of school they take some course they start placing some implants and then they leave and they go get another job in another city another state and then you got to you know send them um to your specialist to have them redone and so if you do five implant cases and say the um the office has 65 overhead say you pay the dentist 25 say you're netting 15 from having capital employed in a dental office which is um a great return considering the s p 500 only has a five percent profit margin uh for the Russell 5000 well when you have to go pay money to have this case redone it costs the profits of four other cases so that is why they want um endodontists to come in the place and do all the molar endos and they want a periodontist or an oral surgeon to come in and place all the implants so economically that's what works and even religiously i mean treat other people like you want to be treated if i had to have a vasectomy i wouldn't want it to be done by Stevie wonder who's never done it before if i got a guy over here who's done 10 000 of them you know i mean i want them to have some experience uh and then the insurance companies are complicit in this too i don't know um i could assume why I’d prefer they just come on the show and tell me but they don't have the balls to do that is um they pay the endodontist more and i always wonder if it's because they're looking at the five-year mortality rate of a root canal where i've seen data where if general dentists do 100 molars in five years 10 percent are extracted whereas if the endodontist does it five are extracted so if they have twice the success rate or half the failure rate uh that might be why it's to their advantage to um pay into specialist more money so if i have an associate in my office um same as me when i work when i work i pay myself 25 on production because that's the true value of a dent of a an associate dentist in my marketplace which is very separate than the 15 net income profit from having capital employed in today's dental so don't peanut butter and jelly um how much money you make um based on um adding this how much money i made being a dentist in this country versus this is how much money i had from having capital employed in dental office because you got to think like that because someday you might have a different alternative with that money you know you might sit there and think uh this 16 unit complex is a better bet than an additional dental office so um so the um so not wanting to hire kids i mean um not wanting them to do specialty work i the market is totally driving towards specialists doing that but it looks like it's an economically good thing for the owner so where are you out on your journey you're only one year and three months out of school how long do you think you'll work for someone else um until the journey says that you want your name on the door probably another year or two probably i started i'm starting to look to add practices right now but just to go back on what you said uh about root canals and endo and the failure you did mention and that the only thing you don't have to tell is a root canal and that kind of stuck with me because i stuck that endo in dental school and i really invite dental students to kind of push themselves to really take on find a mentor i work with somebody that was very good at root canals and he kind of shadowed me and showed me how to do muller endo and i went from like ghetto purchase two millimeter out of the apex to like Colorado in less than an hour now so really kind of push yourself because it's a huge practice builder so that's something i would say to new grass who um who's mentoring you is it a specialist or is it a general dentist who's mentoring i had a general dentist Dr Torgerson mentor me on Fernando and he had he had been practicing for over five years and i i could see his cases look beautiful so i asked him for help so i would i would highly suggest new gratitude to push themselves not just do what you're comfortable with try to do a little bit more um yeah the other thing so you so i do want to look for practice in about two years the other thing i would tell uh new grads is to kind of be ready for a change of mentality from dental school to a regular uh practice what can really help you guys to get there i would say this book here changed my life uh ten thousand dollars a day dentist by Dr bill Williams oh yeah this one i'm on the show and this guy too uncomplicated business i think every new dental grad should read these two books i really really suggest it why is that it's because when you're in dental school you're in a model where you can only do quadrant dentistry you don't do same-day dentistry and you don't do comprehensive and i think these are the three pillars to be a successful uh new grad is do same day forget about quadrant dentistry and try to do everything so that is a lesson that it takes them 10 years to figure out and it's funny all the crazy ways uh dentists um get trapped in this number one is they you know someone comes in and they say oh you need a root canal but you know we don't have time cause we gotta we gotta get you out of this chair because we have another patient scheduled in in in 15 minutes so we gotta get you out of here and flip the chair so they do all that and then the next patient doesn't show up and it's like and then i look at the overhead okay so the overhead um you charge a thousand dollars for a crown uh but the um uh signing up for a volume discount ppo the um you agreed to do a volume of patience for 650. so you've already you know so you already have 35 overhead just on your fee reduction and then you got to pay um you know staff 25 labor 10 supplies five percent whatever and you know and i'm like well where's this operatory cost i i don't even see it on your statement of cash flow i mean this person was here they wanted treatment and you got him out of the room because the constraint was an operatory and i'm looking at your statement of cash flow and i don't see this constraint showing up on the statement of cash flow and then you look at the guys who net the most money they don't all have an emergency room they usually might even have two especially if they're an endodontist or an oral surgeon because that oral surgeon and those endodontists um it's the 80 20 rule it's a pareto effect i mean uh the Italian economist who figured out in Italy uh your neighbor growing up that um 80 percent of the land in Italy was owned by 20 of the people and he started looking and everywhere he looked he kept finding this 80 20 rule and uh my gosh the um so these specialists they'll say well