Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
How to perform dentistry faster, easier, higher in quality and lower in cost. Subscribe to the podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dentistry-uncensored-with-howard-farran/id916907356
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1476 Dr. Bahar Esmaili on TMD and Total Body Health : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

1476 Dr. Bahar Esmaili on TMD and Total Body Health : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

10/7/2020 3:00:00 AM   |   Comments: 0   |   Views: 148
Dr. Bahar Esmaili DDS is the owner & dentist at PeakView Dentistry. She focuses on the connection between overall health and oral health. She is passionate about educating her patients about all areas of health. A healthy mouth can only exist in a healthy body. Dr. Esmaili's other passion is fitness. She is a certified trainer, specializing in corrective exercise. She has seen a great deal of connection between overall gait, head & neck posture, alignment of jaw joint, and tension in facial muscles and headaches, all of which affect the health & structure of teeth and supporting bone & gum. This has led her to focus her practice on comprehensive and detailed diagnosis of jaw joint issues.


VIDEO - DUwHF #1476 - Bahar Esmaili


AUDIO - DUwHF #1476 - Bahar Esmaili


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**Please excuse any typos as this was digitally transcribed

It is just a huge honor for me today to be podcast interviewing Dr Bahar Esmaili DDS she's the owner and dentist at peak view dentistry in boulder Colorado where i got to see the rolling stones in 1980 when mick Jagger when Keith Richards fell off the stage and heart opened for that was so fun she focuses on the connection between overall health and oral health she's passionate about educating your patients about all areas of health a healthy mouth can only exist in a healthy body nutrition stress management breathing correctly posture improvement and better quality of sleep can all affect the health and function of jaw joint and dentition her other passion is fitness she's a certified trainer specializing in corrective exercise i have she has seen a great deal of connection between overall gait head neck posture alignment of joint of jaw joint and tension and facial muscles and headaches all of which affect the health and structure of teeth and supporting bone and gum this has led her to focus her practice on comprehensive and detailed diagnosis of jaw joint issues and she has a huge following on facebook.com forward slash peak of you dentistry and she's peak view dentistry on Instagram um bahar you knew you were going to be a dentist when you were born with a last name is smiley uh did your dad didn't well believe it or not i did not know that when is you find out that your last name meant a smiley in uh in boulder Colorado that's true that's true it's just divine interventions i have to say and somehow you end and land where you meant to be and you couldn't be happier so so on the university here i i hate to have this be the first question it's so uh it's so bad but you're from Colorado and in the next election Arizona is voting on whether or not we should have legalized recreational marijuana just like Colorado and i says it was it Oregon Oregon and Colorado were first no it was uh Seattle i think oh it was watching Washington Washington okay so um i i like to talk to other health care providers doctors i mean everybody knows the pros and cons of uh drinking alcohol smoking pot whatever but the question because um is it treated better illegal where if you're doing it they kidnap you arrest you and put you in a cage or or not and so what would it what would you tell all the Arizona dentists 6 000 Arizona dentists who are going to be going to the polls voting on whether or not we should be just like Colorado and to legalize it you know it's just that it's going to in my opinion it doesn't matter if it's legal or not people are going to smoke it on their own volition the only difference is now you're going to really ask about them on their history so makes those cases when you want to sedate them the interactions with mats easier and also you get to know other signs and conditions that they're masking so they're more open to talk about it i have people freely telling me if they are using it recreationally you're using it for meds for pain management versus it was a taboo that you wouldn't talk and you want to ask although you know but legalizing and i don't think that i want to really go forth and say whether or not it's therapeutically a benefit whether we should be going for it or not I’m not a medical doctor won't speak on that but definitely I’m on the side of cbd which is not the same as marijuana i think that would that has greatly changed a lot of inflammatory conditions in people but for marijuana if i were to say to those dentists whether they should vote on it or against it i mean the only thing is when something is legalized it's easier to track it that's all I’ve got to say it's not going to change the consumption rate of it from for that perspective it's just going to make it a lot more manageable in terms of regulation yeah um well said humans are humans or humans and i don't think there's ever been in the history of the world where just because something's illegal the humans stopped doing it just meant that it drove it underground and then you could it makes it harder to communicate deal with all that kind of stuff like that uh my gosh i was just surprised that nobody that a dentist from Denver um you know when you um survey people about dentistry um the two big factors are cost and fear they're afraid of the bill and they're afraid of the fill so i thought when you guys legalized it up there i thought within a week somebody's saying hey come to my dental office and we'll give you a uh a brownie to eat and uh you it'll get rid of all your fear and anxiety uh but I’m not going to deny that it hasn't crossed my mind I’m just totally kidding but i think you're right there's a fact of the matter is people use it they tell you about it young ones using it just made the conversation a lot more smooth as far as what kind of recreations are you using i need to know because I’m about to add to three more to it yeah and i don't want to embarrass any uh old retired dentists out there but when we were in umkc there was a dentist in Kansas city that me and Randy Kerwin went and visited and he went by the name dr ace that wasn't even his name it was just a cool marketing name he was dr ace but when you walked in his office he had a full wet bar and he thought that was the driver because people are so nervous and scared to go to the dentist and so when you walk into his deal you can make yourself a drink now i don't know what the legalities of that would be today i wouldn't even want to try to have a full wet bar in my waiting room but it shows that anxiety is uh very high i would i wanted to get you on the show um you're doing so many things um but i always want to know when people um start getting interested in tmj or or tmd or what whatever um where does that come from i mean did you used to grind in brooks or did you have a kid that was a grinder where does the interest come from you know the thing is though the fact is tmj is such a misnomer it's as ludacris is saying elbow and people use it all the time and the fact is temper mandible disorder it is a syndrome and what really intrigued me about finding more about it learning more about it taking million hours to seize about the tmj is it is probably one of the most important joints in your body and why people don't know it because of the level of adaptation that joint goes through silently to a point that we almost see the footprints of this disease everywhere else in the body in the mouth in the head and neck yet we don't know that the problem is right here because we don't see it so it's overused join you have to even if you're paralyzed you gotta eat you gotta talk so every time you're doing those actions you're putting this joint through use and being a personal trainer i know all about muscles i know about synovial joints so every synovial joint including the tmj has liquid inside of it to separate the bones and make them movable this is a different joint than all others because the end range of motion for this join is not where the muscles are fatigued it's where the teeth come together and we know if the teeth are not lined up correctly which now that has a whole school of thought of why that's going to affect both sides and the joint is not one it's two and it's articular space between the jaw and skull and two sides and the third leg is the mouth that's what makes it super complicated and that kind of leads to scheme of problems that now we're learning and I’m glad to report we have found the actual cause of tmd disorders