about 25 guys refer to me but it's like seven guys that that make i make send me everything and uh like an endodontist like you know these seven guys give me everything great molars all this these guys just give me a retreat a broken file something failed and i'm gonna spend so much longer on that i don't even know if it's profitable and it's a pain in the butt um so it when that guy calls and says hey ben can you do a favor i got this patient here is there any way you can see her today like she he he's not gonna tell one of his seven no because you might call another endodontist and he never sees you again you know what i mean so those specialists man they have two and by emergency room um when you tell me things like well we have an emergency room it's room four okay well i'm looking at the schedule in room for right now and there's three people scheduled in it today one yesterday two tomorrow an emergency room is no one's ever intentionally scheduled there it's for walk-ins emergencies it's so the person answering the phone can say well can you come down right now and then and then so you know and by the way um when they tell me they don't have room for another operatory i can find the room every single time and they say well dude this is my private office i say well superman worked out of a phone booth i don't know why you need all this crap um and um and then the same day of course they want it it's all impulsive i mean who could who could read any economic journals and not know that people are impulsive uh they buy it on a whim uh they have too many cocktails on Friday night and the next thing you know they're down buying a new car and uh you know um i'll never forget one time i walked into i was pretty impressed but they must have not they must i couldn't tell i was Irish but anyway it was in Chicago on that miracle mile or it's called something like that um by the way where the ada is right i walked in there and i saw some cool shirt in the window the first thing the guy asked me says what do you drink beer wine vodka and i said vodka on ice and he made me a double vodka on ice i thought oh my god this guy's a casino he's trying to get know how he all liquored up and dropped a thousand i mean i was impressed uh by um how smart these guys were playing um but um so what else um do you think these young kids need to know i think another thing is that has nothing to do with dentistry is it it's kind of focused on your finances as well i mean i'm a i see a lot of my classmates got out of school and they went straight to the tesla the Lexus dealership i mean it's great that you became a doctor but i really think things are just starting right now you have half a million in depth you have to be smart about what you do you can't just think because you have doctor next to your name that you deserve to drive a BMW it is not true so well um why well first of all i want to ask you this do you think um not living below your means is uh special uh to uh um dentistry physicians and lawyers more than the average person or do you think it um goes across the board uh i would say we're probably worse than other people because we've been in school for so long with no money that once we finally get a nice paycheck we're a little yeah and uh it's um they don't have a dental office budget like you know um between um you know the end of the year between um you know Christmas and new year's and all that time off you know you're trying to write your end-of-year letter um evaluate the goals of last year trying to set the goals and budgets and plans for next year and 90 of dentists don't do that for their business or their personal life and they just always live above their means and they don't realize how stressful that's going to be um you know and even in our backyard here there's so many kids that graduate that they could go back and live with their parents and i i've sat in front rooms where i've seen it offered ah you know because they're thinking about i want to go to Scottsdale and go to a club and drag some uh person back to my man cave and all this stuff and the next thing you know they're you know they're overheads up they got a nice car they got a nice house they got a nice this and they don't they don't even own any business assets that are making money like a savings account where you know i mean why do we have the Rockefeller center because he knew every dollar he put in the bank uh it would pay him a nickel until the end of time and so the guy's been dead a century and those nickels all add up to billions of dollars a year funding all these research and the thing that scares me the most about dennis is even when they're mighty you know how many dentists i know of my age that are still paying a nickel a dollar interest to other people for the use of their money instead of earning a nickel on a dollar for interest um to where you basically so here's the deal so if you can set your live below your means and you can get it down to where i can live off one dollar a year and then you sit there and you buy 20 um bonds for a dollar each that each pay you a nickel a year as soon as your nickels add up to the your living cost you're done you're absolutely done but if you keep raising your living cost and you keep raising your income and you keep using other people's money you never cross the chasm and hear something um that's brutally true whenever i see an American um dentist that quickly gets from paying for the use of other people's money today versus earning money as interest on my own money save today they're never born in the united states they're always from Africa Asia they came somewhere else so the guy like you who's who analyzed you know 208 countries 8 billion people and said i'm moving my chess piece over here my gosh you guys you guys always do it fast i mean they come out of ump four hundred thousand dollars in that and they were born in Vietnam four years later their student loans are paid off and they're savings cash and i say well you know how much money do you spend on a house and you know what they say dude i live in my office i don't even have a car and this is my office number and all i can't wait every day is to all the Americans clock out at five o'clock and go home and leave me with san Francisco who's gonna keep grinding and breaking teeth and they're gonna come in here with a broken tooth and i'm gonna do a 2500 root canal build up and Sarah cad cam crown and they're gonna pay for it on their visa before i start i mean it's just it's just a whole nother world you're right you're right you're right and those 50 000 that you're putting in a new