and airways and how they're connected and we're digging into it to see what else could be affected i mean why are these people and more so now we're seeing young people affected by this because airway is a complete connection to tmj and the function so if you can breathe correctly guess what your lower jaw needs to be positioned in your joint and if your airway is a problem kids are starting at really young age and I’m saying juveniles 12 year olds are having problems and it's a nuisance new um tsunami of diseases of this generation as i like to say it that we're seeing that's why i stopped practicing clinical dentistry and started really just focusing on what's really connecting dentistry mouth to the rest of the body I’m actually going to write a book about this and believe it or not the title of the book is the tooth be told your mouth will tell you the story this is just amazing nice um we'll cut to the very end of the book and just tell me the answer am i supposed to buy the brownies or the uh the brownies can help the price yes hey i would um um i i wanted to ask this um because i i thought it was a big takeaway when i got my mba at asu i graduated in dental school in 87 got my mba in 98. they kept showing all these case studies where um the engineers you know they're all engineers but it was someone over in the accounting department that actually saw something that didn't make sense and then when she brought it to the engineers they realized wow you're onto something but it's usually another department that sees something and um it was the anthropologist and not the dentist it wasn't the dentist it was the anthropologist that says um we don't see all these male occlusions if we just go back 500 years to 1.5 million years so my question is isn't that a big clue that something's massively changed Howard and i cannot agree with you more that is a 150 agree with you the fact is that the disease we don't see the disease we see the effect of the disease on the body we see dysfunction that the body goes through in the absence of normal function now we all are born complete and perfect now genetic and evolutions one can argue is a part of it but to me that's just the loaded gun and the lifestyle and environment is the trigger so kids that are growing for example young the babies that are born if they're not breastfeeding they're using bottles pacifiers and when they go through toddler ages instead of eating hard food the way we our bodies were designed to chew and develop they are having soft wood that melts in their mouth tongue that is not trained to go to the palate where it was supposed to go nasal pathways that are not being formed because tongue is not positioned at the roof of the mouth at the young age environmental allergens that we are constantly exposed to pets um humidifiers like lack of real environments that our kids are should be growing for their system to be strong instead you're raising environments that are full of allergens but this boosted immune system is ready to attack something so they capture everything in the environment become allergic to it so their nasal pathway from their soft tissues occluded they're mostly a mouth breathing instead of nasal breathing and then when their mouth breathing tongue doesn't function the way it was supposed to so the growth is halted at a young age tongue tightness is more common we could attribute that kid once do a study and say that's attributed to the nutrition during gestation development why the tongue why this many tongue tightness that we did not have before why is it that all these kids have speech problems and tongue isn't functioning so this kid grows up with a tiny job with no nasal pathway for breathing in a dysfunctional system that's using mouth for eating and breathing so as you're growing now they need to find out the position for the head that's most optimal for them to continue to breathe so their posture is also affected because of that their sleep patterns are affected because of that because tongue is not sealed at the roof of the mouth nose is not doing what it was supposed to do so their sleep patterns is completely disrupted which the whole set of issues that these kids are going through basically not developing and their bodies are being affected now we have seen a lot of adhd syndrome conditions um cognitive disorders is a kid's ability to learn is being affected their crowded crowded teeth and crooked teeth which to me is the least of the concern we can always give them straight teeth I’d love to have white straight teeth but we're not we're missing the big picture American kids and western diet is promoting more of a or what is causing smaller jaws not bigger our kids don't have bigger teeth of smaller jaws and that small jaws leading to air reconstructions is leading to posture issues is leading to physiological changes in their ph because mouth is the wrong avenue of breathing and when your tongue is constantly out in your airway and in the way of doing the functions then your brain has to get it out of the way and it's conducive to clenching and grinding and tmj issues like i said it's just a snowball effect which could be plugged and treated if we were to just get these kids into the right Karen and checking for what needs to happen and getting them the right food giving them real bacteria real viruses to be exposed to so that they actually will have bodies that are strong and defend themselves versus raising them in environments that are lowing back in in real environments that they need to develop immunity gaze and vaccinating them I’m not anti-vaxxing people but this is the reality are children not getting a chance to grow and then they grow up and becoming this dysfunctional uh young adults 18 year olds in my practice howard I’m practicing in boulder Colorado right across the street from the university of Colorado hopefully at the end of this i will get a chance to go around and show you the views of our our practice it's beautiful but to the point of that I’m getting a lot of this young people in my practice and as you mentioned that anthropologists who kind of put the dots together and said that doesn't make sense almost on a weekly daily basis I’m getting someone in that eight range i call it a freshman syndrome coming in they have joy shoes they have headaches they have clicking locked jaws shoulder issues their teeth are pristine we don't have cavities anymore in these children they have straight teeth they have all had ortho but why are they not why are they on anti-anxiety meds on adhd medications they already are falling apart 200 year olds are on cpap and i had to learn why because i can't just stick a night guard in their mouth and call it good by the way knight guard will make things worse with apnea and obstructed apnea so three years ago that journey began when i started practicing boulder Colorado and it led me to this point where i have practically learned every course that was offered every ce that had the word tmg and airway and i learned from the best of the best and this is what I’m hoping that i can get a message out to everyone is airway is not a small subject snoring is not a static issue and tmd is a real disorder connected and connected to all of this and um every time that something breaks in the mouth it's not because there was a soft food that happened this is connected to a bigger problem it's almost like looking at someone's shoe wardrobe and seeing that all their shoes are worn the same way this is what i started noticing all these kids shoes worn the same way it's not the quality of the shoe the shoe factory it's the way they walk and until we focus our attention towards preventing them and addressing that we're constantly into the fix-it mode and breaking they break and we fix them they break them we fix them and we fix them only at the at the tune of their symptoms they come with symptoms we throw at them the problem the the solution to get them out of pain to fix that tooth put a dentistry in there that doesn't break and send them off to the universe it's almost like a diabetes if you have diabetes and we cut a finger because it was infected we didn't cure diabetes we just cut that finger and this disease is more multifactor you're more global more systemic than we knew and airway is a is a generational disease that i could anticipate especially now with the covet 19 and mask and people are wearing their more mouth breathing than ever and I’m seeing more decay problems from there and declining health coming from that i think um this is more than ever if i want to promote and advocate nasal breathing this would be the time because our nose is the most natural pathway of air through our body that filters bacteria sterilizes it takes the right amount of air exchange between our body and the and the and air so if you're not establishing nasal pathway early enough by the time they get to be 50 and 60 years old we're completely in a state of dysfunction from this one tiny problem the nasal mouth breathing or lack of nasal breathing for that matter so I’m hoping that i didn't answer a small question in a in a complicated way but it's a very encompassing subject i could listen to you for 40 days and 40 nights it reminds me it reminds me when i went to scotland um michael gao um profoundly impacted me because he says well you know when someone has anxiety and you just put them to sleep you knock them out you go to their dentist and wake up but you didn't treat their anxiety and he wanted to treat the anxiety so he went into dental hypnosis and he says it might take you know some three or four appointments beforehand but i treat the the the anxiety the hypno with the hypnosis and then their dental patients and i i um we we both know I’m going to tell you this is reality when someone has any of those issues you talk about in the united states of america 150 000 general dentists 32 hours a week or more 30 000 specialists 32 hours a week or more they say oh okay um have them come in here and do an fa see if their interns will cover a night guard if it's yes then the assistant will come in take two algebras make a night guard and then uh and then a week later they come back in the assistant tries on has a bite down twice the dentist comes in checks the little bite marks and they're done that's how tmj is done four out of five places so so so but but here now it gets worse she just got out of school she's 25. she only became a dentist because her mom is that's how her mom does it and her mom doesn't even know a word you just said how would you coach a 25 year old who just listened to what you said and she's working with her mom how do you get from I’m 25 my mom's over here bahar's over here and i mean so what would you advise me nobody said that howard because um 90 of my patients are in that age group and i have the complete attention and here's where i approach it if i want to see if the youngsters need to be able to see a global problem rather than having a tunnel vision of I’m just a dentist i'd like to think think of teeth as the tip of the iceberg here's what the dentists need to do especially right out of school matter of fact my my goal is to create a course for hygienists and young dentists to get them right out of school before they're getting into the nuke of what the instruments will pay for fix the problem as they're thrown at you step back see the body forget about the teeth matter of fact don't look at the teeth look at the person in front of you this person is attached to those teeth those teeth are like the children in the family in a family that's dysfunctional and i'd like to come up with an example this i came up with out of dental school you'd be amazed to hear it um think of this as a family that jaw joins being the father teeth out of kids and muscles are the mom so this whole system has to completely work together function how many functional families do we know these days none right here's why because the because if there's dysfunction between the jaws and the teeth the muscles going to have to compensate teeth get broken muscles get over activated and all we see is dentist we don't see the joints at best we touch them and say oh yeah there's a clicking in there well what are you going to do about it nothing just record it that's the norm when we look at the teeth oh my gosh there's worn dentitions get them a night guard stop right there i would say to the youngsters stop look at those signs and consider them as real evidence of a bigger potential problem and what I’m saying potential and I’m not saying every patient that grinds on have tmd disorder has apnea but literature is supporting that 90 plus of folks that have forward head physician they have tmd disorders it's an area of clicking jaw joint noises limitation in opening difficulty chewing and worn dentition majority of them have some one form or another of either upper airway resistance syndrome or they're suffering from full-blown apnea obstructive or centric or war the teeth are only telling the story pretty much like those rowdy children in a dysfunctional family that makes it known that this is not a functional system there's something wrong otherwise this kids would have been better the same thing here teeth only will pay the dues of this dysfunction and unfortunately dentists only see the teeth a really good mentor of mine recently uh dr hal stewart I’m actually planning to do any residence a full residency with his institution brilliant guy he came up with this example that just kind of stuck with me and i want to quote him on that think of the young person as a washing front loading washing machine that's functioning and then washing machine is turning the first time that they need a dentistry and he's putting it as simple as a sealant that goes in there and it's not in the right place that it's almost like a stone or a brick that we throw into that washing machine when it's working it starts rattling and it moves a little bit but it still continues to function just like that kid would so it doesn't break right away but it will rattle make a noise as it turns you throw another one in there it will rattle more and more of those screws will come undone and then the washing machine will continue functioning this continues on every crown every dentistry every night guard that was not legitimate and it was not the right treatment that gets put into their mouth everything we put in people's mouth is another stone we're throwing into that system that was already dysfunctional there comes a point where they're completely broken down and at that point we find them in a terminal dentition and all we can do is pull their teeth and give them dentures and and implants and all in force which is all great treatments I’m glad we have them but why wait until they're there I’m seeing more 50 some year old 60 some year olds than needing to be repaired at that stage with those extreme ends and they have lost what was already a god given it could have been saved just because we're not being smarter version of ourselves because we're single minded into thinking teeth are just teeth and it's my ear I’m just a dentist if i were to defy one one term is dentists are not just dentists we're physicians of the head and neck and dentistry is getting more broader bigger more encompassing of the rest of the body to make matters even worse we're seeing the connection of nasal breathing and jaw position and tmd with activation of the diaphragm i could probably talk about that one subject alone how diaphram activation in response to nasal breathing affects posture low back issues and just about everything because if a body is going through life with dysfunction and this 12-pound medicine ball or head is in a comfort uncomfortable and a dysfunctional place something will get some break here will go off somewhere we just don't know how quickly and where but i can tell you that washing machine example i just gave that will not continue to work until it completely it will continue to work until it stops and it comes unglued but not right away so you said that tmj is the father the teeth are the dysfunctional children and the mandible is the mom no the masseters and muscles temporalis masseters are the mother not just in the i think uh i have a different analogy to come up with it's like you said the system has to work there's a no there's a nervous system that controls all of this and you know your body knows one thing survive and propel through life no matter what it cost and we know that airway is on top of the list for the brain because how many seconds do we last without oxygen in reality so if anything is stopping that normal flow of air brain has to jump in brain has to do something activate an afferent is that different i can't have to remember that part afrin is when the body is sending a signal to the message anyways when the motor nerve is activated that motor learning universe system is activated to bypass that dysfunction that's when we're seeing teeth getting sore they're worn every time i look at someone's mouth and this is what i'd like to encourage every dentist every young dentist for that matter it's harder to get the more mature and seasoned dentists to see things from a new paradigm although I’m glad to see that a lot more that are becoming every conscious but younger ones they need to know you are in a crossroad where you have to come to a dead stop and decide which direction to go tmj is that you're not going straight up you have to stop at the stop sign either make a left or make a right or go straight you cannot bypass that or something will happen and it may not be a good thing because at a four-way stop you can't just go through it um young 11 years ago when i was a young dentist i did the same thing because that's why we call it practice right howard because we learn