car is about what you need to put down on your next practice so don't forget that so now do you now where did you where did you learn that um did your parents live below their means so like i said my parents uh work 60 hours a week so the really hard workers i think they're the only two people that work this hard in France i think it's just it's just them too uh so they kind of taught me that you know just you and it's not about what you make it's really about what you keep right so it's kind of what you say if you really look at numbers in retirement i think school teachers have a higher number a higher percentage of millionaires at retirement than dentists do and i think that's all you got to say i mean so that was written by and you are and that was written by two PhDs and it was called the millionaires next door and this guy could not believe it how um and it goes back to what we talked about psychographics when you're a teacher well you know you're not going to walk in a bar and say i'm a teacher and everybody's going to think oh you got a Ferrari in a big house they think well you're a teacher um on labor day you just charcoal hamburgers and hot dogs and drink a beer and teachers just live below their means and then they start saying i'll give you another one my uncle he only had one job and he got a job at mobile oil when he was like 16 years old and when he filled out a form it just had a little checkbox says do you want us to withhold um you know three percent of your money uh for your retirement count and it just came down to just you know he's a 16 year old kid in parsons Kansas and he just thought well that sounds like a smart idea so he checked that box next thing you know he's 65 and has millions of dollars millions of dollars but he never saw the money it was withheld he never thought about it he never looked at it and he just kept on working his garden working his garden when it was time to retire they're like and you know i mean it's just amazing how compounded interest works i mean even albert Einstein said it was the eighth one what do you say was the eighth wonder of the universe compounded interest but it doesn't matter about compounded interest because i know what my guy is doing he's trying to invest to hit a home run in a stock market while he's still paying out interest you know on debt to other people's money um forever and ever i want to say another thing about that um the young kid starts with one tooth dentistry and then you know five years later he starts thinking uh well hell if i have the whole quadrant numb i might as well do both fillings you know the whole quadrant stump but they but it takes them a long time they say well i can't do the whole mouth and i'm like why not well you can't numb up both sides i'm like okay well two doors down is an oral surgeon and he numbs up all four quadrants eight times a day five days a week for 40 years and who would want to who would want to have three visits to have something done they're in your office um they're here same day dentistry is the main mantra of dentistry there's eight billion people and they walked in your office pay attention to that person and you got to kick them out because you don't have a chair i mean when you know i mean come on right yeah i mean they haven't been in for 10 years what makes you think they're going to show up for their six-month recall i mean you have them now just the second they walk out the door life gets in their way and you lost them so and then the um the great advantage i have uh growing up uh um basically you know poverty trailer trash in Kansas for 10 years is i couldn't believe it's not so bad now but when i got out in 87 so many of the dentists they didn't like those people they're like well those people don't take care of their teeth they hadn't been to dennis in five years and then he called me up and wants to be seen today who is this idiot i mean i'm over here treating mars Wimbledon and she comes in every three months for 40 years and i say well have you done any dentistry on her every three months and 40 years no i just do a 65 cleaning while i pay my hygienist 40 dollars an hour in an overhead situation a 65 and i love her and i'm like well i'm glad you love her because i don't want to see her again i want to see that trailer trash guy that he's a long hauler one of the best patients i ever had in my life he uh ran runs cargo from la to Singapore that's all he's done he's worked on one cargo boat back and forth back and forth never has to walk to my office one day so i can't believe this but i got five days off because my teeth are you know they're killing me out there i'm in the middle of the damn pacific ocean you know trying to pick out everything oh my god not only did i set him down and do his whole mouth uh my assistants were looking at patients that we knew they came in a long time and they just pick up the phone say i'm so sorry but i'm afraid if you came down here how he's going to be running late because we got this big case this problem he's a toothache guy he works on a boat and they're like oh no worries no worries i'll reschedule come in Friday or whatever and we just went to town on him i mean it was just a and he was so grateful and i mean it was it was just fantastic but i mean right same day dentistry the um don't don't judge your patient i mean why do i care i remember getting the lecture actually i still remember his name his name was uh the oral surgeon Dr Brett Ferguson in uh Kansas city and i said to him and on the oral surgery i said well do you think that guy was in a fight or do you think he caused it or he goes it's none of your business we're dentists we have a problem here we're gonna fix the problem all that other crap is not in here you know i got we got a guy he's been busted up and we're gonna go help him and uh we're not here to find out who said what or made a joke about your mom i mean you know we're dennis and uh i just thought i just think it's gross when you look at the specialties and one of them is dental public health when you still have people out there saying that there's a patients b patient c patients and d patients and you only want to work on the a patients i mean isn't that kind of nationalism racism religious that kind of everything that's wrong with the world all wrapped up into one no you're right and you know even in dental school when you think most of your patients are very low income i had this lady that that struggled with a drug addiction came in didn't even have a car and like holes in her pants and i presented her with all four cases and my instructor was like you're crazy