as we go i always wondered when am i going to start doing this I’m still practicing it it would tell patients you'd be patient while i practice for that reason because the science wasn't there when i came out of dental school everybody was another thing the unfortunate part is though our education system is always two decades lagging behind what's out there as far as the literature and the technologies and science and you know they come out of school with amount of student loans the last thing you want to do is go into another advanced course like what I’m doing with uh dr stewart or spear educations or poise learning something beyond the scope and by the time you're coming to your senses that i don't know what i and and maybe that curiosity vault never goes off by the time you get to sit in here and say i want to be a smarter version of myself you're 10 years into practice I’m sure i'd known then what i know now but a younger 25 year old dennis i would say don't practice until at least you know more and and learn how to look at the global issues of the head and neck and don't look at the teeth as just an entity because they're not they're attached to the rest of the body goes to my title i told you the teeth will tell you the story so um I’m sure you've uh been to many countries around the world um the united states is only four and a half percent of the eight billion people it's only 330 million people out of 8 000 million people americans take half the prescription pills so when you start saying something like this in america i don't i don't i mean i don't want to hear anything about the personal trainer stuff i just want to take a pill um how do you how do you change that mindset where i'll give you an example and some of it's crazy i I’m dealing with these two issues my well i don't want to get too personal or she'll figure out but my personal trainer or one of them um um she um pulled her shoulder during tennis and the doctor did a surgery on it and told her not to play tennis for uh she couldn't use it for i think eight weeks and after three weeks she started playing tennis again toward again and he did the surgery on her again and told her look you cannot play tennis for 12 weeks and if you do I’m not going to see you again as a patient because you need a psychiatrist she only made it three weeks went and played again i mean so that shows she was addicted to to working out and then i have another person that would have had a disease kept having eczema and psoriasis and wanted wanted pills doctors and one always wanted to take a pill and finally she went to a naturopath and a naturopath said quit using all these chemicals and soaps and conditioners and if you would just quit showering and shaving and doing all your ritual stuff your normal skin microbiome will grow back and you won't have all these examan psoriasis and you know what she's 33 years old and it finally worked everyone else wanted to give her a pill or another cream and one doctor said that's my ear another doctor i work with a lot of natural past doctors and they like hearing what i got to say for that matter howard I’m anti-medicine that's my title i do not like I’ve not written a prescription i mean five years i don't like medicine i think body is capable of healing itself if we give it a chance and to that effect i think the bigger problem is going back to that 25 year old doctor you mentioned we're thinking of us as holistic as if we have some voodoo science but really we're studying the body and the health and how to replicate health rather than disease like i said i look at the effect of the disease on the body and knowing how i can get it back to health that's the goal and i think that should be a big goal and number one goal on every doctor but the problem is our doctors are bound to what insurance will provide right it's a reality and what does insurance provide they fix sickness they don't prevent how much preventatives especially in dentistry preventative is not something that they're hard about and medicare for that matter is more about fixing and treating disease as it's worse so if you have a mind condition they will not advise any treatment and for that matter some some commercial policies not all they follow medicare policy and be scheduled for for that reason to give treatments because they think well that should be the norm i think that's the opposite and i don't believe we're giving any any care access to care better access to care by putting everyone on medicine because if that's the system to treat people as sickness what we've done is just give them a bunch of medicine instead of promoting promoting prevention we're all we're all waiting until people are sick and then we treat their symptoms and and then even worse piecemeal I’m going to treat only the symptoms of the head and neck so if you go into a chiropractor chiropractors say well let's just put your cervical necks in the right place and I’ve seen some horrendous practices from those that are not specialized in the cervical area the pneuco doctors atlas orthogonals have really specialized in treating c1 and c2 which in effect is completely correlated to the head poor position which goes along with everything i talked about so far so if the c1 and c2 are affected and you're only treating that the culprit's still there as i always say the floors are wet depending on what kind of a person you get to mop your floors they will mop your floors but nobody closed this nobody asked the question what's the culprit where is the leak if you're not closing the leak you go back to the chiropractor same thing with the dentist i broke one tooth you're going to break another we didn't fix anything we just silence the symptoms give them medicine and adhd meds car i mean when i heard the stats on this one it blew my mind and i have to say there's got to be some kind of uh stock market some pharma companies bigger powers and lobbyists behind this otherwise i mean there's a lot of industry behind medicine that's we all have to agree that it's it's business and food and it's sick that too that food is making us more sick than any other processed food remember i said allergens and food that we're putting in our children's body is what's causing them dysfunction what would have been ordinarily a normal route of breathing is is basically um halted as a result of the allergens and the food and practices and habits and things that we do we don't have those problems in other parts of the world gluten is one i mean if you go into europe even if you're gluten allergy and I’ve heard a lot of my friends you mentioned being all over the world in other parts of the world gluten allergy is not a problem because they don't process the wheat the way we do all this genetically modified food that now our body has to figure out how to process and when the immune system is geared up towards something that doesn't resemble food guess what it goes and shifts it towards non-food and attacks it this inflammatory processes in our bodies in head and neck and just all over are we're living in a constant state of inflammation sympathetic system and all these byproducts of fight or flight or freeze and and the cortisol is a big one and when bodies are basically living in a state of inflammatory conditions or amygdala's is responding to that amygdala is not responsible for communications it's where emotions get exchanged and when you're constantly in the in under attack from stress hormones and stress byproducts your you know the behavioral changes happens lack of empathy and angry people road rages and children adhd symptoms autism i had a conversation with a patient of mine who's a psychotherapist and she said there's a lot of under diagnosed autistic kids but we also know there's only five percent of children that are truly autistic at best now if i tell you the statistics of the number of kids the percentage of kids from from three to teenage up to 18 years that are on adhd and autistic medicine blow your mind close to 17 and growing five percent diagnosed seven percent seventeen percent on mats we're basically sedating our children in the state of inflammation and dysfunction and as they go through life they're breaking down and i mean i wouldn't remember when i was growing up i grew up in iran when i grew up young kids would go to chiropractors i mean that's where older people go if that you know that's not chiropractors and and a physical therapy and those are not things for younger people but almost every patient that i come in come to my practice i i screen them i ask proactively ask them those questions not out of ten say yes i constantly chiropractor i constantly see someone for pain management and yes i am taking adhd meds and that's mind-boggling that's pretty much why i concentrated on the things that i do i know it's a grass root movement for me to go against a system that otherwise is meant to treat disease but i know there are really smart doctors out there that's just not me not only me but there's a lot of them out there that are researching and asking the right questions instead of giving people just beautiful teeth and smart white straight teeth which by the way won't last it will relapse if you're having problems with airway those orthodontic cases relapse within a year and a half if not sooner I’ve seen many of them these children are having ton of airway issues and those retainers are hanging on to their life because wherever the braces are the clear brackets going the tongue and the lip is there and they're not living correctly they're not functioning correctly so things go back to a square one and they have to go through the third round of ortho which is nothing but damage orthodontics are very invasive treatments under teeth shortens the root damages the enamel plaque decay microflora changes let me name it so um it's a very encompassing subject sometimes i catch myself going down that train with sometimes with patients guilty as charged but as you can tell it's uh it's not something that you could touch up on and and leave it because every can of worm you open regarding the body you you find the answer that this is not an isolated problem and you cannot have a healthy body when you have all this disease concentrated in one area i mean every person's head and neck muscles that are tense facial muscles that are tense jaw joints that are making noise teeth that are worn beyond their natural process of worn dentition at young age those are not normal those are dysfunctions those are diseases pathologies that we're silently basically treating with a bunch of porcelain i hate to say it well you know it's funny you um you definitely respect the uh the three rule of threes uh that really explains the nature of our body we can only go three minutes without oxygen three days without water and three weeks without food and um the the auction is everything but i have to tell you I’m so old I’m I’m 58 when i got out of dental school in 87 they never mentioned sleep one time not you're my age and I’m not old you're not old by the way but but i mean it wasn't even a thing um so my my question wouldn't be for you um how did i get out of dental school with they never even mentioned sleep and now you can't um go to the airport without seeing a book on it what would uh what set this in motion you know the thing is the more i look at it i think the diseases that we used to treat back in when you came out of dental school or maybe 1960s 1970s things were different the diseases that are progressing now are a lot more advanced in airway like i said the cultural habits and things have changed tremendously what happened 1970s 1960s moms to start going to work the babies did not have so much time with the mom processed foods was introduced to the market uh packaged food and and the food industry picked up which you touched upon so our children and youngsters and even kids people my age again i did not grow up in us but people that did like that are my age these generations they did not have real food exposed to them they did not have an environment that was giving their body a chance to grow their actual weight defend itself build an immunity so that all changed and it takes at least two or three decades for those effects to surface when you came out of dental school you had amalgams certain place and in correct amalgams or decay was an issue until fluoride came in now we got that under control periodontal disease and we came up with the solutions the disease are not the same anymore we are training our doctors to treat diseases the way they did 40 years ago while our diseases of this generation are 20 years ahead and the doctors have 20 years of catching up to do now how many of them would they spend thousands of dollars in hours of ce out of practice while they have half a million dollar in loan to sit in a whole another course just to learn a holistic way and i hate to say this is holistic howard because when i hear the word holistic to me that means let's hold hand and sing kumbaya and energy is going to fix it there might be some truth to that I’m from boulder Colorado so i hear a lot of oil pulling can fix periodontal disease maybe however i think if we can if we can get the doctors to start on early and be more updated and start training our doctors early on towards the last year of dental school and putting them in the same classes let's say medical doctors that are in the verge of going into residencies before they do and letting these doctors see how much from the same angle looking at the body don't think that your area of practice is only about no that's what you specialize but understand how it's related to the rest of the body that should not be a privilege it should be a norm for patients that should be a norm for patients to go to a doctor and ask him about other conditions so your symptoms are symptoms great let's just find out what else could it be look beyond know what's in your box but look outside of that box because what you think is a simple problem i'll give you an example i had a young 28 year old girl that moved to Colorado she had sleepy shoes that she did not know about headaches and she was seeing a chiropractor maybe a couple of times a year she moved to Colorado until i did an exam on her and i said i think you have some job noises that I’m hearing and tension in your jaws and worn front teeth and i said there may be a component into your airway so next time she comes back she said i might have that problem but now I’m having a lot more neck issues since i moved to Colorado so she's a certain scene chiropractor physical therapist and she would see me from time to time and i was at the time trying to relax her job because she intense amount of tensions in her head so as I’m working on relaxing her joint in most natural position the chiropractor she's seeing they feel like they know everything like we all think we know everything and goes in there and releases the one muscle the lateral pterygoid that basically is holding her jaw in a semi-quote or a status quo position and completely release that muscle now this patient ended up with an open bite she has more pain that she started with she's completely dysfunctional it's almost like we are all of us doctors are in a 10 lane highway think of it this way we're driving with no rare area mirrors with no side mirrors we're running into each other's lane and patients are paying the dues for that they're getting over treated under treated they're living with symptoms we just don't have diagnosis i mean anyone can treat with i can i can teach anyone to treat anyone you can teach anyone to prep a crown to put a night guard clearly as you mentioned in someone's mouth it takes a doctor to diagnose and find out and if you're not taking that seriously those titles after your name seriously and you're not putting your best foot forward that's where the disconnect is and sometimes i think I’m the devil's advocate when i speak like that but we're just focusing on what we know and we just toss the patients to the next provider when we're thinking you know this is outside of my scope i think we should just have a conglomerate place where ents dentists orthodontists chiropractors physical therapists all can look at the patient point their opinion and have a triage we should not be separately diagnosing them because what might what you might think it's a tmj pop it could be an ankle issue I’ve actually had patients go see their chiropractor or um physical therapy some put that or throttling in their foot and the foot was out of balance and then it transferred all the imbalance through to the joint and the jaw stopped popping it's as complicated as human kinetic chain can get and i guess I’m lucky enough to be working on the most complex part of it and i cannot get enough i tell you how I’ve not stopped learning since i started learning and i don't know where my journey will end but I’m appreciating the time that i get to come in and shed light at least on a you know an opportunity like this getting in front of some younger dentists and letting them know what's out there what they don't know and what would benefit them 40 or 30 years from now knowing what i know in dentistry in relation to the rest of the body man you said so much but it um so when we talk about the um the dental uh the three rules of uh the dental rule of threes uh says your patients only live three minutes without auction so you're saying learn tmd occlusion sleep apnea storing and appliance therapy and when you talk about three days without water um you should be drinking water we're the only animal on on earth we're the only animal plant eukaryote prokaryote fungi or archaic that drinks anything other than water so three days that water just be like all the other animal kingdom on drink water but when you say um three weeks without