you're wasting your time and guess what her brother called the school and wired 25 000 so you can never assume anything so yeah and when and when i was growing up i was always amazed at how like in Wichita like the richest person in town was obviously dan carney the founder of pizza hut and um and another one was um that i had um that i'd heard a lot of people had met from uh um Arkansas uh down the river um Sam Walton but you would look at these guys and you look at their clothes and you'd look at the what they're driving and you just would have thought it was just the normal old man that lived down the street you never would have thought that guy owns several thousand uh pizza huts or Walmart’s i mean um oh my gosh and in fact in Scottsdale the big joke is um fake it till you make it and if you go to Scottsdale and you see five BMWs driving down the street all five of them are leased or owned are five year payments or six year payments but if you drive out to chandler arizona suburb or Glendale or god forbid Peoria and you see somebody with a BMW they bought it in cash i mean that's a different mindset i mean i basically dress like a homeless person but that's uh that's basically i'm just trying to dress like my dad i mean uh um my gosh so um what are the main dsos hiring in uh phoenix arizona i mean i know we have a lot of pacific dentals we have um a lot of heartland dentals um which ones are bigger um is there more pacific or heartland yeah one and then sorry go ahead have you gone to aspen's new call center i have not oh my gosh talk about it it's just like leaving um America and going to the max planks institute to get a lesson on you know physics i mean they won't hire anybody with dental experience because it's harder for them to untrain you than to train them they have a guy working the floor and they're in pods and they can convert if you call aspen dental two out of three people are gonna hang up the phone and go to the dental office whereas in dentistry um only one out of three is gonna convert so they double the conversion rate and um it's a huge building and uh i um i just went down there and uh you know and you're nice guy and you tell them you know you play humble and curious and then they start showing off and uh in fact i met bob Fontana down there one night and uh holy moly so these dsos i'm i mean where is that sorry where is the s been call center um in chandler uh chandler yeah let me see if uh i'll write it down i might do the same thing i don't think i could i don't know if bob wants me saying this on a podcast but um okay email me later Howard on time.com but it's right there in chandler but oh my gosh it was just so amazing because we talked about earlier where the deal is you know they haven't been to the dentist in years so they're calling today so same day get them to come down now but you don't have an opera you don't have an operator okay that's great and then and then when you ask me how do you get rid of no shows and cancellations like well you won't let anybody in the front door when they call so why should you be mad when they don't show up the other thing was a bread and butter dentistry you made a comment that um you said that um you know you don't endo's the one thing you don't to sell i mean they come in they're hurting they're in pain they're begging you for treatment and most of all the guys out there that i know doing a million bucks a year collections taking home a quarter million a year on an easy four day work week they're all just doing bread and butter um dentistry um they do about seven root canals a month um and they do um extractions if you can't extract a tooth and you can't do a root canal you're not a doctor okay you're some type of weird molar mechanic maybe you're into Botox or bleaching bonding and that's great i love you and i know there's beauty salons on every corner uh but that's not doctor stuff doctor stuff gets you numb and gets you out of pain and that's why it's one of the 12 specialties and i don't know why you can't pull two now granted um i know i got lucky when i was out of school if um i couldn't if i started the extraction and couldn't finish it if it was during office hours i would just um put the patient in the car and drive him over to the oral surgeon don gas and bless his heart he would you know he's like looking at this dumb kid and he'd finish it of course he charged and all that or whatever and then if it was after hours or another special open i added dennis just two miles down 48th street bob Sundberg god dang i love that he he'd always joke he goes yeah Howard pulls out the top half of the tooth and then i come in and pull the bottom half of the tube shout out to nick gidwani um he he helped me and saved me so many times but that's what doctors do i mean an emergency room you don't show up in an emergency room with a broken leg and have to hear i'm sorry ben we don't do legs we just do eyelashes and ears it's like are you yeah i thought this was a hospital no there's no real doctors here we we're gonna have to send you somewhere else where there's a real dog so pull the tooth and the worst case scenario is you're stuck so that's the advantage of group practice someone can help unstuck you but that's the power of networking that's why when you learn implants i don't want you to fly to Florida you're in phoenix there's so many period on us that will let you observe them over the shoulder you need to learn it from that guy because when you are in over your head you need to know that guy and you know having some certificate on your wall that you're the diplomat who gives a crap i took all the initials after my name DDS FAGD MAGD uh d-i-c-o-i and i rolled them all up to bfd uh i'd rather have a friend that can fix it right here right now than a bunch of initials after your name and the patients don't know what it means to mean um and so if you can't do um basic endo and basic oral surgery um along with your fillings crowns and stuff for kids and all that stuff and that's what you need to focus on but they always want to go buy a laser or a cad cam or they want to go spend a bunch of money they don't have so of course they have to borrow it and give that person a nickel for every dollar they borrowed and they never crossed the finance deal and it's like dude why don't you just learn how to extract teeth do endo and fillings and crowns and build a family practice that's what all the dsos are doing that's correct and i shouldn't say all the eso's because most all the dsos are heartland specifics they all love the neighborhoods with 60 000 median incomes and above they like that suburban rich dental crowd whereas what i love about aspen is bob Fontana he he wants to go where they ain't and he saw they ain't in the poor areas they're on Medicaid and a lot of removable they don't have an in-house lab so he took Medicaid an in-house lab and good demographics going with her where they am not and he's got a thousand offices later to show that that model works successful so are you more inclined to go where they am not and go to Eloy and practice on um that type you know that lower socio-economic area or are you more interested in the Scottsdale paradise valley i live in Scottsdale i don't i have a zero interest in working in Scottsdale no i'm more interested in in bread and butter blue collar middle class America i think is i think it's where it's at for me at least and and then you got to look at the contraction data so um you know Lehman’s day was a huge um so was the y2k the y2k uh when you know the um when that market crashed in march of 2000 i got to see the after effects of dentistry and then i got to see it again after Lehman’s day but i always note that the two you take all the 50 to 80 failures at that one 12 month period it was two groups it was the um lifestyles of the rich and famous Scottsdale dental offices and then it was the guy who just opened up his office and was banking on everything he had seen that if for every time you mail out 100 flyers one patient comes in he had all these metrics of marketing and a marketing plan and knew he could buy patient flow which equals cash flow and the marketing stops in a collapse because i mean you see it right now in America the savings rate is going up faster than the stock market um people are um you know people when the economy contracts people think well this isn't the time to go on a vacation and buy a new car and spend all my money i'm scared so when you're scared you want to keep all your gold coins and your little sack and hold them and so the new guy that just opened his marketing stopped working and then the guy who's doing the lifestyles of the rich and famous i would just say to them i said well okay so you're not gonna do a bunch of veneers and all on fours and all this fancy Scottsdale stuff just go back to bread and butter practice but he referred out 100 of his endo 100 of his extractions he hadn't done a denture in 10 years he basically um lost his entire skill set to have a family practice exactly and that's what i do yeah i'm sure you're familiar with phoenix i work on 19th avenue and camelback it's far from being the nicest area and we do mostly access and we it's not uncommon for us of days we produce over 10k in production so i mean it's you don't have to be intense cocktail too to make money i agree with that yeah and it depends on where you're from or how you're raised but i'm i was from Wichita Kansas i just i just relate to people from phoenix and Guadalupe a hundred times i never forget the first part i went to in Scottsdale and i was trying to i was meeting this dentist and he was talking about this other day i said which one is he and he told me it's the guy in the Burbank shoes i'm like you know the name of a pair of shoes i'm like where the hell are you from i i've never heard a person refer to the name of a parachute before i mean i just don't fit in that crowd and um you know it's just a different type of people but uh i just think um like take Guadalupe i'm across the street from the Guadalupe Indian reservation 5 000 legal um Guadalupe Indians and about 25 000 undocumented people living there and you'll get them in and you'll do the extraction and and um you know pa um exam extraction get them out of pain and then the next day the lady's right back and she's brought you some homemade tamales and gives you a hug i mean i love that exactly yeah and then on Scottsdale you're just praying that they don't leave you a bad yelp review because you know some something didn't go over with entitled bear and uh exactly yeah it's just it just it just seems more low stress and more fun like you're talking about that lady she was a drug addict you know it just seems like a drug addict in your dental office is gonna be probably the most humble patient you've had today and then the person that inherited grandpa's money is going to be the biggest pain in the ass of the day that's correct so what um i can't believe we've already talked for an hour but i don't want to let you go and what i should do is shut up because um again you're you just graduated from school one year ago and i'm getting a lot of emails and texts from dennis right here in our town and um they're looking for a job and uh so um between the three that we were just talking about between um heartland and aspen and um pacific dental do you know of anybody that's hiring like today um straight out of school or uh no experience i think aspen and pds do that aspen dental is hiring today and pbs pacific dental services and um but heartland you don't know if they're hiring uh heartland i don't think so when i when i was looking at them a year ago they were trying to expand Tucson instead of phoenix so i don't know if that's still that's still accurate yeah um and um besides the big three pacific heartland aspen um any other dsos out here that you see i i i've worked with mp2 and i've enjoyed it so i think it's one of the better ones out there in my opinion have you seen okay we'll talk about that um why do you like mb2 and by the way have you seen the threat on dental town asking him out and talking about mb2 i have not i'll go check it out right after this uh well i know all uh yeah um it's um it's eight pages long oh wow and it just has anyone heard of mb2 dental so tell me um what you've heard i work with them i filled in for a doctor and i was looking at a position it's just a good way to be a lazy owner it seems like so it's still the part ownership but it seems like they're a lot more hands-off and they give a lot more power to their doctors so the company is owned by a dentist itself too and they don't really i didn't get the vibe of unethical treatment or any of that it seemed a lot more laid back and yeah it just seemed like a better company to me so um that does seem to be a big complaint is when people are um being told by office managers how to diagnose or Dreamline like when um someone asked me and they said well you know our office manager says that 30 of all new patients should um have periodontal disease i said well go send her to some physician that says a hundred percent of all new patients um have a chlamydia infection and uh see uh how uh see if that works for so um so they're not um