food um eighty percent of everything eaten on earth is made from ten companies nestle pepsico coca-cola unilever danone general mills kellogg's mars associated british foods and mondelez i mean nestle is a start out in chocolate pepsico coca-cola start out with sugar water unilever's a damn car company um i mean my god i mean um how do these kids have a chance when they do that when you go to the store and and nine out of ten things they're going to eat is going to be out of a package from those ten companies how do you fight that absolutely i mean i look at this and I’m thinking we did not have these problems 40 years ago why all of a sudden i mean to say that our nervous system or their hormone system their chemicals are out of balance would stop so you know what you want to know my rule of thumb it's really a rule of thumb actually rule a finger get a food put your finger at the beginning of the ingredient list what's not covered by your finger is not food so if the list of ingredients is beyond what just covered in your finger what you're about to put in your body is furniture it's not food it's not recognized as one if something can last for days and month over shelf without expiration he gotta ask how is my body going to take that extrapolate the nutrition out of it put it where it needs to go and replenish itself the answer is again your liver is going to be overworked our bodies are good immune system that is supposed to be surveill doing a surveillance on everything including cancer cell cells that are not normal and they're going to try to come up with the way to destroy the rest of our body it's basically what it is our immune system is bogged down by recognizing all this stuff that we're putting into it in the name of food and yes we are you know what we are 80 water you mentioned it and water is not combined with anything else and a water ph is a whole another subject just the way it is treated and our our ph is changing that just changes the physiology one of the biggest biggest problems with airway issues again it keeps going going back to airway just trumps all because airway when you're mouth breathing and taking all this air through your mouth you're dumping a lot of this co2 the body does the brain doesn't recognize the o2 level the brain goes by the co2 level co2 is what sets the ph in blood when you're dumping all this co2 out of the body the ph is going to be lowered and blood-brain barrier for to activate diaphragm in in oxygen desaturation doesn't go by how much oxygen you have on your hemoglobin it's going to go by the co2 because at the tissue level it's a co2 that sets the ph for oxygen to be released from hemoglobin because it's not soluble in blood and if you're dumping too much co2 the blood cannot use that oxygen where it's most needed and diaphragm activation is going to be affected because the brain has to tell diaphragm especially in deep state of sleep to activate the diaphragm to breathing when that ph is not there the physiology is not helping you breathe that's why folks at youngs is 20 have to be on cpap machines and like i said everything goes together from your from your ph to to water the amount of water you're consuming to the food you're consuming to how much chemicals your body has to go through processing the liver kidneys i mean we're basically breaking down way faster and in the not so natural way that our bodies were designed to we're making it to be older we're keeping folks to live young older but they're not having quality of life they're needing to pop 20 different pills for every condition versus we could just focus on prevention and fix the problem when they're younger and I’m saying young even my age we're not we're not looking at chronological age the way it should be looked at i think we're breaking down way faster because of our lifestyles because of our environment the food um just about all of it and and to hear a dentist say that right i mean the last thing i talk to my patients about believe it or not is their teeth it only gets me enough to the door to talk to them about that they've worn their teeth and that after that I’m not talking about their teeth so you know i i i said you want to um take that course um dental town uh has put up 400 uh hour-long courses they've been viewed over a million times wow and we started that in 2004 because i never understood why why if you're in boulder why do you need to get in a jet and fly all the way to florida or california or new york to go learn something i mean um you know like right now we're on video and now the pandemic the courses of skyrocket so I’m howard at dentaltown.com i i do um um my you know this but it's howard goldstein so it's hogo at dentaltown he does all the online ce and all the message board stuff but by the way a lot of times people will uh send me an email howard at downtown.com and say hey i got kicked out of dental town well i can say two things number one I’m howard at dentaltown.com i have nothing to do uh with the management of the website that's howard goldstein so he's ho go at dental town and i can also tell you another thing about um all social media because mark zuckerberg you know his dad's a dentist right and you know he's been on the show three times he called me the other day about um um something um but um the bottom line is uh in the morning on dental town there's no typos everything's proper everything's great by 10 o'clock at night the typos start going and you know they're drinking and by midnight you're an idiot you know and you know so all i can say is that you know you're not supposed to drink and drive uh don't drink and post that that's all I’m going to say you know i'll try that try to uh try something don't you either but it it's tough because you know my my four boys have turned into six grandchildren in fact my uh i just turned 58 august 29th and the day before my birthday august 28th i got my sixth grand uh congratulations and her name's evelyn and she's so adorable but you know it's going to be so tough for evelyn because uh i mean i mean um hopefully it'll get turned around but i just saw this study where they um nutritionists went into high schools and the high schools uh they didn't want to get rid of their coke machines because they got big contracts with coca-cola i mean how how disgusting is that that all this tax money going to schools but nestle pepsico coca-cola unilever dan owned general mills kellogg's mars associated british foods and whatever the hell mondelez is i mean um they they i mean those 10 companies make 90 of everything that you buy in the 60 000 skus at walmart and what you eat but they they couldn't take them out because obviously america has nothing to do with freedom of liberty it's money's the answer what's the question it's just a complete whorehouse and anyway the whorehouse school made a whorehouse contract but the nutritionist said well let's just do this let's move the coke machines on in a more inconvenient place and the bottled water up front just like when you walk in a grocery store they know you're only there for two most likely things you ran out of milk and bread so you walk in the front door milk is clear caddy corner in the back corner and then brad you have to walk clear across the store and then you come back and then they put narrower lanes on the sides where the margins are like canned goods and stuff like that and then where the margins are highest they put three cart lanes in the frozen area because they want you to cut through the big wide frozen because anything you grab in that frozen and throw in the basket is you know hopefully a you know a third margin and um so all they did is move the the coke and pepsi whorehouse machines that your whorehouse government signed a contract with uh and to kill your kid um and they move and they move the water closer and and kids drink 20 percent more water and 20 percent less soda just because the convenience and in america every single corner's got a 7-eleven selling unlimited coke unlimited i mean so i mean i got six grandkids and if i if i just go put gas in the car they run in there and they've got you know they've grabbed soda and candy and cookies and this and that and I’m just like wow man it's going to be and i try to tell him that you know like when i take him to the zoo the only thing grandpa talks about this zoo is that every other animal on earth only drinks one thing they only drink one thing they only drink water that look at that elephant you want to be big and strong look at that elephant it's 4 000 pounds it only drink water um so the water thing is is tough all the food coming out of the i'll never forget i don't want to get into any politics or anything but the president before the one we have now his wife was really into wanting to eat healthy and when she came to Washington she was going to cook a garden and go on this big deal about eating healthy oh my god big big foods had her silence in a week i mean she talked about it all during the campaign and about the first month in the white house and you can tell big money stepped in and you never heard another word about her you you you drive the message home that's exactly what i was touching up on it's the it's the companies behind it the stock markets and and the lobbyists that's what's killing us because we are basically in a system that's meant to generate money at the end of the day it's about what makes money growing food fast and getting it to consumers ready like that i don't understand i mean when i was growing up in iran we did not have drive through now the drive-thru is norm everywhere and i got to have a childhood i do remember we actually had to cook our food and it wasn't something you could expect like my kids thinking that oh let's just throw you know get into the car and go drive through and get food and I’m thinking when i was a kid the cook was the food has to be cooked two days ahead of time prepped two days ahead of time it was a three hour ordeal to be ready before you can consume it now you order it and the food is in your hand that speed process something will give and the nutrition is not a part of it i mean looking at years and years back all the other parts of the world and i think it's leaking into other cultures like i said and the more we seeing modern cultures coming around the first thing that changes is the food their habits and their behavior changes because they're associating themselves with this western diet is the it diet and it's nothing was killing us i mean this is jet fuel we are putting into our bodies it's killing the hardest you know who it's killing the fast food the export i i was just I’ve been in the middle east you know I’ve lectured in 50 countries kuwait united air emirates saudi the middle east um ran off the australian diet is probably one of the best diets for you i mean and from the texture to the nutrition to the level that is prepared it's probably one of the best and when I’m talking to patients about anti-inflammatory effects cbdi i touched upon we want to reduce inflammation in the body and if our food is not nourishing it but adding to that we're just going to get it out why are we i mean in america if you're poor you basically are eating drunk in other countries at least when i grow up when you're poor you just don't eat but you don't eat junk either because you have no access to traditional junk it's either organic food or it's no food but unfortunately we have access to food that is inexpensive heavily processed longer shelf lives and again i i don't think this is a small isolated problem uh one can argue how could you connect one thing to another i i can and i will because i think we're we're living in a state of inflammation we are living in a state of sympathetic activities and the breakdown of the whole system and i and i hate to call it a disorder i hate to call it the temper mandible joint problem i hate to call it just and sleep amnio issue because when we're looking at it when we're getting a complex problem and breaking it down into little problems that we can solve we lose the concept of the whole picture but once we step back and see how this whole dysfunctional system we're actually seeking leaky gut is connected to sleep apnea and sleep apnea is related to jaw growth i mean leaky gut is a huge huge subject right now and food sensitivity i mean you can't be sensitive to 40 different food you know how is it our bodies are just basically before processing food is just releasing it in our bloodstream and our bodies are just recognizing that as some foreign object you know list of food is getting smaller and smaller and smaller and anti-food or foreign food or furniture as i call it is becoming bigger you call it furniture it is furniture when i look at a cookie i look at a cookie and i call them people thinking how is that um you know what is the what is the brain part because as a trainer one of the things i do with people is getting them to have a better relationship with food and uh unfortunately food has become more of a stress factor management it's a it's more of a drug than an actual nourishment and for replenishing and nourishing our system it's fuel it's for replenishment it's not for palette pleasing it's not for a mental condition but it unfortunately becomes one you know you're saying it's furniture it's not if it is loaded with the chemicals that you can't even spell i might as well call it furniture it is decoration it is not food you should not put it into your body because i wanted to ask you about this um it seems like you know um the thing that's great about you know like say I’m almost 60 and you you get to see um most rodeos now for the second or third time and I’m I’m seeing um like when i was in high school um if you got caught um with a a 12 pack of coors beer and a fifth of jack daniels the police officer would give you a lecture but if you got caught with marijuana you were handcuffed and you were taken in jail and you're beat up you know you know it was crazy and now um that that's um kind of even um when i was young gay marriage i mean people would leave church to go to the park to beat up gay people i mean i mean i i saw that i mean i i i witnessed that and now gay people have the right to be married but the one thing that seems to be going the wrong way is a list of all these autoimmune disorders arthritis rheumatism diabetes ms celiac sprue lupus inflammatory and they're all expecting pharmaceuticals to come out with a new pill hey hey where's your pill where's your pill for this which comes with ten different side effects one of them is death and mental disorder what are we fixing by adding ten the profile of side effects and some of this meds i mean have you ever seen the side effects of adderall i mean you might as well just die like this kids are taking it like it's candy and yeah it might just give them a little bit of a relief for focusing but this time i actually i actually lived through this where my uh you know i had four boys and they were all born in 60 months so the the grammar school the middle school the high schools all on one street that went through it and the teachers begged for me to put half of them on on these pills and i'd say well well what what's wrong they go well he he just wants to bounce around and he's bound and I’m like okay he's a 10 year old boy and you want him to sit still in a chair for 10 hours a day what freaking planet are you from and and and then i would i would just look at it and i'd say okay so after 30 minutes of sitting in a chair he wants to go run outside and play and you want me to drug him up i mean i mean i i i thought it i i just would not do it a better word is sedate them so that they're good little boys and girls in a cookie cutting system that wants to keep all of them mediocre and lined up and do what they're told and you know what our kids are born with a talent they're born to live and they're not getting a chance they're not growing they're not getting nourishment they're not breathing they're not growing this is this is why I’m here in this show with you this is why i hung the drill and I’m doing what I’m doing because there's a lot more to the story than one can meet and all we're doing is scratching the surface and you know going against a system that is like i said designed for treating disease it takes a lot more for a group of doctors to say you know what I’m not going to fix anymore i want to stop the disease so we have a generation coming that doesn't need to be fixed what happens if we just stop taking insurance and stop working with medicare and what would just paid fix the new let's just find out what's wrong with the child that's just born and is not breastfeeding why is a child colleague kaliki and and not sleeping through the night let's fix that because that kid doesn't need another medication for acid reflux at six months old they need to learn to use their esophagus correctly and not use their mouth for breathing and drinking they need to breathe through the nose and why are they not doing it because the minute they're born we're sticking a pacifier in their mouth and mute them basically so i gotta i gotta tell you something I’m seeing in my backyard um you know so there's a lot of professional athletes down we got the um the Arizona cardinals we got a hockey team we got the sun's team and um i um their trainers are literally putting uh electrical tape oh i mean the wide electrical tape over their mouth because when they're out training if they breathe through their nose it gets a nitric oxide into the bloodstream which dilates the vessel and they breathe through the mouth and these kids are telling me that that they made it all the way to the Arizona cardinals and no one ever told them and now they're having to relearn breathing since they were a little kid absolutely