backseat driving yeah that i mean i don't have that much experience with them but from the few times i've interacted with them i know this seemed like this seemed like they were they were better yeah and um who um who is um the owner of that is that um oh it's uh let me check it's mb2 his name is uh Dr vogue Dr glen Glenville uh there he is there he is what a uh oh i okay my brain's better founder and CEO of nifty uh if you said nifty thrifty dentists i would have got it uh but uh so anyway so what other um hmos or uh dsos are out here what are the diesels out here i think comfort dental is out as well um confidential uh let's talk about let's talk about comfort dental and tell me um what you um think of uh that because that's rick Kirshner as opposed to rick workman yeah glenvau uh was on episode 1254. but rick Kirshner of comfort dental um that was um he is an interesting franchise where they they're all owner operators i mean you what he does he does it basically it's the McDonald’s um company i mean that that's what is McDonald’s ray Kroc built a real estate company and that's that's what it is and that's they'll prove that to you when you get if you get your MBA at asu which i recommend to anybody they'll prove to you what they would do is they would go buy the land and it doesn't matter if it's expensive or not because all the metrics will work so they go into a small town in the current corner of 1st street and Maine is a nice acre there they'll buy the acre say that costs 500 000 they'll build their box on top of it that's another 500 000 and then they find uh bend who wants to be a franchisee so they sell you that um franchise for one million dollars so now they're free and clear then they sign you to an indefinite lease where every month you pay them 12 of every dollar that you collect and every uh month on the first uh McDonald’s wakes up and collects about 38 000 rent checks and the rest is just history so what rick Kirshner does and that guy is a genius from word g is um he'll go by he um it's obviously a lot easier to buy than existing than to build you don't need architects and all this planning and all this crazy stuff and what he'll do is um he'll go buy like a um he'd be driving around here where you're at over there on 19th avenue and he'd find uh some old 2000 square foot building maybe it was a state farm insurance agent for 50 years maybe it was even a house on a four-lane road but he'll buy that building and then he'll um refurbish it and um so let's say he buys the uh the landed building for you know 350 000 let's say 400 000 and then he'll dump you know a couple hundred thousand into making it a six operatory deal and then when he's done say he's got 600 grand into it he'll sell it to you for 600 grand and then but then you're a comfort dental and you gotta you gotta follow their franchise model of what they do and how they market and who they advertise and uh it's just an incredibly successful deal he doesn't have to manage anybody because he's not dealing with any employees every dentist he deals with is an owner and Natalia how much money he has i only have about three or four friends that when they want to have lunch with me they send their jet to pick me up and uh one was on you know he he'll send his jet uh to pick me up and fly me back to Denver uh my gosh the founder of dead map bob bibson would do that hell Jim Glidewell has three jets three not one not two but three and um so the comfort dental is just a um it's just a completely different league of its own uh so um and for a lot of dentists that are thinking about taking on an associate that's another business model you can say well instead of taking on another associate um i think i saw a nice piece of real estate and i'm gonna go buy that and i'm gonna turn that into a dental office um i did that and i sacrificed at the time my worst assistant my worst hygienist and my worst front desk put them over there um hired a young kid paid them 25 percent of what the office collected and after two years had enough data that i could go down to uh the time was called the arizona bank went and showed it to Darlene winger said is uh she qualified for an sba loan and she said hell yeah so then she did all the paperwork went back there and said hey you sign here it's your office i mean it was just everybody was a winner and um everyone was a winner um but i and i still think um my gosh what a great diversification when you're in real estate the number one risk in real estate is that you don't have a tenant and if you flew across phoenix right now at the speed of light you would think the number one franchise was space available because amazon is killing retail if there doesn't need to be a human involved like when you buy you know a computer or a laptop or a pair of shoes um you know it's all moving online because it just it has a longer selection uh the selection is endless and um go ahead all right go ahead i actually wanted to ask you a question about that you mentioned real estate do you think it's realistic for a guy like me coming out of school to want to be an own doc to be an own dog exactly to own my own real estate well i'm well i um i would say that you're supposed to buy low and sell high and what all social animals do is they get caught up in the excitement of the high and then they buy high then it crashes and they get out low or broke or whatever and um this panda you know like right now the stock market is um you know humans um humans are interesting animals so we all know we're aware of our existence right okay well what's the opposite of that what's it what's it like for a turtle well they're just aware of the objective reality of the present i mean they're just they just have objective awareness of their presence they only live in the presence they don't know there's a past they don't know there's a tomorrow they just live in the presence but humans develop this thing where they can detach from the presence and they can start thinking and that leads to daydreams and beliefs and they create religions and governments and all these things that they believe in in fact do you know the only do you know the only thing that everyone on earth believes in i mean like you take religion well there's 3 000 religions practice today and everybody who's religious like my oldest sister sister's a nun um she doesn't believe in the other 3 000 religions so she's an atheist to 3 000 religions except one and uh so an atheist is basically a religious person uh minus one and um but you know they so they're governments like i really like the government of Singapore i think it's a better class