and it's so impossible that the only thing they have to do is put that over there and they say it actually it scares you first but then you start relaxing because you actually breathing it's a technique taught by dr buteyko it's a technique practice for many many years that we can actually resolve asthma reduce symptoms of cure at some to some degree if we teach the kids to the nasal breath because you touched upon nitric acid the nitric acid is a natural gas that pulls from paranasal sinuses into the air that we breathe it sterilizes it kill virus really up on the coronavirus before it makes it to the lung and it's in these it's a dilator and it has amount of other uh benefits for the body and the only way you can take advantage of it is if you're nasal breathing pulling air from the paranasal sinuses and to the to the same effect that the mouth breathing the fact is like you said adjusting the volume of the air that you're getting because mouth breathing is way too much oxygen going in way too much co2 going out that's direct effect and the taping technique is actually a proven method that works i practice that with many of my patients that are in appliances we're trying to correct their habits teaching them at a young age to not use their mouth for breathing mouth is only for eating and when you're not eating you should not have your mouth open i know who has the perfect nose you know who has the most perfect nose dolphins the dolphins it moved back to their their blow hole their blowhole is is their nose and they got it completely out of their face it's not in their snout that is their nose right on their blowhole is their nose and every time i see a dolphin i just think um yeah that's it's probably better to separate the mouth and the nose like a dolphin but hey i can't believe we went uh well over an hour um if these people want to hear more how do they get in contact with you do they go to peakviewdentistry.com one of the best I’m very active howard on my social media instagram and facebook at peak for dentistry almost every day i make it my mission to go live and talk to people and and give them information about everything i talked about about the new treatments we do uh with vivos training people treating people holistically and i love to hear more about other people that are interested about subject because a lot of things that make sense to me and it's norm i get the questions that wow i had no idea i love engaging and that's the best ways through my facebook i love connecting and um yeah our website at peak for dentistry.com and they responded with my emails as well so that would be another good way to contact so facebook.com forward slash peak view dentistry or peakviewdentistry.com or instagram peak view dentistry great all right and there she is my gosh you're so adorable you have the second prettiest nose behind a dolphin first it's a dolphin and then it's you seriously bahar i'll take a compliment in any packaging that it comes in thank you so much for inviting me new show this was amazing um and let me unload my passion i really enjoyed it and um I’m howard at dentaltown.com email hogohogo dentaltown.com in fact i'll shoot you both i'll i'll shoot you and him an email right now um and um and um do those courses and and i'll tell you another reason um uh i want to do that is um you know you know what i don't like about my own um podcast and media company going back about 10 years ago when i was little when i was in school the senior class had one girl and her name her nickname was man woman because you couldn't really tell if it was a man or a woman it was like an an amorphous thing in my school my class was the first class that started to have some it was like 20 out of 120 but now those classes are half women and i tell i tell dental town every month i said i I’m as the owner of dental town magazine i can't put out an issue with 10 articles and five of them are old white fat bold men you know they're half the class or women and i love getting women role models on like you because I’m in these schools they're they're more than half girls they're like 55 percent women and i know those 20 year old girls want to listen to you not they're not some male grandpa like me so thanks for being a role model uh for the young women who i mean look at all the uh pierre fishard is he a boy or a girl g.v black boy or girl i mean uh the hippocrates uh father you know what i had great mentors for me to get here like i said i have learned from the best of the best in the industry and at some point you'd be thinking that you know what i want to leave my footprint and make my protocol in this world and i want to get people to hear my message the way i want to convey it um so I’ve recently been named in the a woman in medicine I’ve been awarded the top doctor award and i spoke about the subject and and i wrote it down and i thought maybe maybe being a little outspoken could sometimes backfire because you know a lot of things that i say have a bit of a political hint to it but you know at the end of the day i took an oath to be a doctor and my oath is to do what's best for my patients do no harm and i know when you know what you know you can't unknow it and once you once your brain knows what you know your eyes cannot stop seeing it that's the reality seriously thanks for coming on the show thanks for being a role model and thanks for what i love about you the most is that you didn't fall for big pharma big insurance and big food and gosh darn here's what I’m worried about the most you know my four boys are raised they've flown the nest um I’m so glad i didn't kill any of them because they made six grandkids and that's all i tell parents to do you know even though you should kill him right now don't because he'll wake up why at the end of the day right so they'll make you a replacement that's even better but here's you know if if all you know if all the dental offices are bought by wall street and then uh like I’m right now um you know cigna or what is it um cvs uh as bought aetna right so now aetna and cvs owns aetna so cvs owns the doctors that write the prescriptions that cvs fills and so if all the dental offices are bought by wall street and then delta comes along and buys them then where does my granddaughter go when she needs a dentist yeah you know and i don't want my granddaughter going to a dental office owned by aetna and delta and wall street saying oh well you she might have three crown opportunities when she walks in make sure to give her the crown pitch because she's got these little crap it's like no i want my children to be able to go to the dentist and the dentist ain't the pharmacy it ain't wall street and it ain't the insurance company it's someone just like you this is just like you're just speaking my mind and for me this is i i was a part of that corporate america dentistry and i established a private practice with that mission alone i don't want to be bound to what insurance tells me to do i want to be a doctor unfortunately the system is not meant for younger doctor to have that establishment and authority and moving that way so we are a last man standing to some degree i see that private practices are really trying to stand up and do what is in the best interest of the patients as you mentioned i don't care what your insurance pays and by the way it's not an insurance it's a gift card with an expiration and limitations of what you can buy what where so whole another story but as you mentioned it we need to we need to survive this i mean i want to be that dental office that comes at the end of the day i don't take any medical dental insurance i do not care what they pay for but what i could tell you I’m really going to stand up for is what is in your best interest how it can help you the least way as dr kois put it best dentistry is no dentistry bible yeah he's never dreaming did you know that he's greek he fixes everything with windex and i did not know that about him thank you i learned tony about dr kroy's i love that about that greek fabric but the bottom line the bottom line is if you want to work for the insurance company go work for them you want to work for wall street go work for them you want to work for the pharmacy go work for them but if you're going to be a dentist you know be a dentist to your patient and uh my god and on behalf of presents right on behalf of my uh father who died this day today 21 years ago um he would you know how he would refer to uh you and me you know how when whenever you have those independent thoughts you know what he'd always say he'd always smile and go that's going to be a hard dog to keep on the porch so you are a hard dog run through you're you're a hard dog to keep on the parts dr bahar is molly dds boulder Colorado thank you so much for coming on the show thank you thank you howard have a great day you too  


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