act than what i grew up in i mean cleaner streets japan talk about the cleanest nicest logical environment i've ever been to in my life i mean you go to japan and everyone comes home realizing they're a hillbilly you know so you know so they're all different but can you name the only thing that the only belief that's completely in your imagination that is not there's no objective factual observation in the present i can't measure anything in the present about so many things but you know what it is after life or well um the only thing well an atheist doesn't believe in it like when christopher Hitchens died he didn't believe in afterlife so not everyone believes that but the only thing they all believe in is money oh right are you right you're right they believe that that dollar is a store of value and it'll hold its value and i mean they can believe or not believe and democracy to communism religion whatever they believe they all believe in the dollar i mean they all believe that even when they found um these terrorists that um are against the united states they still find sacks of u.s dollars so they hated America hated their hated everything about America except for the us dollar well like i kind of like you ben i like i like that Benjamin you make i like the green on it so other than money i think money is the only thing everybody believes in but um so right now the stock market um has lost all legs of anything still standing in reality i can't trace anything they're saying as long as you have one foot on the ground i don't care if you're a ballerina and you're just standing on your big toe i can still take all your all your words and trace it back to some math of some observations you see you know i always tell my boys it's only right um you know a point is an idea it takes two points for a line three points for a shape everything you can see has a shape and if it has a shape geometry says there's a right angle in there somewhere and so it's not right if i can't trace it back to a right angle so they're believing all this stuff and it's a bubble and bubbles always um get bigger than anybody thought bubbles expand longer than anybody ever thoughts because humans are capable of the just mass delusion but at the end of the day objective reality will say that it's a weighing machine it's a weighing machine of profits and you just had 40 million Americans lose their job and the international economy looks like [ __ ] for years to come and you're getting new highs every day um no that that's actually crazy so i wouldn't be in the stock market i mean i wouldn't be buying new stocks at these prices um and um and as far as what's gonna happen to the economy well after you know i graduated high school in 80 that was the worst um 87 was black Monday that was like a hundred days after i opened uh the y2k bubble popped in 2000 because everybody spent all their money getting ready for y2k so after y2k there were no cells for 90 days at cisco Microsoft intel and all that and so it just crashed and then Lehman’s day was bad but i think this is the mother of all the bad ones i've ever seen because you throw in a pandemic which is really a world war except we're fighting a virus so the um the thing that's that um the Buffett index you know when i was at Creighton in 1980 taking business um that's where warren Buffett lived and he knew the head guy of business at Creighton and he came over and talked to her class and um i love the Buffett index where you take the market cap of all the stocks in the country and um as a percent of the GDP and all the stocks publicly traded on the Wilshire 5000 um should be about um the GDP and um when that starts going below the line to where all the stocks are about 70 of the GDP you know the market's gonna tear out and do a bull run um this is the highest anybody on earth has ever seen including warren Buffett himself it's at 171 percent and when he when he um diversified by investing six billion dollars in japan do you know what that means when you're the oracle of Omaha and you say for the first time in my life i'm gonna move some cash over to japan i mean he's basically he's sold out of the airline socks he's basically and he's not giving interviews he's not talking you know this the guy that loves the camera loves to talk loves to help and share he no one can hear from and then you hear all these dumb pundits to i'm telling you how dumb he is and you know it's like oh i'm sorry do you have 85 billion dollars in yourself because i i'm not aware of your name tell me who you are mar billionaire and then and then the dumb argument i'm hearing now they're saying well if the united states uh their deficit which they've been adding a trillion a year it doesn't matter which party you're in one robbed the bank one drove the getaway car it's a binary star of filth and violence and um corruption um but um they'll sit there and say well you know America their debt is only one year's GDP in Japan’s is two years really well did you know the difference in japan yeah they own their debt just like we owned all of our debt in world war ii when the government needed money we bought all the bonds and who owns our bonds china is the biggest investor in our bonds uh wake up America so when uh so it answers your questions i think that um value shoppers are to have some great sales there's going to be some great sales so why would you want to buy a car a building or a dental office um if it's July 1st when you know July 4th is the 4th of July clearance sell and um i think they're and the money's stacking up on the sidelines i mean i've seen it and by the way when um i opened up my office uh i got out of school may 11 open up September 11 black Monday was like October and the one thing i noticed i was such a young dumb kid i couldn't figure out is all these um real estate like the pad in my parking lot where my dental offices today that was six hundred thousand dollars and they had four pads and they'd already sold the other one the pizza hut chase bank and Walgreens you know and he marked it down to like 550 and i thought 550. i mean the economy i mean we just crash so i set him a uh a bid for 185 and he and he got mad and when he got mad i thought well it's just a bit it's an asking point no one gets mad at wall street when they see a deal come a buy order for your stock for less money and i thought matt he's emotional and so i just kept sending him a you know every year i would send him the same number and i opened up an 87 and i built that building i mean that was open on April fool's day 94 and i don't remember how many years from 87 to 94 but i think it was about five so probably been about 92. he said if i i get a call out of nowhere if i came by your office right now could you write me a check for 185. i said yes and i picked up four of them but here's where i was dumb so you know i'm the first to admit humble Howie it was a for when someone tells you that i'm crazy it's like Howard told me he was crazy so you know this this is not news from you um the other three i bought my formula and my stupid head was soon as they got to the double price i'd give it to him so this other one i bought for 75 he called me up and it was i said he'd give me 154 so i thought oh my god i double my money he hung on to it for three more years and sold it to dairy queen for 600. so i realized that the decision to buy is equally as important as a decision to sell but the one that just it hurt is i um down in the foothills um about 19th avenue and chandler there was eight acres there and it was you know there's no water electrical it's just raw land and raw land you don't make any money off it's like an alligator it just takes an interest payment bite out of your ass every month as opposed to buying a business that has cash flow um and this guy got rid of it and um it was eight acres and he and uh he sold to me for 150 and it was just it wasn't even uh six months later and this guy i don't remember his name john early from California i'm calling me up and said you bought that for 150 i'll give you 300 for it i thought holy moly i just doubled my money he hung on to it for five years until phoenix put the three and a half foot water pipe to an area and drew an electrical line and it was ready to be developed and he sold that for eight and a half million dollars cash oh my god that's insane and so now when i hear old people say that they your logic on the decision to purchase an asset probably is almost less important than decision of when to sell your asset and that's why guys like warren Buffett aren't traders they'll buy an asset like Coca-Cola and they'll write it out forever this is a good company it's a good metrics they don't have to worry about selling unless something crazy change so and answer your question that was a very long-winded said this is the time i would sell my car and take the bus this is the time i would i would cash is king cash is king and there is going to be a big cell coming sooner rather than later but it'll definitely show up there's going to be a cell and i just don't think this is the time that you're not going to see warren Buffett on CNBC or MSNBC you're not going the cash is king and everybody that dresses right and lives below their means is just they're just um like i had a mansion i mean i had a big mansion uh i'm out of that i mean as i'm looking at my house i'm so i'm living in my mansion alone and i have four one ton air conditioners and my water bill's 600 a month and my yard man charges me 500 a month and i'm like i've never even walked into four of the bedrooms in the last year this is insane and of course you keep it there because it's always fun when your boys all have their original bedroom because you know it's it was a it was a grandchild trap you know they're going to come back and bring their grandkids so i just kept that thing as a purely as a as an um an evil grandchild trap i knew i could trap and snare uh some of my six grandkids but no i want the cash and uh so no i think it's a time to um build up your cash flow and sell off assets you don't need and get a big sack of cash and let me tell you something about when you have the berlin wall fall the araba uprising the break out of world war one or world war ii or any of these economic collapses no one ever predicts them uh of the timing of them but you know where it's headed and we're in a these are the most crazy times i've ever seen politically economically racial um it's now gone from globalism which delivered us so much to now anti-global these are strange times so what i would do is i tell people that you know um it's a great thing being a dentist because let's say the worst case scenario happened and the economy just completely tanked well if you're that old man on the ranch that can ride up your horse and pull out that toothache yeah you're still gonna get make some chickens and pigs some somebody out there is gonna give you something to fix them so having the ability to work with your hands that to give someone else something that they're willing to trade and barter chickens and pigs and gold coins for is great now i'm not uh this guy is falling pessimist i'm just a realist i mean um it's just it's just gonna be a lot worse a couple years from now than it was a couple years ago that's just the direction everything's going um any final words for uh any um well no let's go back to uh you said comfort dental uh which is not a dso um but um any other uh you said mb2 um any um is that is that the main dsos those are the main ones in in phoenix thank you so much for having me Howard you've been there you've been an inspiration since day one of dental school and i appreciate everything you've done for our community and thank you for all you do yeah i mean if any of our homies here in arizona from at still if they want to contact ben how do they how do they contact big ben so anybody that's about to graduate dental school or that's looking at finding jobs they can email me my email is Dr ben varans gmail.com so d-r-b-e-n-d-a-r-a-n-e-s gmail.com and i'm happy to help them and kind of identify red flags and not make the same mistakes i did and you know drop that email when we post this on YouTube drop that in the comments that's uh okay that's a huge command and my email is Howard dentaltown.com and i swear to god that's the only one i have except for my Gmail account which i had to add for YouTube but it was Howard Farran gmail.com but i don't even i've never checked it ever but ben thank you so much for coming on the show you're just an amazing guy and on behalf of America um thank you for joining our team i always thought every immigrant should be met at the border with a dozen roses and a cake saying gosh thanks for joining our team i mean well that's the greatest compliment in the world and that's what built America i can't believe that America built on 500 years of immigration closed down Ellis island i and i hope uh whoever wins the election uh opens back up Ellis island but i'm sure the Americans would rather just shoot themselves in the foot and blame all their problems on everybody but themselves ben thank you so much for coming on the show i'll see you soon
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